Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[The Ugly One]

However I suspect conquering a place is rather difficult. Perhaps Europeans are ruled over so terribly that a foreign invader would actually have popular support. It happened to Rome in the very end.

If you convince the Europeans that being ruled by you will confirm that they are far more sophisticated and enlightened than Americans, they will spread their cheeks. Unfortunately, Europeans currently regard Russians as backwater barbarians, not the enlightened vanguard of progressivism. The Russian military doesn't even have transgender officers!

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

I could imagine Russia possessing a sphere of influence within Europe.

However I suspect conquering a place is rather difficult. Perhaps Europeans are ruled over so terribly that a foreign invader would actually have popular support. It happened to Rome in the very end.

But I don't think this time period is really a time Russia goes on massive conquests and military adventures. I suspect this is a time Russia rebuilds itself while being strong enough to maintain its interests near to it.

There are interesting development in regards to Russian Demographics and I'd say Russia is one of the places that is the closest to solving the urbanization problem which all countries face.

Serious question: Why would Russia even want Germany (or any EU country)? Bankrupt, little natural resources, collapsed industry, millions of imported immigrants already causing societal issues, etc, etc, etc. Really, what strategic value is there by conquering any of it? Ports maybe? I'd really like to know. It seems to me it's in Russia's best interest to just let them all collapse on their own to further discredit the entire Western system while keeping their own hands clean.

 

[Falcos_Commisar]

There's been an incident of a T-90 fighting a Bradley or 2 within rock-tossing distance.
Ignore the sensationalistic title of the video.

The crew survived, the tank armor did it's job.

After 2014, there was a degree of material aid from outside, but the fighting of the Donbas war tended to lower standards within the army down to irregular militia level. Training ceased, standards dropped and most of the officers produced by Ukraine in the last ten years could only function at small unit level with little to no coordination. Its still today an army of small detachments.
As that sort of army, they can do ok on the defensive. Then can put small units into trench positions - tell him to stay there - and they will generally give an OK account of themselves.
But try to put them on the offensive and they are completely lost. They send wave after wave of men and equipment at fixed positions without any particular strategy or coordination. See Robotyne. See Krinky.

Well the loss of Soledar due to inter-unit infighting says otherwise.

@Male Idiot
I think you're underselling the French, and the Bongs still have some formations that are actually worth a damn.

The British Military seemingly shrinks every decade and just recently the Royal Navy is seriously considering scraping or mothballing two frigates because they can't man them..... The UK has NEVER had a higher population and seemingly can't man a Navy with 19 Frontline warships....the British SF are excellent as are the Royal Marines and most of the British army

It's problem, just like the French is that they have NO MASS. Combined, the UK and France have ~350 tanks.

British IFVs are ancient dinosaurs with guns that fire from manually reloaded 3 found clips..... Unstablized guns at that.

SPHs are rare in the UK and France.

Very few SPAA assets, low numbers of reserves troops, etc.

Elite formations and tanks are exactly what didn't matter shit in this conflict and what Nato has been doing for the last 30 years.

Drones fucked them raw. New account, haven't followed the thread, makes sense.

Manpower is good, airpower is good, but AA, Artillery and drones now rule the battlefield.

It may change in another decade or two, but for this war that's it, the age of the tank spearhead and super elite commandos winning wars is over for now.

Yep, SPAA and jamming/EW has become extremely important, as have tanks that can take hits and keep going (see the T-90M tanking dozens if not hundreds of 25mm rounds at almost point-blank range and keeping the crew safe)

The other thing is NUMBERS (MASS) counts for a lot. 100 supersoldiers is great but what happens when 80% of them are KIA or ineffective after an operation? How about 500 good or "good enough" troops?

Also, ammunition stockpiles become extremely important as does your ability to get / make.mkre ammunition.

 

[IKOL]

Serious question: Why would Russia even want Germany (or any EU country)? Bankrupt, little natural resources, collapsed industry, millions of imported immigrants already causing societal issues, etc, etc, etc. Really, what strategic value is there by conquering any of it? Ports maybe? I'd really like to know. It seems to me it's in Russia's best interest to just let them all collapse on their own to further discredit the entire Western system while keeping their own hands clean.

none.

 

[Betonhaus]

I could imagine Russia possessing a sphere of influence within Europe.

However I suspect conquering a place is rather difficult. Perhaps Europeans are ruled over so terribly that a foreign invader would actually have popular support. It happened to Rome in the very end.

But I don't think this time period is really a time Russia goes on massive conquests and military adventures. I suspect this is a time Russia rebuilds itself while being strong enough to maintain its interests near to it.

There are interesting development in regards to Russian Demographics and I'd say Russia is one of the places that is the closest to solving the urbanization problem which all countries face.

Imagine if Russia fired off a big social media campaign that goes into detail about how people's lives would be better under Russian rule. They could play into liberal fears like how they will incarcerate the homosexuals and force women to be stay-at-home wives and they very well might have general populations begging for them to invade.

Serious question: Why would Russia even want Germany (or any EU country)? Bankrupt, little natural resources, collapsed industry, millions of imported immigrants already causing societal issues, etc, etc, etc. Really, what strategic value is there by conquering any of it? Ports maybe? I'd really like to know. It seems to me it's in Russia's best interest to just let them all collapse on their own to further discredit the entire Western system while keeping their own hands clean.

Ultimately nothing that's worth the effort. It's pure European hubris to think that their nation is so great that Russia would be chomping at the bit to take it, but there really is nothing worth invading. I made a list of reasons why countries normally get invaded and why they aren't applicable, and that list did not get disputed once.

 

[Fried-Rice12]

Imagine if Russia fired off a big social media campaign that goes into detail about how people's lives would be better under Russian rule. They could play into liberal fears like how they will incarcerate the homosexuals and force women to be stay-at-home wives and they very well might have general populations begging for them to invade.

Unfortunately, current Russian leadership does not understand how to do that.
Because if they did, they would have already done that.
Something about their old Soviet brains just can't comprehend how a successful propaganda campaign is supposed to work.

 

[geckogoy]

There is actually quite a bit of industry in germany and such-on, but its doubtful how much of it would survive an invasion if ukraine is anything to go off of. You'd also need to stop all the experts from escaping (who are overwhelmingly gay assholes).

 

[The Ugly One]

Imagine if Russia fired off a big social media campaign that goes into detail about how people's lives would be better under Russian rule. They could play into liberal fears like how they will incarcerate the homosexuals and force women to be stay-at-home wives and they very well might have general populations begging for them to invade.


Ultimately nothing that's worth the effort. It's pure European hubris to think that their nation is so great that Russia would be chomping at the bit to take it, but there really is nothing worth invading. I made a list of reasons why countries normally get invaded and why they aren't applicable, and that list did not get disputed once.

Broke: Having such a good military nobody would dare invade.
Woke: Having such a shitty country nobody would want to invade.

 

[01169]

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This is funny. Not that the motion had any real chance but Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann (that nasty warhawk bitch) who is a massive proponent of the NATO war on Russia voted NO as well. As did basically the whole government (SPD, Greens, FDP). It's common in Germany to vote along party lines and it's even forced in most coalitions. Now everyone who yelled for all the shit being sent to Ukraine pussied out because they could't risk a falling out when the current administration is so close to having to resign.

 

[Sneed's Feed And Seed]

The DDR were the based ones

DDR is never based

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Unfortunately, current Russian leadership does not understand how to do that.
Because if they did, they would have already done that.
Something about their old Soviet brains just can't comprehend how a successful propaganda campaign is supposed to work.

Do they need to?

Something about hohols being hohols etc

 

[Vesperus]

There's some nice cheeses, but I don't think even Null would count that as a good reason to go to war.

 

[Napoleon III]

Serious question: Why would Russia even want Germany (or any EU country)? Bankrupt, little natural resources, collapsed industry, millions of imported immigrants already causing societal issues, etc, etc, etc. Really, what strategic value is there by conquering any of it? Ports maybe? I'd really like to know. It seems to me it's in Russia's best interest to just let them all collapse on their own to further discredit the entire Western system while keeping their own hands clean.

This is true the juice is not worth the squeeze especially since the squeeze would be very expensive. There is nothing valuable for Russia to conquer in Europe outside of the Russian Diaspora.

Imagine if Russia fired off a big social media campaign that goes into detail about how people's lives would be better under Russian rule. They could play into liberal fears like how they will incarcerate the homosexuals and force women to be stay-at-home wives and they very well might have general populations begging for them to invade.

I know this is a joke. But the hypothetical way to do something like this is to just collect way less taxes than the other guy. Europe has these massive bureaucratic states that are extremely expensive and parasitic in all kinds of awful ways outside of just direct taxes too, if someone came along who ended that even if they were a foreigner I'd expect a lot of people to either not care about foreign subjection or be mildly supportive. I used the example of Rome because this is basically what happened to a lot of the provinces.

Although this is a pointless hypothetical with no actual probability of actually happening and it would be stupid if it did and there isn't really a point of discussing except because it is kind of fun.

There is actually quite a bit of industry in germany and such-on, but its doubtful how much of it would survive an invasion if ukraine is anything to go off of. You'd also need to stop all the experts from escaping (who are overwhelmingly gay assholes).

I'll say Russia has used Germans in the past because they were good at building things and running businesses. Germans are so good at that kind of stuff that having them around even in small numbers is quite beneficial. Germany lost its industry 3 times and managed to rebuild it successfully 3 times as well. This is also part of the reason I think the USSR expelling the Ostdeutsch was a bad long term idea. Part of the reason the Russian Empire was able to hold onto the Baltics was because there were so many Germans. It also made the Baltics basically entirely worthless.

Even nowadays Russia has a lot of its sort of merchants being foreigners. There are a lot of Jews and Armenians running large businesses there because the Russian people have not traditionally taken to being merchants. Yes I know about Novgorod and Pskov, but that was a very long time ago.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Media in France acknowledges presence of French mercenaries in Ukraine


Sources from France’s TF1 TV channel said that there are 60-70 people with French citizenship in Ukraine, and another 200-300 with dual citizenship. At the same time, journalists could not confirm information on the death toll after the Russian Armed Forces struck the location of foreign mercenaries in Kharkov.

Paris will not officially comment on the death of its citizens in Ukraine, as mercenary activities are prohibited in France, political and strategic analyst Xavier Moreau told the media outlet.

Ukraine’s Growing Addiction to Foreign Mercenaries

Sputnik correspondent Russell Bentley explains that the Russian missile strike against French mercenaries in Kharkov was a painful blow for the Ukrainian military, which is increasingly dependent on hired-guns from abroad.

“The European mercenaries tend to be highly trained specialists who work on specific weapons systems too complex for the average Ukrainian conscripts and Nazi footsoldiers to operate efficiently.

This strike did not just eliminate a couple of platoons of enemy soldiers, it put some of the most lethal and long-range weapons in the Ukrainian arsenal out of service until more specialists are found to replace the fried mercs that were eliminated.

There has been a major influx of high quality mercenaries with special skill sets in the last few months. The reason for this increase in foreign professional soldiers was to replace the Ukrainian special forces who were almost completely wiped out in the Ukrainian failed "summer offensive", as well as to try to make a desperate (but futile) attempt to forestall the inevitable Russian offensive.”

“A large number of foreign mercenaries” are stationed in Kharkov in eastern Ukraine, Christelle Neant, a French journalist in the Donbass, told Sputnik.

Kiev and Western countries “know perfectly well that Ukraine still cannot win,” she said.

These foreign mercenaries will be housed in "barracks built by the Soviet Union", these places are "obviously known to the Russians there too, and I think this will happen again", explains Laurent Brayard, a French war correspondent in the Donbass adding that “we also had many examples of Russian attacks on Ukrainian military headquarters, and Russian intelligence is extremely effective.”

Some 60 mercenaries, mostly French, were killed in a Russian air strike on Tuesday. The French Ambassador was summoned to the Russian Foreign Ministry after the destruction of the location of foreign mercenaries in Kharkov, among whom were French, Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Zakharova told Sputnik.

source private chat

Seems those French "formations" aren't really worth much against Russia. Oh well. Better luck next war.

 

[Strix454]

Seems those French "formations" aren't really worth much against Russia. Oh well. Better luck next war.

France has already taken several big "L"s in its increasing former African Sand Empire courtesy of Russia since the Ukraine conflict started. As with Germany, French participation against Russia in Ukraine has led to nothing but a series of disasters.

 

[Unsane]

Ukraine pales into insignificance with each passing day and nothing more than a sideshow. But the picture is developing.

 

[Corn Syrup Connoisseur]

France has already taken several big "L"s in its increasing former African Sand Empire courtesy of Russia since the Ukraine conflict started.

The collapse of the French grasp on Africa started some years before the Ukraine Russian conflict. French forces for some (most likely political) reason stopped actively engaging Jihadist forces in many former French colonies that relied on their support. Which forced local governments to invite groups such as Wagner to handle the situation since the local forces in typical African fashion are incapable.

There was an interesting Vice documentary (back when they actually did some on the ground reporting) showing both the ineptitude of the local African forces at fighting against the Jihadis and the efficiency of the French forces, but after Vice scrubbed Internet from all the 'problematic' content they produced, mostly meme clips are left. You might be able to find the first half of this documentary, but the second half with the Frenchies is presumed lost.

 

[Iron Jaguar]

Sweden because they've been asking for it for a long time.

And because Sweden desperately needs it.

 

[Stalphos Johnson]

There are interesting development in regards to Russian Demographics and I'd say Russia is one of the places that is the closest to solving the urbanization problem which all countries face.

I know it's a little off-topic but could you elaborate on that? I know Russia and the rest of the developed world is facing a major demographic crisis, so I'm curious how they've been facing it.

 

[Chuck McGill]

If you convince the Europeans that being ruled by you will confirm that they are far more sophisticated and enlightened than Americans, they will spread their cheeks. Unfortunately, Europeans currently regard Russians as backwater barbarians, not the enlightened vanguard of progressivism. The Russian military doesn't even have transgender officers!

How many Europeans does it take to change a light bulb?

Three. One to change the lightbulb, one to seethe about how Americans are too dumb to change lightbulbs and another to make a tired joke about Wal-Mart and school shootings.