Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

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Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?


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Jalso, Jesus paid for the sins of all people since the time of original sin, everyone in the Old Testament was destined to carry this weight and would be condemned to compensate, some were saved but the majority remained in Hell, what Jesus did in the three days was to take all the souls in hell and returned to Heaven since the sins have been paid off, and after Christ what condemns you to hell are your own actions in life.

so Noah, Samson, David, etc were in hell until Christ's sacrifice, it is said in their stories of the promise of the Messiah that whoever follows the will of God will inherit the Kingdom of God but not immediately.
To be more clear on this, prior to Jesus's death on the cross, in Christian theology, there used to be a portion of hell, aka Hades, aka Sheol, called Abraham's Bosom, which is where all the Old Testament saints, such as Adam, David, the Prophets, Samuel, etc. went, along with any righteous Jews who died prior to Christ's sacrifice. They remained there till Christ's death on the cross. Sinners and those who committed evil still went to Sheol, where they burned in fire and torment. This is illustrated in Christ's parable of Lazarus and the rich man, where the rich man went to Sheol to suffer, while Lazarus, the poor beggar, went to Abraham's bosom. Though both could see and even talk to each other, they could not interact, as there was a bottomless chasm between them.

After Christ died, he went down into hell and preached to those in Abraham's bosom, to let them know that the promised messiah had come. Then Abraham's bosom was taken up into Heaven with Christ, and the Old Testament saints finally joined God in Paradise (this is what Jesus meant when he told the thief on the cross that "today, you will be with me in Paradise"), though, prior to going to Heaven, many of them were bodily resurrected as their graves were opened and walked around amongst the living, which was witnessed by many people, according to the New Testament. The Bible says that, after this was done and Jesus himself resurrected and went to Earth (eventually returning to Heaven), Hell "enlarged itself" for all the sinners who would come there afterward. Now, the saved go straight to Heaven, while the unsaved go straight to Hell, and there is no longer any "holding area" for those who are saved in Hell.



Back to HH itself, the problems that others in this thread have noted in regards to the issues on how one even gets into Heaven in HH is due to the fact that Viv has taken certain aspects of Christian theology for her story, but has not embraced the entirety of the theology wholeheartedly. How does one get to Heaven in Christianity? By declaring with your mouth and believing in your heart that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior. As Jesus said in John 3:16, "I am the way, the truth and the light, no man can come unto the Father except by me". All those who confess with their mouth and believe in their heart in Jesus's death and resurrection and that he is their Lord and Savior is saved. But in Hazbin Hotel, Jesus Christ functionally doesn't exist. He hasn't been mentioned, nor alluded to. Its a glaring omission, maybe even a bigger omission than the lack of the mention of God the Father. If Jesus was acknowledged, it would solve the biggest issue of how people get to Heaven in the first place, and offer the clearest example of why the sinners are in hell, even those who thought they were "good people". Christian theology teaches that being a good man won't get you to heaven, only faith in Jesus Christ will. My grandfather always says that at one time he was "a good man on his way to hell". All those born on Earth are born sinners. Reprobates in other words. The Bible says that we are all "born in sin, and shaped out in iniquity". We are born on our way to hell. Very young children, toddlers and babies are afforded mercy due to being too young to make conscious choices regarding sinning, understand sin, and just overall being innocent, but any old enough to understand sin and tell right from wrong, good from evil are given no protection. If you die without Christ, you go to hell, not because of what you do, but because of who you are, a born sinner. God is perfect and demands perfection to get into heaven, but none of us are perfect. Christ died as the propitiation for sin, because mankind could never be "good enough" to get to heaven on his own.

The issue for HH is that Viv ignores the most important aspect of Christian theology and has replaced it with...nothing, leaving everyone to wonder why anyone goes to heaven or hell in the first place, and how the "sinners" might be redeemed. It also overlooks the fact that the sinners are irredeemable in Christian theology not because they are "destined" (though predestination is a belief in the Calvinist/Reformed strand of Christianity, I doubt that is what Viv is going for here) but because they are already in hell. Their chance to choose Christ was in life, and that has long past. Now, they are turned over to eternal punishment. The only way someone who goes to hell gets a second chance is if they are revived to life on Earth, and there are those who have claimed to have momentarily died and been to hell, and this led to their conversion to Christ. The sinners are doomed because they already rejected Christ on Earth, so its too late to for them now. The lack of Christ in HH is its greatest and most glaring weakness because the rest of the theology doesn't work without him.
 
Why are some randos on a gossip forum coming up with better ideas in random off the cuff comments than multiple writers working for the largest corporation on the planet with the benefit of having 4 years to refine their plots?
I mean monkeys and Shakespeare is always the response. But I suspect it's because even good writers refuse to change from certain points when they get stuck into them. Angels = bad looks to be this show's.
 
I also want to point out how they made Cherri Bomb terrible
In the pilot she was portrayed as a great friend of Angel and they have fun together,
in Addict music video it made their bond more intimate and personal with even parallels between them and Cherri willing to pick a fight with Overlords over Angel

but in the show itself, it's as if they were just party friends, Angel has been there for 5 months and it seems like she never had any interest in visiting, taking into account Angel's reaction and the fact that no one knows who she is, and in the episode she is portrayed as a toxic bitch who is pushing Angel to relapse and has no empathy for him, hell Valentino punches him in the face and Cherri has no reaction and even leaves Angel to fuck some guy because he is lame now.
she only appeared because Angel sent depressing messages, as if that fact wouldn't be common in the 5 months that he still works at Valentino (seriously, this timeskip are the worst narrative decision in this shit)

Cherri was destroyed, dismissed as a negative influence on Angel's life
 
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God it never occured to me, but I truly hate St. Peter's design. WHERE IS HIS NOSE???
Screenshot_20240127_052316_YouTube.jpg
Unironically one of the more egregious charater designs I've seen from Viv, like come on.
 
So, Angel Dust's sister, Molly, can be seen in heaven in one of the episodes, and her design along with a bunch of others' just raises so many questions.
Do you still turn into a furry/monster/thing even when you go to heaven in this universe? I thought the reason there were so many anthros in hell was because that's where furfags deserve to go they were turned into that as punishment, and the reason that some of the cherubs in HB were anthros too is because they were never human to begin with, and were just supposed to be uwu cutesy things in general.

Now? I have no idea what the fuck is going on.
I've said this before but in this show, Hell is a DeviantArt Holloween town and now Heaven is just a recolor. Heaven also has horned native inhabitants who swear a lot and the people not native to heaven are furry monsters like hell. Viv's autistic reluctance to make new character designs is detrimental to the show.
 
That Lucifer episode was a massive trainwreck, it's was one of the more entertaining ones so far at least.

Lucifer goes from distant and uncaring, to loving and desperate to connect, to over any of his issues by the end of the episode. There is the implication he is distant from Charlie due to Lilith/Eve, but how old is Charlie? She's gotta be centuries old at this point, if not more. If she is only in her 20s, I have even more questions about the lore of this world.

And Alastor? Nothing he does in this episode makes sense unless it's all ulterior motives. All of of his interactions and motives with Charlie have never been shown on screen or even implied off screen. We know why he is beefing with Lucifer due to the leaks, but nothing in the show set this up. Why is Charlie eating his words up? This does nothing but actually feed the shippers.

Mimzy might make sense if it was a ploy by Gary Stu to show off to the man he is 100% family cucking, but I just can't believe Alastor actually has any level of planning when his immediate response to Lucifer is to just curse him out for no reason at all.

But thank you Vivzie, for confirming that Vaggie is named after pussy. Truly made this show worth the watch.
 
Episode 5 and 6's pacing reminded me of the latter half of every found footage styled film. The only difference being the former half, which even the worst ones can manage enough time for the audience to absorb. A lot of pre-1960's films also had this issue, the last third or so would be as rushed as the entirety of Hazbin more or less.
 
I'm legit amazed Knowles did his research and acknowledged that hazbin is an ADULT cartoon. As in they know its not real and won't see the devil or demons as heroes. If walsh gives his two cents on the show it wouldn't surprise me if he thinks it's a kids show at first...or claims kids will watch it anyways cause it was still designed to target them or some bs like that.
They don't care. They're grifters, their goal is to make money by selling outrage to people.
 
Viv seems to have some obsession with the idea that if a character is a not a famous special over powered super villain, which now amounts to pretty much all the cast, then they aren't important. I miss assuming Husk was just some random ass drunk but now he's been revealed also being just another famous powerful resident.

Angel might be the only person in the hotel who's actually normal. Of the residents there are now:
The princess of Hell
Overlord
Former overlord
Fallen angel (not Dust)

home-alone-2-lost-in-new-york-header.jpg

Show needs like a more grounded character thats just there, I'm thinking someone that gives Tim Curry in Home Alone 2 vibes. Some kind of guy who was criminal on earth before dying and is punished by being the hotel's concierge. You know, someone who can be slapsticked around, has to take all the shit he gets with a smile but then takes out his frustration on his coworkers behind the scenes, only sticking around cuz he thinks that doing this kind of job might be his ticket out of Hell. Not an Overlord, not a pornstar, just a dude.
 
To be more clear on this, prior to Jesus's death on the cross, in Christian theology, there used to be a portion of hell, aka Hades, aka Sheol, called Abraham's Bosom, which is where all the Old Testament saints, such as Adam, David, the Prophets, Samuel, etc. went, along with any righteous Jews who died prior to Christ's sacrifice. They remained there till Christ's death on the cross. Sinners and those who committed evil still went to Sheol, where they burned in fire and torment. This is illustrated in Christ's parable of Lazarus and the rich man, where the rich man went to Sheol to suffer, while Lazarus, the poor beggar, went to Abraham's bosom. Though both could see and even talk to each other, they could not interact, as there was a bottomless chasm between them.

After Christ died, he went down into hell and preached to those in Abraham's bosom, to let them know that the promised messiah had come. Then Abraham's bosom was taken up into Heaven with Christ, and the Old Testament saints finally joined God in Paradise (this is what Jesus meant when he told the thief on the cross that "today, you will be with me in Paradise"), though, prior to going to Heaven, many of them were bodily resurrected as their graves were opened and walked around amongst the living, which was witnessed by many people, according to the New Testament. The Bible says that, after this was done and Jesus himself resurrected and went to Earth (eventually returning to Heaven), Hell "enlarged itself" for all the sinners who would come there afterward. Now, the saved go straight to Heaven, while the unsaved go straight to Hell, and there is no longer any "holding area" for those who are saved in Hell.
This makes it even more of a missed opportunity that God/Jesus seem to be nonexistent, since having this event happen would give a reason for Charlie to have her plan for redemption of Sinners, since if the rules of the afterlife changed before, what’s to say they can’t change again? Maybe have Charlie witness this event as a young girl and have that be her motivation.
View attachment 5670779
She seems to be a master at that. (I can’t believe Verbalase wants to fuck… this.)
I disagree and think that Charlie has one of the best designs in the show, although I like her pilot design better since the more muted colors sets her apart from the bright coloration of the other demons. Also, it’s the pilot design that Verbalase wants to fuck.
 
God it never occured to me, but I truly hate St. Peter's design. WHERE IS HIS NOSE???
View attachment 5670630
Unironically one of the more egregious charater designs I've seen from Viv, like come on.
I would love to give Viv the benefit of a doubt and say him being extremely uncanny is the point of his design, but I'm not.
And Alastor? Nothing he does in this episode makes sense unless it's all ulterior motives. All of of his interactions and motives with Charlie have never been shown on screen or even implied off screen. We know why he is beefing with Lucifer due to the leaks, but nothing in the show set this up. Why is Charlie eating his words up? This does nothing but actually feed the shippers.
This is why this stuff should have been season 2 material, or at least the Heaven stuff to allow season 1 to focus exclusively on low stakes personal stuff to allow the focus be on character development, seriously the only time I think Al and Charlie have spoken before this was way back in episode 1, and that was a brief conversation and not this one on one talk.
But thank you Vivzie, for confirming that Vaggie is named after pussy. Truly made this show worth the watch.
It's baffling that Vaggie would keep the name that Adam gave her as well, Adam helped cut out her eye and wings, then left her for dead. Did she seriously not have a name before she met Adam?
 
God it never occured to me, but I truly hate St. Peter's design. WHERE IS HIS NOSE???
View attachment 5670630
Unironically one of the more egregious charater designs I've seen from Viv, like come on.
She could've at least given him a beard like he has in pretty much every other artistic interpretation of him.

Now that I'm thinking about it why does she seem so adverse towards drawing men with full beards? I've never seen an OC of hers that has one.
 
God it never occured to me, but I truly hate St. Peter's design. WHERE IS HIS NOSE???
View attachment 5670630
Unironically one of the more egregious charater designs I've seen from Viv, like come on.
Didn't Viv steal her most popular character designs from other artists, or am I crazy? It's been a while.

Either way, you can really feel a lack of cohesion in character design principals, which I'm extremely disappointed by considering how (usually) coherent the characters of Helluva Boss appear to be. All the characters in HH, aside from the main cast, look like they belong in completely different shows.

Peter has the classic suit and bowtie look, but has no padding in his shoulders and his bowtie looks like a blob. Those things and his featureless face make him so fucking flat it's appalling to see from such a stylish show.

She could've at least given him a beard like he has in pretty much every other artistic interpretation of him.

Now that I'm thinking about it why does she seem so adverse towards drawing men with full beards? I've never seen an OC of hers that has one.
She's into softboi uwu sexual abuse yaoi, not bara yaoi.
 
Second, he is still engaging in sin due to the fact he is drinking tons of alcohol and still participates in gratuitous sex.
Is drinking alcohol actually considered a sin within Christianity, though? It's part of the sacrament of the eucharist, after all.
 
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