Warhammer 40k

Neodymium-60 said:
Weren't his strategies so bloody that whatever engagement he was in his legion would suffer catastrophic casualties
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He tended to use grinding attrition to solve every problem but shared a high degree of Guilliman's 'tism in being a skilled administrator and logistician so he was always able to keep the Legion's numbers high, only behind the Sons of Horus among traitor legions at the time of the Heresy. He was even able to do so despite subjecting them to the punishment of decimation (i.e. 1 out of 10 chosen by lottery and beaten to death by the other 9) for failing to meet his expectations. Anyway enjoy this picture of Benturabo and his foster sister Abbiphone, who seems to have undergone an unfortunate reduction surgery:
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Snekposter said:
To be fair, its not like it would have ended any other way. Half of Horus' job in the Great Crusade before his treason was tard wrangling his brothers, and considering he only got the maladapted ones on his side it becoming a full time job is the expected outcome. Shit, the whole reason the Imperium had any time at all to prepare is because Horus and the bulk of his forces were fucking around on Istvaan III after Angron decided to combat drop on the last few survivors because his ego wouldn't let him admit Angron was fucking things up for him.
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I never got over in Horus Rising, how the man talked like the guy from Wolf of Wall Street, he even does the “Let me introduce my good friend” speech that DiCaprio does in the movie with Steve Madden.
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Honestly it’s an apt comparison, he even hates tax collectors.
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p1138 said:
The reality is, they couldn't make Horus and pals hyper competent, otherwise it wouldn't make sense for them to have lost the whole heresy thing. But because GW insisted on writing the HH series and siege of terra filling in details, you end up with Horus being a tard wrangler who ultimately fails and makes the whole thing look dumb from their perspective at the end.
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They do bring up a good point in that it is nearly impossible to manage the forces of Chaos. They are too petty, too quick to break off and pursue their own agendas.

Horus thought that he was in control of the Traitors and could delegate forces to achieve objectives throughout the galaxy.

It’s why Abaddon has been more successful as the Warmaster. All he does is point at a target for the multitude of warbands to take. He knows that all the Chaos Marines care for is personal glory and he appeals to those desires.
 
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Imperial Citizen said:
It’s why Abaddon has been more successful as the Warmaster. All he does is point at a target for the multitude of warbands to take. He knows that all the Chaos Marines care for is personal glory and he appeals to those desires.
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This model seems very effective for the Night Lords. They've become full-fledged dirty-ass pirates and are still a huge menace.
 
Snekposter said:
He hated them not because they were tax collectors but because his Legions would be forced to deal with the inevitable rebellions as planets got tired of the Space IRS taking their shit.
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Wasn't the imperial tithe one of the few things that Big E set up in 30k that managed to stick around for 10,000 years? Sure it did cause the baddab war but that was a space marine chapter trying to make a discount Ultramar, plus if Magnius hadn't ruined everything, Terra and or the administratum might of had control over the webway, which might of been as effective as sending in the legions to squash a few rebellions since pay rebts or have fun using old geller fields to travel again could be a pretty convincing argument, being able send an entire legion to overrun a planet as fast as the necrons do when some idiot accidently opens up one of their portals more so.
 
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Snekposter said:
He hated them not because they were tax collectors but because his Legions would be forced to deal with the inevitable rebellions as planets got tired of the Space IRS taking their shit.
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He hated them cause he hated the idea of humans commanding Astartes and being the ones to inherit the Imperium.

Sure, he liked humans (pre-Davin) and had friends who were human (Temba, his entourage, that human bodyguard who impressed him) but he liked them in their place, beneath his sons, brothers and father.

Horus was essentially a chad who when nobody was looking enlightened himself on /pol/ and that was before Davin…….
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Cocky Horus is best Horus, like when he crashed a lodge meeting to introduce their “new friends” and made them accept a human among their ranks, all while being the smuggest motherfucker. It’s no wonder Angron hated the man, he took after dad the most.
 
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I've been reading the Horus Heresy recently as my first entrance into 40k stuff outside of the general internet osmosis things you pick up randomly. One of those things you can't avoid is obviously Horus betraying the Emperor and while I knew it did happen, I didn't know why or how and figured it would probably be some big tragic thing. So, I am near the beginning of Galaxy in Flames, having read the previous two and now finding out how Horus turned... is he just stupid? It's really making the Primarchs seem like a joke if the chosen favorite is like "Hey Erebus, I know you were lying to me and showing illusions and set up the circumstances that got me in this near death state but I'm just gonna do what you wanted me to anyway, lul". I understand Horus is very prideful, but I would think it would take way more than that stupid display to make him completely turn him from his centuries long duty. Maybe more will be explained as things go on, but right now it just seems like Horus is retarded and maybe he's also right because if he can turn on such a dime maybe the Emperor is also retarded for trusting him.

It sounds like I'm shitting on the books but I am quite enjoying everything around this situation, really invested in how Loken is going to have to deal with it considering his loyalty to Horus.
 
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caonima said:
If I remember correctly when they were writing the very first HH books it wasn;t planned to be a long series so they rushed through why he turned traitor and as a result made him retarded as you said, but then the success they has with those books made them expand it into the 50 something book series it is today.
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While the HH stuff is obviously the biggest example of that issue (stuff wildly expanding beyond the original scope without planning), it wasn't the only one. The fact that GW refused to move the timeline along for so long meant if they wanted to do anything they often went back and expanded prior events in shitty ways.

My personal biggest/worst example of this is the First War for Armageddon. We went from Logan Grimnar arguing with the Inquisition, and maybe trolling some Stormtroopers by blatantly hiding some Guardsmen and daring them to say something about it, to full scale marine on marine violence, culminating in priceless ships being destroyed, a Grey Knight Grandmaster getting beheaded and a full scale attack on the Fenris System.
 
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Professor G. Raff said:
Maybe more will be explained as things go on, but right now it just seems like Horus is retarded and maybe he's also right because if he can turn on such a dime maybe the Emperor is also retarded for trusting him.
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caonima said:
If I remember correctly when they were writing the very first HH books it wasn;t planned to be a long series so they rushed through why he turned traitor and as a result made him retarded as you said, but then the success they has with those books made them expand it into the 50 something book series it is today.
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That may have been a typo but currently it's over 500
 
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Well, I've finished reading the second of the Dark Angels series. Started pretty good with Asmodai chimpimg at this random dude when he was supposed to be out babysitting the kids...And then it turns out that despite being an Chaplain, he's also vulnerable to the mind games that his boss is known for. But hey, at least the guy certainly practices what he preaches...Even when his prisoner escapes before he could finish his dramatic executioner's speech. Overall, he's pretty entertaining whenever he pops up. Plus, he enjoys being cleansed by an heavy flamer in the middle of battle.

As for the rank and file Marines, the marksman who was previously obsessed with his kill count got force fed serving after serving of humility that started from waddling about in Termie armor to losing the lower half of his body.

Everyone else is just waiting to see if their Master of Sanctity still has what it takes to keep his position by going along with his prisoners' schemes and so far, the First Legion is getting their asses handed to them, for an change.

Overall, it's an better read than the previous one; but the characters still feel an bit on the one dimensional side
 
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Professor G. Raff said:
I've been reading the Horus Heresy recently as my first entrance into 40k stuff outside of the general internet osmosis things you pick up randomly. One of those things you can't avoid is obviously Horus betraying the Emperor and while I knew it did happen, I didn't know why or how and figured it would probably be some big tragic thing. So, I am near the beginning of Galaxy in Flames, having read the previous two and now finding out how Horus turned... is he just stupid? It's really making the Primarchs seem like a joke if the chosen favorite is like "Hey Erebus, I know you were lying to me and showing illusions and set up the circumstances that got me in this near death state but I'm just gonna do what you wanted me to anyway, lul". I understand Horus is very prideful, but I would think it would take way more than that stupid display to make him completely turn him from his centuries long duty. Maybe more will be explained as things go on, but right now it just seems like Horus is retarded and maybe he's also right because if he can turn on such a dime maybe the Emperor is also retarded for trusting him.

It sounds like I'm shitting on the books but I am quite enjoying everything around this situation, really invested in how Loken is going to have to deal with it considering his loyalty to Horus.
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Yeah, it's one of the weaker writing moments in the series. Like, you can argue that Erebus was doing some Chaos magic shit to warp Horus' mind and make him more susceptible to falling, on top of the stress of being Warmaster and his previously expressed pain and frustration that the Emperor tapped out of the Crusade without telling anyone why and was now apparently letting bureaucrats run rampant over the Imperium, but it still doesn't work as well as it should have.
caonima said:
If I remember correctly when they were writing the very first HH books it wasn;t planned to be a long series so they rushed through why he turned traitor and as a result made him retarded as you said, but then the success they has with those books made them expand it into the 50 something book series it is today.
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I remember reading somewhere that it was originally just going to be a trilogy, but when the first few books made a mint, GW decided to milk it for all it was worth and that's how we got where we are now.
 
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Professor G. Raff said:
I've been reading the Horus Heresy recently as my first entrance into 40k stuff outside of the general internet osmosis things you pick up randomly. One of those things you can't avoid is obviously Horus betraying the Emperor and while I knew it did happen, I didn't know why or how and figured it would probably be some big tragic thing. So, I am near the beginning of Galaxy in Flames, having read the previous two and now finding out how Horus turned... is he just stupid? It's really making the Primarchs seem like a joke if the chosen favorite is like "Hey Erebus, I know you were lying to me and showing illusions and set up the circumstances that got me in this near death state but I'm just gonna do what you wanted me to anyway, lul". I understand Horus is very prideful, but I would think it would take way more than that stupid display to make him completely turn him from his centuries long duty. Maybe more will be explained as things go on, but right now it just seems like Horus is retarded and maybe he's also right because if he can turn on such a dime maybe the Emperor is also retarded for trusting him.

It sounds like I'm shitting on the books but I am quite enjoying everything around this situation, really invested in how Loken is going to have to deal with it considering his loyalty to Horus.
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This is what happens when you need to backfill lore that was originally setup because it sounded "cool" or whatever. Yes, the primarchs are actually a joke and one of the lamest parts about the HH books.

I'm not going to spoil anything about Loken, but what the HH books actually manage to do is interesting characterization of characters OTHER than the primarchs, because characters like Loken hadn't been previously setup with a 2 sentence backstory equating to a moustache twirling villain that suddenly needed 20,000 words written to expand it. Granted this never happens with Erebus, in fact he continues to be a moustache twirling villain the reader is expected to hate even into the siege of terra stuff. Interestingly enough, a couple of primarchs who had next to no previous lore almost get a little interesting like jaghatai khan but still manage to not quite make it other than the occasional line here and there.
 
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