Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

The Russian airbase in Morozovsk, Rostov region, Russia, home to the 559th Guards Bomber Aviation Regiment, which has 3 squadrons of Su-34 fighters stationed there, is getting droned atm:

 

[Abowaffen]

Here is a month old article back when Trump met with Orban.

Trump will not give a penny to Ukraine - Hungary PM Orban​

3 hours ago
By Jaroslav Lukiv,BBC News

Hungarian PM Viktor Orban (left) and former US President Donald Trump are long-term allies as seen in this photo from 2019
Donald Trump will not fund Ukraine's fight against Russia's invasion if he is elected US president again, Hungarian PM Viktor Orban has said.
"He will not give a penny in the Ukraine-Russia war. That is why the war will end," the conservative premier said after meeting Mr Trump in Florida.
The former US president has pledged to end the war "within 24 hours" if elected - but provided no details.
Mr Orban is openly backing his long-term ally in the 2024 White House race.

"It is obvious that Ukraine cannot stand on its own feet," Mr Orban told Hungary's M1 TV channel late on Sunday.
"If the Americans don't give money and weapons, along with the Europeans, then the war is over. And if the Americans don't give money, the Europeans alone are unable to finance this war. And then the war is over."
He added that Mr Trump had "pretty detailed plans" on how to end the Russia-Ukraine war - but did not elaborate.
Mr Trump has not publicly commented on Mr Orban's TV interview.
At their Friday meeting in Mr Trump's Mar-a-Lago mansion, the former US president praised his guest. "There's nobody that's better, smarter, or a better leader than Viktor Orban. He's fantastic," he said.

During his US visit, Mr Orban did not meet current US President Joe Biden, who is expected to be Mr Trump's main rival in the presidential elections in November.
It is highly unusual for a visiting foreign leader to schedule talks with former counterparts without calling on the current leadership.
Ukrainian forces are experiencing big ammunition shortages, as US military aid is stalled
The Hungarian prime minister has repeatedly drawn strong criticism from fellow EU leaders for maintaining close ties with Russian President Vladimir Putin, ever since he launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine on 24 February 2022.
Unlike many other Western nations, Mr Orban refuses to send weapons to its neighbour Ukraine, stating repeatedly that Kyiv is unable to win against a nuclear-armed Russia.

EU leaders are increasingly concerned that a second Trump presidency would see a significant reduction in US military and financial aid to Ukraine and also the Nato military alliance.
A $95bn (£75bn) foreign aid bill - including $60bn in military assistance to Ukraine - has been stalled in US Congress because of Republican opposition.
The Republicans - openly encouraged by Mr Trump - say they will not allow the bill to clear the final hurdle in the House of Representatives without first agreeing additional funding for US border security.
Russian forces have recently made gains in eastern Ukraine, as Kyiv experiences acute shortages in ammunition.
Ukraine is critically dependent on weapons from the US, the main supplier, and other Western allies to keep fighting Russia - a much bigger military force with an abundance of artillery ammunition. https://archive.ph/uAarD

So whats going on? There are three options here:
A: Trump lied to Orban
B: Orban lied to the public about what Trump told him.
C: Trump actually does in fact plan on starving Ukraine of anti-air Patriot ammo thereby causing mass urban civilian causalities to the point that Ukraine has to surrender land to Russia in a ceasefire, with Trump taking credit for the "peace".

The fact that Johnson has held up aid, and will probably continue to do so indefinitely leads me to go with option C as the most likely. I would love to be proven wrong Trump stans.

 

[Standardized Profile]

"I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, 'This is genius.' Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine—of Ukraine—Putin declares it as independent," Trump said on The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show on February 22.

Recognition of an adversary's success is not approval of that success. Putin's use of overt-covert action was genius. Better than anything CIA ever pulled off. Since you like to cherry-pick, here's a couple more cherries from that conversation:

He used the word ‘independent’ and ‘we’re gonna go out and we’re gonna go in and we’re gonna help keep peace.’ You gotta say that’s pretty savvy. ... I knew that he always wanted Ukraine. I used to talk to him about it. I said, ‘You can’t do it. You’re not gonna do it.’

Does any of that sound like approval to you? If you don't recognize American idioms because English is your second language or you are autistic, when we say "he used the word," that does not imply we endorse the usage we are quoting.

"Joe Biden should not be dragging us further toward World War III by sending cluster munitions to Ukraine — he should be trying to END the war and stop the horrific death and destruction being caused by an incompetent administration," Trump said.

Biden's administration is incompetent, and did contribute greatly to the conditions that made the war possible. Biden himself signaled a "minor [Russian] incursion" would be acceptable, causing panic in the White House and prompting a sharp rebuke from Zelenskyy. And let's not forget his Democratic predecessor's "flexibility."

In any case, you are cherry-picking your Trump quotes again. He was arguing against cluster munitions because of the UXO threat. The quote continues:

These unexploded cluster munitions will be killing and maiming innocent Ukrainian men, women, and children for decades to come, long after the war—we pray—has ended.

Biden's decision to send cluster munitions also drew criticism from Democrats:

Democrats on Sunday news shows appeared be torn on whether to support the cluster bombs. California Rep. Barbara Lee (D) took aim at Biden’s approval of cluster munitions to Ukraine as the country prepares a counteroffensive against Russia’s invasion.

“Cluster bombs should never be used. That’s crossing a line,” Lee said on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

“Once you see what takes place, we know what takes place in terms of cluster bombs being very dangerous to civilians. They don’t always immediately explode. Children can step on them. That’s a line we should not cross,” she added.

Democratic Sen. Tim Kaine (Va.) also expressed concerns about the cluster munitions Sunday, saying that he has some “real qualms” about the decision. He pointed to a 2008 treaty signed by 123 countries that pledged not to use cluster munition weapons in war, but the U.S., Russia and Ukraine are not signatories on the treaty.

He did offer some praise for the Biden administration’s agreement with Ukraine to ensure it will use them “in a way to dislodge Russian military while minimizing risks to Ukrainian civilians.”

“I would still say, though, I have some real qualms about it,” he told anchor Shannon Bream on “Fox News Sunday.” “When there’s an international prohibition, and the U.S. says, ‘But here’s a good reason to do something different,’ it could give a green light to other nations to do something different as well.”

So this isn't some idiosyncratic sentiment that Trump got in his daily email from the rezidentura. It's a widely-held, long-established, bipartisan opinion based on protection of civilians and the norms of armed conflict.

“We’re giving away so much equipment, we don’t have ammunition for ourselves right now,” the ex-president said at the CNN town hall. And, he added, “we don’t have ammunition for ourselves we’re giving away so much” – comments that tapped into a seam of isolationism in the modern-day Republican Party.

We are giving away a lot of munitions and materiel. We need to build more. I hope you don't disagree--even if you think the US defense industrial base exists solely to arm Ukraine, we need sufficient arms to defend that base so we can keep on arming Ukraine. We also need sufficient arms for all our other defense commitments: Israel and Taiwan are the most salient, but who knows what will pop off next? We still have Respected Comrade up in Best Korea, the Houthis (whatever the hell they are) are fucking up trade, and Chef's boys have been busy in Africa.

When he was asked by CNN anchor Kaitlan Collins whether he believes Putin should stand trial for alleged war crimes, Trump replied: “I’ll say this: I want Europe to put up more money.”

That's what he's been saying for years, ever since he was in office and probably before. I agree with Mr. Trump and I hope you do, too. Europe cannot offshore its security to America. European states must take measures to ensure their independence and sovereignty. Meeting NATO's 2% guideline would be a good start.

As for war crimes, that should be left ambiguous. Committing to a post-war legal course of action won't help win the war. Especially since we don't, at present, have the capability to remove Putin from Russia and deposit him in a dock at the Hague. That threat is hollow. The threat posed by increased defense spending, which results in missiles, shells, and bombs--that is not hollow.

Putin, Russia's longtime leader, said at the Eastern Economic Forum in Vladivostok, Russia, last week that he had heard "that Mr. Trump says he will resolve all burning issues within several days, including the Ukrainian crisis. We cannot help but feel happy about it."

Now you aren't cherry-picking Trump's quotes, you're quoting Putin. I was joking when I called you tovarisch, but I'm really starting to wonder. Does the Internet Research Agency pay in rubles, or do you get hard currency?

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

New Ukrainian FPV drone tactic:

Spoiler: For the uninitiated

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

View attachment 5877942View attachment 5877943
Source

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Drone which hit Kharkiv has writing which reads, "For Crocus City Hall"
View attachment 5877945

The amount of retards who associates Crocus massacre with Ukraine is stunning, propaganda did their best trying to implicate them despite having no evidence, it's blatantly stupid and makes no sense whatsoever, yet here we are
I also heard that there was an uptick in people seeking to sign military contract citing these events, which again boggles the mind

 

[World in Scarlet]

despite having no evidence

Achually:

️ Investigators have obtained data from the mobile phones of those accused of committing the terrorist attack at Crocus City Hall

The results of expert examination of mobile phones, which the terrorists tried to destroy, allowed obtaining significant data for the investigation on the circumstances of preparation for the crime.

The Crocus City Hall concert hall was chosen as the location for the attack on the instructions of the terrorists' handler.

On the morning of 24 February 2024, that is, on the anniversary of the start of the special military operation, one of the co-conspirators, on the instructions of the handler, found screenshots of images of the entrances to the Crocus City Hall building and the access roads to it on Internet resources and sent them to him. The accused confirmed all this in his testimony.

In addition, photo images of people in camouflaged uniforms with the Ukrainian flag against the background of destroyed houses and a Ukrainian postage stamp with an obscene gesture were found in the terrorist's phone.

This data may indicate a link between the terrorist act and the special military operation.

A set of investigative actions and operational measures to verify the involvement of representatives of the Ukrainian special services and international Islamist terrorist organisations in the organisation and financing of the terrorist act is being carried out.

source Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs

It's the usual schizophrenic nonsense (numerology obsession is bizarre as always).

 

[Bunny Wigglesworth]

Czech Initiative 'Gift for Putin' Delivers 1,000 RPG-75 Anti-Tank Rocket Launchers to Ukraine​

Spoiler: Excerpt

Citing information released on X Social Network (Ex Twitter) on March 25, 2024, the Czech-based initiative "Gift for Putin" has made significant contributions to the Ukrainian Armed Forces amidst the ongoing conflict with Russia. Leveraging the power of social media for fundraising, the initiative has successfully delivered 1,000 RPG-75 anti-tank grenade launchers to the 41st mechanized brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. This delivery, valued at approximately 1 million euros, was entirely funded by public donations, showcasing widespread public support for Ukraine's defense efforts.

The RPG-75 anti-tank rocket launchers, known for their effectiveness against armored vehicles, represent a crucial addition to Ukraine's military capabilities in the face of Russian invasion. This support comes at a critical time as Ukraine continues to defend its sovereignty and territorial integrity against the Russian armed forces.

Building on this momentum, "Gift for Putin" has announced its next ambitious project: raising funds to acquire 10 tons of plastic explosives intended for Ukrainian FPV (First Person View) drones. This initiative underscores the evolving nature of warfare and the increasing reliance on unmanned systems and innovative technologies on the battlefield.

God bless the Czechs.

 

[WhiteNight]

In any case, you are cherry-picking your Trump quotes again.

I too am sick of these misrepresentations, such as Trump's anecdote about how he pressured Europe to pony up more for NATO being interpreted as sincerely inviting Russia to attack. However, the fact remains, these are bad times for those of us who had been broadly supportive of the Tea Party / MAGA / Freedom Caucus movements.

I was elated to see the likes of J.D. Vance, Ron Johnson, Matt Gaetz, even Boebert and MTG, winning elections and putting up a fight, and watching how the liberal mainstream seethed and then lied about them. Much like with Trump, there was hope that the current replacement-level immigration would be dealt with, and the woke cultural rot and judicial corruption infecting this country could be fought or even reversed.

Instead, little was accomplished on any of these fronts, and these people's greatest achievement has been starving Ukraine of support for no fucking reason, refusing to spend what is chump change to our budget to send them a lifeline, an amount dwarfed by the trillions we spent failing to fix Afghanistan.

I'm now growing to hate this whole crew, along with their once-respectable enablers such as Tucker Carlson.

Maybe Trump will be different and do the right thing. But given his allies' track record, there's reason to be doubtful. I can't see myself voting blue while the left is eagerly corrupting every institution and turning America to shit. But I fear that this year's election has no good outcome and we're only picking our poison.

 

[East_Clintwood]

The Russian airbase in Morozovsk, Rostov region, Russia, home to the 559th Guards Bomber Aviation Regiment, which has 3 squadrons of Su-34 fighters stationed there, is getting droned atm

https://archive.is/lEGmI

BBC article, apparently Ukrainian sources are claiming 6 planes KIA, and 8 more badly damaged, but obviously no confirmation.

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

Maybe Trump will be different and do the right thing. But given his allies' track record, there's reason to be doubtful. I can't see myself voting blue while the left is eagerly corrupting every institution and turning America to shit. But I fear that this year's election has no good outcome and we're only picking our poison.

Problem is the democrats and their cucked simp RINOs have tainted everything so much, even things like Ukraine is politically fucking GRIDS ridden radioactive for everyone who isn't a democrat. Moreso with the communist leftist democrats attacking "fascist" Americans for wanting to defend American borders and the United States itself.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

Achually

Did they find a copy of Sims too by any chance?

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

A Ukrainian Baba Yaga/hexadrone firing an MG is spotted by the Russians:

---

Here's the Ukrainians building a prototype:

It might be based on a system like this.

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Another Russian tank with the new EW/jamming system we've been seeing got hit by an FPV, while on the move:

 

[Sargon's wife's son]

View attachment 5853829

According to Zigger logic this means everybody in America is a Nazi and their cities should be bombarded with cruise missiles.

Well,. the Vatican still has a vast network of diplomatic contacts, wealth and is the spiritual leader of over a billion. There's quite a few Greek Rite Catholics, something like 20% of believers in Ukraine. His blundering diplomacy (apart from Cardinal Zuppi's prisoner mediation) and that means his words matter.
View attachment 5866464View attachment 5866470View attachment 5866477View attachment 5866465
Alex Liashuk's fearsome war cat Shaybaboy

Greek Catholics are the most hated group in Greece the most hated group in the Ukraine mainly because they were the people who were helping the Polish trying Wipe Out the Ukrainian identity in the 1600s

they also complete and utter assholes the few I had to interact with on one occasion came to my church didn't realize it was an Orthodox Church my priest kindly told them we don't have open communion .
And then they followed to start a screaming argument after the service with my priest nearly punched them in the face the Greek Catholic Church is filled with ********

I too am sick of these misrepresentations, such as Trump's anecdote about how he pressured Europe to pony up more for NATO being interpreted as sincerely inviting Russia to attack. However, the fact remains, these are bad times for those of us who had been broadly supportive of the Tea Party / MAGA / Freedom Caucus movements.

There's actually a lot of truth to the fact that those agents of the Russian government who in trump's inner circle but trump himself believes in what we would call a mixture of Mad Men diplomacy and peace through strength it's actually some of the most effective forms of diplomacy and foreign policy Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan used it to great effect against the Soviet Union.
You wanna know a fun little antidote every single major war America's been involved in has started in a democratic administration the Democrats are a threat to America's stability and should be banned as a political party

 

[Thomas Talus]

You wanna know a fun little antidote every single major war America's been involved in has started in a democratic administration the Democrats are a threat to America's stability and should be banned as a political party

I realize that some people really dislike the Bushes, but they don't actually have "D" after their name. Nor did Abe Lincoln.

 

[Ghostse]

He’s been very open that he’s on Putin’s side.

Number of times Ukraine was invaded while Trump was in office: 0
Number of times Ukraine was invaded after Trump was in office: 1
Number of time Ukraine was invaded immediately before Trump was in office: 1

I'm not sure its Trump who is on Putin's side going just by the numbers.

 

[Sargon's wife's son]

I realize that some people really dislike the Bushes, but they don't actually have "D" after their name. Nor did Abe Lincoln.

America's involvement in World War Democrat America's involvement in World War 2 Democrat
Abraham Lincoln is spiritually and policy wise indistinguishable from a Democrat we don't want him as a republican
the war in Iraq escalation Democrat the war in Syria Democrat the war in Libya Democrat
the Russo Ukrainian war is completely the fault of the Democratic Party Obama could have very easily just slapped Vladimir Putin around in 2014 and there wouldn't be a war
escalation of the Ukrainian conflict Democrat Joe Biden
the modern problems involved in the Middle East Israeli Palestinian conflict as well as the complete destabilization of Iran as an American ally Democrat Jimmy Carter
the cocking up of the Cuban missile crisis Democrat John Fitzgerald Kennedy he was also responsible for escalating the war in Vietnam and failed policies for not winning the war in Vietnam
the current situation in the Korean Peninsula is the fault of Harry Truman because we were every bit capable of crushing the north Vietnamese and just having the Chinese break on American fortifications.
The entire reason the CCP is a problem you can thank its creation on one Eleanor Roosevelt and Franklin delmore Roosevelt letting a bunch of communists spies into the US state department as well as supporting Joseph Stalin and the murder of nearly 30 million people Democrat he's also responsible for handing well over half of Europe over to the communists as well as undermining European hegemony in Africa and the Middle East creating the shitstorm we know today.
The withdrawing of military support to the white army Woodrow Wilson Democrat
he's also responsible for completely destabilizing Europe by creating a bunch of stupid little tiny states that will later absorb by the advancing Red Army
the Democrats should never be allowed to hold office in America and should be labeled as a domestic terrorist organization they seem to have a lot of foot soldiers in groups like BLM and antifa.
And the only reason they support Ukraine is because they've convinced themselves that Ukrainians are actually super liberal guys even though they hate gay marriage hate the Jews hate anyone who's not Ukrainian which is perfectly fine because every country has a right to do that I'm not convinced Vladimir Putin is this big bad ultra nationalist Christian fundamentalist he's none of those things he's just a really really good KGB agent who is master the art of tailoring his message to the most broad group of people possible in order to build a massive base of support.
To nick Fuentes is a traditionalist Christian
to Jackson hinkle he's a beast Stalinist
to all the non white filled world is trash he's a supporter of anti colonialism you know if people were actually less ridiculous they would study how Vladimir Putin operates propaganda and use it in their own strategies of psychological warfare but then again the people running American intelligence operations aren't particularly intelligent they were completely run around by Cuban military intelligence which literally has the budget of the US army's coffee supply at most

 

[BlackDragoons]

Sooo I know I'm late but whos fucking idea is it to strap ECM systems ontop of tanks?
This shits beyond ghetto.

 

[Jewthulhu]

Retardation

First, learn punctuation. Second, you moved the goalposts. You said specifically said "every single major war America's been involved in has started in a democratic administration"

I could probably go through your list and tell you where you're wrong, but I'll spare the thread and just give a TLDR of my main point on Ukraine, specifically:

Foreign relations is messy. It doesn't matter if you're red or blue, you're going to make choices that in hindsight were retarded. HW Bush fucked up by not being proactive in encouraging the post-soviet order. Obama fucked up by capitulating to Putin. Trump fucked up by making Ukraine a political tool. Biden fucked up by being intentionally divisive and killing any chance of bipartisan support. The war in Ukraine is not the fault of Democrats or Republicans alone, but a series of US geopolitical blunders since 1991. And the current situation can best be blamed on political pigheadedness and short-sighted thinking on both sides.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

Sooo I know I'm late but whos fucking idea is it to strap ECM systems ontop of tanks?
This shits beyond ghetto.
View attachment 5881683

In this case I don't believe they were powered up, and were meant to be unloaded & used by their infantry once they had taken a position. Since trucks wouldn't be very survivable in the initial assault (as if it matters), they had to transport it on top of a tank's cope cage because it would interfere gun rotation piled on the engine deck, possibly with cooling as well.

---

Russian arms manufacturer Lobaev has built a prototype remote shotgun-turret, ostensibly for anti-drone use:

They're gonna have to work on that pan/tilt speed; the slew rate couldn't keep up with a golf cart, much less a tiny, fast-moving drone.

I wonder what choke it has because tracking so slowly would demand one that's full open.... making it useless against slower/hovering drones at dropping or overwatch altitudes. With a full choke they could possibly hit those, but then forget about FPVs, and I highly doubt the thing has removable chokes anyways.

 

[Sargon's wife's son]

First, learn punctuation. Second, you moved the goalposts. You said specifically said "every single major war America's been involved in has started in a democratic administration"

I could probably go through your list and tell you where you're wrong, but I'll spare the thread and just give a TLDR of my main point on Ukraine, specifically:

Foreign relations is messy. It doesn't matter if you're red or blue, you're going to make choices that in hindsight were retarded. HW Bush fucked up by not being proactive in encouraging the post-soviet order. Obama fucked up by capitulating to Putin. Trump fucked up by making Ukraine a political tool. Biden fucked up by being intentionally divisive and killing any chance of bipartisan support. The war in Ukraine is not the fault of Democrats or Republicans alone, but a series of US geopolitical blunders since 1991. And the current situation can best be blamed on political pigheadedness and short-sighted thinking on both sides.

George W Bush failed because George W Bush is a globalist and one of the first people to come up with the idea of a one world government he actually made a speech to that effect.

Obama surrounded himself with the worst aspects of new left weirdos globalists and the most corrupt woman in politics Hillary Rodham Clinton who spent her entire term as Secretary of State taking bribes from foreign governments to engage in the most complete waste of America's goodwill when it came to geopolitics.
I don't particularly like moammar Gaddafi but Libya was objectively a more functioning country and there wasn't a mass immigration problem when it was still intact under his leadership.
Isis only exists because we were funding moderate rebels.

Then like Democrats before him he invited a known communist spy Jim Carrey to be Secretary of State
it's weird how every time a person we know is a communist subversive gets into position of power in America they advance Russia's interests it's almost like people rightly or wrongly you're still convinced Russia is a communist country.

But the Democratic Party will never admit that the party has been filled with communists since the 1930s.

All it would have taken to resolve the conflict was a good bit of gunboat diplomacy involving a US carrier strike group parking itself in the Black Sea and saying we are enforcing the Budapest memorandum please withdraw all of your troops from sovereign Ukrainian territory or they will be bombut that would be whiskey democratically

it's not even that complicated Joe Biden has every authority vested in him to enforce American treaties and military obligations he could very easily sell a US carrier strike group into the Black Sea and pound the Russian fleet into the dirt and cover a Ukrainian advance into Crimea but he won't due to the fact that Joe Biden is a doddering demented fool
like all democratic administrations he has absolutely no balls when it comes to enforcing American treaties.
It was Ronald Reagan that brought the Soviet Union to its knees by just not taking their **** and if we wanted to deal with Russia and China that would be our policy we don't take idle threats seriously Iran wants to play screwy games in the Middle East Iran would be a smoking crater we'd be invading Palestine from the sea and crushing Hamas alongside Israel.

We do not negotiate with terrorists communists or enemies of the free world but no one in America has confidence in a grand geostrategic vision for America even a grand vision for America just apathetic nihilism