Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Fapcop]

The reason for this drama is that as soon as Turkey figures out what the radar signature of an F-35 looks like using Russian radar, Russia and China will also identify how to spot our newest wunderwaffen and shoot them down. Right now, the F-35 is the only major weapons platform the West still has that's a generational leap ahead of Eastern capabilities. It's not enough to win a war by itself, but it's enough to rustle Xi and Putin's jimmies.

Pretty sure they already know what they need to know.

Didn’t the Chinese already download terabytes of F35 and F22 data?

Israel is another likely place to leak whatever info they need. (Over a million Russians, some of whom surely can be lured by money, amazing GPU blowjobs, or reminders that surely they don’t want their babushka in Kursk to be blown up by a NATO nuke.)

Couldn't Russia figure it out anyways, like putting monitoring stations near Afghanistan or wherever the F-35 gets flown?

The thing is, they usually put radar reflectors devices on them, to give a much bigger radar signature than with the reflector off.

They probably know what they need to know though. As I mentioned, the chinks downloaded the whole program, and likely shared it with Russia.

To a large extent it’s also simple math. Build a model of a plane and you’ll know roughly what the radar signature is. The radar signature is of course only a small part of how you spot a plane. There’s also infrared signature that you can’t hide as well, and the different bands of radar.

TLDR: Russkies have shown themselves able to shoot down tiny Storm Shadow missiles in flight. The F35 won’t be an issue for the S400 or S500.

 

[blackjack101]

Russia's Grom UAV, Turkey's Kizelma UAV, U.S. Valkyrie UAV visually look like F-35s but at a smaller scale size, just slap some RAM on it and because of size it will return a smaller radar than the F-35. If those can get shot faraway, the F-35 can get shot further away.

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

Couldn't Russia figure it out anyways, like putting monitoring stations near Afghanistan or wherever the F-35 gets flown?

Eventually. But the F-35 does live up to the hype, according to the guys flying them. They did an amazing job with all-aspect stealth.

Except for ideal black bodies (), all physical objects must reflect electromagnetics at some freqs, obviously, so you need lots of time, favorable conditions, and controlled trial and error to figure out the best approaches to nullifying F-35 radar stealth (and EM and IR signatures). In varying weather conditions and from every possible angle.

Turkey, if it was both owner and operator of the S-400 and F-35 would have been able to do both at leisure. Forced to, in truth. It would be irresponsible of a Turkish air force general to not want to fully test the strengths and weaknesses of both of his premier air/anti-air systems. The Turks get a lot of shit, but their military is no joke. Those guys aren't playing around.

Didn’t the Chinese already download terabytes of F35 and F22 data?

Yes. The Chengdu J-20 is the F-35 you'd buy from Alibaba.

It's not as good as the F-35 because we're still better than the Chinks at engines, materials science, and sensor fusion.

But it's still a very capable aircraft that could, all by itself, ruin a US carrier group's day. And the Chinese are making hundreds of them a year.

TLDR: Russkies have shown themselves able to shoot down tiny Storm Shadow missiles in flight. The F35 won’t be an issue for the S400 or S500.

We're talking about major breakthroughs tho.

Right now, let's say a Russian S-300 system can spot a Western stealth plane at, 10 miles? (Not a real number, just a possibility). The F-35 has probably already fired its weapons at you by this point tho.

But if you figured out how to tweak your radar so it can spot an F-35 at 50 miles, or even longer via AWACS, the West's only major advantage over Russia becomes less dangerous.

 

[Cuckoman]

The video is filmed by a Russian drone, and shows some Ukrops casually killing their comrades, putting them in the boat and leaving. Most likely to avoid being sent into action.

Comrade is a very odd word to describe political officers or Azov backstop troops.

I bet the original plan was that the "innocent victims" had planned that they would stay safely behind on the shore while forcing the "killers" to ride the boat to certain death by artillery.
Funny how things sometimes don't go as planned.

 

[Male Idiot]

Hm, I would be fine with periscopes and cameras, but I think its biggest issue is that its a big target with a high profile. Its front looks heavily armoured, but those sides look like they are just begging for a hit. But hey, at least it looks comfier to sit in for big tall azov chunguses.

 

[Betonhaus]

Comrade is a very odd word to describe political officers or Azov backstop troops.

I bet the original plan was that the "innocent victims" had planned that they would stay safely behind on the shore while forcing the "killers" to ride the boat to certain death by artillery.
Funny how things sometimes don't go as planned.

If it was yet another suicide photo op that would make sense.

 

[Cuckoman]

If it was yet another suicide photo op that would make sense.

It was taken by russian drone so I think it was never meant to be known what happened here.

I think the plan was :
Survivors reporting back to command:
"About those Azov guys. Have no idea what happened to them. They said this mission required real professional soldiers so they hopped in the boat and rode away. Never saw them since. Guess they must have died from russian artillery."

 

[The Ugly One]

Right now, the F-35 is the only major weapons platform the West still has that's a generational leap ahead of Eastern capabilities

Nobody has aircraft carriers like the USA does. Russia can't even keep theirs seaworthy. Pretty sure the T-95 is also about a generation behind the M1A2 SEP v3.

However, what the Ukrainian war has shown Russia is that this doesn't really matter. Russia is not going to fight NATO, it's going to fight NATO proxies. The USA does not put its fleet in the service of third world shitholes. It does not send them the latest M1A2s. The corruptucrats who hired our President's son will never come near an F-35.

Russia doesn't need to beat our best, they need to beat the outdated junk we send to our proxies, and they can do that.

 

[Fapcop]

Right now, let's say a Russian S-300 system can spot a Western stealth plane at, 10 miles? (Not a real number, just a possibility). The F-35 has probably already fired its weapons at you by this point tho.

I think you’ve been drinking the NATO koolaid fren!

The F35 first of all isn’t “invisible” to radar, it just has a smaller radar cross section IN SOME DIRECTIONS (Primarily the front)and IN SOME radar bands. (Primarily the X band.)

The TLDR is that the F35 is meant to be hard to shoot down, if it’s in a 1:1 dogfight with a 30-40 year old plane from some shithole middle eastern country.

It’s an entirely different matter if you send the F35 up against a country with a proper, integrated air defense/area denial system. Like Russia, or China or even Iran who have been trying to catch up.

If The F35 is up against, say a lonely MiG 21 or MiG29, especially in a frontal assault, chances are that the planes X band radar won’t see it before it’s too late.

If it’s up against an S300 system with a detection range of 300 kilometers, and also uses S and L band radar and early warning VHF systems, then it’s not looking nearly as good for the F35.

(And of course, part of the Russian area denial system is built on depth. There’d never be just one radar in one band looking in one direction. The F35 would likely be spotted from the side first, that is it’s weak spot, before the targeting information is fed to another radar and the missile itself.)

Comrade is a very odd word to describe political officers or Azov backstop troops.

I bet the original plan was that the "innocent victims" had planned that they would stay safely behind on the shore while forcing the "killers" to ride the boat to certain death by artillery.
Funny how things sometimes don't go as planned.

Karma comes at you fast sometimes!

 

[Male Idiot]

Speaking of radar, how good is infra-red at detecting planes? Can it be used at all? Do modern missiles heatseek or is that just a video game autism with no real life basis?

 

[Fapcop]

Nobody has aircraft carriers like the USA does.

Because nobody needs them.

Carriers are also the modern equivalent of battleships. A very, very expensive, outdated weapons platform.

The aircraft carrier is to hypersonic missiles what the big surface fleet was to the torpedo/plane combo.

Russia can't even keep theirs seaworthy.

Russia is a land power. They inherited a carrier or two from the Soviet Union, and has little need for them. First of all because Russia doesn’t have colonial satraps to boss around. Secondly, it’s an outdated waste of money.

Pretty sure the T-95 is also about a generation behind the M1A2 SEP v3.

Lol. Not this shit again.

And no, not only is the T90 a newer design than the venerable old Adams, the newest SEP v 3 is quite the shitbox.

I’m going to be fair though, and say that both the latest Abrams and the latest T90 are very good at doing what they were designed to do. The T90 was created to fight, and win in wars. The latest Abrams was designed and created around sucking the maximum amount of money from taxpayers to the MIC, and it excels at that. (The whole war part though? Not so much.)

However, what the Ukrainian war has shown Russia is that this doesn't really matter. Russia is not going to fight NATO, it's going to fight NATO proxies.

Well… NATO doesn’t really have an army. Most of the material they had, they sent to Ukraine to have it blown up. Germany is one of the biggest militaries in NATO, and they have a few hundred tanks, many of which aren’t even functional, and as for ammunition, they’d run out after a week or two.

The truth is that Russia could easily roll into Berlin if they wanted to. Fortunately they have neither the desire nor the need. Yet, anyways.

The USA does not put its fleet in the service of third world shitholes. It does not send them the latest M1A2s. The corroptucrats who hired our President's son will never come near an F-35.

Russia doesn't need to beat our best, they need to beat the outdated junk we send to our proxies, and they can do that.

My guy… The US’s “best” got kicked out of Afghanistan by a bunch of goatherders with AKs.

The problem with the US military is that its primary purpose is to funnel money to the MIC and into politicians pockets. So you get material that’s very expensive, and looks super dapper and high tech. But can’t win wars.

The US military is like a Ferraris without wheels like colonel McGregor (I think) put it. It looks great, but if you take it for a drive you’re in for a bad time.

Speaking of radar, how good is infra-red at detecting planes? Can it be used at all? Do modern missiles heatseek or is that just a video game autism with no real life basis?

Modern planes, Russian, European, have IR detectors with a range in tens of kilometers.

The exhaust of a jet plane is VERY warm in very cold environment, so it’s used not just in missiles but also awareness/radar systems.

 

[oh no its pipkun]

My guy… The US’s “best” got kicked out of Afghanistan by a bunch of goatherders with AKs.

we won our afghan war. It was our incompetent puppets in kabul that got us booted out of afghanistan. they didnt pay, feed or supply their army so there was no one to fight the taliban.

 

[SilentDuck]

Nobody has aircraft carriers like the USA does. Russia can't even keep theirs seaworthy. Pretty sure the T-95 is also about a generation behind the M1A2 SEP v3.

The Abrams is certainly probable to outperform and win the big balls-to-the-wall-war-to-end-all-wars it was designed to but it's major issue today is Russia can observe the Abrams heat signature from space because it creates so much heat and consumes so much fuel just to idle.

Would do very well for WW3 on a field of slag as far as the eye can see but it's not really up for a game of nazi grabass with drones.

 

[The Ugly One]

Speaking of radar, how good is infra-red at detecting planes?

Bad. Gets broken up pretty easily by the atmosphere, and planes put their engines on the back. The best IR cameras can see a few miles, and with something that travels near supersonic speeds, you want to see 50+ miles away.

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

If it’s up against an S300 system with a detection range of 300 kilometers, and also uses S and L band radar and early warning VHF systems, then it’s not looking nearly as good for the F35.

My nigger, if stealth is as easy to defeat as you're suggesting, Russia, China, Europe, England, Japan and the United States wouldn't be spending billions developing the next generation of stealth planes.


But, for sure. F-35 is not invisible, merely hard to see and track. That makes it dangerous, along with its AESA radar, networked warfare systems and standoff weapons. Sensor fusion is another breakthrough idea. It's a shame the basic airframe was compromised to make the VTOL variant possible, but the overall plane is better than anything Russia and China can field right now.

 

[The Ugly One]

Russia is a land power. They inherited a carrier or two from the Soviet Union, and has little need for them.

So in other words, Russia's (and China's) aircraft carriers are indeed at least a generation (more, really) behind America's, you're just insisting they won't ever need to be able to launch warplanes from the sea.

Obviously, Russia and China don't agree with you, as they both have spent enormous sums of money to produce seaworthy carriers. Russia's simply failing to keep its shitbox afloat.

And no, not only is the T90 a newer design than the venerable old Adams,

They're both based on 1970s platforms. And generational differences are defined by technology, not born on date. Russian electronics and armor are a generation behind American technologies.

My guy… The US’s “best” got kicked out of Afghanistan by a bunch of goatherders with AKs.

When did goatherders using nothing more than small arms destroy a significant formation - say a division or battalion - of American troops armed with our best equipment?

 

[More AWS-8Q Than You]

It's a shame the basic airframe was compromised to make the VTOL variant possible, but the overall plane is better than anything Russia and China can field right now.

And the SU-57 is the closest. The J-20 seems like a good plane, but until they get those supercruising engines working, I don't know that it's really 5th Generation. But like most Chinese equipment, we just don't know if it's as advertised or not. Watching videos of their new service rifles keyholing at something like ten or twenty feet is almost painful.

 

[blackjack101]

ASML, skilled white people, military bases close to Russia.

The fucked up and funny part is I think those white people would be better off getting trained by Ukrainians for those of them that survived against the Russians with a lot of disadvantages than getting trained by those white people that didnt fight this war with a high chance of themselves getting killed. Not only did they rotate 100,000s of troops to be battle hardened but they are also evolving in this war.

https://www.russiadefence.net/t3117p625-russian-army-robots

Does operation steadfast defender take account for the FPV drone and artillery strike advantage or maybe the mass production of EW systems a potential adversary would have against them along with all their airfields getting destroyed forcing them all into a ground combat scenario?
hope the weather dries up soon.

 

[Betonhaus]

So in other words, Russia's (and China's) aircraft carriers are indeed at least a generation (more, really) behind America's, you're just insisting they won't ever need to be able to launch warplanes from the sea.

Obviously, Russia and China don't agree with you, as they both have spent enormous sums of money to produce seaworthy carriers. Russia's simply failing to keep its shitbox afloat.

Honestly I suspect Russia considers sea battles wholly unnecessary. Any battles involving people will be fought on land, and anything on the black sea will be sniped by high speed drones. Ships are only needed if Russia ever plans to bring wars to anyone else's shores, so them being completely uninterested is evidence they don't plan to invade other countries. At most they will use satellites and high speed missiles to detect American weapon sites and snipe them from the other side of the world.

 

[The Ugly One]

Honestly I suspect Russia considers sea battles wholly unnecessary.

It wouldn't be willing to wage war to keep Sevastopol if that were the case.

Naval warfare will remain relevant as long as sea transport remains important, not to mention the value of a submarine as a missile platform. Perhaps some day, we'll be able to skip the sea and go directly to the air, but I don't think anybody's seriously expected that to happen since 1940.