Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[blackjack101]

Estonia didn't want to be left behind the Czechs in mystery shells.
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This article also has some additional details about the supposed Czech ammunition sources:

I'm very doubtful.


QUICK, GIVE US MONEY NOW OR RUZZIA WINS.

the mystery continues to deepen.

 

[Vesperus]

I suspect all these mystery shells are actually from a Ukrainian arms dealer who nicked them from a warehouse in Kiev. He's going to sell them to three countries at once then immediately fuck off to retire in Fiji.

 

[Iron Jaguar]

I suspect all these mystery shells are actually from a Ukrainian arms dealer who nicked them from a warehouse in Kiev. He's going to sell them to three countries at once then immediately fuck off to retire in Fiji.

Yes. It's all a...shell game.....

 

[More AWS-8Q Than You]

As for the Liaoning carrier, that is from what I’ve read a pretty complicated story.

The chinks, wanting to learn how to build and operate carriers, bought an ex Soviet carrier from the Ukrainians.

(Who, as Ukrainians tend to do when they don’t have a Russian commissar keeping an eye on them, just let the carrier collapse into a hunk of rust.)

The Chinese somehow sailed this half-ship to China (and btw… Apparently it was a PRIVATE individual who foot the bill… And still hadn’t been paid back?!), fixed it up and made it seaworthy in a Chinese shipyard.


I’d venture to say, that given the long and complicated story behind this carrier (and Ukrainian involvement!) it’s hardly a story that you can draw hard and fast conclusions about corruption from.


Also: Pretty remarkable that the chinks went from having ZERO carriers and little in the way of a naval tradition, to having four carriers and more coming in just a few decades.

It is complicated and it is hard to say where Varyag's problems overlap with Chinese issues. Shandong doesn't seem to share the issues, at least visibly. I want to say they originally claimed they were going to turn it into a floating casino, but you know, Chinese things.

I've read an article that they may be cancelling their fifth and sixth planned carriers for the moment, because of issues with the electromagnetic catapults. Given we're having issues with them as well, they seem like they're more trouble than their worth.

 

[Glowing In The Streets]

Estonia didn't want to be left behind the Czechs in mystery shells.
View attachment 5883480
Archive


This article also has some additional details about the supposed Czech ammunition sources:

I'm very doubtful.


QUICK, GIVE US MONEY NOW OR RUZZIA WINS.

Sounds like a scam
Hello good sirs, this is john from minnesota, i am of need of your credit card number CVV and expiration to use your account to store funds temporarily to buy guns for ukraine. Do not tell anybody, this is a secret mission, and be fast or Russia wins
If you don't have a credit card, send gift cards. remember do not redeem

 

[Male Idiot]

Can a million shells even fit in Estonia? It is quite small.

Oddly enough, if any Hungarian politician succeeds at nibbing parts of the Ukraine, he will be remembered as the biggest leader of the 21st century. If not, his political career will be over in a day.

If the west really wanted to get Orbán fired, they would just have to strongarm him into not taking land by a good Minutemen or two threat, and he would loose any election, even against Hunter Biden.

 

[Eternal Gopnik]

Oddly enough, if any Hungarian politician succeeds at nibbing parts of the Ukraine, he will be remembered as the biggest leader of the 21st century.

I dunno, is that true? People ITT keep talking about how Hungary and Poland might want to take parts of Ukraine for themselves, but it doesn't seem like a winning proposal to me. It's a dysfunctional country in extreme debt, and grabbing its territory would mean taking responsibility for it. Neither Poland nor Hungary are rich enough to spare the money salvaging it.

 

[Kuritan Deplorable]

I dunno, is that true? People ITT keep talking about how Hungary and Poland might want to take parts of Ukraine for themselves, but it doesn't seem like a winning proposal to me. It's a dysfunctional country in extreme debt, and grabbing its territory would mean taking responsibility for it. Neither Poland nor Hungary are rich enough to spare the money salvaging it.

If Ukraine does get gutted in a peace treaty, and if that peace treaty also stipulates anything that prevents NATO from adding what is left to its ranks, it might be easier to just try and lawfare it by integrating it into a friendly entity. Then they can dump piles of pork barrel spending into funding a project to salvage and integrate them. Leaving a rump state that can't be meaningfully integrated into any military alliance isn't in anyone's interest except Russia, as they'd just rest up and then blitz it again in all likelyhood.

Its stupid, convoluted, and frankly just unlikely to ever happen, but its also the exact sort of textbook and fiscal spending plan I'd expect to be concocted by people as disconnected from real life as the average government official.

 

[Fapcop]

I dunno, is that true? People ITT keep talking about how Hungary and Poland might want to take parts of Ukraine for themselves, but it doesn't seem like a winning proposal to me. It's a dysfunctional country in extreme debt, and grabbing its territory would mean taking responsibility for it. Neither Poland nor Hungary are rich enough to spare the money salvaging it.

In the case of Hungary they have actual ehh… Hungarians (?!) living inside Ukraine. They may just find that their duty to the ethnic brethren weighs higher than the financial problems associated.

Also… Ukraine isn’t a bad piece of land to grab. Very fertile, mineral resources. The Western parts are pretty much untouched by war. And they get a fresh start without all the massive debt the Ukrainians have accumulated.

It is complicated and it is hard to say where Varyag's problems overlap with Chinese issues. Shandong doesn't seem to share the issues, at least visibly. I want to say they originally claimed they were going to turn it into a floating casino, but you know, Chinese things.

I've read an article that they may be cancelling their fifth and sixth planned carriers for the moment, because of issues with the electromagnetic catapults. Given we're having issues with them as well, they seem like they're more trouble than their worth.

NGL: “Problems with the EM catapult” sounds like a piss poor excuse to drop an entire carrier.

Steam catapults seem to do an alright job after all.

Kinda makes me wonder if it’s not Ukraine/modern warfare related.

That war has demonstrated the difference that drones and hypersonic missiles make.

Is there even a future for airplane carriers, at a time when hundreds of small drones or hypersonic missiles can sink them? Carriers are rapidly becoming the new Battleship. Too vulnerable and too expensive in resources to risk using in action.

They might just have chosen to wait and see for the time being. IF the article is correct of course.

 

[Corn Syrup Connoisseur]

NGL: “Problems with the EM catapult” sounds like a piss poor excuse to drop an entire carrier.

Steam catapults seem to do an alright job after all.

Steam catapults require a lot of fresh water. Getting fresh water from sea water requires using reverse osmosis, which uses a lot of electricity. The water also has to be heated up to create steam in quick succession for fast turnaround launches, which too is power intensive. Running steam catapults is thus only really viable on nuclear carriers due to power limitations. There's a reason why non-nuclear carriers use ramps and are more limited in aircraft types. If you can't use steam or EM catapults, I can see cancelling a non-nuclear aircraft carrier since it likely didn't reach planned launch capabilities.

I'm not familiar why EM catapults are so hard to make, but USA has also pushed their EMALS back to 2030's in the earliest.

 

[latinlover]

In the case of Hungary they have actual ehh… Hungarians (?!) living inside Ukraine. They may just find that their duty to the ethnic brethren weighs higher than the financial problems associated.

Correct me if I'm wrong aren't most of the transcarpathian hungarians in current year really just hungarian speaking gipsies? I remember looking at pictures of "hungarian" refugees in Budapest at the start of war, it looked like a batch of purebred pajeets from Bangladesh or something.
Can't imagine the average hungarian ultranationalist being overjoyed with the idea to import like 30000 or however many streetshitters from a region that is poorer than the most run down backwater dogshit place in Hungary, but maybe the revisionist autism is stronger than I think it is.

 

[Eternal Gopnik]

Correct me if I'm wrong aren't most of the transcarpathian hungarians in current year really just hungarian speaking gipsies?

I don't know if most are, but there is a good number of them for sure. Or there used to be - the moment the invasion started, they all bolted west. There was a literal gypsy camp in an unused parking lot next to the central train station in my city for several months. It smelled like shit. Same thing happened all over central Europe, but I think eventually they all got told to fuck off and go to Hungary since they all had HU passports. Or maybe they're now robbing tourists in France, I honestly have no clue where they went.

 

[Random Internet Person]

ZELENSKY WANTS MORE MAHNEY​

Cartoon published 04/06/2024

While the stories of Ukrainian dictator Zelensky buying yachts and mega-million dollar mansions may be false, there can be no doubt that staggering amounts of American taxpayer dollars are being wasted on a war in a country that has traditionally orbited Russia. Our Founding Fathers would be scratching their heads in dismay if they could see all the needless and dangerous foreign entanglements that modern US politicians have created.

The war in Ukraine would not have happened had it not been for CIA meddling. When Zelensky was installed, he attacked native Russians in the eastern part of Ukraine (Donbas Region), thus violating the Minsk Agreement. The US military industrial complex wanted another war to replace the money machine that was Afghanistan, and warmongers in both parties are cheerleading its escalation. They built a spate of dangerous bioweapons labs—a direct threat to Russia and only now have the US ‘authorities’ admitted it.

Russia will win, but due to US and NATO’s involvement, it will be far more bloody—and it could even provoke nuclear war, in which case most of the population on the planet will die. The military industrial complex and government insiders are OK with this—as long as they get their kickbacks and live large for the moment.

In still yet another provocation…Biden’s Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, called for Ukraine to be woven into NATO—which is the main reason Putin is waging the war. He does not want NATO on Russia’s doorstep and in a Russian-speaking nation. Yes, Zelensky grew up speaking Russian, not the Ukrainian language.

Zelensky wants the US to shovel even more billions of dollars into his bottomless Ukrainian coffer while his dwindling military shovels out more graves. He just announced he his expanding the ages for military service. Look for him to send children and very old men into his meat grinder. Zelensky is a comedian turned killer, and it’s no laughing matter. He murdered American journalist Gonzalo Lira and Biden said nothing.


If we cut off the money to Ukraine, the war there will end quickly. Instead, a decrepit, whispering old fool along with a plethora of war hawks in the Democrat Party will keep spending billions of dollars more in order for Zelensky to protract the conflict. When Zelensky finally does lose—and Ukraine will lose, he will place the blame firmly on the US and NATO for not doing enough.

After all, Zelensky wants World War III and so do the globalists. It’s pure insanity.

— Ben Garrison

 

[Kuritan Deplorable]

Steam catapults require a lot of fresh water. Getting fresh water from sea water requires using reverse osmosis, which uses a lot of electricity. The water also has to be heated up to create steam in quick succession for fast turnaround launches, which too is power intensive. Running steam catapults is thus only really viable on nuclear carriers due to power limitations. There's a reason why non-nuclear carriers use ramps and are more limited in aircraft types. If you can't use steam or EM catapults, I can see cancelling a non-nuclear aircraft carrier since it likely didn't reach planned launch capabilities.

I'm not familiar why EM catapults are so hard to make, but USA has also pushed their EMALS back to 2030's in the earliest.

Because you're trying to make what is close to a very long, carefully managed railgun that shoots planes, and they're expecting mechanic levels of system reliability out of what is fundamentally a smart electronics system that has to handle a huge amount of juice, built to the lowest bidders specifications. So when it inevitably blows a component, the entire thing goes completely non-functional, and replacement generally takes more than some guy with a welder and a wrench. It gets worse when you realize they're not just electrifying the rail and sending it, but running constant sensors up and down the length of the system to try and get the plane to exactly the desired velocity. Good for making sure you don't rip a gear or lob the plane into the sea, terrible when you consider trying to keep 300+ sensor segments operating within tight, narrow tolerances while living alongside highly electrified rails that have planes smashing across them, where loss of any single sensor degrades performance, and loss of too many probably makes it completely inoperable as designed.

They could probably see more success if they stopped trying to solve every problem at the same time, and just focused on the transition to rail.

 

[Gondolindrim]

Ben Garrison's been on the money about the Ukraine scam since the beginning. The audacity of getting everything you want and still pouting about not getting more is insane.

 

[St.Davis]

This article is from two days ago, but I think it flew under the radar.
Understandable though, since Micron's constant yapping has gotten tiring.
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I've heard (from reliable but unnameable sources) that Paris will be on high alert during the Olympics (10k frog troops in an FOB in Paris allegedly) and apparently there is a "greater than 100%" chance of some attack (though Russia wasn't mentioned at all).

I'll be there, unfortunately, so if there is an attack and I mysteriously stop posting: I may be dead.

Man I hope they're wrong.

 

[Butterschmalz]

Not true. Anyone can be beaten if their enemy has the will to actually defeat them. The USA has had no Will To Win since WW2. The solution to dealing with the Taliban was very simple: complete extermination of the Pashtun. This was quite achievable but politically distasteful.

I will not disagree. Only one comment I swear, since this is the Russo/Ukie thread.

But you would have to add that also the Soviet Union could have, but didnt, maybe it was "politically distasteful"? I dont know. You know the Soviet Union that actually won WW2. And the same with the British Empire that was "the largest empire in history". All of them "Could-have-beens". And now US is part of the same group too.

From the Russian movie "The 9th company":

Its not quiet clear what "winning" means nowadays. That I will admit that too. According to Blinken all goals in Afghanistan have been achieved. Bin Laden dead, Afghan army trained and armed, the rest is up to them. According to the Russians the demilitarization goal in Ukraine is already achieved, since Ukraine is using NATO equipment and not its own. OK. So yeah why not, lets do an "ethnic cleansing" in Afghanistan and get rid of all the Pashtuns. Because the rest of Afghans are actually democracy loving Americans. As soon as the Pashtuns are dead there will be gay pride parades and monster truck shows in Kabul. Maybe even gas station boner pills. And maybe in every Afghan there is a Burger that desperately wants to break free.

I m not the biggest America-hater here since I myself chose to become the neighbor to the north. But democracy is not really a goal and nothing worth fighting for, just a decision making principle. And a cold hearted, rational one on the top of it. You will need more then a death threat and some useless "human" rights in order to make Jewish style democracy (which is nothing but the rule of money) tasteful for mountain men who feel like they are "one with the earth and one with god".

 

[Random Internet Person]

@Butterschmalz if anything, I’d say the loser is the one being dragged kicking and screaming to the table where they have to sign a bunch of documents, treaties, and instruments. And the winner is the place that set up that table on their turf, assuming things don’t become a shit show like whatever happened in Yugoslavia and you’re going to exotic places like Dayton, Ohio.

At least that’s the structure I’ve used as a framework since the World Wars.

 

[Iron Jaguar]

But you would have to add that also the Soviet Union could have, but didnt, maybe it was "politically distasteful"?

The Soviets were convinced they could educate the Islam out of the Pashtun. They were wrong.
If they'd actually tried killing all of them, they could have.

You know the Soviet Union that actually won WW2

They would have lost to Germany if the Americans had stayed out of it.

 

[Abraham Lincoln]

There’s a growing awareness that western equipment isn’t as good as it has been cracked up to be…

And what is good enough like the M16, is getting replaced with doodoo.

America's enemies appreciate that rifle.

Just give it a collapsible stock.