Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[Colonel Gaddafi]

One of my biggest complaints is that the episodes are too short for actual character development. You have an 8 episode season, with 20ish minutes to fit in plot, character development, AND two musical numbers. It’s just going to fall short in some department. I felt like I was watching an animated play off of One Hundred Years of Solitude with the amount of characters that keep cropping up. It’s ridiculous.

That being said, I would have LIKED to have seen this as far as the characters are concerned:

* Consistency in character development. Make up your mind on who your characters are, what their motives are, and stick with it. One minute Vaggie is a dead sex worker, now she killed herself, now she’s an angel, it’s ridiculous. Also put in the BARE MINIMUM research when it comes to the time period in which your characters lived (Angel Dust isn’t ODing on PCP before it’s synthesized), and the values people had then (Alastor being mixed during the height of Jim Crow, and living the ‘good life’ in the Deep South isn’t practical). Why are some characters played off as ignorant due to the time period in which they lived, while others, like Rosie, are hip on the genderspecial lingo, despite looking like a Victorian? Why aren’t you giving a consistent picture to your VAs and other writers as to the backstory of the characters they’re portraying? It’s just…a mess.

*Consistency in world building. You wouldn’t think that Hazbin and Helluva Boss are even in the same universe, let alone that Hell is even a truly bad place when you’ve got deaf kids having emotional moments with your characters. Explain to me why you say that sinners can’t reproduce in Hell, but Charlie is a literal example of that, and Vaggie fell for not killing a (sinner?) child. Actually having souls born into Hell through no fault of their own, only to be killed during extermination, would be much more compelling to me than random furries and degenerates getting the knife.

* Actual character development instead of shallow ‘they are the way they are’ bullshit. Vox being Bipolar is an excellent concept, him flipping through emotions like one would change a channel. One minute the kindly TV dad, the next a ruthless exploitative tabloid talk show host. So much could be done with that. Alastor is textbook male BPD, the excitement/sensation seeking due to boredom that stems from chronic emptiness, violently impulsive, masking when everything inside is a mess, sociopathic, with a fragile ego that explodes when flaws are pointed out. Even Angel Dust could make a great character study in codependency, but Viv is too much of a fujo to go there. The foundation was laid, but Viv built the house out of popsicle sticks instead.

 

[Colon capital V]

I don't get Vox at all, he's supposed to be TV guy but in the song Stayed Gone they make a major point about him buffering which is a streaming thing not really a television issue. I get that TVs moved onto being stream based through the Internet, but isn't that Velvette's thing? She's the Internet person while Vox is more traditional and competes for the same boomer audience as Alastor?

I like the V's as well, I'd watch a show about them, but dumb shit like that makes them less interesting.

Also, huge miss on not making Vox bipolar with him swinging between the wholesome dad of the 50's sitcoms to the extremes of Jerry Springer. Sure, radio and movies had that kind of swing as well, but it was probably most drastic on TV with everything being Leave It To Beaver only to becoming Springer and Judge Judy.

This is what I find interesting about Vox because I saw someone point out an interesting detail about him. He seems like an idea that was in gestation for far too long that he eventually became outdated. By that I mean it seems like Vivz wanted him to be the "TV/Idiot Box guy is le bad because of media influence and rotting the brain" but that seems to have eventually shifted to a halfass attempt of including internet being le bad, but still trying to incorporate the main theme of Television. Cable television could not be on a more downward trajectory while the capital I Internet is continually growing bigger as time moves on, if this was a show from 20 years back this could've been an interesting villain to see but now? It just seems like a poorly aged character despite coming in current year.

 

[I_Am_Not_Bruce_Willis]

Has this thread gone on long enough that KF cares more about HH than most other parts of the Internet? Like, among the threads I'm following, I'm surprised this is among the most active.

 

[Papa stink]

I find it funny that when Zach got smiling friends on Adult Swim he still had people from Newgrounds do voices in his cartoon along with other YouTubers. Then when Vivzie got Hazbin Hotel on Prime she replaced most of the old voice actors with Broadway actors.

 

[Slav Power]

I find it funny that when Zach got smiling friends on Adult Swim he still had people from Newgrounds do voices in his cartoon along with other YouTubers. Then when Vivzie got Hazbin Hotel on Prime she replaced most of the old voice actors with Broadway actors.

Because the funny schnoz man has a heart of gold, worked hard to get where he is now and he respects the hustle of his fellow Newgrounds peers.

Vivz just got all that she has offered on a golden platter and is a two-faced backstabbing narcissistic bitch.

Hmm, maybe Stella was her self-insert after all.

 

[Digital Snow]

One of my biggest complaints is that the episodes are too short for actual character development. You have an 8 episode season, with 20ish minutes to fit in plot, character development, AND two musical numbers. It’s just going to fall short in some department.

You can't really pump up that episode length beyond 20-23 minutes without crushing your animators (any more than they probably already are, this show's character designs are way too busy for a serialized, traditionally animated show.) What the show wanted was more episodes. 8 episodes means the show's going to be short by animated show standards, but then they try to cram in so many subplots. There's no way HH wasn't going to have pacing problems.

Also, this is supposed to be a musical, right? The songs should be when you develop your characters, not fluff that's there for its own sake. I'd assume Vivz likes musicals, this is her show and musicals aren't a current trend to be cashed in on, so why does the show suck a being a musical?

 

[Seventh Star]

Has this thread gone on long enough that KF cares more about HH than most other parts of the Internet? Like, among the threads I'm following, I'm surprised this is among the most active.

It's because Vivz is a lolcow too.

 

[Colonel Gaddafi]

You can't really pump up that episode length beyond 20-23 minutes without crushing your animators (any more than they probably already are, this show's character designs are way too busy for a serialized, traditionally animated show.) What the show wanted was more episodes. 8 episodes means the show's going to be short by animated show standards, but then they try to cram in so many subplots. There's no way HH wasn't going to have pacing problems.

Also, this is supposed to be a musical, right? The songs should be when you develop your characters, not fluff that's there for its own sake. I'd assume Vivz likes musicals, this is her show and musicals aren't a current trend to be cashed in on, so why does the show suck a being a musical?

Many of the songs could have been cut, one song per episode was enough. Much of the music seems like filler regardless, take for example the song where Vaggie has a duet with Carmilla, when you look at it closely it makes absolutely no sense. A weapons dealing overload is afraid to get blood on her hands? Why is Vaggie so worried about Charlie? She’s exempt from the purges for being hellborn. Poison was literally just fujo coom bait.

If you had a longer season with less music it would have been much more serviceable.

 

[ReceiveAndAsk]

It's because Vivz is a lolcow too.

Is she tho? She's had the subtype of cushy life that does not create lolcows. Almost nothing of her behaviour would count as lolcow material.

 

[Seventh Star]

Is she tho?

I mean, she has the attitude, refusal to take criticism, and her show has given some pretty cow-adjacent behaviour from everyone involved. She just hasn't done much publicly yet.

 

[ReceiveAndAsk]

I mean, she has the attitude, refusal to take criticism, and her show has given some pretty cow-adjacent behaviour from everyone involved. She just hasn't done much publicly yet.

So, every white liberal upper-middle-class woman.

 

[AnOminous]

Is she tho? She's had the subtype of cushy life that does not create lolcows. Almost nothing of her behaviour would count as lolcow material.

Disagree. She may not yet have gone full cow but her inability not to respond to trolling is the mark of the cow. She completely flips out when criticized whether it is valid or not.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

Many of the songs could have been cut, one song per episode was enough. Much of the music seems like filler regardless, take for example the song where Vaggie has a duet with Carmilla, when you look at it closely it makes absolutely no sense. A weapons dealing overload is afraid to get blood on her hands? Why is Vaggie so worried about Charlie? She’s exempt from the purges for being hellborn. Poison was literally just fujo coom bait.

If you had a longer season with less music it would have been much more serviceable.

I think some episodes are fine with two songs, but at least one of the two really needed to be trimmed down. I think the last episode handled the two songs format well, with one being a short reprise and the other just being the send-off song.

But yeah the song you mentioned definitely felt the most unnecessary since it didn't progress the plot or develop/establish anyone.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Many of the songs could have been cut, one song per episode was enough. Much of the music seems like filler regardless, take for example the song where Vaggie has a duet with Carmilla, when you look at it closely it makes absolutely no sense. A weapons dealing overload is afraid to get blood on her hands? Why is Vaggie so worried about Charlie? She’s exempt from the purges for being hellborn. Poison was literally just fujo coom bait.

If you had a longer season with less music it would have been much more serviceable.

The other song with Carmilla and Vaggie doesn't make any sense either. "Don't fight for vengeance; fight for love". That's...literally been Vaggie all along. Her whole character is just about her loving Charlie and wanting to protect her. Maybe if we had focused on another aspect of Vaggie, we could have seen this so called vengeance. Maybe if Vaggie was more like her pilot counterpart, this arc would work for her because she does act more on her anger there. She does get aggressive. But I guess that would fall under the "fiery latina trope" and that's not good for current time.

Also, why does Nifty not get any songs? Her VA can sing and she is supposedly a main character. You have an entire song for a barely side character (Velvette), but Nifty only gets a couple of lines in the last ensemble. Guess it's because she's straight

 

[AnOminous]

Her whole character is just about her loving Charlie and wanting to protect her.

Charlie kind of does need to be protected because she's retarded.

 

[Retink Retunk]

This is what I find interesting about Vox because I saw someone point out an interesting detail about him. He seems like an idea that was in gestation for far too long that he eventually became outdated. By that I mean it seems like Vivz wanted him to be the "TV/Idiot Box guy is le bad because of media influence and rotting the brain" but that seems to have eventually shifted to a halfass attempt of including internet being le bad, but still trying to incorporate the main theme of Television. Cable television could not be on a more downward trajectory while the capital I Internet is continually growing bigger as time moves on, if this was a show from 20 years back this could've been an interesting villain to see but now? It just seems like a poorly aged character despite coming in current year.

I think that's the whole show, it's a bunch of interesting ideas that dragged on too long and were thrown into a blender of nonsense instead of the creator being willing to pin the piece in a period or general story. It reminds me of Juicero, the desire to combine things that are ok on their own, like making juice, a juicer, and the Internet, but with their powers combined they create something retarded.

 

[ReceiveAndAsk]

The other song with Carmilla and Vaggie doesn't make any sense either. "Don't fight for vengeance; fight for love". That's...literally been Vaggie all along. Her whole character is just about her loving Charlie and wanting to protect her. Maybe if we had focused on another aspect of Vaggie, we could have seen this so called vengeance. Maybe if Vaggie was more like her pilot counterpart, this arc would work for her because she does act more on her anger there. She does get aggressive. But I guess that would fall under the "fiery latina trope" and that's not good for current time.

Here's an idea for a Vaggie story line. Her whole schtick of 'protecting' falls apart when it's apparent that Charlie is several power levels above her. Since their relationship has not been explored or even more than superficially shown, this would actually create an interesting dynamic going forward.

This also made me think, what exactly is holding their relationship together? We need this shit for actual good character development. But since they're lesbians and not fags, I anticipate it will get no development. Perhaps just when it's required to move the plot forward, like at the Heaven trial.

 

[Seventh Star]

This also made me think, what exactly is holding their relationship together?

What is there to do? I've yet to see an emotionally compelling lesbian couple in any form of media. It's always like they just kinda fuck, are together, and that's it.

 

[Grand Duke Snowfall]

I’m sorry, but this was just too goddamn funny. Imagine one, getting comfort from a goddamn rapist character, and two, freaking out on twitter when someone hacks up said rapist character.

 

[Aero the Alcoholic Bat]

What is there to do? I've yet to see an emotionally compelling lesbian couple in any form of media. It's always like they just are kinda together, and that's it.

Fixed it for you.

Even in the realm of fiction, lesbian bed death is a thing.

Even in Hazbin Hotel, there's little reason to believe that Charlie and Vaggie are actually lovers except maybe Adam being overly crass about it.