Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[Retink Retunk]

That's basically what I'm saying though, hence 'assumed.' Charlie thought Lucifer didn't really care because of how rarely he would reach out to her when he's in fact an awkward but loving father whose depression got in the way of things. Now, if we were going off the pilot, which instead made Lucifer out to be the more distant parent who was implied to outright consider Charlie a failure, her having daddy issues would make more sense.

I don't dislike Alastor either but his characterization isn't the best. I would assume they'll reveal the reason later on, but as now, his hatred of Lucifer feels odd. Unless the logic is supposed to be that he dislikes those in higher power than him, which is also pretty dumb and heightens his Gary Stu attributes.

You know, it would actually be interesting if the writing was self aware enough to make the point be that sometimes, it's not that a parent is bad, it's that a child needs to be better at expressing their insecurities to the parent or understand what the parent(s) might be going threw that causes them to not be as proactive despite being caring parents. I think Malcolm in the Middle got this right, both parents in that show were massively flawed but the message was always that they still cared about the kids and the kids were kind of fuck ups as well. It was a very human show despite being surrealist in nature.

The best theory I heard so far was that Alastor's leash holder is Lilith and he hates Lucifer both because he's obligated to and because he's grown some actual affection for Lilith. Though as a whole Alastor has a very schizo characterization as he's made out to fit whatever role the plot needs him to fill instead of having a more defined personality and role. It's just bad writing really, or if not bad writing poor wrangling on whoever is supposed to be making sure the writing is on track instead of a self contradictory mess.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Hazbin Hotel is just so empty feeling. At least Helluva Boss has background characters so the world actually feel like a world that is lived in. If hell is so overpopulated, then where are all the people? We see them in the first opening song number, but then never again, unless they're needed for a plot point. You think there would be demons sleeping out on the streets because they're homeless, or many attacks on the hotel itself outside of plot points.

 

[Bluish Waif]

I have never understood how characters like Alastor and Lucifer are considered sexy.

Looks like you could use some help...

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I liked the series overall but it had too many characters, didn't develop the main cast enough and only about half the songs were decent.

Decent songs:

-Hell is Forever
-Stayed Gone
-Poison
-Loser Baby
-Hell's Greatest Dad (minus Mimzy)
-More Than Anything

 

[didelphigina]

I just realized something. Why hasn't Angel Dust not get reminded of his actions? He died as a mafia member, right? Why are we suppose to feel bad for a dude who possibly contributed to hundreds of murders and tons of other sins that Valentino could only dream of doing? All we know about Valentino is that he likes taking advantage of others for sexual gratification/exploitation and... well, that's it. We just know that and that he's a pimp.

Now, compare that to Angel Dust. Think about the loads of crimes Mafia members got away with doing for DECADES. Do you know how big of a movement them Italian-Americans were in New York City in the 20s-40s?

Have you SEEN the actions they've committed?

Spoiler: come on now.

It took only five minutes of thinking about that to completely change my feelings around Angel Dust and how we're suppose to feel for him. Nah, he's in hell for a reason. It's so funny how we only get mere references of him being in the mafia (accent and him using tommy guns) instead of getting any actual development regarding the kind of things he probably got away with doing back on Earth.

So yeah, an absolute nothingburger as usual as we all are meant to cry for sad gay spider boy who'll probably still suck on imp penises but on his own volition and not under Val's.

Dude's not getting redeemed. Gonna need a lot more than mere kindergarten activities and getting off the drugs for him to even be mildly redeemed, and by that I mean by only 5%. The 95% is actually learning the wrongs and facing your past. But I'm asking too much. This'll never get talked about at all. So yeah, another example of potential goods for Vivziepop to explore that'll never be seen the light of day other than just mere headcanons.

Hazbin Hotel is just so empty feeling. At least Helluva Boss has background characters so the world actually feel like a world that is lived in. If hell is so overpopulated, then where are all the people? We see them in the first opening song number, but then never again, unless they're needed for a plot point. You think there would be demons sleeping out on the streets because they're homeless, or many attacks on the hotel itself outside of plot points.

Mhmmmmmmhm, absolutely. That infuriates me SO MUCH, man. Like, overpopulation WHO? Overpopulation WHAT?! There's NO indication, not a SINGLE one that shows the overpopulation of hell. No crowded areas, no clumped up homeless shelters that're being shot via their own inhabitants every day, no dense areas where living there's a war zone no different from your average Middle Eastern war, none of that. The streets are literally empty during Husk and Angel Dust's duet. There seems to be a crowd during the "Stayed Gone" musical segment, but that's all there is. Nothing else, nothing more.

No demons sleeping out in the streets. No scenes of demons drugging themselves out beyond recognition that'd make the average fentanyl user have competition, their bodies barely moving and looking no different from zombies. Zombies who either got their just desserts of additional suffering or ones who never got the help they needed to rid of their drug addiction on Earth so they just continue the whole thing in hell, too.

It's so funny how a show that's still a web series have more active background characters that actually make the audience feel like they're really viewing the world of hell than a show being funded by the LARGEST CORPORATION IN THE WORLD.

VIVZIE HAS NO EXCUSES. No excuses.

 

[Bluish Waif]

No demons sleeping out in the streets.

There was that one demon begging on the street in Helluva Boss that Blitzo mocked in an early episode.

 

[Gender: Xenomorph]

Mhmmmmmmhm, absolutely. That infuriates me SO MUCH, man. Like, overpopulation WHO? Overpopulation WHAT?! There's NO indication, not a SINGLE one that shows the overpopulation of hell. No crowded areas, no clumped up homeless shelters that're being shot via their own inhabitants every day, no dense areas where living there's a war zone no different from your average Middle Eastern war, none of that. The streets are literally empty during Husk and Angel Dust's duet. There seems to be a crowd during the "Stayed Gone" musical segment, but that's all there is. Nothing else, nothing more.

A lot of people seem to misunderstand about the show:

The show is what the show TELLSyou it is, not what it shows.

Angel dust acts like an asshole but the show says he's a good guy? He's s a good guy.

Lucifer is good and caring, but the show tells us he's a bad father? He's a bad father.

Angel and Husk have no chemistry and barely interact, but the show tells us they're a gay couple? They're a gay couple.

Viv's word is law, and your eyes deceive you. It doesn't matter what you see or conclude, only what Viv says is canon.

 

[Tablet County]

A lot of people seem to misunderstand about the show:

The show is what the show TELLSyou it is, not what it shows.

Angel dust acts like an asshole but the show says he's a good guy? He's s a good guy.

Lucifer is good and caring, but the show tells us he's a bad father? He's a bad father.

Angel and Husk have no chemistry and barely interact, but the show tells us they're a gay couple? They're a gay couple.

Viv's word is law, and your eyes deceive you. It doesn't matter what you see or conclude, only what Viv says is canon.

I've heard of the Orwellion Retcon before, but never Orwellion Canon.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Won't let me reply to @didelphigina but first off, love the pfp. Secondly, the reason why we don't get anything about Angel's past is because it's not important to the grand plot Viv has. Oh, you thought the show about redeeming Sinners was going to be about redeeming sinners? Fuck no. It's about the war between Heaven and Hell, except not anymore cause that got kind of solved, so it's now about fighting the Vees. Though I'm sure that will be solved in the second season so we can deal with another overblown conflict.

 

[Roger Dennis]

Oh, you thought the show about redeeming Sinners was going to be about redeeming sinners? Fuck no. It's about the war between Heaven and Hell, except not anymore cause that got kind of solved, so it's now about fighting the Vees. Though I'm sure that will be solved in the second season so we can deal with another overblown conflict.

See, this is why I get upset whenever I think of the pilot. So much potential to follow its own plot and explore its own characters, all abandoned. Was this all Viv’s decision, or was it because of soulless corporations demanding differences (I think this is referred to as “executive meddling”)? If it’s the latter, then I can understand.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

See, this is why I get upset whenever I think of the pilot. So much potential to follow its own plot and explore its own characters, all abandoned. Was this all Viv’s decision, or was it because of soulless corporations demanding differences (I think this is referred to as “executive meddling”)? If it’s the latter, then I can understand.

While I'm sure there was some executive meddling (AKA why there's only eight episodes for the season) I blame the plot and character writing on Viv. This has been problem since her Zoophobia days. Helluva Boss is a good example of what Hazbin Hotel could have been like if it stayed on YouTube and that also has abandoned its initial plot. I've probably said it before but I will say it again; Viv may be a good animator and artist, but she's shit at writing.

 

[Aero the Alcoholic Bat]

See, this is why I get upset whenever I think of the pilot. So much potential to follow its own plot and explore its own characters, all abandoned. Was this all Viv’s decision, or was it because of soulless corporations demanding differences (I think this is referred to as “executive meddling”)? If it’s the latter, then I can understand.

If anything, the executives are probably the reason why it's not even worse.

 

[Cherry Eyed Hamster]

That's no excuse. The Brave Little Toaster used mostly stage actors for its voices, and its cast blows Hazbin's out of the water.

It also has way better songs:

If I ever see Hazbin Hotel uttered in the same sentence as The Brave Little Toaster again I’m going to fedpost.

 

[Slav Power]

If I ever see Hazbin Hotel uttered in the same sentence as The Brave Little Toaster again I’m going to fedpost.

I'll do you one better:
Hazbin Hotel is better than The Brave Little Toaster.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

I'll do you one better:
Hazbin Hotel is better than The Brave Little Toaster.

noice le epik troll m8

 

[Seventh Star]

It took only five minutes of thinking about that to completely change my feelings around Angel Dust and how we're suppose to feel for him. Nah, he's in hell for a reason. It's so funny how we only get mere references of him being in the mafia (accent and him using tommy guns) instead of getting any actual development regarding the kind of things he probably got away with doing back on Earth.

I would ask how the fuck there aren't any Goodfellas/Sopranos jokes but obviously these whores have never watched them. I think most people like Angel Dust because he is (was) an asshole and a criminal.

 

[didelphigina]

I would ask how the fuck there aren't any Goodfellas/Sopranos jokes but obviously these whores have never watched them. I think most people like Angel Dust because he is (was) an asshole and a criminal.

I still can't believe a character she's been working with for about or over a decade barely has any actual lore to him. All we know about him is that he's a stereotypical gay dude who lusts for sex toys and penises and wishes for sexual freedom against blind moth man with the balding head. All we know about him is that he loves Nuggets (demon pig). All we know about him is that apparently he romantically likes Husk despite these two barely ever interact with each other. All we know is that he used to be in a mafia and died from an apparent overdose, but there's nothing more TO IT.

I remember looking at Viv's speedpaint of him that was EIGHT years ago. EIGHT years ago. EIGHT years of potential high character development just to give us THIS? I've NEVER seen a group of characters be treated like this. Years of being worked on but has hardly any actual depth or traits that isn't just the traits we're TOLD to care about. How can a woman be so creative with her arts and how she expresses things yet be so godawful at giving continuity and characterizations that isn't the bottom of the barrel or to fulfill her fujoshi fantasies??

 

[AnOminous]

It took only five minutes of thinking about that to completely change my feelings around Angel Dust and how we're suppose to feel for him. Nah, he's in hell for a reason. It's so funny how we only get mere references of him being in the mafia (accent and him using tommy guns) instead of getting any actual development regarding the kind of things he probably got away with doing back on Earth.

He very well may have killed more people than Alastor did as a serial killer.

 

[Seventh Star]

I still can't believe a character she's been working with for about or over a decade barely has any actual lore to him. All we know about him is that he's a stereotypical gay dude who lusts for sex toys and penises and wishes for sexual freedom against blind moth man with the balding head. All we know about him is that he loves Nuggets (demon pig). All we know about him is that apparently he romantically likes Husk despite these two barely ever interact with each other. All we know is that he used to be in a mafia and died from an apparent overdose, but there's nothing more TO IT.

His dad and brother have surprisingly not appeared yet as far as I know, outside of I think one comic.

 

[Resident Knievel]

Looks like you could use some help...
View attachment 5930742

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I liked the series overall but it had too many characters, didn't develop the main cast enough and only about half the songs were decent.

Decent songs:

-Hell is Forever
-Stayed Gone
-Poison
-Loser Baby
-Hell's Greatest Dad (minus Mimzy)
-More Than Anything

Nope, still feel absolutely nothing for Lucifer. Probably the yeeyee ass whiteboy haircut he's got going on

 

[didelphigina]

While I'm sure there was some executive meddling (AKA why there's only eight episodes for the season) I blame the plot and character writing on Viv. This has been problem since her Zoophobia days. Helluva Boss is a good example of what Hazbin Hotel could have been like if it stayed on YouTube and that also has abandoned its initial plot. I've probably said it before but I will say it again; Viv may be a good animator and artist, but she's shit at writing.

If there's one thing she's good at, that's completely deviating the plot away to make way of things that didn't need an introduction so early on. It sucks a lot, too. Still so incredibly upset how much they destroyed Hellboss's premise. How do you take a concept that could've worked out so well for some melodrama that not even the average Indian melodrama would like?

How does one mess up a premise, a simple one at that, so terribly? It's obvious, of course, but I'd like to think of other reasons. No artist 180s a concept THIS badly for the sake of something else. Not even Star vs The Forces of Evil was this atrocious to turning its premise into some dumb relationship drama that had no real impact to the plot, world, and its characters.