Best fucked up books

[BrunoMattei]

Kind of, but I think poetry has a much lower barrier for entry in that regard than things like novels or short stories, because it's a lot easier for someone to break out into these types of "scenes" with performances of extremely low effort slam or beat poetry. With fiction there's more of a barrier for entry in that you have to actually write a novel or short story and get it published in some capacity to be taken seriously by those types.

I see it in all writing now. I think a lot of people never take a moment to figure out how it all sounds when you read it out loud. Because if you do, then you realize you sound like an asshole. Or at least most of them would.

 

[behavioral swamp thang]

Does she call out Dan Schneider at all in the book, or is it just more vagueposting that seems to happen a lot with him?

Vague posting. Worst she mentions him doing is wanting massages and telling her to watch her weight. Doesn't refer to him by his name.
I think she left him out because she wanted the focus to be on her relationship with her mother. I thought it was a good choice for the story; it will be interesting to see what she says down the road.

 

[Pomniman]

I see it in all writing now. I think a lot of people never take a moment to figure out how it all sounds when you read it out loud. Because if you do, then you realize you sound like an asshole. Or at least most of them would.

The overall quality of most writing has degraded severely, yes, but what I mean by "scenes" is localized yet entirely interchangeable subculture groups that embrace these types of degens via things like slam poetry performance nights at certain pretentious venues and low rent editors/agents who specialize in terrible generic lefty agitprop-themed contemporary American poetry. It's functionally the literary equivalent of shitty punk rock shows that take place at around 2 AM in urban warehouse venues where none of the equipment works properly half the time and most of the bands are worthless talentless dregs who are like 50-40 years late to the party.

 

[BrunoMattei]

The overall quality of most writing has degraded severely, yes, but what I mean by "scenes" is localized yet entirely interchangeable subculture groups that embrace these types of degens via things like slam poetry performance nights at certain pretentious venues and low rent editors/agents who specialize in terrible generic lefty agitprop-themed contemporary American poetry. It's functionally the literary equivalent of shitty punk rock shows that take place at around 2 AM in urban warehouse venues where none of the equipment works properly half the time and most of the bands are worthless talentless dregs who are like 50-40 years late to the party.

In my experience, I see that in all literary scenes now. Just came back from a reading a little while ago where a dude is doing his reading of a novel in progress and he blurts out "I stare at dog assholes." Which isn't writing at all, that's just Tourette's.

It could be chalked up to a lack of self-awareness and not having a "true & honest" inner circle.

 

[AnOminous]

Even that consideration could be suspended if there was something particularly fascinating about him beyond that, but I think the type of depravity he was engaged in was already employed as a muse of sorts in less obnoxious ways by various Frenchmen in the 1700s-1800s.

Or even earlier like François Villon in the 15th Century, a murderer, highwayman, and a top-notch poet. It wasn't until the 20th Century with Jean Genet that we saw an outright criminal be such a good French writer. I suppose Antonin Artaud came close, but both Villon and Genet were, at least at points in their lives, career criminals. Artaud was simply insane.

Super fun sci-fi space opera but with rape and human trafficking. I highly recommend.

Anyone have any opinion on Donaldson's Thomas Covenant stuff? It was also super-edgy (and amazingly involved rape as a central event in the series) but one thing I liked about it was Donaldson had a plotting method where he'd start the writing process from the conclusion and work backwards before starting actually writing, so he'd know what the plot was.

Plotting was definitely his strong point. The books were definitely fucked up, though, at least from a position of pure edgelordery. They weren't Samuel R. Delany's Hogg level of fucked up, but they were plenty fucked up. The protagonist was literally a leper (irl) who raped someone because when he ended up starring in the worst isekai ever, he just decided to rape someone because he didn't believe he was in reality but just dreaming, and then the consequences piled up from there.

In my experience, I see that in all literary scenes now. Just came back from a reading a little while ago where a dude is doing his reading of a novel in progress and he blurts out "I stare at dog assholes." Which isn't writing at all, that's just Tourette's.

Have you read Motherless Brooklyn by Jonathan Lethem? I wouldn't actually consider it fucked up, but it involves a detective with Tourette's trying to solve a murder (of his mentor). It's generally fairly dark but has some hilarious moments.

Of course maybe my sense of humor is weird because I had to put down Kafka's The Trial a couple times because I was busting a gut laughing.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Villon is another influence of mine. Act surprised. I never connected to Genet. Artaud I can write essays about.

 

[Pomniman]

In my experience, I see that in all literary scenes now. Just came back from a reading a little while ago where a dude is doing his reading of a novel in progress and he blurts out "I stare at dog assholes." Which isn't writing at all, that's just Tourette's.

It could be chalked up to a lack of self-awareness and not having a "true & honest" inner circle.

This is true, but again, with slam poetry and similar things the allure for those same types is that it takes like 5 minutes at most to crank out some shitty "poem" about wypipo being the devil and tranny niggers being the 21st century heroes of the proletariat or some similarly banal wankery and have a roomful of bearded cucks solemnly nodding as they screech it out. It's a shortcut to "underground" celebrity status in certain godawful armpits of various cities.

Though in both cases I'd say it's the end result of decades worth of pandering to increasingly retarded and degenerate pseudo-intellectual urban university educated audiences that have gone far beyond self-parody. I'm not even kidding when I say your man with the "dog assholes" was probably throwing red meat to furfags in the audience, some of whom were probably his friends and former or current classmates in some workshop somewhere.

 

[BrunoMattei]

I'm not even kidding when I say your man with the "dog assholes" was probably throwing red meat to furfags in the audience, some of whom were probably his friends and former or current classmates in some workshop somewhere.

That was exactly it. Then these circles wonder why they don't see many new faces.

 

[AnOminous]

Villon is another influence of mine. Act surprised. I never connected to Genet. Artaud I can write essays about.

I always found it fascinating that someone so atrocious could write verse so gorgeous. Same with Paul Verlaine and his child bride Arthur Rimbaud.

This is true, but again, with slam poetry and similar things the allure for those same types is that it takes like 5 minutes at most to crank out some shitty "poem" about wypipo being the devil and tranny niggers being the 21st century heroes of the proletariat or some similarly banal wankery and have a roomful of bearded cucks solemnly nodding as they screech it out. It's a shortcut to "underground" celebrity status in certain godawful armpits of various cities.

Mr. Show had my favorite mockery of slam poetry.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Have you read Motherless Brooklyn by Jonathan Lethem? I wouldn't actually consider it fucked up, but it involves a detective with Tourette's trying to solve a murder (of his mentor). It's generally fairly dark but has some hilarious moments.

I'll add it to the list.

 

[Herr Flick]

Eh, it’s a short fun read. It’s nothing that you don’t expect from a ‘bUT what iF we treat humans JUST like our MEAT’ shtick. But I do hope there to be better novels about the theme. I don’t need a vegan preaching how apathetic we are towards nature. Even Matthew Stokoe’s “Cows” got me thinking about an inherent, consumerist perversion more than Tender is the Flesh does. Given though, it’s also in the genre of extreme horror where everyone tries to out-gross each other.

Spoiler: Recommendation that is spoiled by being a recommendation here

Meat by Joseph DeLacey is what you are looking for. It was published about a decade earlier than Tender is the Flesh and several reviewers have commented that the latter seems to be a heavily inspired and badly politicized conceptual downgrade. I admittedly have never read TITF beyond a few pages because it seemed like a more preachy rewrite of a superior novel. Meat does not preach, although it draws parallels in a very intentional way for other purposes. You can interpret it like a vegan, sure, but that is the most shallow and least compelling option.

 

[Cat Phuckers]

Serial killer Dennis Nilsen's autobiography "History of a Drowning Boy" is definitely fucked up and gives you a pretty good look into the mind of the guy. His bizarre romanticization of death and the macarbre is very similar to how Yukio Mishima saw things, though obviously they went in very separate directions in life.

 

[Osama Bin Laden]

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would you have sex with a large cat

 

[Lokenstien]

Serial killer Dennis Nilsen's autobiography "History of a Drowning Boy" is definitely fucked up and gives you a pretty good look into the mind of the guy. His bizarre romanticization of death and the macarbre is very similar to how Yukio Mishima saw things, though obviously they went in very separate directions in life.

In that same vein, I was reminded that spree/serial killer Danny Rolling, the Gainesville Ripper, had written a book about his murders titled The Making of a Serial Killer: The Real Story of the Gainesville Student Murders in the Killer's Own Words. From what I understand the book is some bizarre three way dialogue between Danny, serial killer groupie Sondra London and Danny's literal demon Ynnad or Gemini in which he puts all the blame for the brutal murders he committed on this entity that possessed him.

 

[Dire Dire Cocks]

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I think the Catler DM chains would made for a much more fucked up and disturbing book than this.

 

[EmberstoAsh]

The Laws of the Skies by Grégoire Courtois; it's a French novel where a camping trip goes horribly wrong and a bunch of kids get demolished in a disaster domino of calamity. Generally a bleak read though there were parts that, I don't know if it was the translator's fault, but ended being so purple prose it ruined the narrative.

​

 

[National Defense Advocate]

One Soldier's War by Arkady Babchenko.
Arkady fought in both Chechen Wars, first as a conscript, then as a volunteer.
He goes into graphic detail the fucked up shit that happened to him on an almost daily basis, from finding random corpses of Russian paratroopers to watching his own comrades castrate an entire village to some random troops being tortured half to death by their own commander.

I've read many biographies written by soldiers and none are as harrowing or disturbing as this.
Throughout the entire book, he talks about how his life means nothing, how not even his own platoon leader cares whether he lives or dies. Early in the book, he's at an airfield taking piles of corpses out of helicopters and trucks in the summer, and it literally only gets worse from there.

 

[BrunoMattei]

I would also recommend The Eyes:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/10949760/The-Eyes-By-Jesus-Ignacio-Aldapuerta

A work written sometime in the late 90's that recounts cannibalism, genocide, pedophilia, and creates a new language that represents ultra violence.

Fun fact: the book was written by Simon Whitechapel. Same guy who wrote The Slaughter King (sadly, a terrible book). The guy is based in England and is a white supremist and tried to get to America on a raft but got deported.

 

[Lokenstien]

Fun fact: the book was written by Simon Whitechapel. Same guy who wrote The Slaughter King (sadly, a terrible book). The guy is based in England and is a white supremist and tried to get to America on a raft but got deported.

When I was reading the thread I remember you mentioning that the Jesus Ignacio Aldapuerta story was BS but didn't want to reveal the name of the actual author. Looking up Simon Whitechapel it doesn't seem he's afraid to have his name attached to particularly debaucherous books, do you know the reason why he wanted The Eye's to separate from his bibliography?

 

[BrunoMattei]

When I was reading the thread I remember you mentioning that the Jesus Ignacio Aldapuerta story was BS but didn't want to reveal the name of the actual author. Looking up Simon Whitechapel it doesn't seem he's afraid to have his name attached to particularly debaucherous books, do you know the reason why he wanted The Eye's to separate from his bibliography?

Most likely because he's in England and they have actual censorship laws. Plus it creates a myth that was very plausible and sounded real.