Debate Ishtar on ethics of school shootings, fathers, CPS

[The Last Stand]

Society clearly did fail him. That's not my opinion, that's what every mainstream media outlet has posited whether you like it or not.

Your parents failed you. You're a coward.

 

[Ishtar]

Lol. I have hit the jackpot today.

"Ur indian"
"your pp is a sumerian deity"
"its the character that matters not skin color"
"your weird and ppl don't like you"

I should make a bingo card.

Insane how everyone has ignored the substance of my point, focusing on my initial posts, which I've already admitted were overly cavalier and callous.

"Plenty of people are from broken homes and never shot up a school"

Yes, but a few who are do. Some people can handle hopeless dysfunction better, others cannot. In a healthy society with healthy families, a fully funded mental health system, and an appropriate use of CPS when things are bad-this would never have occurred. The parents would not have split, or the boy would not have lost contact with his siblings, or been evicted, or had the school been indifferent to bullying complaints(his actual father made).

I'm arguing in favor of a welfare state, a more compassionate society, and one that uplifts people and does not degrade them or punish them for their initial circumstances.

A society where boys like Colt Gray grow up in loving well adjusted homes, or if they don't, the state can intervene and place them in such homes.

Meaning...those people wouldn't be dead.

Which people have somehow taken to mean I am defending the shooter. Probably because they're stupid but I digress.

 

[Friend of Dorothy Parker]

So again, let me clarify what I think

Society failed this boy
This boy should be punished
He should not get life imprisonment-either something fantastical like 20 years hard labor(not in a jail cell), or a quick execution.

Because he is White, I do have sympathy for his frustrations and pain. Do I deny the harm he caused? No. Do I think he should be lionized or made into some sort of folk hero? No. Do I think we should intervene as a society with greater force to stop cycles of dysfunctional behavior? Yes.

IDK give the CPS more discriminatory power when it comes to child removal, make church attendance mandatory, require youth to spend time in some sort of civil service program, allow ostracized and bullied youth-codified "safe spaces" even at taxpayer expense.

Whatever.

I do not believe a teenager is as morally culpable as an adult. I could go off about brain maturity and the intense pressures of adolescence but I'm sure that would be boring. If I were the judge, I would let the boy choose-hanging, hemlock, or the guillotine.


This is precisely the retarded attitude that causes the White race's (obvious) decline. Abstract moral principles over the blood. Something the Jews and their subalterns use to deceive Whites every single time. Jews and blacks and Indians are (smarter) than Whites insofar as they understand the blood is all that really matters-virtue and individual character is ultimately trivial. If it's your blood its your obligation to defend. Niggers think this way, Jews think this way, Jeets and Chinks this way-and that is why they win.

I don't think anyone misunderstands what you think. And your re-casting of it isn't accurate. What you think is vile, and you're weak.

That was obvious, given the climate on A&N. I'm arguing with liberals on Twitter and I go here, and find I'm arguing with conservacucks who would have voted for Jeb Bush.

Incredible mismatch of expectations.

...and so quirky and unique!

So, are you going to go mask off, or what? As such a righteous warrior, surely you'll tell your potential bosses what's what and go on that world tour I recommended you.

Insane how everyone has ignored the substance of my point, focusing on my initial posts, which I've already admitted were overly cavalier and callous.

I responded to you about the muddled substance of your reply and your claimed compassion. Haven't seen a reply.

one that uplifts white people

Ftfy

and does not degrade them or punish them for their initial circumstances.

Bullshit. You want to hoard compassion for people whom you aspire to be perceived as. What do you think about Native kids? Do they get your compassion? What do you say about Jeffrey James Weise?

 

[Balanced Boomer]

You subhuman baboon. You literal nigger.

How dare you speak, you swarthy jungle monkey. How dare you open your big lipped, rim encrusted, menthol cigarette smelling mouth?

You are human trash, Diego Tyrone LeShawn de Maradona. Universally despised, derided and mocked. Your nationality and skin tone offers no hope to the world that South America can ever prosper. Crawl back in to the Brazilian jungle you came out of, you literal orangutan.

I hope you decide to sail your grandfathers skip to the Falklands and rape some sheep, as is in the negroes nature. It would still be the whitest pussy you ever had. Give Nigel and Robert a chance for some target practice, your sole use to the world. Argentinians obsession with a few windswept islands in the Atlantic is hilarious but sad. Coincidentally its the only worthwhile contribution Argentina has made to the medical field. The MUH LAS MALVINAS sentiment in the average negro Argentinian is both an early warning sign of autism in children, and early on set Alzheimer's in adults.

Take your black hairy fingers off your keyboard, and never talk about the human species again, you mockery of our supposed shared ancestor.. No amount of olive oil and wheat flour slabbed on your face every morning will make you white. It's about as delusional of an idea as your daydreams of European heritage.

You nigger.

You make Bolivia look like a beacon of civilisation.

You are the Baltimore of South America.

Go fertilise the pampas with you and your families corpses, its the best you can hope for in life. For the first time in your life, nigger, you have a job making food for beings vastly superior to yourself. Uruguayan cattle. Coincidentally, it would be the first time an Argentinian "man" provided for a family.

Die, Diego. No one would miss you. Except for Australian Aboriginals, who now would have no one to make them look good.

 

[Smegward]

a philosophy enabling attrocities is usually a major flaw in it

 

[Mojo Thief]

I guess you didn't follow the last month in the UK.

Clearly I misjudged this forum, I thought it was influenced by Pol and online racism, its literally conservatards and libertarians.

Then go the fuck back to /pol/ then. You'd be in good company with all of the gullible spastics who happily chug extremist slop from the glowies there

Here, people will catch on the fact you're an unironic incel with violent fantasies and a pseudo-intellectual autist with delusional extremist political beliefs and call you out on it.

Log off and touch grass. The internet is clearly not doing you any good.

 

[Osama Bin Laden]

I said he should get twenty years hard labor and then parole. Or...he should get a quick and clean execution rather than a life sentence.

lolololol that nigger should rot in prison

 

[MunsterCheeseJr]

Boom Town Rats - I Don't Like Mondays

 

[harmy.kook]

Here, people will catch on the fact you're an unironic incel with violent fantasies and a pseudo-intellectual autist with delusional extremist political beliefs and call you out on it.

Going off the track record of the Internet, @Ishtar probably ain't even White.

Probably some shitskin or some mixed blooded faggot like Fuentez

 

[WelperHelper99]

I'm arguing in favor of a welfare state, a more compassionate society, and one that uplifts people and does not degrade them or punish them for their initial circumstances.

The welfare state created his white trash ass you idiot! And yes I have boomer politics, probably the most out of anyone on the forum. This is not stormfront retard.

 

[MunsterCheeseJr]

This whole let's try teenagers as adults thing is getting retarded.

So if a 17 year old intentionally murders another person to be edgy, and he should be tried as an adult?

This 14 year old wasn't "goofing around" with the gun and it accidently went off. It isn't a case where he thought it wasn't loaded. You can't say he didn't understand what the gun did, or what death means. He killed a deer.

You can't say this was an issue that the people he murdered were a threat to him. He came packing on his 2nd day to school. The first day he didn't even stay the full day. He just enrolled.

So he shot two teachers. Maximum interaction was half of the previous day. One semi-retarded kid. I don't think the semi-retarded kid was hard and fast on bullying our Crack House Barbie. This was a brand new school for this kid. His freshman year in high school.

 

[The Last Stand]

Society failed the kids affected in his massacre since the FBI had tabs on him and decided to sit on it until something ACTUALLY happened despite obvious manifestation of what he could be capable of.

@Ishtar probably has a shrine of the Columbine shooters as inspiration of his bullshit philosophy of school shooter reform.

 

[Ishtar]

Given his mother called the school minutes before hand, I'm going to say my thesis was absolutely vindicated. This boy was failed, systematically.

To the point even his methhead mother was genuinely concerned something would go wrong, and the school ignored it. His father got him a gun after he got chatted by the feds, (incredibly stupid thing to do).

Like this boy needed an immediate psychological intervention, padded cell if needed. You can point to cases where the shooter was probably far more irredeemable than this, if you wanted to argue against what I've said here.

But it turns out the gist of my claim "this boy was failed top to bottom" was 100% true.

But all people could do was bitch about my initial race related posts and cavalier tone.

 

[Balanced Boomer]

You said you wouldn't give two fucks about this if the kid was a nigger or anything other than white and straight, but you're upset people focused on that?

 

[Friend of Dorothy Parker]

Given his mother called the school minutes before hand, I'm going to say my thesis was absolutely vindicated. This boy was failed, systematically.

To the point even his methhead mother was genuinely concerned something would go wrong, and the school ignored it. His father got him a gun after he got chatted by the feds, (incredibly stupid thing to do).

Like this boy needed an immediate psychological intervention, padded cell if needed. You can point to cases where the shooter was probably far more irredeemable than this, if you wanted to argue against what I've said here.

But it turns out the gist of my claim "this boy was failed top to bottom" was 100% true.

But all people could do was bitch about my initial race related posts and cavalier tone.

I addressed you directly several times on your various points. You've yet to provide any response. You just keep stating the obvious (obviously no one realized until too late what this kid was capable of and acted*) and trying to slink away from the real and only motivators underlying your comments.

No one is arguing that negligent (and worse) parents aren't part of the equation. His father has now been charged with second-degree murder, manslaughter, and child cruelty.

*mom calling the school minutes before he murdered innocent people does not displace responsibility onto the school (though I'd appreciate a cite to a source saying they "ignored" her concerns; what I read is that they went to find him but located a different kid with a similar name).

Multiple things can be true. Regardless of where and how failures may have occurred, however, nothing removes responsibility from him for what he did. Just like whatever contribution your family or being bullied made to your own early teen troubles leading to mandated therapy for all of high school doesn't remove responsibility from you.

Interesting of you to holler that he should have been provided psychological care**, when you yourself have spoken bitterly and dismissively of what was required of you. In fact, you have said therapy is useless.

** your own apparently extreme case aside, schools are rarely in a position to mandate what is generally deemed medical care outside the school environment. And why is it you think the school had reason to think he was dangerous?

Big disclosure here, I was forced to see a therapist for basically the entirety of HS(school order). If I saw that man now, I would be arrested on a first degree murder charge.

There are few individual people I hate with the same intensity as that bastard.

Therapy is shit, and its harmful.

Therapy is pretty much useless for men anyway, for women its glorified gossip circus/female affirmation seeking.

If you are a child or teen in therapy, you're there because rightly or wrongly your parents think you need to be corrected and "helped", the therapist is thus not going to take "your" side, he does not care about your perspective or feelings, you aren't paying him. (He'll be nice of course to win your trust, and kids being kids fall for that).

If you're an adult, what exactly are you in therapy for? Holding down a job? Show discipline and force yourself out of bed, getting a date/getting laid? If your a man and you need a therapist's counsel on this you're an incel, whether you identify with the movement or not, emotional or psychological distress-a therapist is going to give you advice that is extremely unlikely to be relevant to your pain, especially if its more of a spiritual or existential nature.

"I wish the world wasn't shit" or "what is the purpose of myself in the cosmos"-a therapist's answers will boil down too "whatever ensures your docility and passive submission to social norms".

The only instances I could see it being useful is addiction(basically to hold you accountable), marriage counseling, or specific religious counseling.

And yet now here you come with, "this boy needed an immediate psychological intervention" and "it wasn't his fault."

Which is it - psych help was an obligation of the school/parents and not being required to go into it makes this everyone else's fault, or "therapy is shit"?


And Ps - you still need it. Based on your own arguments about accountability, and considering you are a full-grown adult, you are derelict in not getting yourself some severe help.

 

[Ishtar]

I addressed you directly several times on your various points. You've yet to provide any response. You just keep stating the obvious (obviously no one realized until too late what this kid was capable of and acted*) and trying to slink away from the real and only motivators underlying your comments.

I have said I believe only White lives matter and support TND. This is a matter of public record. Yes, I was overly cavalier by bringing up this in an only tangentially related subject "the black kid doesn't matter". Okay? I judge the value of life on explicit racial grounds. Perhaps you think this is "pol" "kill behead kick" nigger shitposting and venting-but I do in fact mean it. I've gone over why many times. I made the mistake of bringing this up on that thread. I have conceded this point.

As for my therapeutic experience, I stand by my words. The entire experience was ugly and unpleaant and yes I did get into serious trouble, (there was a movement to get me expelled, after the incident in question, and even years later people clearly resented that I had not been). I was even told parents and students complained I was still there my sophomore year(well not told, but I got it from implication that complaints had been made).*

The difference is I never had access to firearms nor did I do anything actually violent. I appreciate the support network I had during those times, but I still found the impositions ugly and demeaning. There is no contradiction here.

You accuse me of being motivated by resentment or weakness, as if you knew me well enough to make such a claim. My political and social views are the product of years of learning, and unlearning while retaining a core commitment to things I hold most dear. My social and emotional life(such as it is), reflects my current circumstances. It may be so, when I see troubled young teens(at that age) I see myself, and thus I do feel empathy-genuine empathy.

Empathy for the mirror. Call that selective if you wish, but it is who I am, those who resemble me, or who I perceive as mirroring me, I have always felt the greatest pity for. This isn't something I extend and I've never denied it.

I have flaws, and I'll admit them here.

I am incapable of forgiveness, and hold grudges in perpetuity.
I am a vicious and cruel man whenever I perceive the opportunity.
I delight in watching people I dislike suffer, and have always found suffering at a distance entertaining the way an animal chase on the discovery channel is. Yes I do have a degree of sadism.
I am probably the most misanthropic person you'll ever meet.
I am hypocritical in various ways.

At the same time, for those I love, I love deeply, for that which I am passionate, I would burn the earth, and for that which I am loyal, no force on heaven or on earth would bribe my obeisance. I also love the truth.


You want to make this a reflection on me, and I will tell you honestly, I am not a kind or forgiving man. I am not easy to get to know, I burn bridges far more easily than I make friendships. I have always found notions of propriety to be silly morality is so often just pretty lies that covers true ugliness.

You judge me, as driven by weakness, but weakness of what? Exactly? When I endured far more vicious abuse in person than anyone here. When I endeavored to "run the race" and not simply slink away defeated when my own mother was begging me to just...give up.

Resentment of what? I mean I guess I resent that my life isn't a dream of golden baths and giant statues to satisfy my vanity but that's everyone.

If there is any virtue I aspire too, it is endurance. And it is honesty. Sometimes that means I'm cavalier and add the mild autism and I offend very easily. But weak? Only I suppose if you mean something entirely different than how I use the term.

Sincerely,

*It was a private school, so board of directors, the principal was sympathetic but the board wanted me gone, and basically my parents threatened blackmail and probably worse, if they did. I get the impression that family money was also used as an incentive(family donated to the school), and that many of my peers and their parents, while they rarely brought the incident up again, resented I had not been kicked out. I remember trying to shake hands with some girl's dad on graduation-I had never met him before but he knew me, and the sheer hate in his eyes was palpable-he refused to shake my hand. Because of course he didn't forget what I did. (Which I'll never tell here). I believe mandatory therapy was actually one of the conditions of my continuing enrollment(if not the condition).

I would say that experience amongst others has permanently colored my perspective on society, who I view as deserving of respect and scorn and what concepts like "fairness" or "justice" actually mean.

Regarding this boy in particular-well clearly everyone fucked up and no one was advocating for him. I did concede that therapy is sometimes necessary, even if it is a form of social disciplining and ultimately soft intimidation to induce conformity. I dislike it, but I understand it can be useful in truly extreme circumstances.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

Boom Town Rats - I Don't Like Mondays

Oh shit Ishtar really is Brenda Spencer!

 

[MunsterCheeseJr]

Speaking of Brenda Spencer, I looked up the case since I knew nothing about it other than it was the source of Geldof's song.

* Divorced parents
* Lived with her father.
* He took her hunting.
* Poor.
* Took illicit drugs.
* Shot up the elementary school across the street with a BB gun breaking out windows.
* Told her friends she wanted to be a shooter.
* Fascinated by shooters.
* Diagnosed with mental illness and deemed a suicide risk and was recommended to be committed to a psychiatric facility for a little while.
* This same year, within months of the BB shooting, THE FATHER BOUGHT HER THE SAME GUN SHE SHOT UP THE CHILDREN WITH FOR CHRISTMAS!

What the hell is up with this moronic parents?

As a side note, most of us are horrified by people like this. We want to know why and how to stop it. Meanwhile these freaks follow these cases because they are fascinated by the shooters and WANT to be one.

 

[Balanced Boomer]

Bro, just say you think society failed the white race or something. It's sad seeing you pretend this is about anything else to you.

 

[Sammich]

Call it tribalism but I'm not going to trash a White kid.

Everyone around that kid failed him, I am sad he didn't have someone around to help him. That said he's still a piece of shit for killing other kids his age. They didn't fuck him over, and they lost their lives for shit they had no part in. It's a pretty complex situation, and I can't say i don't feel bad for him, but still think he's a piece of shit.