Game of Thrones Thread

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Just finished my first watching of the show.

>Dany imports 100k brown rapists on horses to Westeros
>Destroys King's Landing

What did D&D mean by this?
Yeah, it's why it was funny that they spent all that time in the first half of the series portraying her as the progressive white messiah for a bunch of backwards brown people, since I would think they got a tip that this was the way her story was going to develop pretty early in the show's production.
 
Yeah, it's why it was funny that they spent all that time in the first half of the series portraying her as the progressive white messiah for a bunch of backwards brown people, since I would think they got a tip that this was the way her story was going to develop pretty early in the show's production.
It was bizarre, considering nearly every part of S1-2 Dany was showing how awful the Dothraki are.

If they didn't have show plot armor they'd get absolutely bodied by some pot bellied Stormlander in full plate.
 
It was bizarre, considering nearly every part of S1-2 Dany was showing how awful the Dothraki are.

If they didn't have show plot armor they'd get absolutely bodied by some pot bellied Stormlander in full plate.
Hell, considering the Dothraki had scythes that were already explained to be not sharp enough to pierce metal plate armor, which the Lannisters have for their common soldiers, as well as the fact that they had composite bows, realistically, from a Medieval standpoint, the Lannister and Tarly forces should've crushed the Dothraki like they're nothing. Jorah Mormont already explained that Dothraki blades are no match for men in steel plate, and we later saw it when another Dothraki faced off against Jorah and his blade did jack shit against Jorah's plate armor. The Lannisters and Tarly forces have a whole army with plate-armored dudes. Between that and the plate-armor dudes forming a shield wall before the Dothraki came, the battle should've been on Jaime Lannister's favor.

The Crusaders faced Muslim armies that had curved swords and composite bows, fighting on horseback, and all the Crusaders had for armor was chain mail, yet it was enough to protect from the former and shrug off the latter. So imagine if the Crusaders had plate armor.

Then when Dany shows up on dragonback, she's going to be the only one doing any real damage to Jaime's army, until she gets shot down by the Scorpion Ballista from Bronn, and realistically, the dragon would either crush her in the fall, or she gets shaken off mid-flight as the dragon falls chaotically, leading to her plummeting to her death.

Yeah, it's why it was funny that they spent all that time in the first half of the series portraying her as the progressive white messiah for a bunch of backwards brown people, since I would think they got a tip that this was the way her story was going to develop pretty early in the show's production.
That was always the way it was going, ever since Khal Drogo made a promise to her that he'd invade the Seven Kingdoms and put their son on the throne. Even if it didn't involve Dothraki, Dany was always going to invade the white man's land which is Westeros using the armies of Essos-which is far from homogenous and had a lot of brown people in it.
 
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Hell, considering the Dothraki had scythes that were already explained to be not sharp enough to pierce metal plate armor, which the Lannisters have for their common soldiers, as well as the fact that they had composite bows, realistically, from a Medieval standpoint, the Lannister and Tarly forces should've crushed the Dothraki like they're nothing. Jorah Mormont already explained that Dothraki blades are no match for men in steel plate, and we later saw it when another Dothraki faced off against Jorah and his blade did jack shit against Jorah's plate armor. The Lannisters and Tarly forces have a whole army with plate-armored dudes. Between that and the plate-armor dudes forming a shield wall before the Dothraki came, the battle should've been on Jaime Lannister's favor.
I attribute it to savage/nigger worship. GRRM fanfics the Mongols as the "destroyers of the west" despite the mongols historical advantage no longer being feasible in his setting
 
I attribute it to savage/nigger worship. GRRM fanfics the Mongols as the "destroyers of the west" despite the mongols historical advantage no longer being feasible in his setting
Mongols were winning battles against scale-armored Muslims and chainmail-armored European Knights. They did not face armies of men in plate armor, which would've nullified their weapons. And we see multiple times that the average Lannister man-at-arms has plate armor, not to mention the fact that we saw, firsthand, how a Dothraki blade cannot pierce through plate armor, when a Dothraki warrior fought against Jorah Mormont, and the latter's plate armor protected him from the former's blade.
 
Mongols were winning battles against scale-armored Muslims and chainmail-armored European Knights. They did not face armies of men in plate armor, which would've nullified their weapons. And we see multiple times that the average Lannister man-at-arms has plate armor, not to mention the fact that we saw, firsthand, how a Dothraki blade cannot pierce through plate armor, when a Dothraki warrior fought against Jorah Mormont, and the latter's plate armor protected him from the former's blade.
The thing is that the Mongols were Goodall stuff other than riding and shooting: they were keen to tech up when they recognized a gap in their capabilities (kidnapping Chinese siege engineers f/e) and being an entirely mounted army that could forage means they could quit any fight that wasn't going their way and didn't need to worry about supply lines (this is why they were able to successfully invade Russia in the winter.) As the battle of Carrhae demonstrated, plate armor isn't a magic bullet against horse archer armies: Yes, it's an important tool to help you not lose, but that's not quite the same as winning.

OFC the Dothraki seem to be entirely light melee cav for some fucking reason, so they give up the bulk of their mobility advantage because George is retarded.
 
Mongols were winning battles against scale-armored Muslims and chainmail-armored European Knights. They did not face armies of men in plate armor, which would've nullified their weapons. And we see multiple times that the average Lannister man-at-arms has plate armor, not to mention the fact that we saw, firsthand, how a Dothraki blade cannot pierce through plate armor, when a Dothraki warrior fought against Jorah Mormont, and the latter's plate armor protected him from the former's blade.
5,000 Stag Knights would absolutely murder a horde of Dothraki.
stefan-kopinski-baratheon-sentinels-cover-copy-5.jpg
 
The thing is that the Mongols were Goodall stuff other than riding and shooting: they were keen to tech up when they recognized a gap in their capabilities (kidnapping Chinese siege engineers f/e) and being an entirely mounted army that could forage means they could quit any fight that wasn't going their way and didn't need to worry about supply lines (this is why they were able to successfully invade Russia in the winter.) As the battle of Carrhae demonstrated, plate armor isn't a magic bullet against horse archer armies: Yes, it's an important tool to help you not lose, but that's not quite the same as winning.

OFC the Dothraki seem to be entirely light melee cav for some fucking reason, so they give up the bulk of their mobility advantage because George is retarded.
I can see the Mongols adapting crossbows with levers to kill men in plate armor. Even crossbows from the First Crusade can kill a man in plate armor. Which was why the scale armor of the Muslims was no match for Crusader crossbowmen.

However, the Dothraki do not adapt and continue to fight with the standard doctrine of ''speed defeats size'', which means that if they ran into an army of plate-armored soldiers whose armor is strong enough to stop Dothraki blades and arrows, they're screwed.

5,000 Stag Knights would absolutely murder a horde of Dothraki.View attachment 6403972
There you go. Those knights could soak enough damage from afar and then knock the Dothraki down from their horses.
 
I can see the Mongols adapting crossbows with levers to kill men in plate armor. Even crossbows from the First Crusade can kill a man in plate armor. Which was why the scale armor of the Muslims was no match for Crusader crossbowmen.

However, the Dothraki do not adapt and continue to fight with the standard doctrine of ''speed defeats size'', which means that if they ran into an army of plate-armored soldiers whose armor is strong enough to stop Dothraki blades and arrows, they're screwed
I think you're over-focused on the gear angle. You're not wrong, but there's more to a successful military campaign than Top Trumps comparisons of the warriors and kit. The Mongols were successful because supreme mobility meant they could pick their battles, and their ability to forage means they carried their logistics with them. Combining these two means that when invading, they could bypass enemy strongholds and go directly for the chewy center: why bother fighting plate armored Lannister footman when you can bypass them, kill their peasants, burn their crops, and move onto a softer target? Unless the Dothraki have some retarded Klingon code where they have to take fights they will absolutely lose.
 
I think you're over-focused on the gear angle. You're not wrong, but there's more to a successful military campaign than Top Trumps comparisons of the warriors and kit. The Mongols were successful because supreme mobility meant they could pick their battles, and their ability to forage means they carried their logistics with them. Combining these two means that when invading, they could bypass enemy strongholds and go directly for the chewy center: why bother fighting plate armored Lannister footman when you can bypass them, kill their peasants, burn their crops, and move onto a softer target? Unless the Dothraki have some retarded Klingon code where they have to take fights they will absolutely lose.
Logistically, the Dothraki would be spent after their first few months. They have to feed 100k horses in somewhere like the Stormlands; wooded areas that would be terrible to fight in. The Westerlands would be their bread and butter, but the amount of horses they bring outnumber likely the amount of horses ever mustered by the forces of Westeros.

Not to mention, they move from a hot and dry climate to a very different one. With all the changes, diseases, and attrition that would bring. There is some truth to what Robert said in S1 "The Dothraki will burn and pillage the small folk while we hold up in our castles" but at some rate that is unsustainable for the numbers they have.

When Mereen hired a company of Unsullied against a Dothraki horde (long before Dany had taken hold of them) the Unsullied beat them back. I think the Dothraki reputation is incredibly overblown, and that if the Wise Masters and slave cities didn't find it cheaper to pay them off instead of hiring sellswords, they would be a fraction of the power they are today.
 
Even if it didn't involve Dothraki, Dany was always going to invade the white man's land which is Westeros using the armies of Essos-which is far from homogenous and had a lot of brown people in it.
This would be a big part of the 'mad queen' arc. Even if Dany (or most readers) doesn't realize it her arrival is going to scare the piss out of most of westeros. Her army is composed of dickless automatons and savage nomads ferried over (probably) by Cthulhu worshipping reavers. All led by a messianic little girl with three living nukes.
Logistically, the Dothraki would be spent after their first few months. They have to feed 100k horses in somewhere like the Stormlands; wooded areas that would be terrible to fight in. The Westerlands would be their bread and butter, but the amount of horses they bring outnumber likely the amount of horses ever mustered by the forces of Westeros.

Not to mention, they move from a hot and dry climate to a very different one. With all the changes, diseases, and attrition that would bring. There is some truth to what Robert said in S1 "The Dothraki will burn and pillage the small folk while we hold up in our castles" but at some rate that is unsustainable for the numbers they have.
The Reach could probably feed the Dothraki for a while, if you're willing to let the westerosi cities starve. Which is a sacrifice Daenerys may have to make.
When Mereen hired a company of Unsullied against a Dothraki horde (long before Dany had taken hold of them) the Unsullied beat them back. I think the Dothraki reputation is incredibly overblown, and that if the Wise Masters and slave cities didn't find it cheaper to pay them off instead of hiring sellswords, they would be a fraction of the power they are today.
Achktually that was Qohor.
 
Not to mention, they move from a hot and dry climate to a very different one. With all the changes, diseases, and attrition that would bring. There is some truth to what Robert said in S1 "The Dothraki will burn and pillage the small folk while we hold up in our castles" but at some rate that is unsustainable for the numbers they have.
This is true. Dorne, of all places, would probably be the most natural fit given that the environments are relatively the same. How far they cam stretch their supplies is dependent on how well they can forage, and we know George doesn't do logistics very well.
When Mereen hired a company of Unsullied against a Dothraki horde (long before Dany had taken hold of them) the Unsullied beat them back. I think the Dothraki reputation is incredibly overblown, and that if the Wise Masters and slave cities didn't find it cheaper to pay them off instead of hiring sellswords, they would be a fraction of the power they are today.
This is why I'm mainly using what I know of actual successful cavalry armies here, not whatever retarded pseudohistorical pastiche George has in mind. The number of things wrong here, starting with the existence of the Unsullied, makes any attempt at realism fall flat.


Mind you, if TWoW comes out (it won't) and it turns out that the Dothraki are a paper tiger, that would be in keeping with Gurm's inability to play anything straight, because boring effective pragmatism leaves less time for bizarre sexual mutilation and sociopathic rapists.
 
I think you're over-focused on the gear angle. You're not wrong, but there's more to a successful military campaign than Top Trumps comparisons of the warriors and kit. The Mongols were successful because supreme mobility meant they could pick their battles, and their ability to forage means they carried their logistics with them.
Do you think the Dothraki are smart enough to do that? On Qohor, they kept smashing into the Unsullied lines despite the fact that it wasn't working. I'm pretty sure the Mongols would've taken the hint the moment they failed the first two times and tried to find a way around. The Dothraki charged in 18 times, and they failed. To the point where the surviving Dothraki surrendered, and the new Khal who took over after Khal Temmo and his sons and bloodriders died had all the surviving Dothraki warriors waltz up to the city gates and cut off their braids, tossing them at the feet of the Unsullied as a symbol of respect and surrender.

Also, military kit is important. That's half the reason the Crusaders won the initial battles. To the point where the Muslim world had to unite behind a Kurd and toss endless waves of slave-soldiers at the Crusaders just to win.

Combining these two means that when invading, they could bypass enemy strongholds and go directly for the chewy center: why bother fighting plate armored Lannister footman when you can bypass them, kill their peasants, burn their crops, and move onto a softer target? Unless the Dothraki have some retarded Klingon code where they have to take fights they will absolutely lose.
We saw that in Qohor, they did. They kept charging in for 18 times despite the fact that the Unsullied were holding them off and beating them back. That led to Khal Temmo losing most of his forces, including himself and all his sons and bloodriders. This catastrophic loss happened despite the fact that the Dothraki had 20,000 riders, and the Unsullied were a paltry 3,000. They could've easily sent 10,000 men to distract the Unsullied while the other 10,000 broke through the gates and sacked the city. They did not. They focused their entire force on continuing their suicidal charge, until they could no longer do it and surrendered.

Looks like the Gardeners weren't the only boneheads to lose their entire line in a single battle.
 
Also, military kit is important. That's half the reason the Crusaders won the initial battles. To the point where the Muslim world had to unite behind a Kurd and toss endless waves of slave-soldiers at the Crusaders just to win.
Its an important thing, to be sure. But not the only one.

Looks like the Gardeners weren't the only boneheads to lose their entire line in a single battle.
So like every other bit of Gurm's writing about military nuts and bolts, it's retarded and makes no sense. So it doesn't matter what actual successful historical examples did, because that's just not how things operate in Westeros.
 
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Its an important thing, to be sure. But not the only one.
Of course. But it is an important aspect.

So like every other bit of Gurm's writing about military nuts and bolts, it's retarded and makes no sense.
Basically, yes. Things like the Dance wouldn't have worked out as they did if it was written by a competent military historian. Somehow the side with more lords, more impregnable castles, more naval and air power, loses the war. That makes no fucking sense whatsoever. This is what happens when a social activist tries to write a lore. There's holes all over it that people who study military tactics and history can see.

So it doesn't matter what actual successful historical examples did, because that's just not how things operate in Westeros.
Westeros, Essos, they're all stupid.

Like seriously, am I supposed to believe that an empire as large as Old Valyria wouldn't have dragons on VOLANTIS? You know, that city made by Valyrian colonists that tried to rebuild the empire after Valyria went down? The Targaryens are likely not the only noble family who's gotten in trouble with the ruling class before, you'd think their dragons would settle elsewhere on Essos or maybe even Westeros. Hell, you'd think Volantis would already have its own dragon air force, considering it was founded by Valyrians as its ''first daughter'', and as the Valyrian Freehold's ''first daughter'', you'd think they'd have their own dragon-riders who settled there after its founding.

Saying that there's no dragon-riders on Volantis is like saying there's no Spaniards in Mexico or the Philippines. Which makes no fucking sense considering those are Spanish colonies.

Then you have the Dothraki, the terror of Essos after Valyria fell, and all they know how to do is to charge in like Leeroy Jenkins for over a dozen times even when that tactic fails. And when they run out of steam before the enemy does, they chop their braids off and surrender. That's it. All they know how to do is to charge or give up. Even though races like the Huns and the Mongols were adept at tactics, feints, and all sorts of strategies. GRRM's versions of them have all the tactical acumen of a drunk fratboy.
 
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I was working on the road out of hotel's when season 6 and seven dropped, I bought all the dvd's and half of them work because of scratches and re watching. . . . .

Got to say Hbo makes good shows, Boardwalk empire I loved, Rome. All the yt woke grifters never talk about good shit.
 
I hate Daenerys. Ned should never have called off the assassination.
It's another plot hole. The second that it was known that a 14-year-old little girl had three live dragons there would armies descending on her to steal them. Her having her dragons right out in the open and the Maesters not killing them and her is also ridiculous knowing their own history with trying to kill the fully grown dragons. Or others not stealing her dragons and running them on horseback to the other side of the continent before she can reclaim them never made any sense. Especially with how often her dragons are flying around freely and are unprotected.

Tywin flat out cannot wait to steal the Valyrian steel sword from Ned to reforge it for his own house. Yet three live dragons are ignored by the entire world. Ned not wanting Daenerys killed when she was not a threat made sense. But once she begins traveling in public with dragons it would have drawn the attention of the entire world.
 
It's another plot hole. The second that it was known that a 14-year-old little girl had three live dragons there would armies descending on her to steal them. Her having her dragons right out in the open and the Maesters not killing them and her is also ridiculous knowing their own history with trying to kill the fully grown dragons. Or others not stealing her dragons and running them on horseback to the other side of the continent before she can reclaim them never made any sense. Especially with how often her dragons are flying around freely and are unprotected.

Tywin flat out cannot wait to steal the Valyrian steel sword from Ned to reforge it for his own house. Yet three live dragons are ignored by the entire world. Ned not wanting Daenerys killed when she was not a threat made sense. But once she begins traveling in public with dragons it would have drawn the attention of the entire world.
Don't forget how she got her Eunoch army, which was to sell one of her dragons to get an entire city's army (a city that is constantly in risk of Dothraki, pirate and slavers raids) and then had the army kill everyone rich there. An absolutely insane turn of events that somehow worked.
 
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