日本語を勉強しよう! Let's Learn Japanese! - Everything and anything that can help with learning Japanese language

[Abbadon's Gate]

I would like fan translate stuff in the future, so trying to translate something in a way that both sounds good and makes sense to other people is good practice.

That's interesting. Part of the reason why I'd like to learn is because somehow I just don't trust modern American Media companies to not fuck with the translations of things. I also really like learning about cultures and histories and language is a huge part of perspective.

Ultimately though, my biggest reason for wanting to learn another language is I would like to at least visit Japan someday. Its weird having this place that's culturally been a huge part of my childhood from music to anime to video games, and I don't really know much about it.

If I liked visiting it, I wouldn't mind considering moving there someday. The amount of work I already do is pretty similar to the Japanese work week, and if I was living outside of the US my wife could afford to stop working and be the home maker she wants to be. Likewise it seems like a decent enough place to be if you just wanna be left alone to work and live your life and not have to deal with other people pushing their bullshit on you constantly.

 

[Ms. Dia Gnosis]

I'm very glad to see more people join us. I wanted to keep the spoilers exactly so people can join in at any time.
As a minor reply you can't learn the language through translating because you have to know the language to an extent as a prerequisite. The idea behind this challenge was to force people to look up more words and possible expose them to different grammar structures that they've never seen before. Obviously I'm not a teacher so I can't vouch for the effectiveness but it's certainly fun.

Anyway, here's my version

Spoiler

The burning building -- turned out to be a supermarket. It's surrounded by those motorcycles from earlier. There's... ten, no, twelve of them.
I think it's fair to assume that somebody in the Supernarket launched the attack. The question is, who was it?... It's probably Shirley.

 

[Ms. Dia Gnosis]

Feeling good about the first half, not so good about the second half.

Spoiler: my translation

Apparently, the burning building is a supermarket. Those bikes surround the scene. There are 10, maybe 12 of them. Someone inside the supermarket probably set traps for an attack. However, the question is, who could that someone be...? It's probably Shirley.

Spoiler

>Those bikes surround the scene.
I feel like this doesn't really convey 例のバイク well. The narrator has clearly seen those motorcycles before, possibly during the attack that was mentioned before, so I think you're missing that link from there.

>There are 10, maybe 12 of them.
You're right, meaning-wise but I think there's a difference between guesstimation like in your version and the implication in the raw. To me the pause after 数は…… reads as the implication of counting. "There's...(quickmath 1, 2, 3...)10 (wait no I just saw the other two), no, 12 of them".

>Someone inside the supermarket probably set traps for an attack.
攻撃を仕掛ける can also mean to plan an attack/launch an attack, pick a fight with somebody.

>However, the question is, who could that someone be...?
I don't think you need that however there when it's not even in the text.

Spoiler: Translation

燃え盛っている建物は──どうやら、スーパーのようだ。周囲を、例のバイクが取り囲んでいる。数は……十騎、いや十二騎か。

The building on fire--seems to be a supermarket, one way or another. Surrounding it are those same bikes. There's... 10, wait, 12 of them.

スーパーの中に誰かがいて、攻撃を仕掛けたと見るのが妥当だろう。問題は、それが誰かということなのだが……。恐らくシャーリーだろう。

There's somebody in there, and I think it's fair to assume they're the attacker. But, the question is who's in there... It's probably Shirley, isn't it.

On another note, I don't think translation is a great way to learn a language.

Very good translation

Spoiler

You already did the work with "seems to be a supermarket", why do you need a "one way or another" there?

Otherwise pretty solid and I'd say better than mine lol

Mind if I join in? At this point in my life listening to anime is overshadowing my ability to read prose. Unsure stuff is in gray.

Spoiler

The burning building is apparently a supermarket. In the vicinity there are bikes. There are... ten, no, twelve. Someone's in the supermarket, and it's reasonable to assume that it's a planned attack. The question is who would have done this... it's probably Shirley.

Spoiler

While in the vicinity isn't exactly wrong, the text does say that the building is *surrounded* by the motorcycles. (Bike was right too, obviously).
From the context, you can assume that the subject of the second part of the first sentence is the same as the first part. Whoever is in the supermarket planned the attack.
You're not wrong about the last sentence, though a more accurate translation would be "who is it?" (The ringleader most likely).

Bro this one seems so much harder. I got shit wrong last time but I recognized a lot more of the Kanji T.T

Spoiler: Translation

"The Supermarket seems to be burning. It is surrounded by motorcycles. There seems to be 10...not 12 of them.

The *shooter is in the Supermarket. The attack begins...


*Shooter - Might be an attacker of some other sort. Jisho.org is telling me its shooter/archer but that doesn't make too much sense given the Supermarket appears to be on fire and not undergoing a shooting.

I'll be honest after this I got kinda lost in the sauce. Eager to see how well I did and what the answer actually was.

Spoiler

The supermarket is burning is kinda different from the burning building turned out to be a supermarket. One is implying that they knew it was a supermarket, while the second is implying that they saw a burning building first but after getting close they saw that it was a supermarket.

This is more of an English issue, but "there are 10 not 12" is very different from "there are 10, no, 12." Former means that there are 10 bikes while latter implies that there are 12.

>The *shooter is in the Supermarket. The attack begins...
You're missing lines again. There are three sentences in total here.

スーパーの中に誰かがいて、攻撃を仕掛けたと見るのが妥当だろう。問題は、それが誰かということなのだが……。恐らくシャーリーだろう。
1.
> スーパーの中に誰かがいて、
There's somebody in the supermarket and
>攻撃を仕掛けたと見るのが妥当だろう
>and it makes sense to assume they're the attacker/picked the fight/started the fight.
2.問題は、それが誰かということなのだが……
The problem is, (we don't know) who could it be?
3.恐らくシャーリーだろう。
It's probably Shirley.

Any questions, comments, thoughts?

 

[quisquiliae]

Part of the reason why I'd like to learn is because somehow I just don't trust modern American Media companies to not fuck with the translations of things

This is probably beyond the scope of this thread but dubs are long dead and subs get worse every year, it's not even the political stuff most of the time just bizarre translations I manage to catch more and more now. It wasn't the impetus for me to learn but is certainly a side benefit.

If I liked visiting it, I wouldn't mind considering moving there someday. The amount of work I already do is pretty similar to the Japanese work week, and if I was living outside of the US my wife could afford to stop working and be the home maker she wants to be. Likewise it seems like a decent enough place to be if you just wanna be left alone to work and live your life and not have to deal with other people pushing their bullshit on you constantly.

I don't want to get too off topic, but I would say to temper your expectations.

Any questions, comments, thoughts?

Which light novel did this come from?

Spoiler: discussion

1. "From earlier" or "The same" from the other submissions are both good additions that make more sense, ultimately I got too hung up on the context the bikes would have been seen in before and just left it at "those".

2. Thinking of it as in the moment counting is a good idea, I'll have to pay more attention to that.

3. I should have looked at it as one long compound instead of trying to split it up, this is one of the weaknesses of using Yomichan to scan things.

4. I added the however as a filler transition word to replace だが. Its probably unnecessary and I've misinterpreted the particles at the end.

 

[Baraadmirer]

Any questions, comments, thoughts?

I almost forgot what 建物 was because almost any time I hear someone refer to a building they almost always use ビル.

 

[Hustlin' Thick]

The idea behind this challenge was to force people to look up more words and possible expose them to different grammar structures that they've never seen before.

I get your idea, but I think it would be more efficient if you just read more instead. Translation requires a decent understanding of the text but it's more akin to creative writing.

Spoiler

You already did the work with "seems to be a supermarket", why do you need a "one way or another" there?

It felt more like a "building almost burnt to a crisp, barely recognizable" kind of situation.

 

[Ms. Dia Gnosis]

Which light novel did this come from?

This time it was Kemonogari, volume 4. I choose both the volume and the text at random. Can't tell you the exact page because I copied the epub. text from my phone and the page numbers change on e-reader.

I almost forgot what 建物 was because almost any time I hear someone refer to a building they almost always use ビル.

Very mildly related but one of my little amusements is reading normal japanese words with the loanword kana on top.

I get your idea, but I think it would be more efficient if you just read more instead. Translation requires a decent understanding of the text but it's more akin to creative writing.

Spoiler

It felt more like a "building almost burnt to a crisp, barely recognizable" kind of situation.

You do make a fair point.

As for the context, I went back for more info so here's a few paragraphs before the text I posted.

Spoiler

冷たく、ただ氷のように冷たく。彼女は機械的に銃を撃った。使用した銃弾は七発。最後の最後で、一発で殺し切れずに二発撃った。

死体の山だった。彼らの武器から唯一使える手榴弾を漁りたい、という気持ちがあったがそれ以上に、シャーリーは時間が惜しかった。

「急いで離れないと──」

シャーリーは空気を切り裂くような独特の音に、身を凍りつかせた。
（ロケットランチャー……!!）

無我夢中で走り出す。後方で爆発が起き、衝撃波が彼女を吹き飛ばした。

§ § §
セシリアを抱えて走りに走った。当然、通りを走るような愚かな真似はしない。先ほどのフックワイヤーで建物の屋根に上り、そっと様子を窺う。

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

I'm probably gonna take a break from the translations. I clearly am not at your levels yet and my time would be better spent getting to that point rather than playing from behind.

 

[quisquiliae]

I get your idea, but I think it would be more efficient if you just read more instead. Translation requires a decent understanding of the text but it's more akin to creative writing.

Now that you say it I see the creative writing comparison. I guess a lot of the thinking really is on the English side trying to make it sound good, rather than understanding the Japanese in it's own context.

 

[Sea Hag Henderson]

I'd like to give a qualified recommendation to the yomu yomu app for reading Japanese. I'm trying to brush up after a 20-year lapse after college. The grammar has always stuck in my head, but vocabulary and especially kanji has gone out the window. It has lessons that are short readings similar to the tadoku books, organized in such a way that each reading will reinforce previous lessons and add new words. Furigana can be turned on and off, you can press on a kanji or compound for a translation or tap on a section on the top of the screen for a translation of the full line of dialogue (most of the earlier lessons are in the form of dialogues), and can be played as audio.

The caveat is that they recently posted an announcement about memberships beginning in December or January, they say some if it will remain free, so I can't tell if they're going full jew, or just 50-75% jew. But as is, I'm enjoying it.

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

I'd like to give a qualified recommendation to the yomu yomu app for reading Japanese. I'm trying to brush up after a 20-year lapse after college.

This app has been extremely helpful. I added it once you recommended it, and even at a really early beginner level like myself the content is easy enough to engage with.

 

[Alex Hogendorp]

I know like nearly 1000 words and can form long sentences in Japanese. Once you get used to the word order and have a good enough vocabulary, it occurs to me that learning how to speak Japanese is relatively easy. The hard part is the writing.

 

[Judas Connor Moon]

Omae wa mou shindeiru.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Learning Japanese would be neat and all, but it seems like a monumental task.

I'm probably not really gonna do it but I'm curious so here's a stupid question, is it easier to learn to only read Japanese rather than speak it? And in either case, is it a good idea to start with memorizing their alphabet and then read the Japanese equivalent of picture books (like "The ball is red" type shit)?

 

[Ms. Dia Gnosis]

Learning Japanese would be neat and all, but it seems like a monumental task.

I'm probably not really gonna do it but I'm curious so here's a stupid question, is it easier to learn to only read Japanese rather than speak it? And in either case, is it a good idea to start with memorizing their alphabet and then read the Japanese equivalent of picture books (like "The ball is red" type shit)?

Depends on what you want to read. You'll learn hiragana and katakana faster and easier but the Japanese people take all their school years (and sometimes more to learn Kanji). In my honest opinion, learning how to speak Japanese is easier than learning how to read and write it.

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

Learning Japanese would be neat and all, but it seems like a monumental task.

I'm probably not really gonna do it but I'm curious so here's a stupid question, is it easier to learn to only read Japanese rather than speak it? And in either case, is it a good idea to start with memorizing their alphabet and then read the Japanese equivalent of picture books (like "The ball is red" type shit)?

I'm going to throw my two cents in on this. In my experience learning as an American with no access to Japanese people outside of the Kiwi Farms, learning to read has been easier, but I think if you were to measure it on a graph over time, eventually it would get surpassed by speaking.

For example: if you're just a dude alone in a room like I am a good portion of the time, there's not really any reason to speak Japanese, and when you try the words are very hard to string together. However you can easily learn 30-40 new words a week to read with very minimal effort. Reading is also going to be the best way to practice speaking, because you likely won't have anyone who speaks the language to talk to, reading aloud is going to be your best way to get used to making the sounds you need to make in order to actually speak.

 

[Alex Hogendorp]

Here's another interesting Japanese verb conjugation database. It's also useful for learning Kanji too.
https://www.japaneseverbconjugator.com/

 

[Kayfabe]

I would like fan translate stuff in the future, so trying to translate something in a way that both sounds good and makes sense to other people is good practice. Another option may be to submit daily journal entries, or translate from English to Japanese, but output is significantly harder.

That's interesting. Part of the reason why I'd like to learn is because somehow I just don't trust modern American Media companies to not fuck with the translations of things. I also really like learning about cultures and histories and language is a huge part of perspective.

I'm probably not really gonna do it but I'm curious so here's a stupid question, is it easier to learn to only read Japanese rather than speak it? And in either case, is it a good idea to start with memorizing their alphabet and then read the Japanese equivalent of picture books (like "The ball is red" type shit)?

I'm very glad to see more people join us. I wanted to keep the spoilers exactly so people can join in at any time.

Greetings everyone!, I am another Kiwi joining in this thread to start my path in learning the Japanese language, but above all, much like @quisquiliae and @SSj_Ness (Yiffed), my goal is to be able read, write, and translate Japanese texts, not to speak the language in person, so of course, I am beginning in hard mode, but practice makes perfect I guess, I am currently starting to learn Hiragana and Katakana, I will also catch up on this thread and discuss about what I learned, and if my method of learning is correct or unhelpful.

And about what I want to read, write, and translate in Japanese, for most that it is no secret that the majority of the userbase of this forum are anime fans who also love Japan, its culture, and society, my main focus is more about Japanese books and novels about history, wars, and religion, and I am also into more mature Seinen manga and anime, instead of the more hyper-popular Shounen ones that contain Furigana to aid younger readers in identifying the Kanji.

And I am guessing that the more mainstream and easy-for-gaijin-to-digest Shounen manga, light novels, and even films also contain a more easy-to-understand language and dialogue for young people, instead of the history books and more serious Seinen works for adults that have a more formal writing and no Furigana, the latter of which I plan to eventually be able to properly read and translate, as I spend the next few years learning the language.

 

[quisquiliae]

Greetings everyone!, I am another Kiwi joining in this thread to start my path in learning the Japanese language, but above all, much like @quisquiliae and @SSj_Ness (Yiffed), my goal is to be able read, write, and translate Japanese texts, not to speak the language in person, so of course, I am beginning in hard mode, but practice makes perfect I guess, I am currently starting to learn Hiragana and Katakana, I will also catch up on this thread and discuss about what I learned, and if my method of learning is correct or unhelpful.

Welcome aboard! It looks like you have already started in the right place with Hiragana and Katakana. I'm sure you have seen the resource list at the beginning of this thread and have already plotted your course, but I would like to take this opportunity to once again shill Cure Dolly's Grammar Series it helped me a lot when I found it and made Japanese so simple compared to Tae Kim's Guide that I was struggling with at the time.

I would also like to say, although you are interested primarily in reading and writing, don't discount the benefit of audio immersion. I convert streams and whole anime seasons to audio and listen to them passively at work and I think that gives me a real boost in overall comprehension, it definitely did at the start. Being able to cross correlate a Kanji with native pronunciation as soon as you see it goes a long way. Take it from someone who has dabbled in Latin, having a wealth of spoken language content is a real blessing.

And I am guessing that the more mainstream and easy-for-gaijin-to-digest Shounen manga, light novels, and even films also contain a more easy-to-understand language and dialogue for young people, instead of the history books and more serious Seinen works for adults that have a more formal writing and no Furigana, the latter of which I plan to eventually be able to properly read and translate, as I spend the next few years learning the language.

One thing that can really help with both motivation and enjoyment of the process is to pick a "challenge" project that you can do a little bit each day that can be fun and remind you why you are learning. I usually use video games, I can have fun with the language and not be too serious about it while refreshing my resolve to learn more. Even the most familiar of games have a kind of jovial tourist feel when they're in a language you barely know, especially if they have a social aspect. For you this could your favorite Seinen manga or a book you've been interested in, stuff that is above your level but inspires you to learn more.

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

but I would like to take this opportunity to once again shill Cure Dolly's Grammar Series

I would like to back this statement specifically. I recently started doing Cure Dolly's grammar series and it has been monumentally helpful, especially because she assumes you have 0 knowledge in the beginning.

A big problem I've had with a lot of youtubers these days is they assume you just automatically know the difference between は and が or the fact that が can be invisible. Or they have a lot of useful lessons but they're not arranged in any particular order.

Cure Dolly was kind enough to organize her lessons into playlists which sometimes do link off into other related videos but its much easier to keep up with.

discount the benefit of audio immersion

You can also find a lot of Japanese News Livestreams for Audio Immersion, which, while more formal than everyday speech is still useful when you're starting out. I try to listen to at least an hour a day in addition to supplemental reading, a dedicated Kanji learning system like Wanikani, and a more freeform vocabular acquisition process like Anki where you build your own deck.

And I am guessing that the more mainstream and easy-for-gaijin-to-digest Shounen manga, light novels, and even films also contain a more easy-to-understand language and dialogue for young people,

I think that's probably a solid plan eventually, if you're really starting at zero I would look at words you use in your everyday life commonly and learn those first. In my case it was words like:

Clean, Work, Office, Dog, Walk, Cat, Car, Drive, Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner, Eat, Drink, Drink (verb), etc. Things that are applicable to you that you can use commonly throughout the day will help you to be able to think about Japanese in Japanese while you're carrying out your day to day and also encourage you to think about how to string them together into sentences.