Hurricane Helene / Invest 97L

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you can cut very very long roads into a forest in pretty short time. a forest isnt that dense in trees and you only need 4 meters, thats one tree every couple of hundred meters. but well sling loading a pallet of water and MREs and airlifting it is much faster and alot less demanding.

Tell me you've never been to Appalachia without telling me you've never been to Appalachia.

Most of these roads are in the positions they're in, because that was quite literally the only position the engineers at the time of building could put them in. Most of these towns have one road in and one road out, because that's physically the only places you can feasibly build a road. These roads have been cut into the terrain and there is no other feasible way of cutting another road without significant engineering - which isn't fucking possible, because the mountains are still suffering from constant landslides.

Couple that with the Green Hell that is Appalachia this time of year and, no, it isn't 'fast' to cut a trail through these mountains. You don't know what you're talking about, friend, and you need to stop pretending that you do. You couldn't cut a path right now to fit two dudes on Trials bikes through right now, much less a fucking Unimog on portals.
 
While @Stoneheart is a precious retard, he's not exactly wrong. Some of you are acting like building roads in the mountains is some lost Roman technology.

Random video from a medium sized contractor from eastern Kentucky out there getting shit done as proof it's not impossible.
It's doable yes I won't argue that, but building a road as part of the immediate disaster relief is a retarded idea. That German man thinks you can just slap a road down here, no big deal

what road.jpg

The road used to be where the guy is standing, now it looks like a hiking trail. Whatever road they make has to start from literally zero. They need to cut a new path out of the mountain. There isn't a wide and gently sloped bank you can dig out in a few hours and it goes on like this for miles in some places. As others have said earlier in the thread there are probably rural places that will literally be abandoned and never built back up, because why would the government invest so much just to connect a few dozen mountain people to the nearest town of a few hundred?
 
Tell me you've never been to Appalachia without telling me you've never been to Appalachia.

Most of these roads are in the positions they're in, because that was quite literally the only position the engineers at the time of building could put them in. Most of these towns have one road in and one road out, because that's physically the only places you can feasibly build a road. These roads have been cut into the terrain and there is no other feasible way of cutting another road without significant engineering - which isn't fucking possible, because the mountains are still suffering from constant landslides.

Couple that with the Green Hell that is Appalachia this time of year and, no, it isn't 'fast' to cut a trail through these mountains. You don't know what you're talking about, friend, and you need to stop pretending that you do. You couldn't cut a path right now to fit two dudes on Trials bikes through right now, much less a fucking Unimog on portals.
It's fucking embarrassing more people in this thread aren't getting this. It's literally been explained several times before, and is the same reason the flooding is so bad.

For the dumb fucks who still can't put two-and-two together, Appalachia has shitty roads because news flash, it's fucking Appalachia, and there's fucking giant, heavily forested mountains everywhere. Why hasn't FEMA gotten to people yet? Because all the roads are destroyed, and even if they weren't, they'd still be a shitty, hard-to-navigate mess because it's fucking Appalachia, and it's literally bumfuck nowhere.

And no, you can't just make new ones because 1) APPALACHIA IS A FUCKING MOUNTAIN RANGE COVERED IN A MASSIVE FUCKTON OF TREES. AS SOON AS YOU'D GET THROUGH ONE MOUNTAIN THERE'D ONLY BE DOZENS MORE AFTERWARDS. THAT'S THE REASON THERE'S SO FEW ROADS, AND THEY ALL JUST GO THROUGH THE NATURAL CREVICES AND VALLEYS.

and 2) THAT WOULD BE FUCKING EXPENSIVE AS HELL, AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU URBANFAGS LARPING AS COUNTRY FOLK REALIZE THIS, BUT APPALACHIA IS POOR AF. WE DON'T EVEN HAVE THE MONEY TO TAKE CARE OF THE ROADS WE ALREADY HAVE. WHAT THE FUCK MAKES YOU THINK WE COULD EVEN AFFORD TO BUILD ALL THIS SHIT IN THE FIRST PLACE?!

Listen, I have no doubt FEMA is a shitty, corrupt organization, but they're not fucking killing white people on purpose because of "muh diversity". It's because of everything that's been said above.

Tl;dr: What makes Appalachia such a bad place for floods like this is the same reason that help is struggling to get there. It's the fucking geography itself, and that's a lot harder to change than some of you think.
 
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While @Stoneheart is a precious retard, he's not exactly wrong. Some of you are acting like building roads in the mountains is some lost Roman technology.

Random video from a medium sized contractor from eastern Kentucky out there getting shit done as proof it's not impossible.
Where is the Army at? They have all those bridgelayer vehicles and tons of explosives to clear out paths. Oh yeah, they're busy hanging out in the sandbox like when Zionist governor Bill Lee of Tennessee shipped out some of the Tennessee National Guard two days before the hurricane! Sure would've been nice for those people in the mountains who got fucked over to have some extra help.
THAT WOULD BE FUCKING EXPENSIVE AS HELL, AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU URBANFAGS LARPING AS COUNTRY FOLK REALIZE THIS, BUT APPALACHIA IS POOR AF. WE DON'T EVEN HAVE THE MONEY TO TAKE CARE OF THE ROADS WE ALREADY HAVE. WHAT THE FUCK MAKES YOU THINK WE COULD EVEN AFFORD TO BUILD ALL THIS SHIT IN THE FIRST PLACE?!
Because the people in the cities are paying for it, and I am too since your state takes federal highway funds. States and federal government pass out money to build roads. That is their job as long as we pay taxes for it. Of course, that's optimistic given we're governed largely by Moviebobists, but it's how it works and people have every right to be mad at not getting what they are literally entited to.
 
I also really don't know why people expected this situation to improve over a week's time, FEMA or no FEMA. Insomuch as supplies are available, it has improved and infrastructure is starting to bounce back but this is going to be a years long recovery process for the worst hit areas and there may well be some areas that take a decade to recover. New Orleans still has abandoned houses, empty lots and boats that got thrown far inland by storm surge just sitting around and it's been almost twenty fucking years. Some smaller mountain towns, the people who previously lived there may well just decide to hang it up and go elsewhere. The entire topography of this area has changed permanently due to this storm and you can't just build roads wherever the fuck you feel like it, like it's SimCity or some shit, especially not when due to torrential rain [a thousand year flood by most estimates] and loss of tree roots has undermined the integrity of the very ground you walk on.

I get that people want to believe that the government, FEMA, churches or private NGOs can move mountains but you could make it a legitimate blackhole of funding at this point and still accomplish very little here. I'm also on the side that it is incompetence on the federal government's part rather than malice or anything planned. Our institutions have been crumbling for years now [thanks to outside subversion] and filling crucial spots with retards isn't helping matters any, there is plenty of incompetence to go around, we don't need to start ascribing shit to outright malice yet. And before the weather control retards come out of the woodwork, no, you cannot "steer" or influence a hurricane in any meaningful way and anyone who thinks you can fundamentally misunderstands the immense amount of energy a hurricane carries with it. You could drop ten high-yield nukes into the eye of a hurricane and detonate them in a daisy chain and the fucking thing wouldn't even shudder. There is absolutely nothing humanity or the government can do to even remotely affect these forces, it would be like throwing a fucking rock at the Sun.
 
While @Stoneheart is a precious retard, he's not exactly wrong. Some of you are acting like building roads in the mountains is some lost Roman technology.

Random video from a medium sized contractor from eastern Kentucky out there getting shit done as proof it's not impossible.
While rebuilding mountain roads aren't impossible you have to understand that we're talking about Appalachian roads and an area the size of Germany affected that needs to be rebuilt not just with federal interstates but US and state highways as well as county and mountain roads.
Don't forget the interstate needs to be 4 lanes of divided limited access highway traffic at minimum and preferably 6 lanes.
 
When does the snow start? A month? Then what?
The snow isn't going to be a problem until late December at the earliest.
Snow isn't really a problem, at least in the Asheville area. The only risk of snow is at higher elevations than the cities around here generally are and even then that doesn't usually happen until early February. Generally even if it does snow, it's very little and not enough to stick around by the time the sun comes up.
 
You could drop ten high-yield nukes into the eye of a hurricane and detonate them in a daisy chain and the fucking thing wouldn't even shudder. There is absolutely nothing humanity or the government can do to even remotely affect these forces, it would be like throwing a fucking rock at the Sun.
A few dozen of the largest nukes, like Tsar Bomba size 25 megaton nukes, might have the ability to manipulate a hurricane by the sheer amount of wind and heat it creates which if detonated in the right place and over the course of a day could steer a hurricane or maybe weaken it by increasing wind sheer because that's a few percent of a hurricane's wind energy. Check the amount of joules. Obviously the whole world would know about it and radiation would get everywhere, but it's possible. It's something like 10-20 times the energy from every nuke ever detonated plus the entire current nuclear arsenal, but is possible.
 
Snow isn't really a problem, at least in the Asheville area. The only risk of snow is at higher elevations than the cities around here generally are and even then that doesn't usually happen until early February. Generally even if it does snow, it's very little and not enough to stick around by the time the sun comes up.

You’re right - when it comes to Asheville. Places like Boone are a much different story.

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I'm also on the side that it is incompetence on the federal government's part rather than malice or anything planned. Our institutions have been crumbling for years now [thanks to outside subversion] and filling crucial spots with retards isn't helping matters any, there is plenty of incompetence to go around, we don't need to start ascribing shit to outright malice yet.

Sufficient incompetence is indistinguishable from malice, and should be regarded as such. If the purpose of a system is what it does, then this response is nothing less than a willful attempt to kill people. Whether a doctor kills a patient from incompetence or is willfully negligient only matters in how fast they yank the license.

FEMA literally abandoned Bat Cave because of a "Road Closed" sign. The past week has tested my ability to not fedpost every fucking day.
 
Where is the Army at? They have all those bridgelayer vehicles and tons of explosives to clear out paths. Oh yeah, they're busy hanging out in the sandbox like when Zionist governor Bill Lee of Tennessee shipped out some of the Tennessee National Guard two days before the hurricane!
Nigger, the National Guard is there, active military is there, the Army Corps of Engineers is there, the Coast Guard is there, everyone is there. As I've said before, everyone involved has put in absolutely herculean efforts to accomplish tasks people thought would take weeks or months in a matter of days. More people wouldn't help. If it was a matter of manpower, it would be easy. If it was a matter of money, it would be easy. If it was a matter of tools, it would be easy.

The problem is logistics. You have thousands of people out of supply. Any LOCs to them have been washed out, and worse, the beds for the roads cannot be reused. This isn't a matter of just repairing or relaying the road where it was, because literally millions of tons of rock and soil have shifted to alter the physical geography of the region. How do you get supply to those people? Helicopters and pack animals. There's no vehicle that can traverse that terrain. Even tracked military vehicles would get totally stuck, because you're dealing with miles and miles of off-road thick, sticky mud and thousands of downed trees. Okay great, you have the helicopters, where are they flying out of? Airports? Not enough space. Parking lots? Not enough space. You're now cutting entire new LZs just for space to land, load, unload, refuel, and have maintenance done. Helicopters are thirsty bitches, and need a lot of fuel. Where are you getting that fuel? Trucked in on highways. Where are you storing that fuel? God knows. Where's the maintainers? On site? You need to take over local lodging or set up a bivouac, because helicopters generally take between 3 and 5 hours of maintenance per flight hour. So if you want a fuck ton of choppers, you need a fuck ton of maintainers, which means a fuck ton of food for the maintainers, also trucked in. Now you need...

Are you starting to understand the absolute logistics clusterfuck we find ourselves in? Every person is a mouth to feed, refugee, survivor, resident, or rescuer. Even the residents of Asheville that have stayed are arguably hampering the rescue effort because every Walmart truck load of consumer goods for them is one less truck full of rescue goods. I'm not saying they should've left, or are bad for staying, or anything like that, but I am saying they contribute to this extremely fucked algebra we find ourselves doing. Western North Carolina is consuming tens of thousands of tons of supply a day for the rescue effort alone, and adding more mouths to feed does nothing if there is not a job for those hands attached to those mouths to be doing. Ask yourself, did Cousin Cleetus and Uncle Jimbo that drove their Chevy up to the mountains for an afternoon to chop up logs with their chainsaw fill up in Asheville before they headed out? Do you think that tank of gasoline could've been used more efficiently if they had coordinated with a charity, NGO, or government organization to maximize the amount of labor and supply that could've been moved with this tank of gas? Do you realize that that tank of gas is probably being trucked in from fucking Louisiana or New Jersey? This is the problem with random people showing up to "help out," and why emergency management coordinators exist. In that area, there are precious few LOCs open, and that area is producing absolutely nothing, but consuming an absolute fuckload, and every bit of that consumption is because an army of methed out long haul truckers are pulling 20 hours a day.
 
And it wouldn't be one or two, it'd be hundreds; you know, hauling relief for the tens of thousands of people further isolated by the hurricane.
how much do americans need to eat? also have you guy heared of mobil water filters and wood fired stoves?
I bet they are flying in water bottles instead of machines because FEMa are idiots.

Couple that with the Green Hell that is Appalachia this time of year and, no, it isn't 'fast' to cut a trail through these mountains. You don't know what you're talking about, friend, and you need to stop pretending that you do. You couldn't cut a path right now to fit two dudes on Trials bikes through right now, much less a fucking Unimog on portals.
you only need to cut everything thats thicker than an arm, everything else can be mowed down.
trees are not that dense because they need space to grow.

Although given the terrain and circumstances in Appalachia, even Unimogs can only do so much. Distances are just different in the US compared to Germany.
It would be more work but not impossible if you cant airlift for some reason. I still dont get why they arent doing a real airlift, the US should have more than enough Air assets in the area to lift 1000 tons a day and we would see pictures and film of it all over the internet because there is no better propaganda picture than a chinook with a pallet of cheesepuffs underneath

The road used to be where the guy is standing, now it looks like a hiking trail. Whatever road they make has to start from literally zero. They need to cut a new path out of the mountain.
those hill dont look to bad. also that muddy "riverbed" looks more than passable so you can criss cross for a emergency road.
you could drive in the bed, but that would take muuuch longer than just cutting a path.
 
Ask yourself, did Cousin Cleetus and Uncle Jimbo that drove their Chevy up to the mountains for an afternoon to chop up logs with their chainsaw fill up in Asheville before they headed out? Do you think that tank of gasoline could've been used more efficiently if they had coordinated with a charity, NGO, or government organization to maximize the amount of labor and supply that could've been moved with this tank of gas?

I hear what you're saying about how these resources are used, but in the immediate aftermath when local charities are trying to unbury themselves because their basements are flooded, Red Cross and Salvation Army are nowhere to be found, and you have private citizens running their Soviet-era helicopters to do SAR because there were *maybe* a half dozen chinooks running supply drops to metro areas and NO ONE was getting to the outlier communities yet, those Cleetus' and Jimbo's running chainsaws and their jerry-rigged helicopters meant the difference between life and death to these people, especially in the first 48 hours when we already knew the government response was at best, delayed.

The problem with hyperfocusing on the efficiency of these responses is that they always focus on the largest populations and city centers , when you needed these redneck outliers to do what they could to get to the outskirts. Especially since when you get to these mountain towns, even if their physical address says "Chimney Rock", it's not like everyone is densely populated around the city hall, they're usually a mountain over or 20 minutes away from the town center. And I'd wager that's the majority of people who live in really rural areas like these: for every 20 families you have that live in the city proper, there's probably at least twice as many in the surrounding hills. So could there have been optimizations? Probably. But we can talk about that when the truly pantshitting, embarrassing response from the government and larger orgs are addressed.

And just to be crystal clear, I'm not saying that it was only for the local yokels that people survived - there are linemen, SAR and emergency response teams from all over (including fucking Canada) who came in to help as soon as they could, and it's been amazing to see what they've been able to do. But telling people to fill out a form first before they try to find the diabetic grandmother who's hucking rocks to spell out SOS in her backyard is not the answer.
 
I hear what you're saying about how these resources are used, but in the immediate aftermath when local charities are trying to unbury themselves because their basements are flooded, Red Cross and Salvation Army are nowhere to be found, and you have private citizens running their Soviet-era helicopters to do SAR because there were *maybe* a half dozen chinooks running supply drops to metro areas and NO ONE was getting to the outlier communities yet, those Cleetus' and Jimbo's running chainsaws and their jerry-rigged helicopters meant the difference between life and death to these people, especially in the first 48 hours when we already knew the government response was at best, delayed.
I want to be very clear, the ones and twos, the Good Samaritans, the neighbors coming together, they saved lives, undoubtedly, and have done likely tens of millions of dollars of cleanup themselves. They are genuinely good people, and God bless them. I will never say it is a bad idea to try and help anyway you can, especially, as you say, in the early hours or days after a disaster before official help or charities arrive.
The problem with hyperfocusing on the efficiency of these responses is that they always focus on the largest populations and city centers , when you needed these redneck outliers to do what they could to get to the outskirts.
This is absolutely a legitimate concern. You're right that any official response is going to be utilitarian, especially in the earliest phases. There's absolutely not going to be a push to clear out County Road 57 when I-40E out of Asheville is washed out. In my opinion, this is where your local yokel with his square body pickup and grit really shine. There are areas that have virtually only been served by these types, outside of maybe a chopper dropping off a pallet of supplies.
But telling people to fill out a form first before they try to find the diabetic grandmother who's hucking rocks to spell out SOS in her backyard is not the answer.
This is where it gets sticky. I want locals and unaffiliated volunteers to continue to help, especially these underserved areas, but my largest concern, as you can see in the post you quoted, is supply and throughput. As I said, manpower alone is not the problem, so just showing up with some new Timberlands and a smile, ready to work, while a kind gesture, isn't necessarily helping.

It is my opinion that if you're by yourself or working in a small, unaffiliated group, you should have a plan, "we will take X route to Y location to accomplish Z task," and you should pack enough supplies and gasoline so that you won't be a drain on the resources already there. If you do these two things, which I think are fairly simple, you're in nobody's way and you're doing God's work. If you do not have a plan, such as you're not a local to the area or don't have the tools or expertise to say, pick a spot and start clearing trees, it is my opinion that your best bet is to call up one of the charities or organizations that you trust (I will again shill for Samaritan's Purse, because 1. They are local and 2. They helped rebuild my dad's house when it got blown away by a tornado,) and ask them where they need help. A lot of the most in demand work is being done far away from the devastation and they are disgustingly understaffed. For instance, food banks and clothing donations. They need people to take huge, pallet sized donations of say, dry noodles, literally just a 1000lbs box of noodles, and put them all into single 4 person family meal bags. They need people to take the thousands and thousands of shirts, pants, blankets, and sort them by size and gender. Sure it's not glamorous, you're not saving lives by jumping out of a helicopter with an insulin needle to save diabetic grandma, but you are doing absolutely vital work to keep this massive relief machine going.

Anyway, I hope this follow up post was more clear. I'll get off my soap box.
 
So, in the midst of various spergouts I might have missed it, but do we have a updated death toll? I guess most, if not all, of the small hollers and creeks have been reached by now?
 
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So, in the midst of various spergouts I might have missed it, but do we have a updated death toll? I guess most, if not all, of the small hollers and creeks have been reached by now?
Weather Fatalities on X hasn't updated over the weekend. But this the latest from 2 days ago.
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Here's a news vid I just saw of a community that made a makeshift bridge so they can use ATVs to move supplies.
 
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