Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

"Wooden acting" and "stilted dialogue" don't matter; different people behave and speak in different ways. Why should people from a different galaxy filled with different languages and species talk and act like us?
Except Anakin literally came from an Order that suppressed things like emotion and attachments. So no shit, he's going to act wooden and awkward when confronted with both.
"It's supposed to be shittily acted" is always one of the worst ways to possibly defend a movie. Stylistic suck is still suck. Just because you understand what they were trying to do doesn't mean nor replace that they also fucked that delivery up.

They aimed for stoic and repressed; they got wooden, and this is still at its core entertainment for us.
 
I did, because Yoda said Luke was too young. Dude's barely an adult and Yoda was telling him to get lost. So that naturally told me that Jedi recruits tend to be far younger.
before the prequels I thought that to be Yoda just coming up with some bullshit to make Luke show that he wanted to really fight for it
 
Except Anakin literally came from an Order that suppressed things like emotion and attachments. So no shit, he's going to act wooden and awkward when confronted with both.

As for Kenobi being more mellow and empathetic in the OT, notice that it happened after the Jedi Order fell, so he probably had a lot of time to think about it and not be a stuck-up.
Anakin acted wooden before he joined the Order. Mediocre dialogue and bad acting.
 
"It's supposed to be shittily acted" is always one of the worst ways to possibly defend a movie. Stylistic suck is still suck. Just because you understand what they were trying to do doesn't mean nor replace that they also fucked that delivery up.

They aimed for stoic and repressed; they got wooden, and this is still at its core entertainment for us.
But Anakin isn't supposed to be stoic; he's supposed to be awkward, unsure of himself, the Dark Side finding him vulnerable and easy to manipulate. So yes, they did deliver on the premise.

How the fuck is that supposed to work if he's stoic? If he's stoic, like Kenobi, then he wouldn't fall to the Dark Side. He'd react to the deaths of his mother and Padme with some sadness, but he'd suck it up and press on through despite all that loss just like Yoda did.

Anakin acted wooden before he joined the Order. Mediocre dialogue and bad acting.
Nope. He was hopeful and kind, a bright-eyed naive boy.

before the prequels I thought that to be Yoda just coming up with some bullshit to make Luke show that he wanted to really fight for it
Nope. Yoda had way more options to fuck with him other than the age thing.
 
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"It's supposed to be shittily acted" is always one of the worst ways to possibly defend a movie. Stylistic suck is still suck. Just because you understand what they were trying to do doesn't mean nor replace that they also fucked that delivery up.

They aimed for stoic and repressed; they got wooden, and this is still at its core entertainment for us.

From what other posters have said, I can agree that what was in Lucas' mind was a traumatized and shell shocked boy who never got over having everything taken from him.

However I think that view misses the point that either Lucas' vision couldn't exist in the real world, or he wasn't up to being able to guide his actors there. (and given his dialogue I think people know side I fall on there). And Lucas' own in ability to recognize that and course correct on a project he had total creative and executive control over is squarely on him.


Someone mentioned before Lucas' decline from RotJ. I don't think its a decline I think i no one was really able to tell Lucas "No" appropriately after ESB. Lucas works best as an idea guy and while the spergy dribble of Midochlorian world nonsense we've been pitched in the soymedia in a desperate attempt to try to make Abrams' & Ruin's Fuckfest look better by comparison was awful, I legit think if they'd listened to Lucas and let him be a junior parter the Sequels would have still been bad but not completely fucked as there.
(Though I've gone over why I think that the sequels being fucked and purposely burning down the OT to remake A Woke Hope was always the plan, so I don't even know if that what if is worth more than a passing thought)
 
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Wow, who knew Anakin was so progressive.
Anakin probably just gave ''her'' a pep talk so ''she'' would be comfortable getting blown to bits on the battlefield.

Someone mentioned before Lucas' decline from RotJ. I don't think its a decline I think i no one was really able to tell Lucas "No" appropriately after ESB. Lucas works best as an idea guy and while the spergy dribble of Midochlorian world nonsense we've been pitched in the soymedia in a desperate attempt to try to make Abrams' & Ruin's Fuckfest look better by comparison was awful, I legit think if they'd listened to Lucas and let him be a junior parter the Sequels would have still been bad but not completely fucked as there.
THAT IS THE BEGINNING OF THE DECLINE. Many people who criticized the Prequels cited the fact that nobody was willing to question Lucas, and ROTJ showed that in spades. People should've asked questions over how easily the Empire falls apart and how rushed it all feels, how Vader seems out of character from one movie to the next. But they all nodded and said yes because they couldn't question Lucas.

Also, the concept for the midichlorians was introduced in that movie too-even though they didn't have the word for it. Literally, Luke rocks up to Leia and says that she's their ONLY HOPE if he bites the bullet-because she popped out of the right birth canal and their shared father is Darth Vader, so his genetics makes her powerful in the Force. Making her their only potential Force-user outside of Luke in the films.

People who bitch about midichlorians in TPM but who didn't realize the concept for it was introduced over a decade ago are the pinnacle of blind, stubborn idiocy. If you consider midichlorians to be a bad thing, then you should at least be honest enough to note that ROTJ introduced that concept of genetics being tied to Force power.

ROTJ is still a great movie; I love it. But you have to recognize that it was when Star Wars went from a dark science fantasy to GI Joe in Space for kids.
 
What is silly is Senator Amidala railing against the Military Creation Act despite having fought for Naboo personally. Had the Republic have a military, the Trade Federation invasion wouldn't have happened in the first place.

Its a classic question, "If the Republic need an army, wouldnt that mean that its goal for diplomacy has failed?"

Its not a black and white issue but the Republic sells itself as the ultimate diplomatic solution to all of the galaxy's problems (and we clearly see the issues with that, maybe the Outer Rim wouldnt be such a shithole).

And the flaws of the system, corrupt apathy of the elites and growing disdain of the people were perfect for a Sith to manipulate the strings behind the scenes
 
From what other posters have said, I can agree that what was in Lucas' mind was a traumatized and shell shocked boy who never got over having everything taken from him.

However I think that view misses the point that either Lucas' vision couldn't exist in the real world, or he wasn't up to being able to guide his actors there. (and given his dialogue I think people know side I fall on there). And Lucas' own in ability to recognize that and course correct on a project he had total creative and executive control over is squarely on him.


Someone mentioned before Lucas' decline from RotJ. I don't think its a decline I think i no one was really able to tell Lucas "No" appropriately after ESB. Lucas works best as an idea guy and while the spergy dribble of Midochlorian world nonsense we've been pitched in the soymedia in a desperate attempt to try to make Abrams' & Ruin's Fuckfest look better by comparison was awful, I legit think if they'd listened to Lucas and let him be a junior parter the Sequels would have still been bad but not completely fucked as there.
(Though I've gone over why I think that the sequels being fucked and purposely burning down the OT to remake A Woke Hope was always the plan, so I don't even know if that what if is worth more than a passing thought)
Gary Kurtz was not involved with ROTJ, he was there previously to tell George "No". His absence can be clearly seen. Kurtz does not get the credit he deserves for the SW films (and other films). He was very creative but very grounded.
 
Gary Kurtz was not involved with ROTJ, he was there previously to tell George "No". His absence can be clearly seen. Kurtz does not get the credit he deserves for the SW films (and other films). He was very creative but very grounded.

Not to give into the retarded 'force is female' disinfo about how Marcia "Saved Star Wars" but the edits that she (AND OTHERS) put into ANH and were able to convince George to go with greatly improved the movie. They added real weight, tension and stakes to the battle of Yavin which would have just been "the random ass battle of the death star" if the orignal cut had been kept. Han wouldn't be as memorable if he wasn't re-edited to be showing up just in the nick of time instead of just joining the good guys.
Lucas' vision needs a filter and at bare minimum someone to write his dialogue.

Lucas needed someone, or several someones, to reign him in and polish off some of the sperg from his works. ANH got that. ESB got that. RotJ got that in part but not enough - he was big enough that no one could really tell him no. And the prequels he had no one to keep him on the ranch. But you look at stuff like the clip of him looking at art samples for Grievous and you can tell he still had the eye.
 
Not to give into the retarded 'force is female' disinfo about how Marcia "Saved Star Wars" but the edits that she (AND OTHERS) put into ANH and were able to convince George to go with greatly improved the movie. They added real weight, tension and stakes to the battle of Yavin which would have just been "the random ass battle of the death star" if the orignal cut had been kept. Han wouldn't be as memorable if he wasn't re-edited to be showing up just in the nick of time instead of just joining the good guys.
Lucas' vision needs a filter and at bare minimum someone to write his dialogue.

Lucas needed someone, or several someones, to reign him in and polish off some of the sperg from his works. ANH got that. ESB got that. RotJ got that in part but not enough - he was big enough that no one could really tell him no. And the prequels he had no one to keep him on the ranch. But you look at stuff like the clip of him looking at art samples for Grievous and you can tell he still had the eye.
Another example of how important having someone on staff to tell you "no don't that's retarded" or "love the idea, but let's reframe and tighten it" is Anne Rice. She very famously became arrogant after her first few vampire books did gangbusters and demanded total control over her works. She essentially demanded that her publisher release as is, without any editing. This was because she genuinely did not like getting those critiques and felt it was a pain in the ass.

She was right in that the audience still bought it, but whodathunk it, those books were a lot worse and crappier compared to her earlier stuff.

Again, the media outside of the prequels movies show that yes, there's a lot of good shit in it. I still sing praises of Tartakovsky wars since despite everyone being overpowered bs, it nailed the characters correctly as far as I'm concerned. It's just the movies did NOT go through a round in the hot box, and if they did that then they would've been a hell of a lot better.
 
Jesus FUCK, what is this...
-Your Autisticness, Star Wars made Obiwan gay! Despite the peacenik mando chick!
-We must release female custodes now!
A few days later!
-Lord Mickey, the imperiums just genderpozzed their troopers!
-Haha, our clontroopers will be more stunning and brave! They forgot to replace the gold with the tranny flag!
Wait a second, it all makes sense now. The trans clone trooper is fighting against the Confederacy of Independent Systems.

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When the name is abbreviated this confederation is known as.... CIS!
Whenever I read CIS I thibk of a pooner or tranny yelling at Dooku.
Don't forget that arch anthropocentrist and exterminatus enjoyer Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin was made to slam ass repeatedly with men too.
Daala disagrees between chocking noises caused by Tarkin's Pocket Death Star saber.
... they actually did it.
They used the tranny colors, or "Pink" to signify "girl"...

Starwars is 100% detached from our world, Starwars is in the past and a galaxy far far away... they never used "pink" to signify femininity because that's a earth concept. Hell I fucking hate this trans shit in scifi shit because I like to think no matter if your pro or anti trans, this shit would be figured out in future space tech, the same way no one in starwars has cancer or is in a wheel chair (unless your yoda and the animation department didn't want to animate him walking) .

Almost 100% sure in Starwars lore there is a pill that could just make you a woman if you want. In a world of hyperspace, smarter than human robots, lazer swords and space magic, they are still having to pretend mentally ill men in dresses are women.

Didn't a Disney internal memo say something like "Hey, cool it on the gay shit you faggots are costing us money" ?
Same as DnD wheelchairs. The politics must ve copypasted so you can't escape the Message!
This is the thing that created the troontrooper by the way.
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You can't forget about Cleigg Lars
The Downs is strong with they/them.
Eventually, like the Nazis and the modern-day Russians, they will run out, especially since they don't rely on clones or droids
That is fucking retarded take. I guess the British Empire nor the Romans didn't exist because its not Murrika. And that's before the judentakes about the germans and russians.

Such systems absolutely worked fine for thousands of years in real life. What, you forgot about the Spanish Inquisition? I guess nobody suspects them.... the middle ages weren't all Shire and joyful dances either.

Its not pretty, but it is workable, and they do have clones and no birth control. There are genuine nitpicks, like technological stagnation, but this is just an extremely uneducated take driven by the most distorted of hollywood views on history.
 
That is fucking retarded take. I guess the British Empire nor the Romans didn't exist because its not Murrika. And that's before the judentakes about the germans and russians.
The British Empire relied on the consent of many local elites to run, as well as many local soldiers who are not white Britons. Sepoys and Raj, people. As for Rome, they eventually ran out of Romans to serve in the armed forces, so they replaced them with barbarian soldiers, and that led to the Empire's fall in 476 AD when those soldiers went on strike and deposed the Emperor.

The Russians today are running out of soldiers, while Germany got so short on manpower that they were tossing boys and grandparents into the Volkssturm to act as emergency troops, and some of the last Nazi troops to lay down their arms were foreigners who joined the Waffen SS, namely, French turncoats who joined the Waffen-SS Charlemagne Division.

Such systems absolutely worked fine for thousands of years in real life. What, you forgot about the Spanish Inquisition? I guess nobody suspects them.... the middle ages weren't all Shire and joyful dances either.
Not the same. The Spanish Inquisition had genuine support from the populace who supported their persecution of religious minorities whom the people didn't really like, since these minorities denied Christ, as opposed to the Imperium which terrorised and enslaved their people. And once again, tons of local tribals helped enforce Spanish rule overseas. Especially since most of Spain's army was at home fighting European wars.

As for the Middle Ages, the kings typically supported peasants because they needed the support. Kings could lose their jobs if enough nobles or the Pope decided they weren't good enough for the task.

Its not pretty, but it is workable, and they do have clones and no birth control. There are genuine nitpicks, like technological stagnation, but this is just an extremely uneducated take driven by the most distorted of hollywood views on history
No, the distorted view is saying that the British and Spanish Empires ruled like tyrannies when in reality, their dominions depended on the consent of the governed, and when they lost that, they lost their empires. When the indigenous tribes who populated Britain's empire had enough of their shit, and Britain couldn't bribe enough of them to be quiet, their empire crumbled. When enough creole nobles rebelled against Spain, their empire fell apart.

In the same vein, it's more realistic to have Palpatine appease human populations by providing stability and jobs to gain support, giving them a wide berth in exchange for troops and workers, than for the Imperium to tyrannize people with oppressive rules then expect those same people to die for them fighting against Space Cthulhu and Space Satan. You're opening yourself up to a Rome 476 AD scenario where the people with the weapons fucking hate your guts and turn on you. The fact that the Imperium still lasts for so long despite being a dystopia is unrealistic as fuck. They should've all fallen to Chaos temptations within the first 1000 years because of how shit life was under them.

The way the Empire was written in the SWEU, it felt like the people writing those books actually went to school and studied how empires ran and made a realistic facsimile of it with the Empire. They commit atrocities, but they appease enough people to look the other way and stay loyal. Even how they handle aliens was historically realistic; yes, they thought most aliens were scum, but they still provided stability for them and even had alliances with some alien leaders and groups, enough that some aliens are willing to serve the Empire as bounty hunters and mercenaries. The Ailons, the Hutts, the Chiss, and the Trandoshans served the Empire well.

The way the Imperium was written in the Black Library books feels like a bunch of edgelords whose only knowledge of empires come from Marxist professors and Black Legend peddlers, and so they made the Imperium into a dystopian tyranny, because they think all empires are dystopian tyrannies. Then they tried to over-correct and make the Space Marines and Imperium into genuine forces of good, which just creates a tonal whiplash as the Space Marines go from transhuman bastards to capeshit heroes.
 
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The way the Empire was written in the SWEU, it felt like the people writing those books actually went to school and studied how empires ran and made a realistic facsimile of it with the Empire. They commit atrocities, but they appease enough people to look the other way and stay loyal.

The way the Imperium was written in the Black Library books feels like a bunch of edgelords whose only knowledge of empires come from Marxist professors and Black Legend peddlers, and so they made the Imperium into a dystopian tyranny, because they think all empires are dystopian tyrannies.
The Imperium is anarchic. The only thing holding it together is the threat of being bombed if they don’t pay taxes. Such taxes are to keep producing so much stuff to fund wars that it drives rulers to be cruel to their people, to not care about the environment or worker health. 20 hour shifts every day and so on. It’s British history driven to the extreme. Industrial Revolution child labor and destructive coal mining while London is being bombed by football hooligans and a bunch of weirdos in big hats are burning witches.

The Empire is a military government. It has central control over communications, commerce, and hyperdrive routes. It is to represent a vast and oppressive space empire that actually has the galaxy in its grip.
 
The Imperium is anarchic. The only thing holding it together is the threat of being bombed if they don’t pay taxes. Such taxes are to keep producing so much stuff to fund wars that it drives rulers to be cruel to their people, to not care about the environment or worker health. 20 hour shifts every day and so on. It’s British history driven to the extreme. Industrial Revolution child labor and destructive coal mining while London is being bombed by football hooligans and a bunch of weirdos in big hats are burning witches.
That's because it was made by people who were angsty about how bad empires are in general, and they had a bit of a Black Legend kick along with the Industrial Revolution studies, to be particular. They weren't making a world that could feasibly be logical; they were making a world that was fucking balls-to-the-wall insane. Trying to make sense of it is pointless, unless you come from a certain point of view that demonizes religion, monarchy, and the military.

The Empire is a military government. It has central control over communications, commerce, and hyperdrive routes. It is to represent a vast and oppressive space empire that actually has the galaxy in its grip.
Not quite. The majority of the Imperial Military are citizens who supported it. Most of their soldiers are consenting adults who made the choice to fight and die for the throne. The majority of the senators approved of the Empire in the first place and continued to vote yes on everything Palpatine did. You seem to underestimate how much people hated the anarchy of the Old Republic and the chaos of the Clone Wars. The Empire wouldn't have such a massive force of volunteers if it wasn't popular. That, and the SWEU shows that the life of the average Imperial citizen was comfortable so long as you're not one of the 1% of the people they decided to fuck with. If the Empire was that unpopular, you'd find entire sectors and fleets defecting to the Rebellion in droves, and over half the Rebel fleet on Endor would be turncoat Imperial vessels manned by Imperials who defected to the Alliance and spray-painted the Alliance bird on their ISDs, TIEs, and Stormtrooper armor.

Compare that to the CIS which used droid slaves, the Republic which used clone slaves, and the Rebels who were always short-handed for manpower, and the Empire had the largest amount of willing, adult volunteers for its army in any of the films. They literally had to retcon and add in scenes after ROTJ of people cheering after the Empire fell because people doubted the righteousness of the Rebel cause. Only for the SWEU novels to show that yes, a lot of people supported the Empire, to the point where they wound up voting Tarkin's girlfriend as the Galactic Alliance head of state because they wanted stability after that whole Darth Caedus shit.
 
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I agree with you recent posts on this, Anakin was too young in the prequals when we met him. I posted years ago on here my summary of the prequel plots I wrote nearly 10 years ago. My idea for the introduction of Anakin would have been for him to be a fighter pilot in his 20s that was commanding some small planetary fighter squadron on a remote planet where his force abilities were overlooked by the locals as they thought he was just an exceptional pilot. My idea had Obi Wans counselor ship be caught in a battle near this planet between two Waring local factions and Anakin's squadron come to his aid, where Obi Wan would realize after meeting him he was force sensitive. There would have been a constant conflict over Anakin wanting to remain a military man over a monk like existence with the Jedi.

The line in the OT where Obi Wan tells Luke "when I first met your father he was already a great pilot" was really messed up in TPM because my entire life I never envisioned this meeting line to mean he was a nine year old child flying planetbound racing vehicles. I always envisioned a brave young fighter pilot. Having Anakin already be a military man before starting his Jedi training was something they missed because this helps explain why Vader would gravitate towards being a military commander over some dark side priest like figure or how the Sith are portrayed in current ST media.

The current timeline is wrong to me as well with Vader being in his 40s by ROTJ, that is too young. He should have been in his 60s as we saw him to be when Luke removes his helmet.
@LORD IMPERATOR already made a lot of great points about why Anakin needed to be an older child when he first appears due to the rules in jedi training as outlined in ESB, but it's also a brilliant move for Anakin's narrative. When we meet Anakin he's got the purity and hopefulness to do good across the galaxy in a way no one other than a child could, he even states that all he wants to do is help people. Next time we see him he's 20 years old, where you would rather we meet him first but without seeing him as a child of pure innocence none of the events going forward would have an impact. When we see Anakin at 20, everything the Council warned Anakin about is starting to come true, that his tendency to form attachments (as kids do) would create his downfall (especially Anakin's attachment towards life). We see Anakin at his most innocent and pure as a child where he says he just wants to help people but as he grew up he had to confront the fact that he couldn't even save his own mother who he loved the most. This making him double down on his need to save everyone and making the promise on his mother's grave that he will never fail again, this is what goes on to create Darth Vader. All of that would be missing if you just start with Anakin as some military dude, and I've seen the re-edits that cut most of Phantom Menace out and they are all so shallow compared to the full story, I can't believe people prefer that stuff to be cut.

As for how Anakin looks in RotJ, just keep in mind that most of his skin is synthetic with cheap materials and Palpatine had purposely constructed Vader to be very shitty and junky, something he did to purposely cause anguish in Anakin because he's such a tech whiz that he's aware the entire time he's being built that he's being made to be a piece of shit (I love this detail from the RotS novel, it completely changes the meaning of Anakin screams of pure rage when he's being put together in the movie) so yeah Anakin isn't going to look like Ryan Gosling in RotJ, he's gonna look like shit and unrecognizable, that's the point.
 
@LORD IMPERATOR already made a lot of great points about why Anakin needed to be an older child when he first appears due to the rules in jedi training as outlined in ESB, but it's also a brilliant move for Anakin's narrative. When we meet Anakin he's got the purity and hopefulness to do good across the galaxy in a way no one other than a child could, he even states that all he wants to do is help people. Next time we see him he's 20 years old, where you would rather we meet him first but without seeing him as a child of pure innocence none of the events going forward would have an impact. When we see Anakin at 20, everything the Council warned Anakin about is starting to come true, that his tendency to form attachments (as kids do) would create his downfall (especially Anakin's attachment towards life). We see Anakin at his most innocent and pure as a child where he says he just wants to help people but as he grew up he had to confront the fact that he couldn't even save his own mother who he loved the most. This making him double down on his need to save everyone and making the promise on his mother's grave that he will never fail again, this is what goes on to create Darth Vader. All of that would be missing if you just start with Anakin as some military dude, and I've seen the re-edits that cut most of Phantom Menace out and they are all so shallow compared to the full story, I can't believe people prefer that stuff to be cut.
The contrast with Anakin being a pure-hearted child and a young man with doubts are what makes the story interesting. If he was just some military dude the Jedi pick up who turns to the Dark Side, that just comes off as hippie bullshit, about how anyone with a military slant is more susceptible to evil, when real life proves that isn't the case. Having Anakin be a wide-eyed idealist getting turkey-slapped with reality, with him realizing that the Jedi and the Republic aren't what they marketed themselves as, helps justify the doubts in his mind, which then plants the seeds of the Dark Side that Sidious nourishes and grows through the course of the films and the SWEU. The fact that Palpatine has faith in Anakin while the Jedi don't goes to show why Anakin chose Palpatine in the end instead of the Jedi.

As for how Anakin looks in RotJ, just keep in mind that most of his skin is synthetic with cheap materials and Palpatine had purposely constructed Vader to be very shitty and junky, something he did to purposely cause anguish in Anakin because he's such a tech whiz that he's aware the entire time he's being built that he's being made to be a piece of shit (I love this detail from the RotS novel, it completely changes the meaning of Anakin screams of pure rage when he's being put together in the movie) so yeah Anakin isn't going to look like Ryan Gosling in RotJ, he's gonna look like shit and unrecognizable, that's the point.
Not only that, but the Dark Side saps the life out of you. Looking at the Emperor, dude looks like he's 100 instead of 70. Sure, we later learn that's because the Force Lightning was blasted unto his face, but some already speculate that all the lightning did was blow off the disguise and show the reality underneath; a man twisted by the powers of darkness. Vader was almost as dark as Palpatine, so of course, that reality would reflect unto his face.
 
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