Warhammer 40k

[p1138]

That sounds weird. I remember when they overhauled the marines for 3rd. They were so poseable and fun. Yeah, it was goofy that everyone's tactical squad was doing non-standard things, but it's entertaining at least. I can see the appeal of push fit and other simplified kits for mass infantry or beginners, but I don't get why they'd go backwards. Either have single pose with a lot of them, or fewer but you can pose them yourself.

Because if they do "pose it yourself" all you get is the shitty crappy tactical marines where you can point the waist a little left or a little right. No dynamic poses. I think you might be confusing what dynamic poses means. Here's the IG combat patrol, they have different poses, instead of just torso on generic legs and point arms slightly up or down. The trouble is that there's some duplicates of the legs but because there's enough variety of dudes running, standing, leaning, aiming, throwing grenades, etc. you get some variety. But these are monopose.


This is the tactical marine squad that is "posable". There is nothing dynamic, both feet are always on the ground, the only pose options you get is the guns slightly higher or lower. These are not monopose, but they're barely "posable".


If you go here to the bladeguard veterans, you'll see the sprues, the legs are not posable, and the arms aren't really posable, so they're monopose. However, if you look at the sprues you'll see there's a bunch of options for gear, what they're holding, how they're holding it, etc. https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/shop/Space-Marines-Bladeguard-Veterans-2020

 

[Alter Ego]

Well that's ok because RPS I guess took a fucking month to realize that the imperium of man is run by a bunch of fascist assholes...

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/why-play-a-fascist-unpacking-the-hideousness-of-the-space-marine

No shit? But gamergate! And those damned trump voters! This is like when Extra Credits pulled that "and suddenly you're a nazi" bullshit.

For reference's, here's the A&N thread pertaining to this Rock Paper Shotgun article. The article also links to another article by some other guy that's even longer and wackier, an impressive feat in both regards:

Read the new Cain novel. It's surprisingly really good. My only issue is that some jokes are getting really old, especially with how much shit he already went through to have the "if I knew what's going to be I would have run away".

I only ever read the first Ciaphas Cain omnibus a very long time ago, and while the writing was charming, I never read any more because I already became exhausted by what I recognized to be the same story told over and over again. Seems like nothing has changed many books later.

 

[p1138]

I only ever read the first Ciaphas Cain omnibus a very long time ago, and while the writing was charming, I never read any more because I already became exhausted by what I recognized to be the same story told over and over again. Seems like nothing has changed many books later.

You definitely haven't missed anything other than a couple of the books that take place much later in his career(like when he's supposed to be a retired teacher for commissar school) just repeat the same things except now he's too old for this shit, jurgen is as fragrant as ever, amberleigh complaining about sulla's crappy writing, and so on. It's not bad, it's just the same shit over and over.

For reference's, here's the A&N thread pertaining to this Rock Paper Shotgun article. The article also links to another article by some other guy that's even longer and wackier, an impressive feat in both regards:

Ugh... and the article about the austrian painter incident in spain... they COULDN'T boot the damned player because apparently it's protected speech due to being political and the guy had threatened to call the cops on the venue over it. It also wasn't even a GW event either.

 

[Judge Dredd]

I honestly don't enjoy the hobby aspect. I want to collect and play the game.

Same. I don't mind building guys, that's fun, but I never cared for painting. And I think that's the case for most. Again, the popularity of X-Wing, Hero Clix, or even board games with coloured plastic bits that 99% of the time nobody paints. Again, Gunpla has GW beat. You can go to town painting and the line, but coloured plastic is good enough.

This is the tactical marine squad that is "posable".

I don't mind that. It looks okay. There's nothing extreme going on that makes them stand out.

Granted, I've not built a space marine in a decade or more, and I come from this.


I don't have a good picture, but third edition re-did space marine sculpts, and people had lots of fun. Even if the end result is as spilled spaghett describes:

I also don't want them to be so varied that the unit looks completely disorganized. One guy is looking at some dataslate, one's standing around with his gun lowered, another's in a running pose, someone else is kneeling to take a shot.

I remember looking at a scanner was a popular pose.

How they worked was torso, legs, arms, and head were all separate, and there was a bunch of spares. So you could have a guy pointing, a guy holding something, you could have him looking in a direction, It was easy to go to an extreme and have it so a shoulder pad wouldn't fit or a gun wouldn't line up. I might be remembering wrong, but I think bolters were complete weapons so you had to snip the grip off every time. I want to say Tau reined it in a bit, but worked on the same principle.

Aside from the pushfit stuff (from the leviathan box I believe) I assumed what I described was still the standard. Again, been away for a while and since my return I've only really done third party.


Edit: Forgot to ask about this.

I have the patience to manually adjust each one to be a special snowflake among his 50+ brothers.

Is it me, or have games of 40k gotten bigger? I know OPR gets shit on for 1000 points not going as far as 40k, but it's strange how 2000pts seems to have become the standard. I vaguely remember games being smaller scale back then. I was watching a HH battle report and the models were crammed into the deployment zone like sardines. This might also explain why "i go you go" is hated so much. The idea of standing around for an hour waiting for your opponent to go wasn't as much of a thing when it was only 3-4 units and a vehicle.

 

[Inquisitor_BadAss]

Horus Heresy games are usually 3K points or over but the rules don't adjust the table size to match so your packing in more models in a smaller space.
As for 40K since 2K points became the standard GW is constantly messing with unit costs making armies on the table larger and larger. When you combine that with the smaller table size in the game things just get out of hand. For 2K sized games of 40K 6x4 would be fine while HH I'd argue and 8x4 is needed

 

[YumeNoHero]

Now the next stage in modeling would be having that gunpla/action figure posability when modeling. However, I can’t see that being financial viable with mass scale printing nor being beginner friendly.

JoyToy is doing just that and I recall GW sometimes promotes their Primarch figures as well. Don't have pictures on hand now but I bought a Chaplain Terminator from them and converted him to DA chapter by repainting and made a new chapter specific pauldron using pla plates.

 

[SIMIΔN]

they were Iron Warriors and because it wasn't super obvious most of the guard there assumed they were there to save the day.

To be honest, being a serf for the Iron Warriors is probably better than being taken back to Commaragh. Do they even worship Chaos?

I guess it'll suck if you become a baby machine.

Anyway here's the full thing on Bilibili if you haven't seen it yet

 

[Agent of Z.O.G.]

Because if they do "pose it yourself" all you get is the shitty crappy tactical marines where you can point the waist a little left or a little right. No dynamic poses. I think you might be confusing what dynamic poses means. Here's the IG combat patrol, they have different poses, instead of just torso on generic legs and point arms slightly up or down. The trouble is that there's some duplicates of the legs but because there's enough variety of dudes running, standing, leaning, aiming, throwing grenades, etc. you get some variety. But these are monopose.

NOBODY HAS EVER ALTERED A FIGURE'S POSE
NOBODY HAS EVER COMBINED PARTS FROM DIFFERENT KITS
NOBODY HAS EVER MADE CONVERSIONS THAT DON'T REQUIRE ONE TO RESCULPT HALF THE MODEL
NOBODY HAS EVER BEEN HAPPY

monoposejak.webp

I think bolters were complete weapons so you had to snip the grip off every time. I want to say Tau reined it in a bit, but worked on the same principle.

Yeah that was great, you could use the extra bolters for something else beyond "dismembered limb still holding gun"

 

[p1138]

NOBODY HAS EVER ALTERED A FIGURE'S POSE
NOBODY HAS EVER COMBINED PARTS FROM DIFFERENT KITS
NOBODY HAS EVER MADE CONVERSIONS THAT DON'T REQUIRE ONE TO RESCULPT HALF THE MODEL
NOBODY HAS EVER BEEN HAPPY

And guess what? You can still do that with modern kits. But you also seem to have not considered something, it's not a single player game. I don't want to look at someone's 60 squatting marines with arms in barely different positions because they didn't buy extra shit(or print it these days) to kitbash, just as much as I don't want to play against someone's shitty gray unpainted army. Looks like shit now, looked like shit in the 90s.

 

[iceteayo]

He’s bold for going against the grain but he’s right

 

[AllieKat]

Just finished the Red Tithe novel. I liked it.

I continue to play Space Marine 2. If anyone wants to clown on operations hit me up.

 

[Spilled Spaghett]

Is it me, or have games of 40k gotten bigger? I know OPR gets shit on for 1000 points not going as far as 40k, but it's strange how 2000pts seems to have become the standard. I vaguely remember games being smaller scale back then. I was watching a HH battle report and the models were crammed into the deployment zone like sardines. This might also explain why "i go you go" is hated so much. The idea of standing around for an hour waiting for your opponent to go wasn't as much of a thing when it was only 3-4 units and a vehicle.

It's not just you it's actually happening. GW wants to sell more models, but people also wanted to play with more models. They reduced point costs of units so you would have to bring more. 2k points I don't think was standard for a while. You are right in that the game was designed around smaller armies so you had fewer activations before your opponent could respond. They also didn't have decades of experience to tell them that taking turns to watch your opponent play Solohammer was a bad idea. For the time I'm sure this was seen as sharing and taking turns.

Even in alternating activation games you still need to worry about the action economy. This issue only gets worse the more units you put on the table. Though I think it's funny that OPR uses fewer models on a much larger board 6'x4' compared to 40k's weird choice of 5'x3'8". Maybe someone else knows why they went with 44" specifically. In 40k after spending hundreds on models I still don't have a 2k army, but in OPR I blow past it and that's before buying upgrades.

While I do enjoy playing with tons of models in a full army sized game it does become a bit of a hassle to manage all the pieces. Not to mention each unit feels less impactful since your real power comes from rolling enough dice to overcome statistics. I hope 40k can make the transition to alternating activations but I'm not sure what changes we'd have to make to make it happen. Could it still work with the modern army sizes? Do we keep phases so that all units move, then shoot before charging and fighting? Or do we get rid of phases and each unit's activation goes through the phases on its own? Maybe it's also time we did away with rolling to move as a rule instead of relying on leader abilities.

 

[Merried Senior Comic]

I don’t know if I’ll ever actually play the game I just really like the models as an addition to the tanks, aircraft and gunpla I build.

 

[p1138]

It's not just you it's actually happening. GW wants to sell more models, but people also wanted to play with more models. They reduced point costs of units so you would have to bring more. 2k points I don't think was standard for a while. You are right in that the game was designed around smaller armies so you had fewer activations before your opponent could respond. They also didn't have decades of experience to tell them that taking turns to watch your opponent play Solohammer was a bad idea. For the time I'm sure this was seen as sharing and taking turns.

It was definitely 1500 points for quite a while till the tournament scene decided it needed to be 2000, then the points drops over the years definitely means more models on the table unless you're playing something like guard tanks, custodes, knights, big chaos demons, etc. GW also weirdly bases their expected play times for games on both players not only entirely knowing the rules, but also their own army rules and it works for tournaments with 3 hour games but the average casual player even against someone who knows their army rules can drag a 2000 point 5 round game into 6+ hours(probably the biggest cause of this is units having 5+ different weapon profiles for ranged and then melee as well, becomes a slog when someone has to count which weapons are remaining in the unit, then roll for each profile individually).

Even in alternating activation games you still need to worry about the action economy. This issue only gets worse the more units you put on the table. Though I think it's funny that OPR uses fewer models on a much larger board 6'x4' compared to 40k's weird choice of 5'x3'8". Maybe someone else knows why they went with 44" specifically. In 40k after spending hundreds on models I still don't have a 2k army, but in OPR I blow past it and that's before buying upgrades.

Some autist in upper management likes things being close to 8.5x11 US letter size paper. They like the larger sprues being close to that(although I think those are closer to A4), and being able to fold a large sheet into quarters and have it be that size for the paper mats they bundle with starter boxes and things. At 8.5x11 the 60x44 table size ends up being 7 sheets x 4 sheets. There was an excuse floating around that people didn't make large enough tables to play 6x4 on which is of course bullshit because people played on 6x4 for years and it wasn't like GW even sold mats that would prompt people to re-buy them or the thinner neoprene pieces to section off a 6x4 mat(and the 2'x2' and 12"x12" tiles had already been discontinued anyway with no replacement).

 

[Spilled Spaghett]

GW also weirdly bases their expected play times for games on both players not only entirely knowing the rules, but also their own army rules and it works for tournaments with 3 hour games but the average casual player even against someone who knows their army rules can drag a 2000 point 5 round game into 6+ hours(probably the biggest cause of this is units having 5+ different weapon profiles for ranged and then melee as well, becomes a slog when someone has to count which weapons are remaining in the unit, then roll for each profile individually).

I figured those recommended times were for experienced players but the massive difference in time can be a bit discouraging. A game between friends and I, even on tabletop sim that has a lot of QoL features, is basically a whole day affair. Sure we bullshit half the time, but even when we are focused on our turns shooting with a tank is painful. I'm too retarded to confidently remember stats. I do need to check every time I shoot with Fire Warriors that yes a Pulse Rifle has 30" of range, hits on 4+, and has a strength of 5. You're spot on with counting weapon profiles being a huge time sink. Some units are simple, some units have 2 heavy weapons, and 3 melee upgrades to keep track of. Honestly I think the biggest time sink of them all is the roll to wound. Comparing strength and toughness values whether they are greater than, less than, or equal to isn't that confusing but it does add a lot of extra steps for casual players before they can roll dice even if it is just a few extra moments each time.

Not that I don't enjoy epic length strategy games, but other board games are honestly a lot more interactive than Warhammer. At least half of your play time will be spent just trying to figure out what the result of a decision is rather than making actual moves. A 6+ hour play time would be a lot more tolerable if at least 3 of those hours weren't spent playing with my phone waiting for my opponent to tell me what happened. I'm not going to be the one to try and rush my opponent because I know I'm going to need that much time myself.

Some autist in upper management likes things being close to 8.5x11 US letter size paper.

This I did not realize. I guess at least it is based off something and isn't a number pulled out of their ass. Maybe the whole letter paper standard would make sense if GW promoted people to use more home supplies for their battlefields. Instead of buying fancy boards or neoprene mats just take some printer paper at home and use that to draw / layout your battlefield. OPR's use of 6'x4'. Almost all measurements are done in multiples of 6. 6" to move, 12" to advance/charge. Deployment zone is 12" across so no man's land is 24". Gun ranges are typically 12", 18", 24" etc. Of course this isn't a hard rule but it does lead to more clean measurements and more predictable timing of combat. You know that a unit can reach center board in round one, or that a 24" gun can reach across No Man's Land. You feel like you can more easily make informed decisions about positioning instead of second guessing which units can reach what, and avoid overlapping threat zones of varying sizes. Since the board is so big, and the model count low, out maneuvering your opponent is actually viable.

 

[Tri-Tachyon'sClown]

Wonder how many people posted his work, seriously his serious stuff is great. (Thread)

 

[Humble Architect]

Finished the Eidolon novel, I enjoyed it. One of the better 40k reads this year though that’s bias talking.

No Lucius mention at all but it was a good showing for the legion, especially the finale, it also explains why Eidolon was fighting at Primarch-level during the Siege.

Much better than Lord of Excess.

 

[Judge Dredd]

They also didn't have decades of experience to tell them that taking turns to watch your opponent play Solohammer was a bad idea.

That's the thing. That wasn't really an issue unless someone was playing a horde army like orcs or nids. HQ, two troop choices, and then a few units of whatever else was usually the order of the day.

Sure we bullshit half the time, but even when we are focused on our turns shooting with a tank is painful. I'm too retarded to confidently remember stats. I do need to check every time I shoot with Fire Warriors that yes a Pulse Rifle has 30" of range, hits on 4+, and has a strength of 5. You're spot on with counting weapon profiles being a huge time sink.

It reminds me of the complaint that sargents in OPR get +1 to hit instead of an extra attack. Supposedly that slows the game too much. I thought that was an insane complaint, but I guess it makes sense.

I guess this also means the changes to marines so that each squad only uses one weapon is a smart change.



More lore retardation on my part. I want to ask about beastmen in 40k (and AoS as well I guess).

Supposedly, in lore, they can be a hybrid between human and any animal. So why are they all goats and bulls? I get why no rats, insects, birds, and lizards (skaven, vespid, tzeench, kroot, and lizardmen), but shouldn't there be a range of animals? I guess they don't want grimdark Redwall.

I've read the conversion for 40k beastmen is to get Frostgrave demons and do either an arm swap or a head swap, depending on the look you want. Thing is, GW makes 40k beastmen for killteam, and fantasy beastmen for AoS. Is there a reason people don't default to them? Obviously third party is way cheaper per unit, but given the fandom insists on GW plastic or forge world resin every other time, it's strange Frostgrave is the go-to.

And how do they play rules wise? I know AoS and (I assume) Kill Team have stats for them, but how are they run in regular 40k? I assume they just proxy for regular guard or maybe ogryn.

On the topic of a beastman conversion. What would be the best way to go for a sci-fi lizard man? I considered doing a simple head swap, but most lizard men are either molded with the head or neck as part of the torso. I assume a bit of putty green stuff would do the job of remaking a neck, but I might be over thinking it. The only other option I found was Vesk minis from Starfinder, I'd say a weapon swap, but that might look strange with loinclothes or fantasy armour.

 

[Sunflower Samurai]

GW trying to offhandedly pander to lefty/idpol types and then those types still writing nonstop articles about how the Imperium is full of meanies will forever be a hilarious scorpion and the frog moment

"We gave you le gatecrushers and manjaw custodes ma'am, buy our slop"

"This one right wing tard said imperium good once, it'll be good for my clickbait lmao"

 

[p1138]

Youtube channel acts incompetently regarding their content creation, blames GW for their stupidity.

Oh look, it's midwinter minis again. This time he wanted to paint some shit up for "orktober" videos, doesn't bother to order his $500 forgeworld model until September 30th. So of course because it's a FW model it requires fixing a bunch of warped parts, bubbles, gaps, etc. (and he's built FW models before so he was already aware of this). Now GW did show their incompetence by taking 3 weeks to ship a supposedly in stock model, however he could have also planned this shit a month in advance instead of a day in advance if it was going to be the entirety of his content for the month of October.

But that doesn't explain why the other shit that didn't take 3 weeks to arrive doesn't appear to be painted and he didn't use that for content either. Of course he could have also bought the models sooner, had them painted, and then just posted the videos during October like anyone with a brain might do.