Why Modern women expectations are too high and unrealistic?

[Maurice Maine]

It's depressing but I feel it's just a stage that civilization is going through. Mankind wasn't prepared for the consequences of the internet and the sexual revolution but I hope this will be sorted out in the next two or so generations. It's gonna be rough but hey life ain't a picnic is it.

 

[Silence of the Troons]

Why do modern women have such high and unrealistic expectations?

Wrong. The percentage of women who haven't realized that they do not have to settle for a low value below bare minimum effort man who does not wash his ass and has a crippling porn/video game addiction is not high enough. Just look at some of the girlfriends of some of our local male lolcows, or your average female Redditor posting in relationship subs.

What value do women bring to the table that justifies these high expectations?

Low value bare below minimum effort men who bring no value to the table (which is all moids complaining about "women's high expectations") do not get to complain about women’s ”high expectations”, or have any expectations at all.

I often wonder why their expectations of men have become so elevated in today's society.

Because more and more women are coming to the realization that they do not have to settle for a low value below minimum effort man who does not wash his ass and has a crippling porn/video game addiction.

 

[Bloom Worm Cross Field]

People swear down that women on dating apps are hyper-demanding, ungrateful, disloyal slobs who want a handsome prince to wait on them hand and foot, while bringing nothing to the table. Maybe those people are right, in which case my question is, where are all these women? I've almost never known one. Is it that all these women only exist in the US and not other countries?

Tropes about demanding women that I have never personally observed any woman in my real life do:

• Demand a hugely expensive wedding ring
• Dismiss on principle any man under 6ft
• Demand a man be making $100k+ salary
• Demand that a man owns his own house or owns an expensive car
• Expect a man to wait on her hand and foot
• Have ridiculously mismatched expectations on the required attractiveness of men

There are a smallish minority of (straight, white) women who I would class as completely unavailable to normal guys, and these are made up of two categories:

• Women who are just not interested in dating, sex, or settling down, and are totally tunnel-visioned to their career
• Women who inexplicably go after scumbag men, who inevitably end up abusing them or leaving them (often with a kid)

 

[Alexander Thaut]

The problem, like so many of our societal ills, started with boomers.

They first spread this cancerous idea that women don’t need to settle, but can in fact have it all: Career, family, being sexy and desirable (and an amazing sex life of course!) as well as romance that’ll sweep them off their feet.

In reality, you can’t have it all.

Unless you’re like 1% of women, you won’t even be able to balance family and career.

Nancy Pelosi, (yeah she’s a cunt) is one example of that. She didn’t start her political career until her kids were grown. But she’s is the absolute exception.

Top men in their fields likewise often neglect their families, especially if they don’t have a woman who manage the family life.

But top men, unlike many women, don’t have an illusion that they can be amazing homemakers, top executives, sexy AND have the love life of a romance novel. Unlike too many women.

It just sounds like boomers cultivated the idea that the exception is the rule when it comes to women. Meanwhile, men have to work within expectations.

Wrong. The percentage of women who haven't realized that they do not have to settle for a low value below bare minimum effort man who does not wash his ass and has a crippling porn/video game addiction is not high enough. Just look at some of the girlfriends of some of our local male lolcows, or your average female Redditor posting in relationship subs.

Low value bare below minimum effort men who bring no value to the table (which is all moids complaining about "women's high expectations") do not get to complain about women’s ”high expectations”, or have any expectations at all.

Because more and more women are coming to the realization that they do not have to settle for a low value below minimum effort man who does not wash his ass and has a crippling porn/video game addiction.

I mean, I just find it fucking weird that it's kinda on both ends at this point.

Anyways in response to everything I've read on the thread so far.

In short, I think there's just a substantial portion of people that aren't aware of how to at least clean up their act and learn how to at least look like they're trying to take care of themselves. There's probably plenty of normies that wouldn't be averse to hooking up with someone on their level, but we usually remember/hear about all the fucked up shit.

It's understandable. I know a lotta guys that are just wary of dealing with modern Western women because they don't want to deal with the chance that she may be insane and fuck them over. Sure, it ain't the norm, but I do understand being wary of the seeming normalization of false rape accusations, taking everything in a divorce, discovering the woman's skeletons in her closet, and so on. To top it all off, we always hear about nightmare situations so often that it leads to the conclusions of "yeah I'm not gonna prioritize this" at best.

But at the same time, I also understand a lot of women may be wary of a lot of modern Western men's bullshit. I get it.


So, what's the solution to all this? Roll back societal shifts that started with the Boomers? Impossible. Encourage healthier relationships? Also difficult with the way that mainstream and social medias influence things. It'd also require the family unit to be more cohesive. It's honestly going to have to start with each individual figuring things out. It doesn't help that our perception of social status has been linked to higher education for a while. You have to get a degree. That's what you're taught. What? You don't know what you want to do with life and every blue collar job's had shade thrown at it throughout your primary and secondary schooling? Well, you're shit outta luck. (Probably doesn't help that it seems women are more likely to follow the idea of social status symbols like certs and diplomas more often, which leads to a surprising amount of unhappy "highly educated" women with multiple MAs that can't find an "equal" man. I've seen these complaints online and offline.)

That being said, I've seen people mellow out and settle down. I think a lot of this terminally online stuff just comes from being terminally online, combined with a lot of young people being in places that keep yammering about this. Maybe things can work out. I dunno. I know a guy that works a proper 9-5 and lives with his parents that also wound up getting married to some woman that lives with her parents. They're good people and just seem to have agreed to take care of the old folks. Neither of them is amazing looking, with the guy being kinda short and the woman being pretty tall and fat. But, perhaps this could be a lesson for a lot of hapless retards.

Universities and modern educational institutions do this. I'm all for encouraging people to be the best they can possibly be and chase their dreams, but it needs to be obvious to both sexes that you can't realistically chase after EVERYTHING in life to such an unrealistic degree. It sucks to be a boy now. You have little positive influence in schools. The MSM bludgeons young men over the head with pointless harping on sexism. The institutions are run by the left and have shown that they refuse to address any issues for young men. Women get hyped. Women get pumped. Women flood graduate programs of all sorts. There's a substantial number of them in every bottom tier Law School and in almost every non-hard sciences program. I'm not saying that we don't get competent female lawyers or academics, but it's obvious that a lot of them just get into the "for profit" Podunk U's bottom tier law school with a 45-50% bar pass rate and wind up with a job that wasn't worth the expense.

There's a lot of women that don't have the capacity to be Doctors, Lawyers, and whatnot. Same with men. Hell, there's probably a lot of men that'd be suited for trades but the modern education system (and culture) keeps disrespecting trades and blue collar jobs, so a lot of dudes wind up in situations where they're a thoroughly lower-mid guy in some business course and go into debt that isn't worth it. I'm not sure if there's a sort of female equivalent to the trades as almost every trade job is male dominated. Perhaps being a teacher or nurse? I'm not sure.

I don't know if there is a solution to any of this. Higher ed is fucked. A lot of these higher end jobs in engineering/lawyers/doctoring are kinda not doing as amazingly as they used to in America. We've also got to deal with lots of h1b visa fuckers that aren't competent enough for the white collar job that some big corporation pulled them here for on pennies. Everything's politically polarized, especially with the recent Trump win. I don't blame some autist or Zoomer for being fucking confused and terrified of the world. Even networking ain't the greatest unless you have some nepotism to work with. Why would women want to settle for blackpilled/NEET men with severe issues? Why would a man want to settle for a woman that's been taught to be a bitch and hit over the head with modern feminism throughout her primary and secondary education? These people should be made to live together.

People swear down that women on dating apps are hyper-demanding, ungrateful, disloyal slobs who want a handsome prince to wait on them hand and foot, while bringing nothing to the table. Maybe those people are right, in which case my question is, where are all these women? I've almost never known one. Is it that all these women only exist in the US and not other countries?

It's been posted about and it's always some sorta meme at this point, but the grain of truth in it has led to people going overboard and believing in it thoroughly.

Tropes about demanding women that I have never personally observed any woman in my real life do:

• Demand a hugely expensive wedding ring
• Dismiss on principle any man under 6ft
• Demand a man be making $100k+ salary
• Demand that a man owns his own house or owns an expensive car
• Expect a man to wait on her hand and foot
• Have ridiculously mismatched expectations on the required attractiveness of men

I think it shows up a lot on Reddit/4chan stories. I barely see it on social media. Maybe on a few really whacked out princess syndrome women.

There are a smallish minority of (straight, white) women who I would class as completely unavailable to normal guys, and these are made up of two categories:

• Women who are just not interested in dating, sex, or settling down, and are totally tunnel-visioned to their career
• Women who inexplicably go after scumbag men, who inevitably end up abusing them or leaving them (often with a kid)

Yeah, you're right. I'd say that the whole "woman with unrealistic expectations aka the 6/6/6" thing is just the other side of the coin of "man wants tradwife mommy to do everything" and it's kinda sad. That being said, I think femcels should be on as full of a blast in the MSM as incels.

 

[Fougaro]

Roll back societal shifts that started with the Boomers? Impossible.

There is a way, but there is no will...

 

[Fapcop]

Jesus. I expect a job, basic hygiene, no active addiction, and common courtesy, which is a hell of a lot less than what I bring to the table. And I cannot be the only woman who has been called a gold digger for insisting on employment, but my days of running a home for wayward losers are over nevertheless.

Before I slide into your DMs, define “active addiction”?

So, what's the solution to all this? Roll back societal shifts that started with the Boomers? Impossible. Encourage healthier relationships?

Of course it’s possible to roll back societal shifts. We see it all the time. You’ve been brainwashed by the liberal view of seeing history as one, never ending staircase of “progress”, but in reality societal norms go back and forth all the time.

As for “healthier relationships” one staple of women’s magazines and now social media is the “what men want” genre, where women (it’s almost always women) hammer out the same bitch basic lists of what men ACTUALLY want.

And they’re always hilariously wrong, and filled with stuff that both mirrors women’s confusion and their wishful thinking.

We could maybe start by dropping the pretense and constant assurance of women that men totally, totally want them to be ambitious, driven, decisive, intelligent and sex kittens. All stuff that’s targeted for their own neurosis.

And explaining to them that you can’t have it all.


Btw: Got a reply here from a married woman, but I think it got lost in the downtime? Or did I imagine this?!

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Before I slide into your DMs, define “active addiction”?



Of course it’s possible to roll back societal shifts. We see it all the time. You’ve been brainwashed by the liberal view of seeing history as one, never ending staircase of “progress”, but in reality societal norms go back and forth all the time.

As for “healthier relationships” one staple of women’s magazines and now social media is the “what men want” genre, where women (it’s almost always women) hammer out the same bitch basic lists of what men ACTUALLY want.

And they’re always hilariously wrong, and filled with stuff that both mirrors women’s confusion and their wishful thinking.

We could maybe start by dropping the pretense and constant assurance of women that men totally, totally want them to be ambitious, driven, decisive, intelligent and sex kittens. All stuff that’s targeted for their own neurosis.

And explaining to them that you can’t have it all.


Btw: Got a reply here from a married woman, but I think it got lost in the downtime? Or did I imagine this?!

Well, it's not that I think it's impossible. The shift we're seeing right now is because the liberal side became the establishment and the counterculture is now kinda sorta right-winged.

But as for the other points here, I do generally agree on.

Not every woman can meet those labels. I think it's really funny-sad how we get a lot of mid women trying to meet those criteria and failing so horribly.

 

[Otterly]

My reply got lost in the rollback but I’d ask you OP if you can be more specific about what a woman has demanded of you that you feel is unreasonable.
It is certainly true that some people have odd and specific lists of ‘must’ haves. Don’t confuse ‘nice to have’ with that though. Yes many women find tall and handsome attractive but those of us within the middle of the attractiveness curve don’t demand a model set of looks. Rather like how I’m sure most men woul like some attractive sex bomb but will be totally fine with a girl next door type. What you have as an ideal is different to what you demand.

The vast majority of either sex have a similar list of demands:
No addictions, no serious vices. Hygienic (and the fact I have to even mention that is gross) stable job (doesn’t have to be rich just stable) and roughly compatible outlooks . Will do his share around the house. Wants a family. Loyal.
Can you give some examples of what you think an unreasonable demand women have?

 

[Fapcop]

My reply got lost in the rollback but I’d ask you OP if you can be more specific about what a woman has demanded of you that you feel is unreasonable.
It is certainly true that some people have odd and specific lists of ‘must’ haves. Don’t confuse ‘nice to have’ with that though. Yes many women find tall and handsome attractive but those of us within the middle of the attractiveness curve don’t demand a model set of looks. Rather like how I’m sure most men woul like some attractive sex bomb but will be totally fine with a girl next door type. What you have as an ideal is different to what you demand.

The vast majority of either sex have a similar list of demands:
No addictions, no serious vices. Hygienic (and the fact I have to even mention that is gross) stable job (doesn’t have to be rich just stable) and roughly compatible outlooks . Will do his share around the house. Wants a family. Loyal.
Can you give some examples of what you think an unreasonable demand women have?

Oh yeah, it was your reply that got lost!

Just wanted to say you sound like 8/10 wife material. Great job!

.
Can you give some examples of what you think an unreasonable demand women have?

Well, just the fact that there are fewer children born, fewer marriages and that some women go out and get IVF to have a kid despite being single, definitely indicates that SOME women have unreasonable demands. And that they’re a growing number.

Women also are the majority of people initiating a divorce.

 

[Otterly]

Just wanted to say you sound like 8/10 wife material. Great job!

Saucer of milk, table two

Women also are the majority of people initiating a divorce.

This is a stat that I suspect isn’t quite showing what people use it to show. Rather like the consumer spending one. Women do indeed spend 80% apparently of every pound spent on the UK high street and most of it is ‘Tesco shop, kids need new gym kit for school’ stuff. Yet that stat is used to prove women are spendthrifts
Many of the women I’ve known who initiated divorce had just had enough of being treated like a skivvy for 25 years. They have picked up, washed, cooked, cleaned and worked full time and done all the kid stuff and the man has done very little to nothing and then one day she files for divorce. He’s down the pub with his mates insisting that just the one load of dishes left in the sink was all he did and she’s telling her friends that it’s been twenty five years of effectively being his mum and she’s done with it. I have literally seen this play out multiple times. It’s like two completely different lives have been lived, by two people who’ve been k king together for decades.
I have also never known a man leave a relationship unless he has his feet under someone else’s table. Women seem more likely to just leave without a new relationship in the wings. I’m sure that contributes to the statistic as well.

Some people are unreasonable, no argument there. Some people are frankly insane. The rise of online dating I think skews people’s wants as well - it’s picking people based on how shiny and attractive they look in a profile, which I’m sure works when you’re buying consumer goods but not when you’re picking a life partner

 

[Smashed & Slamed]

Why do modern women have such high and unrealistic expectations? What value do women bring to the table that justifies these high expectations? I often wonder why their expectations of men have become so elevated in today's society.

Did you get dumped by a woman citing reasons like that would make you believe that?
Did you even date a woman?
Did you even ask a woman out?
Is this just your belief that is fueled by other people's assertion of that belief?

I could cite so many examples of men that are dumb, short, poor, ugly and in many other ways disadvantaged that on this very site have scored. But it would be pointless if your grievance comes from a place not related to reality.

 

[Bill Evans 45]

Otterly has pretty much covered it. Me and Mrs Bill have been married for a long time and it's similar.

I remember asking Mrs Bill, long after we met what her parameters were when we were first met and she agreed to date me. Pretty much the same. Essentials were: knows what soap is, literate, employed, not living with mom. Can cook and do laundry, not an active addict. Common morals and interests. Bonus points for own hair own teeth. Hell, we didn't even know what the other earned for the first couple years.

Up to Mrs Bill, my longest relationship was with whiskey and tobacco. Once I was sober, I did develop some standards. Similar to Otterly, but I never dated anyone with kids because that way madness lies.

But this was in pre internet days, and before everyone had to get a degree. You had to go out of the house to meet people. Go to classes, activities (my buddy met his wife at the local ball game) that kind of thing. Lots of couples meet through work.

I'm still totally confused by people who have 'dated online' for a year, never even been in the same room and call it a relationship.

 

[Bugman's Burden]

Social media is the primary culprit but there are a lot of secondary causes as well. A revolution almost never has one single cause and neither does this issue.

A woman that, decades ago, would be moderately cute can now create a social media page and have disgusting men simp for her and validate all her opinions. It inflates her value to the point she won't even consider the guys she would have paired up with in times prior to Facebook. This is aggravated by the fact that dating apps can set her up with top % men who will certainly fuck her because they're doing the same 'cast a wide net' as every other guy but will rarely commit leading to the "Are we dating the same guy?" groups.

As for the social engineering, I blame the rise in bullshit email jobs and DEI market manipulation that give women an undue advantage over men. And despite what some women ITT say about "he just needs to have all his teeth and wipe his ass", those standards are rare to the point of nonexistence. Women almost universally demand that men earn more than them and if a man fails to do so, the relationship is in trouble.

I'll leave it with this: a photo of Pokimane with no makeup. This is the look of an office manager's wife, not a millionaire stripper / whore:



But because of a bunch of scaffolding, she's a big success and one of many examples for young women of how to make it.

 

[Inside your walls]

I dunno if you're going to demand a woman to drop her pursuit of education and wanting to have a career (thus her own income) so her and eventually your children rely only on your income (absurd request btw), then I think she deserves to have high standards, woman without her own income that just depends on a man financially faces so many risks. If you want to put a woman through your "trad" vanity project inspired by AI sludge or feelsguy edits then you better have the resources for it because it's delusional to think you can finance such a lifestyle when your wallet is a felted one from a cartoon that has one rusty coin, a paperclip and moths flying out of it when you open it.

Many of the women I’ve known who initiated divorce had just had enough of being treated like a skivvy for 25 years. They have picked up, washed, cooked, cleaned and worked full time and done all the kid stuff and the man has done very little to nothing and then one day she files for divorce. He’s down the pub with his mates insisting that just the one load of dishes left in the sink was all he did and she’s telling her friends that it’s been twenty five years of effectively being his mum and she’s done with it.

People love throwing the "80% of women initiate divorce" but conveniently forget that most of them time the reason why women initiate is because the husband never does or doesn't want to do it because "papework hard". Because why would he? He's content and happy, and doesn't see any issues while their wives are the ones feeling immense pressure from doing everything.

 

[Silence of the Troons]

Do you think any of these women deserve a 6-7 figure lifestyle with a man who goes to the gym, takes care of himself, etc?
No. They're pudgy, old, and average looking.
Yet there are thousands upon thousands of examples of ordinary, average women like this expressing the most delusional expectations relative to their own worth as individuals. Women who rightfully belong with a middle class average man who works in a factory expecting a 7 figure man who can fly them to Paris for brunch.

The likelihood is far higher that these average women don't even realize that they could get at least an average man and instead settle for a low value below bare minimum effort man who does not wash his ass, has a video game/porn addiction and is broke 24/7, as seen on r/relationships and elsewhere.

People have every right to shit on delusional people. I thought that was basically the entire point of this site. Women with delusional expectations relative to their own social value are retarded. 99% of people ARE "The 99%"

Correct, which is why I have every right to shit on low value below bare minimum effort men who think that a woman expecting her scrote to wash his ass and not have a porn/video game addiction is "having high expectations".

Hypergamy is an issue and pretending it isn't, enabling it, is only going to hurt women in the long run when these girls hit 45-50 and rope because they're barren, childless and alone or worse, day drink their lives away because they married a betabux loser they don't respect because society has told them it's okay for them to fuck around with men out of their league for fun.

The issue is that low value and negative value men aren't sent off to the mines or made to get vasectomies often enough.

 

[Big Miss Steak]

Grabbed this from a search for "average women"

Do you think any of these women deserve a 6-7 figure lifestyle with a man who goes to the gym, takes care of himself, etc?
No. They're pudgy, old, and average looking.

>Googles "average women," is upset that he finds a picture of average-looking women

None of these women are old, and 2 of them are pudgy.

Yet there are thousands upon thousands of examples of ordinary, average women like this expressing the most delusional expectations relative to their own worth as individuals. Women who rightfully belong with a middle class average man who works in a factory expecting a 7 figure man who can fly them to Paris for brunch.

No there are not "thousands upon thousands of examples" of normie women expecting a man who makes 7 figures and can take them to Europe on a whim. Touch grass and meet some actual irl women please.

I have met exactly one woman who expects her male partner to make 6 figures and fly her around the world. She's a former competitive dancer, still extremely modelesque (gets booked for photo shoots pretty often), and makes 6 figures herself. She's also insufferable and is forever alone because of it. Not exactly your average example.

 

[isalaide]

Look, all people regardless of gender have to swallow the reality pill here: everyone who is really clever, or really pretty, or has great prospects in life? By 26, 27, they are all paired off. many of them before they were 25.

The reality is that if you are past 30 and still out there looking for a spouse, you're either shopping the second hand market (do not do that), or you're combing through what's still available and looking for whoever isn't the worst.

This popular 'dating advice' or 'lifestyle advice' or whatever the fuck it is that you should grow old and statmax or build wealth or some other shit before you actually find yourself a life partner is fucking madness. You need to do that when you are young. You definitely need to do that when you are young if you want to have a family, and not because of some mad delusion about eggs or whatever. You need to do that because having a family is a shared life goal and project, and your actual life decisions from you leaving high education need to be made with that shared workload in mind. You cannot both statmax your careers until 30 and then basically toss a coin to see who is going to throw in the towel on their career to stay at home. You have to know that in advance and plan your career moves in advance, because it is fucking insanity to assume that both of you will give 100% to your careers for a decade and then whoever has to walk away won't feel that loss like a strike to the heart. Or refuse to walk away. Then you have a nanny raising the kids.

If one of you is going to be the primary parent, the person who drops everything when the school calls, you figure that the fuck out before any uterus gets occupied. Because that person needs to be shaping their life, their interests, their future focus, with the understanding that for twenty, twenty five years in their prime of their life, they will be the person at the school gates and the PTA and the cooker and the washing machine. They need to come to terms with that expectation and get ready for that life.

Because it is not a life you can just drop into from working ninety hours across six days and expect to feel like anything other than a dead stop.

I knew I had to diversify my career and also take on the management and future direction of my father in law's business before we were even married, let alone before we had kids. So I was always prepared for and working towards that transition. This is why planning to have a family is a joint, long term thing. Nothing happened in our shared life that we hadn't prepared for in work and economic terms, which was just as well as then we had four more kids than expected. If I had expected to hand over a solitary baby to a nanny and then go back to spending weeks in Berlin, our family life would have not been flexible enough to bend in that wind and not break. But instead I was able to do the things I do with a double buggy and a baby carrier, and my children have been my motivation to keep improving rather than some iron bar across my economic progress.

A life together, a family life together, is not some quick build project you throw together in a hurry. It's more like growing a forest. You start early, you plan ahead, and you know it will take time to come to fruition. You start planting your trees early so your children will grow in their shade.

You cannot start doing that in your late fucking thirties.

It is fucking madness to think that two middle aged adults who are already heavily tied into their life goals can just junk them overnight. People are just not that flexible.

It is also absolutely fucking nuts to think that young people in their early twenties want to take on the burden of a middle aged adult ten, fifteen years older than themselves and sublimate their own goals to an old person. A young person looks at this middle aged person and grasps that they will be a well-preserved, healthy fifty-five shackled to a frail seventy year old with early dementia. No one is marrying someone whose arse they expect to wipe.

You have to pair off young. Both of you young. You can't grow together if one of you has already finished growing.

Looking for a spouse to raise a family with is not something you get round to once you have hit your career goals. It is actually the thing you need to figure out first.

 

[Otis Mallebrok]

Women have high standards because when they don't, they are left holding the baby, while mr dipshit fucks around, troons out, or plays computer games six hours a day. High standards are a necessary defense mechanism for women, because the cost of bad mating selection fall disproportionately on the woman.

The real problem today is that too many men have way too low standards with respect to their own behaviour and attitudes. My subjective impression is that the world is full of wonderfull women ready for commitment, who are exasperated with the selection of immature unwashed mongoloids available to them.

Cats are also selfish pricks, but at least they have excellent hygiene and are not that needy.

 

[Dyn]

Why do modern women have such high and unrealistic expectations?

Just take the weekly shower bro it's not worth fighting them on this.

 

[Justa Grata Honoria]

Look, all people regardless of gender have to swallow the reality pill here: everyone who is really clever, or really pretty, or has great prospects in life? By 26, 27, they are all paired off. many of them before they were 25.

Are you telling me a man can't fuck around until 30 and can't get decade younger wife after? You no say!!!