Greta Gustava Martela / Kjel Anderson & Nina Chaubal / Niraj Chaubal - Stole $350k+ from Trans Lifeline, kill count of 2+ from negligence, Founders of Sisterwood/La Zorra.

[NQ 952]

PBX is Private Branch Exchange. It's the software that switches phone calls.

 

[repentance]

Also, do we know for certain that Greta was married twice before meeting Nina? I've heard and read about the first marriage, but I don't recall encountering anything about a second woman pre-TLL/Nina..

Greta himself has referenced this on his timeline. We don't know whether he was talking about his son's mother or not, but he mentioned one of his former spouses watching his timeline for information and also mentioned that he'd been married more than once when an old friend asked about Marian. He's also referenced being divorced and raising his son in interviews.

We know that he's been married at least twice. There was another relationship as well but I'm not sure whether that was a marriage. @zedkissed60 may have more details on that.

Greta only came out as trans in 2013 (which is also the year in which he met Nina, according to his timeline).

Accessibility of marriage and divorce records to the public tends to vary by location. Paid background checks might be a better way to locate them than hoping to hit the right state/county and the right time frame, but commercial services still tend to be hit and miss - especially with respect to older records.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

I was under the impression that doesn't matter now since she was caught and deemed to be here illegally. Marriage afterwards would mitigate or erase that transgression?

Nothing can stop an asylum seeker from getting legally married to a US citizen at any point.

The marriage would be scrutinized far more by the USCIS, but an asylum seeker can get married and then try to become legal that way. If approved, they will drop the asylum claim. In fact it's a pretty common scenario, defensive asylum seekers realize what a tough and expensive ride they are in for (with no guarantees) and that getting married is a far easier, cheaper and safer route to legality.

 

[m0rnutz]

Paid background checks might be a better way to locate them than hoping to hit the right state/county and the right time frame, but commercial services still tend to be hit and miss - especially with respect to older records.

I've used Instant Checkmate to find records. If its someone who regularly pulls the information to light, subscriptions aren't too big a problem.

There are services that run really cheap, less than a dollar a name, but I'm not too sure how accurate those searches are, or even if they're legit.

We're up against someone who found two school girls cute, there's really no telling what you can find in half of these threads.

 

[ADN_VIII]

I've used Instant Checkmate to find records. If its someone who regularly pulls the information to light, subscriptions aren't too big a problem.

There are services that run really cheap, less than a dollar a name, but I'm not too sure how accurate those searches are, or even if they're legit.

We're up against someone who found two school girls cute, there's really no telling what you can find in half of these threads.

I could ask the relative I mentioned earlier in the thread what a federal background check could potentially reveal. But then I'd have to explain my involvement here.

Edit: admittedly, I don't think they care what I do online as long as it isn't illegal.

 

[4Macie]

TLL's motto is that they're here because normal lifelines don't help trans. They only help cis scum.

I bet you anything a regular actual hotline would have helped more trans people in a week than TTLs numbers suggest in a year.

 

[GS 281]

lmao what work?

 

[mayfield]

View attachment 172231

lmao what work?

Olive You? Cocker? I can't tell if they're snowflake troons or legitimate drag queens.

 

[CatParty]

View attachment 172231

lmao what work?

Greta, don't worry no one has been answering calls as usual

 

[NQ 952]

It's funny because if Greta was actually running a business she would have been working feverishly while dealing with the personal drama.

I've never known a successful businessman who actually gets two weeks off. The good ones are always on duty.

 

[Field Marshal Crappenberg]

Greta himself has referenced this on his timeline. We don't know whether he was talking about his son's mother or not, but he mentioned one of his former spouses watching his timeline for information and also mentioned that he'd been married more than once when an old friend asked about Marian. He's also referenced being divorced and raising his son in interviews.

Oh, yes, I completely forgot about that one FB post from Greta. I had a case of information overload, hah. Raising children I've read nothing about. I'll have to read those interviews at some point.

TLL's motto is that they're here because normal lifelines don't help trans. They only help cis scum.

This is a theme Greta and TLL keep promulgating. Cisgender people often mistreat Greta. Racists at the DMV and BP are singling out Nina. The mainstream suicide hotlines have abandoned trans people and cannot be trusted. Trans people are facing genocide here. All of this is bullshit. Cisgender people generally don't fucking care enough about one's gender identity or manner of dress to start conflicts over it, ESPECIALLY trained suicide hotline volunteers. She is thriving off baseless fear that she's trying to engender, and that's one of the many reasons she's a loathsome creature.

 

[ADN_VIII]

What strikes me as fishy, and maybe to others as well, is that most suicide hotline volunteers do what they do because they don't want other people to kill themselves. Whatever their motovation, it's a task they dedicate themselves to. I find it very unlikely that TLL couldn't find a single operator that wouldn't work for them.

 

[Dog Prom 3D]

@Field Marshal Crappenberg, regarding Leelah Alcorn, here's the exact location where @yawning sneasel documented Greta crowing about how TLL evidently failed the doomed teenager: https://kiwifarms.net/threads/trans...stav-kjel-anderson.23222/page-27#post-1673715

Also, after the Trump win, Greta played her own part in rumor mongering. She said she was reaching out to the families of the eight transgender people who allegedly killed themselves immediately after Trump won the election. As we all know that was bullshit and even Snopes debunked it but Greta definitely said TLL was devastated to learn that 8 people, some teenagers, killed themselves because of Trump and she was offering assistance to the families. Here's the entry discussing it: https://kiwifarms.net/threads/trans...stav-kjel-anderson.23222/page-76#post-1869942

I bring this up because for me it was one of Greta's shittier moments because she was clearly trying to exploit potential suicides and spoke about them in such a manner that implied she had direct information, including family information, both contributing to the rumor and trying to pump up TLL as a cutting edge and in the know resource that was helping bereft families of trans-suicides. If others feel similarly grossed out perhaps we could consider adding this event to "exploitation of suicides and related jackassery"?

Also thank you for the master list of links - you are the wind beneath our wings.

 

[Field Marshal Crappenberg]

TL;DR: 6.67% of calls answered from September 12th 2016 to January 6th 2017

TLL Research: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2IXcZj7Ip_kVnNMSUxFSzZvZUk
TLL Call Log: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2IXcZj7Ip_kaW9ISjJZOE1SWDg

So, I just read that report. I was actually expecting much more to have to process than what is there, but that should be expected when only 6 out of 83 calls result in an answer. The salient points to me are:

* The times they were called could have been better, but they were times when the likelihood of availability should have been high.
* This transpired over a period of almost 4 months, so a defense of the experiment being done during a particularly rough or chaotic period is invalid.
* Under 7% of the calls- 5 of 83- resulted in an answer by TLL. A little higher if the Domino's Pizza incident is counted. Even if the 2 misfires by the PBX and the Domino's one are counted, that's a less than 1 in 10 success rate. Even at 2 AM on Monday this rate would be appalling.
* 2 of those 5 were embarrassments. #2 apparently immediately wanted to be sure you were trans enough before proceeding (not unsurprising considering Greta's flagrant cisphobia), and #5 put you on hold before disconnecting you. WTF is this?

I have a few questions.

1.) The "HANGUP" signifier means that you were the one to hangup, and "DISCO" means either they hung up or the system farted, right?
2.) I'm hoping what you wrote was wrong because it's just so inhuman and inept for a suicide hotline volunteer to respond like that, but, was #2 really that terse and inarticulate, or were there more words said back and forth before that stage?
3.) Is there anyway those two documents could also be presented in a PDF format? Maybe I'm in an extreme minority, but I and others don't have Microsoft Office, but I believe everyone has the Adobe program for PDFs.
4.) Does the 76-minute podcast you made have any important data that isn't available in the report?

specifically I believe it was "Trans"

I suggest amending the report to reflect that. If there actually is a stigma about that word attached, it's best not to use it if they only said "trans".

I bring this up because for me it was one of Greta's shittier moments because she was clearly trying to exploit potential suicides and spoke about them in such a manner that implied she had direct information, including family information, both contributing to the rumor and trying to pump up TLL as a cutting edge and in the know resource that was helping bereft families if trans-suicides.

Thank you very much for the direct links! I'm sure that in the process of scanning this thread I will miss certain useful details. I'll review them after I send this off. And, yes, if she's speaking about talking to family members of suicides that didn't exist, that would demonstrate she's lying about that in addition to the distastefulness of exploiting such suicides.

Also, to be frank, 8 suicides on 9 November seems insignificant whether it happened or not. I haven't read anything about that original story and myth debunking, but when I hear "8 transgender people killed themselves when Trump was elected", my impression is "Only 8? Wow, I thought it would be higher. That's such a low number.". Greta and other trans people keep screaming about one trans person being murdered every 32 hours or 20 black trans women being murdered in a year, and it's irrational because those are such low numbers. They have a far greater chance of dying from a car crash or some medical issue than by a murderer's hand. And, let's be truthful here: probably a good number of those few murder victims are in very high-risk populations, such as prostitute or drug abuser or a general moron. Rational, reasonable, healthy trans people aren't much more likely to die or be brutalized than the normal population in the USA, and they are unlikely to want to kill themselves either. This whole open season on trans people narrative is a myth.

 

[GS 281]

So, I just read that report. I was actually expecting much more to have to process than what is there, but that should be expected when only 6 out of 83 calls result in an answer.

The one thing I would have liked to have seen was a statistical test where we could say empirically that there is statistical significance in the difference between response rates for TLL and other suicide lines. That kind of finding would imply that TLL is to the detriment of the transgender community because they are supplying a helping hand that remains outside of the grasp of people who need it over 93% of the time.

Real talk, if Nina and Greta cared, they would be available to take calls themselves, not in California, Florida, Washington, Philly, etc.

There are a few people who should be contacted about this because they are engaged in academic research using TLL. For them to neglect these findings in discussing TLL in conferences or scholarly journal articles would be inappropriate.

 

[patchwork]

Really? I thought "transsexual" was the type of trans person who is the male-to-female/female-to-male type, and "transgender" included them and the assorted gender non-conforming types who may or may not want to have SRS and such. I mean, to me, "transsexual" seems like a technically correct term for the type that Greta and Nina are, just as "homosexual" is for gays and lesbians.

You're not incorrect and the vast majority of people, trans for attention or not, would agree with those definitions. It just needed clarification because generally, a person who doesn't know more than a passing knowledge of what transpeople are would assume everybody who said they are transgender has had the surgery when it's not the case a lot of the time. So if the operator did ask specifically, "Are you transexual?" it'd be really weird considering TLL is intended to be friendly to the whole spectrum of the thing and it'd be off-putting to the generic kiddy who's using the label for attention, not to actually undergo surgery.

 

[repentance]

Thank you very much for the direct links! I'm sure that in the process of scanning this thread I will miss certain useful details. I'll review them after I send this off. And, yes, if she's speaking about talking to family members of suicides that didn't exist, that would demonstrate she's lying about that in addition to the distastefulness of exploiting such suicides.

They fact check nothing. If a rumour supports their narrative - and especially if they can use it to solicit donations - they're happy to spread it. The original source of the comment seems to be Debbie Jackson (Avery Jackson's mum), but TLL was happy to repeat it as gospel, and to give interviews stating it as fact, and didn't back off on the claim until GLAAD started asking the media and activist organisations to stop repeating it.

They really have no problem at all with generating their own "fake news".

 

[Field Marshal Crappenberg]

Real talk, if Nina and Greta cared, they would be available to take calls themselves, not in California, Florida, Washington, Philly, etc.

Oh, definitely. Greta barely ever mentions being on call. Also, it's been determined through multiple means in different periods that Greta and Nina never manned phones. They were traveling instead.

There are a few people who should be contacted about this because they are engaged in academic research using TLL. For them to neglect these findings in discussing TLL in conferences or scholarly journal articles would be inappropriate.

Definitely. I want to see substantial and reputable organizations and people have their attention directed to this matter. I suspect there's a lot of negative and derogatory mumbling about TLL within certain circles already, but nothing that's public and well publicized yet.

 

[Jaimas]

During my initial coverage in the first draft of the TLL article on Lolcow Wiki, there's a few things I noticed that are amiss in their finances and also their claims to the kind of work they did. All of this comes from their own paperwork, so this is what they are publicly admitting to be the case on their own promotional materials. Null already knows all this, and I didn't want to shit up further discussion, but I can cheerfully share something humorous with you guys here.

Spoiler: So About TLL's Paperwork

On page three of TLL's 2015 report, you can see a line-graph indicating calls received. By their own paperwork, they answer about 17% of their own calls. That's not outside sources claiming that, it's TLL themselves. The nearby text says "under 50%," but their graphs show the truth and that it's way less.

Their own materials also indicate openly that they don't call the cops because they claim the cops will kill you if they are called. TLL makes no exception about claiming this to be the case:

They will call the cops on you if they think you’re gonna do it, and then you can be institutionalized without HRT. In a men’s facility. That’s if the cops let you get that far.

But let's not just take the words of the giant sidebar on this one, let's look deeper at the actual text they throw around:

Trans people are at a chronic and acute risk for suicide. When a crisis line uses a risk assessment calibrated for the general population to assess the risk of a trans person, operators frequently call emergency personnel to intervene. Unfortunately, many trans people face violence at the hands of emergency personnel. Fear of that violence prevents transgender people from reaching out for help in their hour of need. Informed by firsthand experiences of our board members and anecdotal evidence from the trans community, Trans Lifeline decided that that our operators would only call emergency personnel with the consent of our callers.

Now, you'll note a complete lack of citations here, and I brought up in the first draft that there's no proof of any claim made here by TLL.

This is unsurprising, but what is surprising is that I actually know for sure where this shit came from, and that shit is none other than Pajeet herself, who shat out this particularly rancid turd and declared it mandatory training material for TLL operators.

The material in question is this fucking thing:

As Taj James writes, “White friends and family, I think we are better off without the police. I think we might be safer, happier, healthier if there were no police. In addition to fewer Black people being killed by those police our life would be much better. I am starting to think we are better off without them. That we don't need them. That if we shut them all down today and transferred all the resources they control to communities to set up systems of community safety and accountability we would all be much happier. My gut is that when white people are able to say ‘Having no police is better than what we have now’ that will reflect the willingness and courage needed to make a fundamental transition from an old system to a new one.”

Taj James, for the uninitiated, is a HuffPo-employed whackjob who believes that the police exist solely to exterminate black people, and who routinely posts shit that makes my longposts look like a "lol calm down" in contrast.

Quick-and-Dirty: The closer you look at TLL's 2015 financial paperwork, the more you can see, by their own admission, what a gigantic clusterfuck TLL is. The biggest thing they say you can do to help stop trans suicide is throw money at TLL, which pretty much makes Greta the equivalent of Tai Lopez.

 

[Field Marshal Crappenberg]

On page three of TLL's 2015 report, you can see a line-graph indicating calls received. By their own paperwork, they answer about 17% of their own calls. That's not outside sources claiming that, it's TLL themselves.

Oh, yes, I noticed this and have mentioned they themselves admit a precipitous decline in answered calls in 2015. As far as I know, they haven't released a report for 2016, but they've only gotten worse in that regard.

This is unsurprising, but what is surprising is that I actually know for sure where this shit came from, and that shit is none other than Pajeet herself, who shat out this particularly rancid turd and declared it mandatory training material for TLL operators.

Oh, I didn't realize Nina had made that steaming pile of ultra-SJW horseshit part of TLL's operator training. I'll have to include that in the litany of bullshit and insanity coming from both Nina and TLL as an organization. I mean, fucking seriously, who would actually believe we should abolish the police? Who do they think will assist and protect them when someone tries to murder them or rob their house? Even if the whole country was black and trans they'd still need police and a justice system.

Quick-and-Dirty: The closer you look at TLL's 2015 financial paperwork, the more you can see, by their own admission, what a gigantic clusterfuck TLL is. The biggest thing they say you can do to help stop trans suicide is throw money at TLL,

The link you provided requires a login to read it. Anyway, yeah, I looked at their budget in their 2015 report (I'm trying to attach it to this but it's not working: maybe my connection is too slow), and they state clearly in there that travel is 26k, and Greta takes 24k, and their estimated income (they extrapolated for Nov and Dec) was 88k. So they themselves admit almost 57% of their income goes to Greta and their incessant traveling.