Military Equipment Sperging Thread - The Tiger II is a better tank than the M1 Abrams edition

74164978231 said:
Now this is where you say real life is no way shape or form like call or duty.
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The 50 cal M2 has been downing air targets for over 100 years. You just aren't thinking big enough
maxson-turret-m45-50-cal-m2-quad-50cal-meat-chopper.jpg
 
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74164978231 said:
Yeah shotguns are the one small arms that have the ability to be effective against drones, at the very least it stops drone operators from flying up to targets and dancing around someone, taunting them before exploding. Pretty retarded neither side hasnt already equiped every swinging dick with a short double barrel shotgun with a dozen rounds of birdshot.
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If you haven't noticed, it's not 1921 anymore. The preferred choice of shotgun these days is a tube-fed autoloader, because that is what allows for a lot of rapid shots and is easily obtainable just by going to the nearest hunting wholesaler and ordering like 50 Benellis or MP-155s if you're Russian.
 
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The Grognard said:
If you haven't noticed, it's not 1921 anymore. The preferred choice of shotgun these days is a tube-fed autoloader, because that is what allows for a lot of rapid shots and is easily obtainable just by going to the nearest hunting wholesaler and ordering like 50 Benellis or MP-155s if you're Russian.
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A 1301 or M4 would certainly be better in the hands of a trained individual, but for general purpose issue by the tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands to soldiers, a short double barrel is the way to go imo. Less weight for the soldier, much easier to employ at a moments notice, not going to get in the way nearly as much when youre doing other soldier things like entering/exiting vehicles going into a trench etc. more reliable, cheap enough that you could realistically get one in the hands of almost every soldier


WelperHelper99 said:
The 50 cal M2 has been downing air targets for over 100 years. You just aren't thinking big enough
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Maybe you should look at the size of the targets it was downing in the 20th century v whats crawling all over eastern Ukraine.
 
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74164978231 said:
A 1301 or M4 would certainly be better in the hands of a trained individual, but for general purpose issue by the tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands to soldiers, a short double barrel is the way to go imo. Less weight for the soldier, much easier to employ at a moments notice, not going to get in the way nearly as much when youre doing other soldier things like entering/exiting vehicles going into a trench etc. more reliable, cheap enough that you could realistically get one in the hands of almost every soldier
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This is fucking stupid. Even if the issue is cost or size, you can just start issuing shortened pump-actions instead of self-loading if you are really that desperate for them. Weight difference is not big, people can be trained on them on an afternoon, and the idea that somehow, self-loading shotguns aren't reliable was already disproven by John Moses Browning. If you wanted an actual problem to look at, that would be integrating shotguns to the supply chain.

As for how I would integrate them in the Finnish system, I would issue about 5 per platoon and have them be issued at volunteer basis but not as a replacement for their main rifle.
 
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The Grognard said:
This is fucking stupid. Even if the issue is cost or size, you can just start issuing shortened pump-actions instead of self-loading if you are really that desperate for them. Weight difference is not big, people can be trained on them on an afternoon, and the idea that somehow, self-loading shotguns aren't reliable was already disproven by John Moses Browning. If you wanted an actual problem to look at, that would be integrating shotguns to the supply chain.

As for how I would integrate them in the Finnish system, I would issue about 5 per platoon and have them be issued at volunteer basis but not as a replacement for their main rifle.
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Its the mechanics. Put on full kit with a full sized rifle then sling a pump action shotgun on your back. How handy is that shotgun going to be when you need to employ it at a moments notice maneuvering threw trenches or bounding between vehicles?

And if youre cutting it down so its much easier to carry and employ, youve neutered its ammo capacity and then might as well go with a 6-8 inch double(or hell go full chiapa triple barrel) barrel where you also get the massive added benefit of throwing twice as much lead into the air at once.
 
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74164978231 said:
Its the mechanics. Put on full kit with a full sized rifle then sling a pump action shotgun on your back. How handy is that shotgun going to be when you need to employ it at a moments notice maneuvering threw trenches or bounding between vehicles?

And if youre cutting it down so its much easier to carry and employ, youve neutered its ammo capacity and then might as well go with a 6-8 inch double(or hell go full chiapa triple barrel) barrel where you also get the massive added benefit of throwing twice as much lead into the air at once.
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Even something like a Serbu Super Shorty would have more actual capacity than a fucking twin-barreled shotgun.
 
Sargon's wife's son said:
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Someone in the military thought to themselves what if we could make a really really ugly looking paladin with an obnoxiously long barrel and act surprised that having a massive barrel hanging that far with absolutely no additional support would cause wear and tear on the barrel and make the gun have structural issues who could have thought that.

Someone thought to themselves who needs to load this onto a ship and make sure it doesn't constantly have its barrel hitting into things this is 100% a great design is the thing.


You know you could mount the chassis towards the back of the tank and pull the barrel into the overall hole of the tank Nah just strap longer with barrel to a paladin
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The US Army's incompetence with SPHs post M109 never cease to amaze me.

The Pzh2000 and K9 are objectively better howitzers and the Chinese PLZ-05 and Russian Msta are either as good or better.
 
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The Grognard said:
Even something like a Serbu Super Shorty would have more actual capacity than a fucking twin-barreled shotgun.
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A serbu shorty carries 3 rounds.
Falcos_Commisar said:
The US Army's incompetence with SPHs post M109 never cease to amaze me.

The Pzh2000 and K9 are objectively better howitzers and the Chinese PLZ-05 and Russian Msta are either as good or better.
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US Military arms procurement has been pants on head retarded since the early 90s.

OICW was a failure that morphed into seperate XM8 and XM25 platforms which where both failures
Future Combat Systems(Abrams, Bradley, m113, Paladin replacements) was a failure
F35 has been a horrendously plagued development that saw the light of day due to so much riding on it
Commance was a failure
Zummwault was a spectacular failure
LCS was a spectacular failure
EFV was a failure

The list is just endless. Not sure if its defense contractors trying to milk the few contracts given out nowadays or retards in the military who think mission creep and incorporating every single new piece of tech are how you properly design something.
 
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MIC Shill said:
God no, those drone missions have like, a 20% hit rate. Much less reliable than lobbing a missile from a Reaper.
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Yeah, we only see their hits or very near misses
74164978231 said:
50 cal would be absolutely worthless against a small 3-4 foot diameter drone(and really pretty worthless for aa outside of low slow flying helos)
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Uhhh what???

Russia and Ukraine have both shown drones getting shot down by GPMGs, assault rifles and shotguns....
TiggerNits said:
The old EA6Bs could jam every freq drones can operate off of for a solid 40 mile radius, they could shut down hoppers and encrypted signals out to 60 with wide area denial, over 90 if it was single signal denial.

The growler is twice as good and we can fit some amazing equipment in everything from a Cessna 172 to a 737 and make it look like civil traffic while doing similar shit.

I assure you, drones are awesome weapons, but they are easier to defend against than IEDs with buried leads and random RPG ambushes against national guard units that pulled duty on the wing side of the wire.
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Yep any radio signal can be jammed with enough patience or power.
WelperHelper99 said:
Electronic warfare is something that gets missed often. Its easy to see a drone drop a little bomb and go "future", but that just means whoever you're fighting against is either not advanced enough to cut those signals, or doesn't want to blast his own frequencies too. It us the ultimate counter to the drone problem.
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Exactly. Now Ukraine and Russia are starting to use wire guided drones that have some severe limitations
74164978231 said:
Regardless, actual warfare has very clearly shown small arms are not remotely effective against drones. Russians and Ukrainians being slaughtered endessly the past 3 years has proven this
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...... Bruh both sides have shown guys shooting down drones with basic AK-74s/47s and shotguns.

A Benelli M4 and Beretta 1301 series will go bang just fine for hundreds of not thousands of shells.....
WelperHelper99 said:
That is what FULL AUTO is for you retard. Do you even know how many planes 50 cal shot down in WW2 ALONE, not counting any other conflicts????
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Not to mention little radars guiding them, lasers guiding them and Electro optical guidance.


Shit they're using M240s on part of this demonstration
74164978231 said:
Shooting down a fpv style drone with an M2 should be considered an act of god, not something remotely realistic.
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..... Tell that to radar, laser and EO guided .50 cals

Here's a manually operated one killing a Shahed


And here's a year old demonstration of an EO targeting system killing mobile drones at 500 and 1500 meters....


As for muh .50 cal smoke.... Here's a Turkish .50 cal in a RWS firing on and seeing an ISIS or PKK ATGM incoming.....

 
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Falcos_Commisar said:
Exactly. Now Ukraine and Russia are starting to use wire guided drones that have some severe limitations
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They are just hillbilly ATGM's with less punch but slightly more maneuverability. Just give me a damn TOW at that point, fuck my life, at least that thing kills what it hits and moves faster than a drone
Falcos_Commisar said:
Not to mention little radars guiding them, lasers guiding them and Electro optical guidance.

https://youtu.be/kYGvvlX7cuc?si=GM5qFsf_C7-wzOIr
Shit they're using M240s on part of this demonstration
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Yeah its almost like guns won't be obsolete for another hundred years or something....
 
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WelperHelper99 said:
As long as lead still hurts, it won't. 308 and 30-06 still hurts like it did when it first came out. Same with a musket
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Chemical propulsion is just far too efficient and self contained to be easily or readily replaced and kinetic force is likewise.
 
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