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"Hamas is finished" says increasingly worried yid for the 300th time since Oct. 7
2023 Israel-Palestine Armed Conflict
- Thread starter Enoch Emery
- Start date
x3firehexx
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They act eerily similar to a group of apes that have been injected with lsd and let in a small cage
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Show of strength?
Israel had to give up. Hamas is in control and armed.
Maori Kiwifruit Growers
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no. Hamas claims they're dead but if that's the case, give us the corpse. We all know they keep the corpses on ice
But what do they rule over? One small city and some rubble?
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Israel's goal was to disarm Hamas and remove it from power.
So they show armed soldiers under Hamas command celebrating, as they send hostages off to be traded for captured comrades.
Maori Kiwifruit Growers
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So I'm watching i24 right now and they said "hamas: we will stick to crasefire if israel does" and they have clips of those hamas guys with aks in trucks and omg so many hamas guys are straight up BLACK.
They jave Dr. Harrl Chorev on and he's saying a bunch of intetesting stuff. He says that the battles will continue soon.
look at this map
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/co...aining_german_forces_by_the_8th_of/?rdt=44415
and the situation was even more dire in Asia.
They jave Dr. Harrl Chorev on and he's saying a bunch of intetesting stuff. He says that the battles will continue soon.
Remember when we defeated the axis there were still massive army groups which existed in both europe and Asia that had guns and fighters. The question is, how effective are they? Not to sound smart, but how far realistically do you think you and your boys could go against the police or even the state troopers? You won't last long. I think the IDF is waiting for Hamas to violate the cease fire agreement to then go after Hamas in a manner greater than before. But remember even in the West Bank the Palestinian Authority is actively fighting terrorists in Jenin. When Israel is not involved these groups fall to infighting and I wouldn't be shocked that like cartels, after Israel starts pulling back different groups will sprout up and start killing each other like in Syria (different I know). There are many lose weapons running around.
look at this map
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/co...aining_german_forces_by_the_8th_of/?rdt=44415
and the situation was even more dire in Asia.
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I was responding to the question why they might have done it the way they did.
I have no opinion on what will happen next.
Also, I'm not Hamas. Where did you even get that idea?
I have no opinion on what will happen next.
Also, I'm not Hamas. Where did you even get that idea?
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One small city and a pile of rubble that you failed to conquer after a year and a half with cutting edge military technology and bottomless support from the wealthiest and most powerful countries on earth.
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- Dec 17, 2019
I might be biased here, but I would add the idea that war = politics is taught and treated as an objective fact and not a theory or opinion to the list of "why western civilization is doomed".
Western armies can win wars all day long, but it becomes useless when western governments forever see enemies as rational human beings with respectable disagreements, and not hostile civilizations that need to be brought to ruin.
Maori Kiwifruit Growers
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This is the aerial view of the hostage parade hamas just had. Look how small the crowd is.
Israel had to pull out not because it couldn't do it but because the West wouldn't let it. Remember the west makes Israel it's planes and smart bombs (who then buy them cheaply) without that Israel has to resort to mass dumb bombing something which only the Russians do (because the Russians do not have enough stratgeic material). And even if the USA/the West completely removed aid from Israel they will go to Russia or China (like how they went to the South African when the French pulled back it's aid to get in bed with the arabs and America didn't really give Israel much support).
This stupid way of looking at the world is quite exhausting tbh. It's not so simple it's very complicated.
The Muslims never got the enlightenment so they don't view the world through those lenses. They believe in an all or nothing approach.
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In 1967, Israel tripled its land and defeated 3 (4 if you count Iraq) nations in less than a week. Hamas is the weakest enemy Israel has faced so far and controls a tiny strip of land the size of New Jersey. They had a year and a half, and endless support from the unrivaled global superpower of our time.
They failed.
The two goals the Israeli government kept repeating over and over these past 450+ days were:
- Destroy Hamas
- Rescue the hostages
@Mysterious Girlfriend X Very kek and dank meme my friend but what does this add to the conversation ?
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I'm guessing the Israelis value the relationship with the United States and the military assistance they provide far more than their desire to genocide the Palestinians.
A few things:
Egypt came nowhere close to Israel proper, and by some accounts, had zero interest in doing so. By October 9-10, the lines in the Sinai stabilized, as the Egyptians failed to make further gains in the Sinai. The decisive battle against the Egyptians (The Battle of the Sinai) happened on October 14th, which was already a decisive Israeli victory EVEN BEFORE the first US aircraft landed in Israel.
The Golan front, which was the far bigger threat to Israel proper, was already stabilized by October 10th, before US resupply could even begin.
Dude, the Israelis were on the path of winning the Yom Kippur War even before Operation Nickel Grass could have an effect. So no, the US didn't save Israel from being destroyed by Egypt.
No doubt the Israelis of the time greatly appreciated the military aid, but it didn't save Israel, it only helped them kick Egyptian ass that much harder in the following days.
But I'll remind you of your initial argument:
Explain, again, how Israel wound up almost getting conquered by Egypt, again? Can you explain how Operation Nickel Grass was paramount to their victory on October 14th against the Egyptians when the first US planes didn't land until after the battle was concluded?
There was no IDF presence in Gaza before October 7, 2023. What exactly was their goal in carrying out October 7, exactly? Pretty sure they had more lofty goals than just kill a few Jews and kidnap a few more.
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GoGoNoJo
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Their goal was to scuttle Saudi-Israel normalization talks and to provoke an Israeli backlash that would generate sympathy for Palestinians and harm Israel's reputation abroad. @Maori Kiwifruit Growers mentioned that Israel was forced from Gaza not because they were unable to defeat Hamas military (I don't think anyone doubts that Israel could destroy Hamas if they threw public opinion to the wind and just killed literally every single Palestinian in Gaza), but because of pressure from the West. Why is the West pressuring Israel to end the war? Why did Steve Witkoff, the Middle East envoy of the notoriously pro-Israel Trump, so forcefully demand that Netanyahu implement the ceasefire? It's because of the pro-Palestinian backlash generated by Israel's response to October 7th. Thousands of people protested the war in Gaza, set up encampments in Universities throughout the nation, and denounced the very existence of of Israel as a Jewish state. Protests of this scale and ferocity were unthinkable prior to the war in Gaza, and they've sent the geopolitical planners of the State Department into a panic. This wasn't supposed to happen - the Arab-Israeli conflict was supposed to be winding down, Israel was supposed to begin thawing relations with the Saudis, the US was supposed to pivot away from the Middle East. That is why the West is pressuring Israel to end the war - they want this backlash to fade away, they want people to stop caring about Gaza, they want Israel to normalize relations with Saudi Arabia, and they want to stop putting out Middle Eastern bushfires. How do you make that happen? Simple. You end the war.
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Maori Kiwifruit Growers
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The difference also is that those armies were real armies. they had battle groups. they had tactics. they had everything, Hamas is not a real Army in the sense. it's not a state Army. it's effectively across between a terrorist group a a. cartel, a religious charity, a local government, and an arm of Iran. the entire Egyptian Army goes away in a single battle. people back home are going to be very angry. families will have angry wives and angry sons. and these angry people will not just be angry at Israel. they'll be angry at the government. Hamas doesn't have that, because the battle is so small it doesn't matter. it's also important to recognize that when Israel did capture the land or was starting to win the Arabs threatened the Soviet Union and screamed at the United Nations which then caused the country's to force the Israelis to stop advancing.
the 1967 6-day war was also technically started by Israel. now the war was going to happen regardless but Israel fired the first shot and sure they had a strategic advantage, fired the first shot in this war. if anything, this war is closer than 1973. which ultimately resulted in an unchanged status quo. Israel has been effective against insurgent groups, the Palestinian liberation organization became the Palestinian Authority and they went against Israel in the 2nd intafada (and the first but that's secondary). The Palestinian Authority for as much of it's a pain in the ass, is not very powerful. The controls the areas the Israelis allow them to control.
but remember Israel is not an all-powerful country, unlike what /pol/ other Arabs and even the Israelis would like you to think Israel is not very strong. Israel does this in order to prevent itself from being attacked. it's strong but small and does punch well above its weight class but it is not the United States. Israel also doesn't want to have to rule over 7 million Arabs who hate it. they would rather rule over Jews or a small Arab minority. so barring literally murdering them, which is not going to happen, or actually ethnically cleansing them, which didn't happen. concessions must be made.
Israel can control the entire West Bank and it can't control the entire Gaza strip, however, the manpower and material necessary to do that will be compelled with the United States had to put into control Iraq and Afghanistan. It's hard to win hearts and minds when the enemy keeps ripping up the water pipes you lay and using them make ieds to kill you, your civilians and the enemies civilians.
Israeli society and Arab society are night and day different. and 80+ years of Israeli statehood has made many arab Israelis culturally different from their Palestinian cousins Arab society is deeply conservative, heavily tribal and culturally not very western (see their war fighting as a perfect example, they focus on terror waves as opposed to tactics).While Arab Israelis are more western in their outlooks and as such aren't outwardly as violent (internally is a different story they kill each other still over tribal nonsense).
Israelis are western in their thinking and their actions. They don't focus on barbarism but instead choose a tactical approach to their actions, and their government is actually western in nature, as opposed to other regional countries where they claim they're Western but in reality they're not.
So unless you are willing to actually genocide the Arabs you have to find ways to live with them.
GoGoNoJo
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And therein lies the rub for Israel. They can't just straight up exterminate the Palestinians (because that would generate a massive backlash that would force the US to stop them), but they don't want to incorporate them into Israel (for obvious demographic reasons) and they don't want them to have a state of their own (for obvious rocket reasons), so the Palestinians are left in this weird limbo that (when combined with the West Bank settlers) just pisses them off.
Honestly I'm not sure where we go from here. Israel's strategy pre-Oct 7 of slowly strangling the Palestinians via settlers and blockades seemed to be going pretty well, but October 7th put the kibosh on that. Maybe just set up a massive Korea style DMZ along Gaza/the West Bank and hope for the best?
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Maybe I'm old, but pro-Palestinian chimpouts in the West are nothing new. Certainly doesn't help that Europe/Canada/The US has imported more sandniggers over the last 20 years, but nothing happening in Western countries is all that new or surprising. Once the leftie retards stop chimping about Gaza, they'll start up on climate change, or muh Drumpf, or the next dead black criminal killed by a cop.
I also remember the previous "backlashes" to whatever Israeli response to whatever action by Hamas or some other terrorist sandnigger group, so that's not exactly new either. The fact that we saw Arab countries cooperate with Israel against Iran openly is a far bigger development than any sort of perceived backlash.
I'm going to press a massive X to doubt that these leftie protests have any reasoning to why Donald Trump and the incoming administration wanted this exchange and ceasefire. More likely, having US hostages held by sandniggers for over a year is a sign of weakness by the United States (alongside the US's rather weak response to aggression by the Houthis, Iranian attacks upon US bases in the Middle East, etc etc), and Trump would prefer getting US citizens freed and out of risk of being killed. Trump doesn't like looking weak, and what's 1000 Palestinians Israel can kill in Gaza in a few months compared to the lives of Americans? Especially when the brunt of that shit deal falls upon Israel (or the Biden administration) rather than the United States anyway?
Golden Apple
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in 1967 people cared a whole lot less about soft pawing the enemy. Look what the US did in Vietnam between 55 and 75. The US allowed 60k US deaths in a foreign country, many of whom were drafted and did not go willingly. We coated the jungles in Agent Orange and fucked off leaving retarded mutant babies in our wake.
Comparing a war in *faggy limp dick present time* to a war back in the 60s is retarded apples to oranges. Different mindset.
I'm pretty sure if Israel had a 60's morality and modern weapons Gaza would be flattened and fertilized with the bones of dead Pallies.
I can't tell if you're that retarded or just being intentionally disingenuous.
Maori Kiwifruit Growers
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Well there is a way out, but it requires the Palestinians to be adults about the situation. Here is what could occur (assume for all of these Israel officially demarcates the border):
a) gaza and what's left of the west bank are given back to egypt and Jordan
b) same but they are semi-autonomous regions like Iraqi Kurdistan.
c) The west bank becomes it's own state and so does the gaza strip (so a 3 state solution)
d) same as c) but a two state solution
e) the states and Israel federalize as per the 1948 un resolution and create one state with a unified currency and a governmental system like the EU.
in all of my ideas (except A & B) the Palestinians are demilitarized like Japan is. Israel deals with the foreign protection and that's it.
now for ANY of these to happen the Palestinians must be willing to actually compromise and be open to building a real state. there was hope with the Oslo courts that they were going to finally stop the whole terrorism shtick and return the state building. what happened was that everyone immediately realized that the Arab groups had nothing in common but fighting Israel and immediately succumbed to interfighting. those countries need dictators or kings. but that won't happen because it's not popular in the west to say it.
we can come up with all the peace deals we want and we have, but until the Palestinians are willing to finally acknowledge that they are not getting the land back to the way it was before 1948, only then will there be peace.
But for as long as there are people promoting this idea of revolution and liberals and college campuses, teaching this nonsense idea that you can remove a sovereign un state, then the Palestinians will suffer one historical outcome. they will be beaten and they will be fought until they are turned into a minority minority. forced to live on a tiny reservation with only their memories left.
The difference between the Palestinians than the Jews or even the Palestinians and the Druze, is at both the Jews and the Druze, tie their ethnic religious and cultural history to the land. same with the Samaritans. the Palestinians do not. they can make all the claims they want about how their grandfather lived there, but at the end of the day their religion points them towards Mecca. everything else is ancillary. they're not going to fight as hard as a Jew would or a Druze, because they know that their religion isn't threatened.
if Israel goes away there is no country where the Jews can be safe. I mean look at this forum for example. this is probably the only thread where you can have a very serious conversation about about the Jews without it turning into shit and even then it turns into shit. the Palestinians, Are Muslims and Arabs. they can move to any Arab country or any Muslim country and feel right at home.
So ask yourself at the end of the day, who's going to fight harder? the man who knows he can go anywhere and be able to build a life, or the man that always knows that this is his last chance and if he fails he dies?
that's why the Palestinians like to say that the Jews aren't from Israel. then they like to push this narrative but they don't understand that we were kicked out of Europe. they were not treated as citizens of our own country and we're not treated as people. frankly, the only country that would give any Jews equal rights and true equal rights, is Israel and the United States. But the Homeland for the Jews is not the USA (and to be frank the only group it really is a homeland to are the various native tribes- and that's why they support Israel if they know anything about the conflict) it is Israel.
My hope is that one day when the world isn't looking Israel will do what nessary and build a big fucking dmz around the parts of Gaza and the West bank it doesn't want and call it quits.
their goal also was to invade Israel link up with the West Bank attack. all the prisons released thousands of convicted, terrorists and murders, and their hope was while this was going on the the Arab Israelis would riot against the Jews, in a manner similar to what they would do before the foundation of Israel (going to Jewish neighborhoods. kill a bunch of them rape a bunch of them burn their houses. that's sort of wonderful stuff). All while this was going on, Hezbollah would finally invade from the north conquer the entire Galilee, and probably then some shooting all its rockets into Tel Aviv and all the cities while the syrians would shoot their rockets and maybe invade. while the irgc and the Iranians fired their missiles and after this multi-front war they would win Israel. kill all the Arabs that work with the Israelis, force any educated Jew into slavery. take the women sex slaves and establish an Islamic as sex slaves and establishing Islamic state.
but that never happened. because the problem is that the axis of resistance is very high on its own supply. because the problem is that the axis of resistance is very high on its own supply. see the problem that the Muslims have, is that the religious ones? view every action as being guided by God. and that it will be a success because it will be a success because God says it will be a success. as opposed to the Jews who view their success and their victories as proof of Divine Providence.
quick example. many religious Jews will say that Israel won the 1948 war of independence and the Six-Day War and Yom Kippur because that is proof that God sanctions this and we are doing the right thing. because how else could we have defeated the massive Arab armies alone?
the Arabs as per Islam, they believe that they must win because God says they must win. and if you disagree, that's because you're planning wrong because God is the best planner and it will happen on his timetable.
it is an inability to accept personal wrongdoing.
Judaism (and to an extent Christianity, but I'm not Christian so I can't clearly talk about that) shares the belief that God gave man the judgment to be able to survey and control his battles. however, God's hand and will will be involved in ensuring that you survive and that the tactics happen in your favor. (The IED doesn't go off, you don't get shot in the face, that sort of stuff). while the Muslims believe that everything from tactics to execution of those tactics, is determined by God alone and that you are a mere actor in his play. (or if you're really autistic, think of it as a game of battlefield versus a paradox game- Jews and Christians view it as a game of battlefield while Muslims view it as a paradox game)
it's one of the reasons why they're never really good at military engagements with the west. because unless their enemies route and run they aren't equipped for fighting.
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