The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Chugger]

The guy who said mass graves existed in the first place said they were to treat Typhus, so is he right or wrong? If he's right then the mass graves are from hygenic treatment of disease. If he's wrong then ther are no mass graves since he's the key witness in saying they existed. Either way you lose thanks for not playing yet again.

This is a sure as shit sign you're an idiot
the quote in question is

“In summer 1942 the large amount of rotting corpses that had ac-
cumulated led to a typhus epidemic. In addition, the odor was so in-
tense as to render the admission of new transports impossible. It was
therefore necessary to find means of mitigation. They then began to
cremate the bodies."

So the graves clearly existed before cremation, which means they weren't created for the purposes of "treating" Typhus lol . And they're not the only reason given for why cremation was decided on anyway.

Normally your posts don't merit a response, but this was pretty funny.

 

[fresh pair of socks]

So cremating 20,000 adult bodies would occupy 70,000 liters or 70 cubic meters.

Kola reported 20,000 cubic meters of grave space.

Remember when you posted this to try and prove finding mass graves with ashes meant 150k people died? This was your math. During this conversation I, along with a few others, said this study failed to produce any concrete information. It didn't prove how many people died; it didn't prove how they died; it didn't even prove how many people were buried in the graves. You said that all of that could be inferred from the fact that the graves were found at an extermination camp.

Now we've come full circle. The ashes can be anywhere: buried in the ground, blown away by a breeze, used as fertilizer, thrown in a river. This is why facts are important. All of your math tried to disguise the fact that even your own study couldn't say what was in the grave. The fact that they didn't even try to test the remains speaks for itself.

I don't have to come up with a theory as to what happened to them; I wouldn't do so anyway. How many people died? We don't know. How were they killed? We don't know. They could have been killed by Typhus, but we cannot say for certain. The people exhuming the graves could have tried testing the remains, but they chose not to. Those are the people who ad access to the information, but made sure nothing specific was reported. I guess you can do that when you make it culturally damaging or flat out illegal to ask questions.

 

[Bonesjones]

This is a sure as shit sign you're an idiot
the quote in question is

Hey look you don't understand cause and effect because you are a retard.

In summer 1942 the large amount of rotting corpses that had ac-
cumulated led to a typhus epidemic. In addition, the odor was so in-
tense as to render the admission of new transports impossible. It was
therefore necessary to find means of mitigation. They then began to
cremate the bodies."

So they admit they weren't genociding people. Since why do you care about spreading diseases to people you are about to murder. So again you lose.

So the graves clearly existed before cremation, which means they weren't created for the purposes of "treating" Typhus lol . And they're not the only reason given for why cremation was decided on anyway.

So they didnt plan on killing anyone? Since they would have done a better job of burying them the first time if it was a concern. Wow not looking good for your holocaust narrative yet again.

Normally your posts don't merit a response, but this was pretty funny.

My posts never merit a response but you can't stop yourself anyway. Sounds like that humiliation addiction is kicking in.

 

[Chugger]

Remember when you posted this to try and prove finding mass graves with ashes meant 150k people died? This was your math.

I've never done this (said the remains and graves prove so and so many people died). I've explicitly said they don't prove an amount.

You're getting the camps confused. In that post I was talking about Belzec, where no evidence suggests the ashes were put anywhere but back into the graves.

I was posting those stats to show that it wouldn't make sense to dig tens of thousands cubic meters of grave space to house ashes.

It's strong circumstantial evidence of mass killing. There's also direct evidence (documentary and witness) that killing occurred at these places.

I don't have to come up with a theory as to what happened to them; I wouldn't do so anyway. How many people died? We don't know. How were they killed? We don't know. They could have been killed by Typhus, but we cannot say for certain.

20,000 cubic meters of grave space is room to house 200,000 people if the bodies are placed carefully. The grave space at Chelmno evidences a mass burial operation. The nature of Chelmno camp (it was very small, not a labor camp, inside a town so lots of witnesses) suggests people weren't recuperating there. The witness and documentary evidence states that the people sent there were non-employable, and then there was a mass killing/euthanasia operation (this is in the documents, which you don't care about, fine, but it's there). In light of all this it is very silly to presume as plausible that the the 20,000 cubic meters of grave space were meant to house a few thousand Typhus victims, or even a hundred thousand.

 

[fresh pair of socks]

I've never done this (said the remains and graves prove so and so many people died). I've explicitly said they don't prove an amount.

Right, everything you have said is circumstantial, nothing of substance or fact.

You're getting the camps confused. In that post I was talking about Belzec

The math for how much space ashes take up only applies to one camp? That's a new one. My point was no matter the case, you have the same fuzzy math and lack of logic.

The examples are the same; a camp seems to have a mass grave nearby. Yet, when you examine the graves, they don't find any proof of extermination. All you get are sand, burned wood, and charcoal. No one can provide any real evidence to say for sure what happened.

Circumstantial isn't a replacement for direct evidence.

 

[Chugger]

The examples are the same; a camp seems to have a mass grave nearby. Yet, when you examine the graves, they don't find any proof of extermination. All you get are sand, burned wood, and charcoal. No one can provide any real evidence to say for sure what happened.

Circumstantial isn't a replacement for direct evidence.

" All you get are sand, burned wood, and charcoal. "
100% wrong. If you look at Kola's Belzec study he refers to thousands of cubic meters of crematory contents. And the Chelmno researchers found "crushed human bone" But how much is the question. Mattogno admits that in some of Kola drill samples the crematory layers were up to 50% human remains. The mean is lower than this but where exactly? With Chelmno, Mattogno says the researchers tested samples they took from the graves and determined that the human part was "a few percent".

All this may not sound like much, but I should remind you of the human ash volume conversion), 500 average weight persons = 1 cubic meter of ash

Assuming the sample taken was a fair representation and we judge that 1% of the grave space is of human origin, we get 200 cubic meters of human remains, or (200 cu m x 500) 100,000 people.

This is why I say there is a high likelihood that there are lots of human remains down there. If Kola's described crematory layers, were 10% human, you also get hundreds of thousands of people. The counter to this is the Nazis distributed the ash of very few people across vast crematory layers (if you add these all up it comes to thousands of cubic meters likely). This seems senseless to me. If you're cremating a few people you just dump the ashes in the grave, you don't need to mix it in vast crematory layers.

You think I'm crazy for this?

 

[Bonesjones]

I've never done this (said the remains and graves prove so and so many people died). I've explicitly said they don't prove an amount.

"I didn't say anything ever, I'm definitely not dodging"

You're getting the camps confused. In that post I was talking about Belzec, where no evidence suggests the ashes were put anywhere but back into the graves.

"See I was talking about something else irrelevant, I wasn't wrong"

I was posting those stats to show that it wouldn't make sense to dig tens of thousands cubic meters of grave space to house ashes.

"See you'd never dig a giant hole to put one thing in it, you'd use it for another thing that is exactly what I need for my argument to make sense"

It's strong circumstantial evidence of mass killing. There's also direct evidence (documentary and witness) that killing occurred at these places.

Yet zero scientific evidence. Therefor nothing.

20,000 cubic meters of grave space is room to house 200,000 people if the bodies are placed carefully.

"You could fill a football stadium with dead people if you wanted, so football stadiums are mass graves"

The grave space at Chelmno evidences a mass burial operation.

Nope. No scientific backing.

The nature of Chelmno camp (it was very small, not a labor camp, inside a town so lots of witnesses) suggests people weren't recuperating there.

"It was a tiny little camp in a tiny little village, stuffed to the brim with 3000 people and 150k dead jews"

The witness and documentary evidence states that the people sent there were non-employable

Yet no scientific evidence to prove any of it.

and then there was a mass killing/euthanasia operation (this is in the documents, which you don't care about, fine, but it's there)

"I can back up everything I say by gesturing vaguely in the direction of facts and hoping you find it for me"

In light of all this it is very silly to presume as plausible that the the 20,000 cubic meters of grave space were meant to house a few thousand Typhus victims, or even a hundred thousand.

"So I can't be wrong, so you'll have to take my word for it despite having nothing to show for it. Also here's some more quotes ripped from the holocaust controversy blog where I steal unsorted material from known forgers"

 

[Honest Fan Soni-chan]

I'm convinced at this point that nobody legitimately believes in the Holocaust and hasn't for a long time. People just say they do because they benefit from the narrative, because they're paid to, or because they're afraid to deny it. And that fear has great reason behind it; people have been killed for that.

 

[Kiwi Sneed Snake]

I've been reading the last 3/4 pages of the thread and @Chugger has brought up a good point, the crushed bones.

How did the evis nazis do this???

So we have gas chambers, check. For killing the jews + witnesses.

We have crematoriums, check. For burning the jews + witnesses.

Where are the crushers/smashers?

How do you crush 5 million+ skeletons without any witnesses or device to do so? Did they use giant presses? Elephants? Steam rollers? Where is the evidence or witnesses of this crushing process or the device used to do it?
Even a few hundred thousand would require some sort of planning and equipment? Is there any evidence as to how this was accomplished?
While cremation leaves some bone material it wouldn't be enough to cover the area discussed even with two or three hundred thousand bodies.

 

[Chugger]

I've been reading the last 3/4 pages of the thread and @Chugger has brought up a good point, the crushed bones.

How did the evis nazis do this???

So we have gas chambers, check. For killing the jews + witnesses.

We have crematoriums, check. For burning the jews + witnesses.

Where are the crushers/smashers?

How do you crush 5 million+ skeletons without any witnesses or device to do so? Did they use giant presses? Elephants? Steam rollers? Where is the evidence or witnesses of this crushing process or the device used to do it?
Even a few hundred thousand would require some sort of planning and equipment? Is there any evidence as to how this was accomplished?
While cremation leaves some bone material it wouldn't be enough to cover the area discussed even with two or three hundred thousand bodies.

This has been covered https://kiwifarms.st/threads/the-holocaust-thread.68380/page-45#post-10115327

It's also a fact that when you incinerate a body the bones get brittle and much easier to break. No elephants necessary. Hammers.

 

[Bonesjones]

This has been covered https://kiwifarms.st/threads/the-holocaust-thread.68380/page-45#post-10115327

It's also a fact that when you incinerate a body the bones get brittle and much easier to break. No elephants necessary. Hammers.

So your big response is someone asking if they had one?

Then another letter about a ball mill which can be used to crush bones in the same way a mortar and pestle can.

It's also a link to your favorite holocaust forgery website.

Why can't you actually produce one?

 

[Fat Gollum]

I actually survived the holocaust.

 

[FunPosting101]

330 pages of bullshit and nobody is close to convincing anyone of anything at all. I personally think the holocaust happened mostly as described, but I also see little benefit in arguing with deniers on the internet. So I'll just reply to a few posts I noticed and be on my way.

N.B. a majority of German losses were in the final eighteen months of the war. So "inflicted 80% of German casualties " means "butchering a fuckton of grandpas and Cub Scouts." And we know open-ended rape and slaughter were the Soviets' real specialty, you don't need to tell us.

Moreover, when you factor in POWs taken into the losses category, (as you should, since those are still losses) what the soviets did becomes much less impressive in this regard.

A final solution to a thirst you never knew you had.
View attachment 5987950

I don't care what you think about "teh joos"; if you wouldn't give Abigail a good deep dicking you're a bigger faggot than her "little" brother.

View attachment 6045953

That image can't be real, that is just way too much of a stereotypically "Jewish" pose.

 

[Betonhaus]

That image can't be real, that is just way too much of stereotypically "jewish" pose.

It contained the person's name so surely you could find independent pictures that prove or disprove. Did you miss The General Antisemitism Thread?

 

[FunPosting101]

It contained the person's name so surely you could find independent pictures that prove or disprove. Did you miss The General Antisemitism Thread?

I wasn't actually arguing whether the image was real or not, I was more expressing my shock that someone would have that sort of posture or whatever, my apologies for any confusion.

 

[Kola]

330 pages of bullshit and nobody is close to convincing anyone of anything at all. I personally think the holocaust happened mostly as described, but I also see little benefit in arguing with deniers on the internet. So I'll just reply to a few posts I noticed and be on my way.

I bet you also believe the holocoasters, the electrified floors, the Tom&Jerry bending rifles, the vacuum chambers, the diesel fumes chambers, the Bucha massacre, the mobile crematories, and all sorts of war propaganda. They don't teach critical thinking at schools.

The funny thing is that there's no "as described" with Hoaxoco$t because the story keeps changing and each witness has their own exaggerations, made up details, and contradictory numbers. So you have to pick a version you believe.

 

[potato in mah painus]

330 pages of bullshit and nobody is close to convincing anyone of anything at all. I personally think the holocaust happened mostly as described, but I also see little benefit in arguing with deniers on the internet. So I'll just reply to a few posts I noticed and be on my way.

Chugger and his sock history speaks are your typical shills and are employing slide/whataboutism tactics to break up conversations. He also attempted to drag debaters to twitter, which was more then happy to give ip and account info to the ADL at the time it was tried.

Long story short your opinions haven't been swayed because this entire thread got intentionally turned into slap fighting just like all the others. Governments and activist groups activly pay people to do this.

 

[Sooty Soot]

I don't care what you think about "teh joos"; if you wouldn't give Abigail a good deep dicking you're a bigger faggot than her "little" brother.

Then I am prepared to take it up the ass.

 

[cigint]

330 pages of bullshit and nobody is close to convincing anyone of anything

How can anyone simultaneously believe that Germany was trying to kill all the Jews, but also they kept FUCKING FEEDING THEM until the end of the war, when losing the war and allied bombardment made it impossible for them to continue? What convinced you of this, originally, outside the thread?

Jews have a fixation with the six million number, they used to report it any time anything happened to Jews anywhere. The Soviet Union's state-directed propaganda was also able to print six million dead Jews years before the war was over. How were they able to pinpoint it so exactly when the secret Jew-killing operation wasn't even done yet?

Isn't it somewhat more likely that the communist Jews in the SU just made up that number, and none of the other powers that were still alive at the end of the war (aka the western allies) had any reason to start arguing about it? They wouldn't have had anything to gain from defending Germany's honor.

 

[Kola]

Jews have a fixation with the six million number, they used to report it any time anything happened to Jews anywhere. The Soviet Union's state-directed propaganda was also able to print six million dead Jews years before the war was over. How were they able to pinpoint it so exactly when the secret Jew-killing operation wasn't even done yet?

Before the war was over? Try decades before the war even started. Remember the six gorillion goy.