EU General Discussion for Germany's attempts to onstitutionally ban the AfD (Alternative for Germany) - WIP - Check back tomorrow for translated transcript of federal parliament session

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Not in Happenings, because deaths need to be involved as per the board rules.

Reserving this OP for news.

While I normally localize terms in my translations for Kiwi Farms, such as turning "Grundgesetz" into "constitution", or "Bundestag" into "federal parliament", I intentionally abstain from doing that in this OP. I will make liberal use of German terms for the sake of accuracy in conveying the content and information to international readers. A glossary of terms and abbreviations is found here for your convenience:
  • AfD = Alternative für Deutschland (alternative for Germany), political party founded in 2013
  • Bundestag = federal parliament
  • Bundesverfassungsgericht = federal constitutional court, similar to the USA Supreme Court
  • CDU = Christlich-Demokratische Union (Christian democratic union), left-centrist political party with the majority of federal chancellors in the history of Germany
  • Grundgesetz = lit. "Basic Law", constitution of the Federal Republic of Germany
  • Karlsruhe = city in Germany, seat of the Bundesverfassungsgericht
  • NPD = Nationaldemokratische Partei Deutschlands (national democratic party of Germany), right-wing political party. Famously and infamously, a prohibition process against the NPD has failed before.
  • NSDAP = Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (national socialist German workers' party), literal Nazis
  • OVG = abbreviation "Oberverwaltungsgericht", upper administrative court
  • SPD = Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands (social democratic party of Germany), left-wing political party with the second-most federal chancellors in the history of Germany
  • Reichstag = the name of the building in which the Bundestag sessions are held
  • Verfassungsschutz = Office for the Protection of the Constitution, basically the interior intelligence agency, similar to the USA FBI

On Thursday, January 30 2025, the Bundestag held a session discussing two separate proposals to initiate a prohibition procedure against the AfD in Germany. Such a proposition may be submitted to the Bundesverfassungsgericht by either the Bundestag, the federal government, or the Federal Council.
In A&N, I have covered events and news items leading up to this, such as, in order of posting (oldest to newest):

For now, I am reserving this OP to collate information.


The relevant section is in the 210th session of the Bundestag, daily agenda items ZP 8,9:
ZP 8) Discussion of the petition by the representatives Carmen Wegge, Marco Wanderwitz, Dr. Till Steffen, Martina Renner, Stefan Seidler, and further representatives​
Petition for a decision of the German Bundestag on the initiation of a procedure to determine the unconstitutionality of the "Alternative für Deutschland" according to article 21 paragraph 2, 3, and 4 of the Grundgesetz and § 13 number 2 and 2a, §§ 43 ff. of the Bundesverfassungsgericht Law​
​
ZP 9) Discussion of the petition by the representatives Renate Künast, Lukas Benner, Dr. Irene Mihalic, and further representatives​
Determination of the unconstitutionality of the "Alternative für Deutschland"​
​
A complete and translated transcript of that Bundestag debate is available at https://kiwifarms.st/threads/german...fd-translation-of-official-transcript.210997/
 
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General Emílio Médici said:
Here your notification, since you are obviously baiting.

Not wanting to risk World War 3 and wanting cheap energy are obviously RUSSIAN POSITIONS!
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Only a vatnik would defend Russia. The "Not wanting to risk WW3" talkingpoint outed you nicely, because the implication is that "poor Russia" is being oh so meanly antagonized when the "proper and just" thing to do would be to sacrifice millions and millions of Europeans to its imperialist gulag and turn a blind eye to it.

Russia can always retreat into its proper borders where it belongs, or be defeated militarily. The choice is theirs. I always advocated for a total Pan-European war against that despotic shithole, because I am a moderate. Russia needs to be broken and it will be broken, and I am perfectly willing to see that Chinese appetites in Siberia are also satiated. You must understand that the Russian territory is meat, and that it will be treated as such. I wish to see Putin hanged after a fair and impartial trial in the Haag and ejaculate at the point of his death. Europe is above all things, and Germany needs to do its part. It has only itself to blame for its failed energy policy. There is no issue. Everything as it should be, and Russia is to be destroyed and dismembered. your women will serve in Chinese pleasure chambers and count themselves fortunate, and we will grind the bones of your men and elderly into fertilizer so that Ukraine may blossom. You will and are learning that you were, are, and will be shit in one form or another. I will never entertain delusions that Russia is strong or a proper state.

Be thankful Europe is still playing nice with you, because the alternative is people like me.
 
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Agitated Gerbil said:
Only a vatnik would defend Russia. The "Not wanting to risk WW3" talkingpoint outed you nicely, because the implication is that "poor Russia" is being oh so meanly antagonized when the "proper and just" thing to do would be to sacrifice millions and millions of Europeans to its imperialist gulag and turn a blind eye to it.

Russia can always retreat into its proper borders where it belongs, or be defeated militarily. The choice is theirs. I always advocated for a total Pan-European war against that despotic shithole, because I am a moderate. Russia needs to be broken and it will be broken, and I am perfectly willing to see that Chinese appetites in Siberia are also satiated. You must understand that the Russian territory is meat, and that it will be treated as such. I wish to see Putin hanged after a fair and impartial trial in the Haag and ejaculate at the point of his death. Europe is above all things, and Germany needs to do its part. It has only itself to blame for its failed energy policy. There is no issue. Everything as it should be, and Russia is to be destroyed and dismembered. your women will serve in Chinese pleasure chambers and count themselves fortunate, and we will grind the bones of your men and elderly into fertilizer so that Ukraine may blossom. You will and are learning that you were, are, and will be shit in one form or another. I will never entertain delusions that Russia is strong or a proper state.

Be thankful Europe is still playing nice with you, because the alternative is people like me.
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Is this what you get off to?
 
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Otterly said:
Are they aiming to get them banned before the February elections?
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Almost certainly, mostly because the CDU just sided with them in Parliament so the Germans are panicking
Germany's parliament descended into heckles and recriminations on Wednesday after a "firewall" against working with the far-right cracked.
A non-binding motion calling for tougher border and asylum rules passed with support from the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD). During the stormy session, politicians of various parties hurled criticism and blame at each other.
Conservative CDU leader Friedrich Merz, who tabled the plans, defended his actions as "necessary". But Chancellor Olaf Scholz slammed the move as an "unforgivable mistake".
Merz now plans to propose actual legislation on Friday – again with possible AfD backing – aimed at curbing immigration numbers and family reunion rights.

But his proposed measures are highly unlikely to come into effect this side of February's snap election and – if they did – could clash with EU law.
Referring to the AfD's support for the motion, the CDU leader told the Bundestag that a policy wasn't wrong just because the "wrong people back it".
"How many more children have to become victims of such acts of violence before you also believe there is a threat to public safety and order?" he asked.
The CDU leader – tipped to be Germany's next chancellor because of his party's leading position in the polls – has also insisted he has neither sought nor wants AfD support.
"Thinking about how the AfD fraction will cheer and their happy faces makes me feel uncomfortable," he told lawmakers.
Chancellor Scholz – a social democrat whose coalition government collapsed last year – castigated Merz for his actions.
"Since the founding of the Federal Republic of Germany over 75 years ago, there has always been a clear consensus among all democrats in our parliaments: we do not make common cause with the far right."
Germany's already fraught debate on immigration has flared up following a series of fatal attacks where the suspect is an asylum-seeker, most recently in the city of Aschaffenburg.
It has become a central issue in campaigning for the election, triggered by the collapse of Scholz's governing coalition.
Wednesday's CDU motion, supported by the AfD and liberal FDP, called for a "ban" on anyone entering Germany without the right documents – but it cannot compel the current minority government to act.
It's hard to overstate the importance of the firewall against the far-right in German political culture. Remembrance of the Holocaust plays a fundamental role in modern Germany.
Before Wednesday's vote, the Bundestag held its yearly commemoration for the victims of the Nazis, during which 88-year-old Holocaust survivor Roman Schwarzmann addressed parliament.
German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier also delivered a speech to MPs, calling for the Nazis' crimes never to be forgotten. There should be no "line drawn" ending our historical responsibility as Germans, he said.
This directly contradicts the policy of the AfD, which has criticised German memory culture and argued for a broader view of the country's history.
That's partly why so many were shocked when Friedrich Merz said last week that he didn't care if the AfD supported his parliamentary motions or not.
This contradicts not only his previous statements, but also the official line of his party, which bans the conservatives from relying on the far-right in parliamentary votes.
Sections of the AfD have been classed as right-wing extremists by domestic intelligence, but the party is is currently polling second, although Merz has ruled out any kind of coalition with them.
This week, latest polls showed that support for the conservative CDU had slipped a couple of percentage points to 28%, while the AfD increased slightly to 20%.
AfD leader Alice Weidel has said the firewall amounts to an "anti-democratic cartel agreement" and has predicted it will crumble over the coming years.
Opening the door to leaning on support from the far-right is a gamble for Merz, who believes that his increasingly radical stance on migration will win back right-wingers who are tempted to vote for the AfD.
But in so doing, he could risk losing support from the centre.
With these latest parliamentary motions, Merz has definitively said goodbye to the era of his more centrist conservative predecessor Angela Merkel, who a decade ago famously said "wir schaffen das" or "we can do it" when Germany was faced with large numbers of migrants and refugees.
These motions are symbolic, signalling what the conservatives would like to do in power. But they are also a concrete signal to voters about who Merz appears prepared to accept support from.
Critics say he has broken his word on the firewall. No wonder the AfD cheered in parliament when the result was announced.
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It's an entirely symbolic gesture, for a motion no sane German is opposed to, intended purely to court voters ahead of the election. Naturally Angela had to break ranks and shriek at her own party how that's not democracy. The BBC provided a calm and completely unbiased headline for that one.

Merkel criticises her party leader after far-right vote​

Germany's former Chancellor Angela Merkel has criticised her own party leader for passing a motion in parliament with support from the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD).
In a statement, Merkel accused CDU leader Friedrich Merz of turning his back on a previous pledge not to work with AfD in the Bundestag.
The parliament descended into heckles on Wednesday after votes from the far-right party meant a non-binding CDU motion on tougher immigration rules was passed.
This is a highly unusual intervention by the woman who led Germany for 16 years, stepping in to criticise the actions of her former political rival.
Merz, who is tipped to be Germany's next chancellor due to CDU's lead in the polls, said on Wednesday that a policy was not wrong just because the "wrong people back it" and that he had not sought nor wanted AfD's support.
But Merkel accused him of breaking a pledge he made in November to work with the Social Democratic Party and the Greens to pass legislation, not AfD.
This was to ensure "neither in determining the agenda nor in voting on the matter here in the House will there be a random or actually brought about majority with those from the AfD," read a quote from Merz in Merkel's statement., external
The former chancellor said she fully supported this earlier "expression of great state political responsibility".
"I think it is wrong to no longer feel bound by this proposal and thereby knowingly allow the AfD to gain a majority in a vote in the German Bundestag on 29 January 2025 for the first time."
She said "all democratic parties" needed to work together "to do everything they can to prevent such terrible attacks in the future as those that took place shortly before Christmas in Magdeburg and a few days ago in Aschaffenburg".
This is a rare intervention from Merkel.
To openly criticise her own party's candidate for chancellor – just weeks out from an election – is a big move and will add rocket fuel to a an already explosive story in German politics.
Merkel and Merz go back a long way - and not as the best of friends.
He was famously side-lined by Merkel in the early 2000s after she won out in a CDU power struggle.
Merz would go on to quit front-line politics for many years before making his return.
Since then, he has criticized Merkel's legacy – particularly her handling of the migration crisis.
They also have very different visions for the party, with Merkel seen as a more pragmatic centrist and Merz from the CDU's more traditional, conservative wing.
Wednesday's vote broke a longstanding taboo in German politics – and Merz is also due to propose legislation on Friday that the AfD could support.
The current German Chancellor, Olaf Scholz, called the move an "unforgivable mistake".
"Since the founding of the Federal Republic of Germany over 75 years ago, there has always been a clear consensus among all democrats in our parliaments: we do not make common cause with the far right," he said.
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I quite like Scholz admitting it is completely acceptable to align with extremists as long as they can be vaguely defined as the left. It's not news but really does help when explaining why German "anti-fascists" are allowed to commit terrorism in other countries then flee back home to avoid consequences.
 
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Hollywood Hulk Hogan said:
AFD, retard. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx88nwy934go
Here is your god Elon supporting them: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1869986946031988780?lang=en
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Wodanaz said:
Don't worry bro, the people who are On The Right Side Of History will just ban them and throw them in jail for wrongthink (totally not authoritarian btw) before they can gain any real power. Then the German(?) people can go back to being replaced by people from the desert. In the end, Elon's opinion on this will not matter, so you won't have to seek out any more mainstream media opinions about them.
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Wodanaz said:
Why are you such a broken record? I said Elon's opinion on the AFD won't matter because the German feds will just ban them for wrongthink, and this entire debate about Nazis will be moot. How exactly is that white knighting Elon? Or are you just upset the people whose politics you agree with use authoritarian tactics, just like the people they claim to oppose?
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AmpleApricots said:
They won't. It needs to be discussed as a formality because of the way it was brought up, because in a functioning democracy, you actually do discuss things when proper formal channels were respected, even if they have no chance of passing and don't have an immediate effect on anything.

You could even know this if you actually informed yourself how things work in germany and didn't just absorb whatever social media ragebait you absorb 24/7, only to repeat it here and not only spread something that's untrue, but also show that you are completely ignorant of what is actually happening.
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Wodanaz said:
brave_E0jJN3CUfO.png
-banned for being nazi
-weimar, not nazi
-weimar, not nazi
-banned for being nazi
-banned for being nazi
-weimar, not nazi
-weimar, not nazi
-banned for being nazi
-banned for being nazi
-banned for supporting palestinians (oy vey!)
-banned for being nazi
-banned for being nazi

By what metric do you judge that the AFD won't simply be banned for being nazis? It's happened plenty of times before. Democracy doesn't really mean anything in Germany because you get fined and arrested for speaking your mind. Saying they won't ban the AFD is like saying Trump has a 1% chance of winning the election. It's just disengenuous.
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So anyway, tell me more about how official German federal procedures to ban a political party is just social media ragebait. Is this just a formality? Or will they actually go through with it, like they did the last seven (7) times? Is this the sign of a functioning democracy? Proper formal channels to debate literally banning your political opponents? I guess Americans have a lot to learn about democracy huh...
 
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Isn't this kind of retarded? Wouldn't they want to wait until AFTER the elections? This is just giving them free publicity. Now of course I hope one day AfD wins bigly but if I were their enemies that's how I would try to debase them.
 
Agitated Gerbil said:
Only a vatnik would defend Russia. The "Not wanting to risk WW3" talkingpoint outed you nicely, because the implication is that "poor Russia" is being oh so meanly antagonized when the "proper and just" thing to do would be to sacrifice millions and millions of Europeans to its imperialist gulag and turn a blind eye to it.

Russia can always retreat into its proper borders where it belongs, or be defeated militarily. The choice is theirs. I always advocated for a total Pan-European war against that despotic shithole, because I am a moderate. Russia needs to be broken and it will be broken, and I am perfectly willing to see that Chinese appetites in Siberia are also satiated. You must understand that the Russian territory is meat, and that it will be treated as such. I wish to see Putin hanged after a fair and impartial trial in the Haag and ejaculate at the point of his death. Europe is above all things, and Germany needs to do its part. It has only itself to blame for its failed energy policy. There is no issue. Everything as it should be, and Russia is to be destroyed and dismembered. your women will serve in Chinese pleasure chambers and count themselves fortunate, and we will grind the bones of your men and elderly into fertilizer so that Ukraine may blossom. You will and are learning that you were, are, and will be shit in one form or another. I will never entertain delusions that Russia is strong or a proper state.

Be thankful Europe is still playing nice with you, because the alternative is people like me.
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A jew wrote this. Or worse a "Right wing (((white))) nationalist" whose opinions on geopolitics is somehow 100% in-line with the jewish atlantic system.

"The EU and NATO is the last bastion of white civilization guys!!! Your the cucks!!" Yeah fucking right. Love the fetish inclusion of you fantasizing about white women being violated by non-whites. Europe above all, right!!
 
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I feel I need to reply in this thread since somebody helpfully quoted me to get my attention.

Since I'm not sure what I am supposed to talk about (since I read nothing but the quote that brought me here, I *love* my own posts and in general my writing) what I will talk about is onions. God, love me some onions. Fried, raw, doesn't matter. Could eat the suckers just like apples. But they give me gas. You know what I mean? Really bad ones. And I'm basically fobidden from onions on account of existential threat to lives around me. Sad, but it is what it is.
 
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Agitated Gerbil said:
Be thankful Europe is still playing nice with you, because the alternative is people like me.
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Lmao holy fucking shit this is the most cringe shit I've ever seen

What irrelevant EU country are you from? Croatia? Lithuania?

On topic: watching to see how this all ends. Hopefully the jannies can keep the off topic shit stirrers out of the thread.
 
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Germany has some really big issues, AFD is getting snubbed in state media and public institutions are almost completely captured by leftists.

However not in a million years they are able to prohibit the AFD.

This all seems like it just picked up steam now but they have tried for years to ban them and failed again and again
 
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