Greer v. Moon, No. 20-cv-00647 (D. Utah Sep. 16, 2020)

[reptile baht spaniard rid]

Yes but I do not think to the degree necessary to throw the case out. I may be wrong though.

Motive comes into play ONCE the court has established actual, prolonged fuckery.

It may be obvious to us that he's doing this for his particular reasons, and doing it badly, but the court can't even look at that until the court's convinced he IS intentionally fucking around. Up until relatively recently, everything could be explained by retardedness, but slowly a list of things are building up.

Once the court is throwing sanctions around, then things like this come into play. See the acerthorn case where the court dismissed part of the defenses accusations, and then when they finally let the dogs out, they went back and admitted it was correct and true.

 

[Justice Tony]

Motive comes into play ONCE the court has established actual, prolonged fuckery.

It may be obvious to us that he's doing this for his particular reasons, and doing it badly, but the court can't even look at that until the court's convinced he IS intentionally fucking around. Up until relatively recently, everything could be explained by retardedness, but slowly a list of things are building up.

Once the court is throwing sanctions around, then things like this come into play. See the acerthorn case where the court dismissed part of the defenses accusations, and then when they finally let the dogs out, they went back and admitted it was correct and true.

Wait are we talking about motivation for suing in the first place or for stalling? Because I was just saying that it doesn't matter if you sue someone with the intent to bankrupt them by winning the case as opposed to bankrupting them by dragging things out to bleed them dry through attorney's fees.

 

[Lian Xing]

Honestly, maybe they are doing it on purpose. Think about it, Greer is a known mass litigant who is a drain on the court system. If he loses this case with null it's not like he's going to stop suing random people. Maybe they think that dragging this out is a way to minimize the time they have to waste on him and Null is stuck with the shitbag? Idk.

There is no way they are doing it on purpose. The Judge is putting the bare minimum effort into this retarded case because it is retarded. It's the only explanation. The Judge would rather get his fingernails removed without anesthesia than deal with this case.

If you were a judge, would you a) rather deal with cases that aren't retarded that you can get done, or b) devote an unnecessary amount of time to hand-hold a retard? This is way beyond Null being a persona non grata at this point.

 

[obsdj]

There is no way they are doing it on purpose. The Judge is putting the bare minimum effort into this retarded case because it is retarded. It's the only explanation.

And on that note, I again would like to know where the hell is the damn District Judge who has to rule on the damn stupid objection from two weeks ago. Is he waiting for Hardin to file the numbers on the fee sanctions first, before deciding whether the damn stupid objection has merit? The Magistrate Judge presumably can't make the final decision on those numbers (which he will have to do since we know Greer and Hardin won't have come to any agreement) until the objection is ruled on.

 

[Justice Tony]

There is no way they are doing it on purpose. The Judge is putting the bare minimum effort into this retarded case because it is retarded. It's the only explanation. The Judge would rather get his fingernails removed without anesthesia than deal with this case.

If you were a judge, would you a) rather deal with cases that aren't retarded that you can get done, or b) devote an unnecessary amount of time to hand-hold a retard? This is way beyond Null being a persona non grata at this point.

I get that but isn’t this current situation less work than if Greer starts another suit? Maybe they’re trying to avoid that.

 

[reptile baht spaniard rid]

And on that note, I again would like to know where the hell is the damn District Judge who has to rule on the damn stupid objection from two weeks ago. Is he waiting for Hardin to file the numbers on the fee sanctions first, before deciding whether the damn stupid objection has merit?

I suspect that the judge is taking the slow roll, partially out of hope that something will resolve the question (and we've seen Russtard file something, only to shit himself and unfile it immediately or shortly afterwards) and partially out of hoping Russtard will put his entire leg in his mouth and chomp it off. It's always easier to dodge than to rule, and as long as there's time on the clock there's hope.

Russ should file a GET ON WITH IT motion, of course, it worked well for acerthorn.

 

[AnOminous]

The 10th circuit really did Greer no favors by letting him dig deeper into this mess.

Russ has been lucky up until now that he hasn't got to discovery. Even ridiculous cases don't usually get sanctioned if they just get thrown out on a 12(b)(6) or for typical Russtard antics like being too stupid even to serve the suit, even after the judge explained to you in small words how to do it.

Sanctions are pretty much up to the judge's discretion, so if the judge doesn't feel like smacking a pro se retard like Russ, they won't.

If you fuck around in discovery, though, sanctions are essentially mandatory. The parties are supposed to act like adults and resolve discovery disputes without the involvement of the court. So if a party forces the court to resolve an issue and they lose on it because they were the ones fucking around, sanctions are essentially automatic.

If the Tenth hadn't sent this back with their idiotic decision, Russ wouldn't be getting it up the ass right now. So good job helping the retard.

That's what's crazy to me. I know that the reason it's set up this way is for the benefit of people with actual merit to their claims to get due process even if they don't really know what they're doing, but Russ has repeatedly ignored or otherwise failed to comply with the court's instructions for years; even when the judge spells it out for him in language a literal retard could understand.

Unfortunately, it barely helps even that unlucky plaintiff who has a legitimate case but is unable to obtain counsel. If a plaintiff can obtain counsel, it's probably because it's a case solid enough some lawyer will take it on contingency. A plaintiff with a sound but hard to prosecute case, to the point even experienced lawyers view it as too much of a long shot to bother, is probably going to have a tough time prosecuting something even a lawyer is unwilling to take a chance on.

Therefore, many of the beneficiaries of these rules are vexatious pieces of shit like Acerthorn and Russtard. They don't have a case to lose in the first place, so they can just fuck around endlessly.

Yes but I do not think to the degree necessary to throw the case out. I may be wrong though.

There are a number of torts, statutes, rules and doctrines relevant to Greer's conduct.

The first is malicious prosecution (not to be confused with the civil tort for malicious prosecution of a criminal action). This would involve intentionally filing a completely nonmeritorious lawsuit while knowing it to be so. Now, this is pretty much a nonstarter considering the opinion, however bad, of the Tenth Circuit, since that's the law of the case now. On top of that, there actually was copyright infringement by some party.

The next, more apropos, is abuse of process. This involves the prosecution of a legal action which, while facially valid, is pursued for an improper collateral purpose. For instance, you know a witness on the other side has a trial date in California, so you serve them with a deposition subpoena for the same day in New York deliberately to force them to oppose it or else fail to appear in one of the cases.

So, for instance, the purpose of intellectual property law is to compensate IP owners for infringement and to penalize infringers to deter infringement. It is not to bankrupt the other side. Saying this is, at least in theory, a possible admission of abuse of process. A lawyer might face some minor discipline for doing this, but I think a pro se wouldn't, because the lawyer would be presumed to know this was an abuse of process. By itself, I don't think this would hold up even against a lawyer, though, at least taken in isolation.

Then we have FRCP's Rule 11, for frivolous litigation. Again, I think this is a nonstarter at least for the initial filing. Some of the ongoing shenanigans may qualify. At least at present, I'm not sure that would really be a good approach.

Now, what I think might be applicable are sanctions under 28 U.S.C. § 1927 (vexatious litigation).

Any attorney or other person admitted to conduct cases in any court of the United States or any Territory thereof who so multiplies the proceedings in any case unreasonably and vexatiously may be required by the court to satisfy personally the excess costs, expenses, and attorneys' fees reasonably incurred because of such conduct.

Vexatious litigation does not require the underlying lawsuit to be frivolous, merely that the attorney (or pro se litigant in this case) has behaved unreasonably and vexatiously, which Russ has continually done for years.

And then, finally, we have the actual sanctions issue related to discovery, and the award of this is clear-cut, effectively automatic (and I went into that earlier in this post).

So, these are some of the more pertinent theories related to what Russ has done (possibly including others like fraud on the court). Hardin probably will not pursue these against the current behavior since it's already covered under the discovery shenanigans sanctions which Russtard does not seem to understand have already been imposed, and that it's just a matter of how much he gets sanctioned, not whether it happens.

 

[Oliver Onions]

the judge also has to know that he isn't a first time pro se litigant.

Does he, though? It seems like the biggest problem in all Null's lawsuits are that they keep getting passed from judge to judge, none of whom know the first thing about the plaintiffs and take them at their word that they're just retarded yer honnuh.

I can't believe that any competent judge who had actually dug into Russ's history of frivolous lawsuits would have let this shitshow drag on for so many years.

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

I can't believe that any competent judge who had actually dug into Russ's history of frivolous lawsuits would have let this shitshow drag on for so many years.

I am convinced (and I think many others here share the same sentiment) that the current judge is in "Yes, honey" mode given the successful appeal.
Essentially building up such a gigantic pile of dung coming from Plaintiff Russell Greer that no appellate court could reject the absolute state of this shitshow next time an appeal happens

 

[reptile baht spaniard rid]

I can't believe that any competent judge who had actually dug into Russ's history of frivolous lawsuits would have let this shitshow drag on for so many years.

They explicitly DON'T dig into the history until it becomes pertinent, because it can be argued that it is prejudicial.

 

[Post Reply]

Does he, though? It seems like the biggest problem in all Null's lawsuits are that they keep getting passed from judge to judge, none of whom know the first thing about the plaintiffs and take them at their word that they're just retarded yer honnuh.

I can't believe that any competent judge who had actually dug into Russ's history of frivolous lawsuits would have let this shitshow drag on for so many years.

Luckily in this case, the name of the book which Russell asserts we infringed is titled "Why I Sued Taylor Swift: and How I Became Falsely Known as Frivolous, Litigious and Crazy".

 

[Sexy Senior Citizen]

Once the court is throwing sanctions around, then things like this come into play.

These are the facts as I understand them:

The court is considering sanctions on Russ because:

• He is filing tantrums with the court
• He refuses to work with Hardin to establish dates for this to go to trial
• He couldn't do his due diligence with his witnesses

He is wasting the court's time, and the court is getting sick of it. Russ, being a retard, is arguing that Hardin is equally guilty of wasting the court's time. Not only is he ignoring that as the plaintiff he is the moving party (i.e. the case only moves forward based on his actions), Hardin, as the defendant's counsel, is obligated to respond to each and every retarded filing to ensure Null has the best defense possible.

Yes but I do not think to the degree necessary to throw the case out. I may be wrong though.

If not for that quote, it'd be difficult to prove if it's malice or retardation. With it, Null could make the argument for malice.

Building on that...

They explicitly DON'T dig into the history until it becomes pertinent, because it can be argued that it is prejudicial.

His history is absolutely pertinent. Russ has a history of filing frivolous lawsuits to force people to let him have his way. That was the crux of Freemantle's argument when he sued them. In this case, removing the link to the book is secondary to having his history of misconduct removed from the internet.

 

[Harvey Danger]

Does he, though? It seems like the biggest problem in all Null's lawsuits are that they keep getting passed from judge to judge, none of whom know the first thing about the plaintiffs and take them at their word that they're just retarded yer honnuh.

I can't believe that any competent judge who had actually dug into Russ's history of frivolous lawsuits would have let this shitshow drag on for so many years.

Counterpoint--the judge in the Acerthorn vs KF suit was apprised of his extensive pro se history, and being labelled vexatious litigant in other courts. But he didn't take it into account until Acerthorn started shitting up that judge's own court docket and harassing his clerks.



Maybe that's proper, to avoid claims that such history is prejudicial to the immediate case. It did result in the judge writing a real barn burner denouncing Acerthorn's conduct and denying IFP. But it doesn't give much hope for judges pre-emptively stomping down pests like Greer, who manage to meet the bare minimum of legal decorum (unlike Acerthorn).

 

[Oliver Onions]

They explicitly DON'T dig into the history until it becomes pertinent, because it can be argued that it is prejudicial.

I'm sure there is a good reason for this, but in Russ's case they absolutely should be prejudiced against him on the basis that he's a malicious prick deliberately filing frivolous lawsuits to ruin the lives of people who upset him.

 

[reptile baht spaniard rid]

He is wasting the court's time, and the court is getting sick of it.

He’s been doing that all along. The key now is he is wasting time in a very defined section of the case; discovery. The court has given him all the lifeline and assistance they can, but fucking up in discovery is big boy real bad.

Note that he could have played the helpful retard and avoided this; but in discovery recalcitrant retard cannot be the play.

 

[RodgerDodger]

Holy shit, none of the deranged, bad faith EXPLAINING answers the adverse inference motion at all.

And when has this judge or the 10th circuit ever cared about such trivial details.

 

[Justice Tony]

I am convinced (and I think many others here share the same sentiment) that the current judge is in "Yes, honey" mode given the successful appeal.
Essentially building up such a gigantic pile of dung coming from Plaintiff Russell Greer that no appellate court could reject the absolute state of this shitshow next time an appeal happens

Yeah he is definitely in a predicament due to the appeal being successful on Russ's part. He can't let this go forward but at the same time he can't throw it out. In his position I'd probably do the same: make sure this takes up as little of his time as possible. Keeping the case in a low intensity state like this is just that.

If not for that quote, it'd be difficult to prove if it's malice or retardation. With it, Null could make the argument for malice.

I'm sure null can prove Russ is a brainlet if it's not already self evident. But as for malice it really depends on if it is an underhanded kind of malice associated with dragging this out to bankrupt null or the kind of malice that is inherent with starting a suit. To paraphrase Harvey Danger:

Greer [is a retard] who [manages] to meet the bare minimum of legal decorum (unlike Acerthorn).

 

[AnOminous]

Once the court is throwing sanctions around, then things like this come into play.

Remember, the sanctions issue isn't really a "the judge is pissed" thing. He essentially had to rule that way. It doesn't necessarily mean he won't continue to play coddle the retard in other ways in areas where he has more discretion.

Not granting sanctions would itself have probably been a reversible error subject to appeal, at least at the end of the case. While sanctions are generally reviewed for abuse of discretion, the discretion in discovery-related fee sanctions is highly bounded, as compared to permissive sanctions like adverse inferences.

I think we might get some idea of what's going on in the judge's head based on what amount he reaches. If he just gives Hardin whatever he asks for, this bodes ill for Russ. If he halves it, he's almost just going through the motions. If he more than halves it, he's playing coddle the retard.

The court is considering sanctions on Russ because:

The court has already imposed sanctions for Russ's discovery shenanigans and has so far not ruled determinatively on the other pending motions.

As for the discovery sanctions, it's just a matter of how much they are. They're incoming.

Wait are we talking about motivation for suing in the first place or for stalling?

Because there's an intentionality element to most sanctions theories (other than Rule 11 which is simply objective unreasonableness and discovery which is effectively automatic). The intentionality doesn't establish sanctionable misconduct by itself. If you file a facially meritorious lawsuit and then prosecute it using valid means, you can also have a malicious motive (you generally are not a fan of whoever you are suing).

In short, malicious intent is not in and of itself sanctionable, but is required for some types of sanctions.

The intentionality element also used to apply to Rule 11, but this proved unworkable because pretty much everyone faced with sanctions under it would simply play the "ha ha I'm just a dumb retard" card and short of them overtly admitting to subjective bad faith, it was nearly entirely toothless.

 

[Debbie Macomber]

Russtard does not seem to understand have already been imposed, and that it's just a matter of how much he gets sanctioned, not whether it happens.

My understanding is that Hardin was threatening to ask for more sanctions over Steve Taylor and that's what Russ was offering to delay or not send his own sanctions request for

But it wouldn't surprise me if Russell thinks undoing Steve Taylor undoes the sanctions already imposed

 

[reptile baht spaniard rid]

Russ is so stupid as to think that a “modified protective order” is not only a thing, but something he should ask for, and that it might somehow be retroactive.

He’s stupid enough to think he can dodge sanctions by threatening Hardin personally.