Sid Meier's Civilization

[Mayor Cody Travers]

Because of Civ 1 and 2, I may still associate certain colors with certain nations -- and lack thereof -- to this day for some reason.

Barbarians (also pirates and terrorists, red)
Romans | Russians | Celts (white)
Babylonians | Zulus | Japanese (green)
French | Germans | Vikings (blue)
Aztecs | Egyptians | Spanish (yellow)
Americans | Chinese | Persians (teal)
English | Greeks | Carthaginians (orange, pink in Civ 1)
Indians | Mongols | Sioux (violet, grey in Civ 1)

Also, that 3rd civ in each color was not a default choice in Civ 1 (so for example, the Spanish were officially introduced in Civ 2).


Or that "watered down smartphone feel" as I call it.

Oh, someone else in the EXACT same boat on colors!... though with red my fave color, it was a bummer it was reserved for the NPC Barbs. Alas. I also found it funny that in Colonization they had dummied-out colors for independent Euro colonies and a cyan/teal/light blue cropped up.... obviously meant for America. And even in EUIV they get that same cyan/teal/light blue just to complete the association forever to me.

Also don't forget in Civ II they had a Brown color tucked away in the files for a seemingly dummied-out 8th player slot. We could fill it in with the cut-out Incans (seemingly replaced by the Celts), Arabs (deffo replaced by the Persians), and it seems the Turks were planned for Civ I (checking its manual) before being replaced by the Germans, so that's a nice trio to round out that set. You throw in the suggested brown civs above, add in six obvious nations for a revived pink and grey, and IMO you've got down almost every major nation worthy of being in the sweeping all-world historical drama Civilization tries to represent.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

Oh, someone else in the EXACT same boat on colors!

Also listed colors in order of appearance with the number of civs in Civ 1. 3 players is up to blue, 4 adds yellow, 5 adds teal, etc.

In 2, one can manually change colors by altering those GIF sprite sheets. That vidya is easy to alter, even without Fantastic Worlds.

 

[Jesus Swept]

I "abandoned ship" with pocketmons after Gen 6. And it looks very unlikely I'm gonna get Civ 7.

Well on the plus side, at least you have plenty of alternatives. Old World is releasing a new expansion soon, Millennia just did the nuclear war expansion, Endless Legend 2 has been announced, Humankind even got a balance patch fixing the shitty war system 3 years too late (lol).

 

[whatever I feel like]

There's a lot of niggercattle thinking of "oh this is just base vanilla Civ, they'll patch it" at the moment.

I mean, people claim that they eventually fixed 5, and IMO that turkey was unsavable.

 

[TrinityReformed]

I mean, people claim that they eventually fixed 5, and IMO that turkey was unsavable.

And how long did that take?

 

[whatever I feel like]

And how long did that take?

Lol it took until the second expansion and largely involved stripping out features that didn't work.

What a shitty Civ, and one that has had tremendous influence on its successors.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

[screencap]

>empowers

FFS

 

[Willie B. Hardigan]

I mean, people claim that they eventually fixed 5, and IMO that turkey was unsavable.

>After years of waiting Civ 4 is released in 2005
>"This actually fucking sucks, the series needs to make drastic changes to be good again!"
>After years of waiting Civ 5 is released & revitalized based on feedback by "fans" in 2010
>"This actually fucking sucks, the series needs to make drastic changes to be good again!"
>After years of waiting Civ 6 is released & revitalized based on feedback by "fans" in 2016
>"This actually fucking sucks, the series needs to make drastic changes to be good again!"
>After years of waiting Civ 7 is released & revitalized based on feedback by "fans" in 2025
>"This actually fucking sucks, the series needs to make drastic changes to be good again!"

Please, guys, the franchise can't take much more abuse. I shudder to imagine what Civ 8 is gonna look like in 2035.

 

[The Pierrot]

Please, guys, the franchise can't take much more abuse. I shudder to imagine what Civ 8 is gonna look like in 2035.

I'll be giving the take and hope that the shift in the whole cultural vibe since the development of 7, as mentioned by @Mayor Cody Travers, might actually result in what would at least be an improvement from how it is here.

....Oooor, we could just end up with even more nonsensical choices for both leaders and Civs while France, Spain, and Rome are all absent from the base game and are instead packaged as DLC within the first month of the game's release. Marsha Johnson leads America in Sid Meier's Civilization 8!

 

[Fig Kommandant]

Please, guys, the franchise can't take much more abuse.

Said every fan of any franchise since 2007.

 

[whatever I feel like]

>After years of waiting Civ 4 is released in 2005
>"This actually fucking sucks, the series needs to make drastic changes to be good again!"
>After years of waiting Civ 5 is released & revitalized based on feedback by "fans" in 2010
>"This actually fucking sucks, the series needs to make drastic changes to be good again!"
>After years of waiting Civ 6 is released & revitalized based on feedback by "fans" in 2016
>"This actually fucking sucks, the series needs to make drastic changes to be good again!"
>After years of waiting Civ 7 is released & revitalized based on feedback by "fans" in 2025
>"This actually fucking sucks, the series needs to make drastic changes to be good again!"

Please, guys, the franchise can't take much more abuse. I shudder to imagine what Civ 8 is gonna look like in 2035.

You must not have been there because the positive response to Civ IV was overwhelming. People thought 3 was a step back from 2 and were beyond happy that IV was "correcting things" by being more balanced and not making every win condition beyond Conquest an afterthought. Indeed, for the longest time all we had to hear about was how even numbered series entries were good and odd numbered series entries were bad.

 

[Willie B. Hardigan]

You must not have been there because the positive response to Civ IV was overwhelming. People thought 3 was a step back from 2 and were beyond happy that IV was "correcting things" by being more balanced and not making every win condition beyond Conquest an afterthought. Indeed, for the longest time all we had to hear about was how even numbered series entries were good and odd numbered series entries were bad.

Sorry to say, but, Contrarian fans have existed since before the third game was even out. Does that mean it was the popular opinion? No, because as you said a good chunk of people loved it but a sizable chunk had problems with it and complained enough to have things changed which snowballs into a new generation of complainers for the next game again yelling into the ears of Firaxis who then "course correct" again to please everybody and thus nobody.

Halo is loved by many now but you go back to old FPS forums and find people bemoaning the death of the genre. One must not have been there to experience the subtle disappointment of Civ 2 by fans when it came out but some remnants of that still exist thankfully.

 

[Computer God Autism]

Sorry to say, but, Contrarian fans have existed since before the third game was even out. Does that mean it was the popular opinion? No, because as you said a good chunk of people loved it but a sizable chunk had problems with it and complained enough to have things changed which snowballs into a new generation of complainers for the next game again yelling into the ears of Firaxis who then "course correct" again to please everybody and thus nobody.

Halo is loved by many now but you go back to old FPS forums and find people bemoaning the death of the genre. One must not have been there to experience the subtle disappointment of Civ 2 by fans when it came out but some remnants of that still exist thankfully.

That's all well and good, but there were no significant amount of fans asking for Civ 7 to be a worse version of Humankind.

Attributing these design changes to fan lashback and not corporate fiat or the personal fixation of developers - the same reason why we got the obvious ideological push in 7 and 6 that we did - is also a massive leap of faith.

 

[Kane Lives]

Lol it took until the second expansion and largely involved stripping out features that didn't work.

What a shitty Civ, and one that has had tremendous influence on its successors.

By EOL, V was much more playable than base, that is true.

That said, I think it always was just much less interesting, with wide and tall being forced onto you by civ choices, and the AI continuing to be incompetent providing not much reason to replay.

 

[Slap47]

>After years of waiting Civ 4 is released in 2005
>"This actually fucking sucks, the series needs to make drastic changes to be good again!"
>After years of waiting Civ 5 is released & revitalized based on feedback by "fans" in 2010
>"This actually fucking sucks, the series needs to make drastic changes to be good again!"
>After years of waiting Civ 6 is released & revitalized based on feedback by "fans" in 2016
>"This actually fucking sucks, the series needs to make drastic changes to be good again!"
>After years of waiting Civ 7 is released & revitalized based on feedback by "fans" in 2025
>"This actually fucking sucks, the series needs to make drastic changes to be good again!"

Please, guys, the franchise can't take much more abuse. I shudder to imagine what Civ 8 is gonna look like in 2035.

I do not think this is true.

Civ 5 and 6 had some criticism, but were not universally panned as dogshit by the people who actually purchased the game. Right now they have Overwhelmingly positive reviews on Steam and have never once dipped below mixed. You could argue this is simply a matter of preference.

This is something different. They strayed too far from what people like about these games on a much deeper level and they will probably not recover from this.

 

[Kane Lives]

This is something different. They strayed too far from what people like about these games on a much deeper level and they will probably not recover from this.

I been reading some steam reviews and a common thread I seen is that by separating leaders and civs, the fantasy of roleplaying a civ to ahistorical success has been irrevocably shattered. People care about the Roman Empire, they dont care so much about Caesar or Trajan. Doubly so when you're forced to change civ in the middle of the game and are now suddenly forced to play some civ you may not like or heard of.

This is actually pretty big because while hardcore multiplayer tards may not mind, the casual crowd may just walk off.

 

[LowlyPheasent]

Doubly so when you're forced to change civ in the middle of the game and are now suddenly forced to play some civ you may not like or heard of.

Even if it was a functioning and well made game, this mechanic would make me not bother getting it. I don't see the appeal of this gameplaywise at all.

 

[whatever I feel like]

I do not think this is true.

Civ 5 and 6 had some criticism, but were not universally panned as dogshit by the people who actually purchased the game. Right now they have Overwhelmingly positive reviews on Steam and have never once dipped below mixed. You could argue this is simply a matter of preference.

This is something different. They strayed too far from what people like about these games on a much deeper level and they will probably not recover from this.

Dude, 5 was lambasted as pretty much not playable at launch, or worse, that the optimum strategy was horrible city spam that made the game trash. It took a looooooot of work just to get up to baseline "okay".

 

[DogZero]

Sorry to say, but, Contrarian fans have existed since before the third game was even out. Does that mean it was the popular opinion? No, because as you said a good chunk of people loved it but a sizable chunk had problems with it and complained enough to have things changed which snowballs into a new generation of complainers for the next game again yelling into the ears of Firaxis who then "course correct" again to please everybody and thus nobody.

Halo is loved by many now but you go back to old FPS forums and find people bemoaning the death of the genre. One must not have been there to experience the subtle disappointment of Civ 2 by fans when it came out but some remnants of that still exist thankfully.

Nailed it.
The “civ cycle” as they call it is one of the most consistent trends in gaming. New entry comes out, people who hate it are extremely vocal and bemoan it as the end, after 5 years or so and 2 expansions people say it is the best in the series, then new one comes out and cycle resets.

I’m not saying this to throw away discussion or thoughts on which games are better or worse than others. It’s just a trend to keep in mind. It’s why i said there’s some things in civ 7 i conceptually actually like. I think the issue civ switching is trying to fix, the fact your civ has a limited time it’s optimal, thus under indexing modern oriented civs, is a real one. Another solution could have been having new abilities per age for each civ. Civ Revolution on xbox did this. If the trend continues half of it will get refined to be good and half of it will still not be quite right. By then 7 will have a fanbase.

Some examples. 5 released without religion and broken expansion mechanics as I have said. It fixed the former by adding religion in the first expansion, it fucked up fixing the latter with tech scaling. People seem to forget but 5 was HATED on release. Worse than any of the other games. It lacked core mechanics. I’m happy there’s people who love it now but this is just true.

6 released with technical issues, shallow mechanics, lack of civ variety and poor scaling into the late game. It then added a ton of civs through packs, added a bunch of QOL and added climate change in the late game. Mostly good changes but Climate change wasn’t the late game crisis they intended ultimately and their attempts to diversify the civ line up led to some that essentially play a different game like babylonian with planes in 500 bc which is an issue when most of the rest of the lineup is conventional.

Rn is the most controversial time for me to say this but in 5 years there will be people saying 7 is the best in the series. Some of them might even be people in this thread disappointed with it rn. I’m not saying that’s wrong or right it’s just what always happens. Again none of this justifies giving fraxis a 120 dollar interest free loan when the game is at its worst point however.

 

[Snekposter]

Yeah, I still play Command and Conquer Generals: Zero Hour mods a lot to this day.

A bit off-topic, but I've yet to encounter another RTS that lets you so shamelessly despoil the battlefield with a combination of UXO and terrain poisoning. C&C3 comes close, but it still doesn't have the same extreme mix of minefields, booby traps, toxin and radiation pools, and giant firestorms.

(And yes I'm mad that the nation that historically solves so many of its problems with aerial firebombing doesn't get to do that.)