Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?


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My guess is that his “sexiness” factor is supposed to make him appealing, since she loves having him dressed like that. But like you said, it just doesn’t work. And honestly, I can’t think of any time I’ve seen people lust over and sexuality an abusive pimp. I don’t think I’ve even seen that in those shitty smut novels that women love to drool over. You know, the ones with fae princes or werewolves that’ll threaten to kill you, but you could skate on those abs. Again, it doesn’t help that she swings between wanting him to be used as a serious example of an abuser and “just a silly little sexy guy!!💖”. I’m remembering that he’s likely named after her dead cat, so that must contribute to her loving him so much. His voice actor is also a nut, but he can barely keep a consistent accent for Val, so who cares what he says?

Someone, (I can't remember who) on offsite had made the connection of Pimps and Child Traffickers, so in a way it doesn't make since at all, and for the dead cat thing. Why on earth would you even name a Rapist (Potentially Pedocoded) character after your beloved cat (Disregard that Valentino is the name of Chai's cat and if I am remembering correctly the cat that Viv had was named Panda. But my point still stands.)

It's like naming a Puppy after Peter Scully or something fucking retarded. Viv's excuses don't make sense.

It's still autistic to still think about, like only someone deranged would try to write a redemption story for someone like Elliot and Columbine types and expect to make it mainstream. Like its for the same reason Valentino is the most hated character among that fandom and the sensitive types, because they would hit too close to home compared to say some dictator or mad scientist.

Yeah, and that's something VIV would do, attempting to redeem people like Elliot is in her nature; the whole point of the post is something she would do, not something I would do. But even IF she did something like that, it's gonna end up like Jeffery Dahmer or even Jack The Ripper. I admit it was autistic to think about considering she already tried this types of shit and failed (by fail I mean woobify the fuck/twinkified the characters.) if anything it's BETTER you don't mix this shit because True Crime Fans already fucked up this level of shit.

I'd imagine if she did do it, she'll find a way to make it to justify why both the losers I mentioned did it, while also forgetting they won't spare a damn.
 
You are apparently not aware of fujos. They routinely fetishize abusive homosexual relationships between males. They even have names for it, the top (Valentino) is a seme and Angel would be a uke (bottom). And they're really into abuse.

They're pretty sick, they're as sick and disgusting as the way more well known male perverts with perversions so twisted they only have names in Japanese.
Oh I’m well aware of them and Vivzie’s status as one, I just try to forget they exist sometimes. But now I remember. Thanks a lot.
 
1-If this was true why didnt vivzie bring it up earlier when people complained about Valentino merch?

2-If she really has no control and it's on Amazon then this is even harder to believe because companies are not retarded and know what consumers want better than creators. Amazon would not only sell angel but Husk keychain if not make it a combined one. They would still pick Alastor and Lucifer but no way they'd not pick Angel.

3-Valentino is not the most mainstream friendly guy and the company should know by this point that doing sexy merch of him would lead to outrage.

BONUS:

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Vivzie you lunatic, Vox and velvette are not canon rapists, this isn't rocket science lol.
Just remembered this, you can run the Bluesky posts through skyview.social to archive them.

Here's the screenshotted post viewed through that.

And here's the archive.

Skyview has trouble with blocked posts these ones, though.
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Yeah, and that's something VIV would do, attempting to redeem people like Elliot is in her nature; the whole point of the post is something she would do, not something I would do. But even IF she did something like that, it's gonna end up like Jeffery Dahmer or even Jack The Ripper. I admit it was autistic to think about considering she already tried this types of shit and failed (by fail I mean woobify the fuck/twinkified the characters.) if anything it's BETTER you don't mix this shit because True Crime Fans already fucked up this level of shit.

I'd imagine if she did do it, she'll find a way to make it to justify why both the losers I mentioned did it, while also forgetting they won't spare a damn.
But Vivzie has no indication of being a true crime fan, she's just a disney adult but stuck in the quirky goth phase of loving Tim Burton and Hot Topic stuff. Hell based on what is known in leaks and what is seen in both her shows, she would never even bother redeeming an actual terrible person with how she would victimize anyone or justify it. Hell let us not forget that she has would never touch real world people or events with a 10 foot pole unless they are a century old.

What I'm trying to say that is really dumb speculation on something that is as likely to happen as Stolas becoming straight.

Vivzie really needs to get off social media, this is just very sad and pathetic. Like she did say more merch would be made but that's all she needed to say, she has no need to crash out so easily.

Does she have anyone to talk to at all to vent too, would be better for her sake to traumadump on someone than this.

Oh I’m well aware of them and Vivzie’s status as one, I just try to forget they exist sometimes. But now I remember. Thanks a lot.
Vivzie just feels like a bizarre time capsule of 2000s fandom cringe. Her interests and everything show that, even her artstyle and the humor in her shows would reflect that.

The show(s) would actually be better if she did.
Yeah I think the only idea she "stole" from the fanbase is just Vaggie being an angel, otherwise she's just pandering to popular fanships. If she actually went out of her way to grab ideas made by fans, I'm pretty sure she would have enough material for actual missions in Helluva Boss instead of writing a fanfiction of her own show with typical fujoshi tropes like the evil woman who gets in the way, angst, childhood friends, and the sad gay boy shit.
 
Attention gamers, my brainrot has reached critical mass, and I am now writing Hazbin fanfics. I present to you One-Shot Meeting, a series of (relatively) short fics based around retelling the Heaven Embassy scene in Episode 1, but with different characters taking the place of Adam & Lute. I have the first 2 chapters done, and they can be read under the spoilers below (warning for many words).
Suggestions & chapter ideas are welcome.

"Hey, Duckling... I know you always wanted to discuss your redemption plans with Heaven, and... L-Look, there's this post-Extermination meeting coming up, at the Heaven Embassy – you know where it is... Normally I'm supposed to attend these, but I've let them know ahead of time that you're going in my stead. So–so you can present your idea to them... J-Just, I'm gonna warn you ahead of time, don't expect them to listen... Heaven never listens, I've tried to get through to them so many times, and I'm just... tired. I-I-I don't think... I can face her again....
....Anyway, uh – sorry, heh, your old man's rambling again. Good luck, Char-Char... Love you! Bye-!"

That was the message Lucifer had left for Charlie on the Happy Hotel telephone's answering machine that morning. The Princess of Hell felt a certain degree of trepidation, even as she prepared her notes, frantically gave out orders to her staff and entrusted her girlfriend Vaggie with keeping the guests safe while she was away. Her dad never spoke much about Heaven, let alone the Exorcists that raided Hell every year to violently claim the lives of her people; but the few times he had briefly mentioned their leader, she could see a brief flash of regret in Lucifer's eyes, one that he quickly buried & laughed off with some weak excuse, refusing to elaborate and dodging any questions Charlie had. Her mom, Lilith, acted much the same way, though she concealed her remorse with flippant scoffs and mantras like "the past is the past", "let bygones be bygones", so on, so forth. Over time, the young Morningstar simply stopped asking – surely her parents had good reasons to keep the past buried...? Yet now, as she was about to meet the Exorcists' mysterious commander in person, those doubts once again began creeping up in Charlie's mind, and this time she couldn't just brush them off.

The Heaven Embassy wasn't exactly hard to find, the opulent gold-&-blue monolith of a structure sticking out like a sore thumb amidst the grimy urban architecture of Pentagram City. As Charlie stood at the foot of the colossal building, looking up at its rich decorations and cherubic statues, notes tightly clutched to her chest with both arms, she couldn't help but feel a strange dread radiating from the seemingly inviting exterior. It was like she was about to walk into some dark cave, where an ancient predatoey beast lay in wait just beyond the mouth. But after a few seconds of hesitation, she managed to successfully convince herself it was just her nerves playing a trick on her, and stepped through the glass entrance doors.

Inside, the lobby was dark, almost pitch black – not a single light on anywhere – to the point Charlie had to actively squint just to make out the vague layout of the room. It appeared she was alone... but then, a rich, melodious female voice rang out, seemingly coming from every direction: "In here..." It sounded like her mother's, but deeper, more inherently authoritative. Rather than a singer's voice, it resembled the exact kind that Charlie imagined a commander would have. As if by magic, a white line lit up on the ceiling, curving along the bends of the Embassy's darkened rooms & hallways, seemingly guiding her to some destination; and the Princess followed it, against her better judgement. Her legs just... moved on their own, and she couldn't stop herself from following, she felt like she HAD to, like it was an order that shouldn't be questioned.

The glowing line ended in a simplistic arrowhead, pointing at a large nondescript door, just one of many in the Embassy. Again, that commanding voice spoke, now coming from the other side of the doorway, yet still perfectly audible: "Come in." With a stressed sigh, Charlie reached out with one hand to turn the glass knob, and pushed the door open... revealing another dark room. "Uh... H-Hello?" she meekly called out, taking a few steps inside – only to get startled as the lights in the meeting room suddenly turned on, and send her papers flying everywhere as a result.

"Ooh, shit," the young demoness mumbled to herself as she bent down to swiftly gather the scattered notes, and once most of them were in hand, Charlie glanced up, past the edge of the imposingly large table, flashing a shy little smile at the tall angelic figure she had caught a glimpse of. "Sor–" the words died in her throat as her eyes took in the details of the Heavenly being. "–ry..."

Sat on the other end of the table was a towering angel, clad in the same dark-gray uniform that the Exorcists all seemed to wear (from the little glimpses of them Charlie had caught of them during every yearly Extermination), but modified to more closely resemble a military official's clothing – kind of like those human generals Lucifer had once shown Charlie pictures of... However, unlike the rank-and-file Exterminators, this angel was not wearing one of those black horned helmets with weird digital faces on them; instead, *her* true face was on full display, almost... human-like...? She had an angular facial structure, unnaturally pale skin, short black hair that was pulled back and tied into a small ponytail, and piercing red eyes that were staring holes through Charlie's soul, despite the tall woman's otherwise neutral disposition. Above her head floated a light-red halo, made out of two concentric circles, each with a small spiky 'crown' at what would be the front-facing section. All in all, it almost felt like this person was designed to be the perfect opposite of her mother in every way...

Breaking out of her stupor and glancing down at the floor shyly, unable to handle much more of that intense gaze, the Princess repeated her greeting: "Hi, I'm, uh, Charlie Morningstar–"
"I know." The tall Angel coolly replied, as her feathered wings slightly shifted behind her back. Out of the corner of her eye, Charlie was able to note their pristine white color, except for the tips, which were shaded a deep red. "Your father—" the corner of her mouth twitched, "–had told us about you, Charlotte. Go ahead and take a seat, we have much to discuss."
"Oh, thank you–" the demoness pulled out a chair and was about to sit down, when she paused and gave the angelic woman a questioning look. "..wait, what do you mean 'us'?"

'Ahem.' A male voice coughed from somewhere to her left, and Charlie instinctively glanced in that direction. An Exorcist angel stood there, holding a lever-action rifle with a bayonet made of Angelic Steel; dressed in the usual uniform and helmet, but with a fancy white suit hastily thrown on top. He must've been there from the start, but the Princess hadn't noticed, what with being too focused on the woman who had been presumably been the leader of Heaven's bloodthirsty warriors. Which was admittedly strange – a lady being in charge of an all-male army... but this was no time to judge.

'Isn't it kinda funny how she's taller than her old man?' the Exorcist idly commented all of a sudden, eyeing Charlie with a vaguely amused smile plastered on his mask's digital face. The Princess' face instantly reddened, and she opened her mouth to give a fuming retort – but the Leader was faster, raising a black-gloved hand to silence her subordinate.
"Mage, behave yourself," she gently admonished the shorter male angel, though her lips briefly curled up into a small smile, before she schooled her features back into neutrality.*
'Sorry, ma'am,' "Mage" replied, glancing over at her, the shit-eating grin nonetheless remaining on his mask.

Charlie just sighed and directed her attention back to the tall Angelic woman. "Right, thank you, miss...?" she paused expectantly.
"Eve." the Leader replied, and slightly tilted her head to the side. "If you're wondering, yes, I'm THAT Eve. Mother of Humanity. Pleased to make your acquaintaince, Charlotte Morningstar."
The Princess opened her mouth, but remained silent, gaping like a fish at the taller woman for several long seconds, during which Mage quietly snickered in amusement at her reaction. All the while, the gears in Charlie's brain were working overtime, trying to process this new information. EVE was in charge of the Exorcists?! The same Eve that her parents gifted with the Fruit of Knowledge, back in the days of Eden? But then why did they have those brief looks of regret every time they mentioned her? Why was her dad – the same Lucifer who could stare down a raging Uncle Satan without worry – afraid of facing her!?

All these questions, and more, bubbled to the surface, as Charlie opened and closed her mouth a few times, before finally managing to get her mind back on track. Right, right, redemption – she was here to talk about her redemption plans...!
"S-Sorry," she stammered out with an apologetic smile. "I just didn't expect to be meeting, well... you, heheh..."
"Don't worry," Eve replied, with a smirk of her own. "Everyone who meets me for the first time reacts the same way. You could say I'm used to it."

"A-Anyway-! I have a lot to get through and not much time, so–" The Princess placed her notes down on the table, unveiling their contents – crayon drawings of rainbows and unicorns and people happily holding hands. She pretended not to notice the way Eve arched her eyebrow, or hear Mage's bemused comment of '...the fuck...?'. "–I'm here to propose a solution to our shared biggest problem!"
'Global warming?' "Overpopula–"
"Overpopulation! Of Hell," Charlie chirped, and was about to continue, before Eve cut her off.

"The solution already exists." The Mother of Humanity's reply was sharp and immediate. "And it's called the annual Extermination. Mage," she turned her head to glance down at her subordinate, who perked up in response. "Do remind me, how many Sinners did you put down this year?"
'Five hundred and ninety two, ma'am!' the Exorcist proudly stated, twirling his rifle around in his arms. 'That's forty more than last year! Awesome, right?'
"Uhh, not awesome at all..." Charlie hesitantly spoke up, her initial enthusiasm slowly fading. "..T-Those are my people, you know..."
"They aren't. You are a Hellborn, and they are Sinners." Eve coldly replied, dismissive of the Princess' plight. "They're getting the punishment they deserve, and which your parents are unable or unwilling to mete out. If you're looking for problems to solve, concern yourself with your fellow Hellborn, who are chafing under the caste system put in place by your father and the other Deadly Sins."

The young Morningstar bristled under the weight of the Second Woman's scathing lecture, and had to take a second to find her words. "The Sinners are my people too-! I-I can't just ignore what you people do to them every year! Just..." She inhaled, then exhaled, trying to calm herself down, and finished in a more even tone of voice: "...just hear me out, please."
Eve stared down at her for an uncomfortably long period of time, before sighing. "...Fine. What is this solution you wish to propose?"
"R-Redemption," Charlie quickly stammered out, and slightly winced as she saw Mage scoff at the mere mention of the word. "For Sinners... See, I have this Hotel–"
"That is enough."

This latest interruption pushed the Princess over the edge, and she swiftly stood up, balling up her fists in anger. "Seriously!?" she shouted, furiously glaring at Eve. "I haven't even started yet and you're already telling me to stop-?"
'You heard the boss, Princess. If she says to zip it, you fuckin' zip it!'
"SHUT UP!" Charlie all but shrieked at Mage, who could only lean back and repeatedly blink in surprise, then refocused her attention on Eve. "And you! How can you be so cruel, denying these people their second chance?! People who've simply made mistakes?!"
"You don't understand what you're saying–"
"Aren't they your children too? Just what kind of Mother are you?!"
"SHUT YOUR MOUTH, YOU FOOLISH GIRL!" Eve suddenly yelled, the sheer power behind her voice making the entire room rumble, and her red eyes flashing with an unearthly glow for a moment.

Charlie immediately sunk back into her seat, her outrage evaporating like a fine mist, being replaced by sheer, naked fear. All at once, she understood – this was the primordial beast waiting for her inside the cave, and in her folly, she had just angered it.
The Mother of Humanity, meanwhile, closed her eyes and took a deep breath, then opened them again. "I apologize. I lost my temper for a moment. Now, taking your argument from the top on down..."
She cleared her throat, and went back to her 'official' way of speaking.

"To start with, the Sinners have already been provided second and third and fourth chances in their Earthly lives. They refused to take them, to change for the better, that is why they are here in Hell. It's the cut-off point, so to speak. As for your calling their actions 'mistakes', well... let me ask you a question, Charlotte. What is the difference between a mistake and a sin?"
"Uhh..." the Princess was taken aback by the sudden query, but still thought about it for a second, and replied unsurely:" "A sin is when you're doing something bad, and... you know that it's bad, but do it anyway...?"
Eve nodded. "Close, but not quite. A sin is only a sin when the one committing an evil action actively revels in it being so. Think of a... torturer getting pleasure from hurting their victim. That's also why most soldiers don't end up in Hell – they know they have to kill their enemies, but don't find joy in it; it is simply duty that binds them."
"I see..." At this point, Charlie wasn't sure what to make of Eve – the woman rapidly switched between emotional extremes, from polite Heaven representative to furious maternal figure to now being an educator...? In the meantime, the Exorcists' leader continued her speech.

"No, only the worst of the worst find their way down here. The rapists, the cannibals, the murderers of men, women and children alike... And those are the ones unworthy of being called my children, let alone redemption."
"So you think it's impossible then...?" the Princess muttered, blankly staring up at the Second Woman.
"In ten thousand years, not one Sinner has found their way out of this infernal pit. Heaven has tried many times to make them see the light, to no avail... I'm sorry to say, Charlotte, but your chances of success would be just as slim."
Charlie's worst doubts being proven true, she slouched in her seat and covered her face with both hands, a few small tears dripping from her eyes and trickling out between her thin fingers. She had suddenly heard footsteps approaching and felt a gentle hand laying on her shoulder. When the Princess hesitantly looked up, she saw Eve standing right next to her chair, looking down at her with an expression of pity.

"I hate to sadden you like this," Eve murmured, softly patting Charlie's shoulder, her other hand wiping a stray tear from the Princess' face. "Don't misunderstand – it isn't wrong for you to care. But as I said, your attention is best directed elsewhere..."
"N-No," the young demoness interrupted, gathering the last shreds of her courage and determination. "I-I can't turn away... I'll prove you wrong... Just watch...!"
Eve hummed thoughtfully, staring down at her. "Foolish girl," she quietly repeated, though this time the words were spoken with a small smile, without any malice or anger behind them. "Very well. We'll see if you have what it takes."

The leader of the Exorcists pulled her hand away and strode back to her chair. "Now, if you've said your piece, Charlotte, I must say mine." She took a deep breath and looked the Morningstar straight in the eye. "The Exterminations are being moved up. The next one is in six months."
This revelation was just another hammer blow to Charlie's heart, and she only barely flinched, though her mind still desperately wondered 'why'. As if reading her thoughts, Eve decided to explain further. "One of our own has died in yesterday's culling. You understand this is a problem. Thus, it is our responsibility to find the ones responsible, as soon as possible."
Mage, who was uncharacteristically silent during much of this conversation, spoke up from the side. 'Pivot was such a cool dude too...' His mask now bore a solemn expression.

"My condolences," the Princess murmured. It was weird seeing the Exorcists act like this, but she supposed that, despite their actions, they were people with friends and families too. It only made sense that they would mourn their losses.
"Thank you, Charlotte," Eve replied, and slightly bowed her head, before standing up once more. "But that is all the information I wished to convey. Unless you have anything else, we will be taking our leave–"
"Wait!"
The Second Woman and her subordinate paused, expectantly staring at Charlie, who felt a lump start to form in her throat... But she swallowed it down, and spoke up.
"You... I noticed you don't seem to like my parents very much... Can I just ask why? I-I mean, in Eden, didn't they give you the Fruit of Knowledge to try and enlighten you–"

For a second, she felt like she had overstepped again, as Eve's face briefly contorted in anger... until the Mother of Humanity managed to restrain herself, and stared down at Charlie with a stone-faced expression. "That... is a story for another time. Whatever Lucifer and Lilith may have told you, let's just say they left out a lot of crucial details. I have nothing else to add."
Before the Princess could say or ask anything else, Eve and Mage had disappeared in a flash of light, and the meeting room was plunged into darkness once more. Charlie sat there, alone, unmoving, before finally breaking out of her trance. She gathered her notes, and slowly walked out of the room.

As she left the Embassy, the Princess could feel her heart beating like a drum inside her head. That was easily the most stressful encounter she's ever had, and worst of all, Charlie only had six months to provide any tangible proof that redemption was possible. Still, a lingering ember of determination burned within her – determination that the day would come, when she'd prove the Mother of Mankind wrong.

The post-Extermination meetings that took place in the Pride Ring's very own Heaven Embassy had always been a point of contention for Charlie's parents. Whenever Lucifer had to attend one, he consistently came back home in a bad mood, ranting about "that preachy bastard trying to give [him] advice like he knows any better" until he ran out of energy and secluded himself in his workshop. And whenever it was Lilith's turn, she had always returned seeming a little shaken, and was often found sitting in one spot, ignoring everything around her and staring off into nothingness... as if deeply contemplating some sort of cosmic truth. But when the next day rolled around, things inevitably went back to normal and the King & Queen of Hell were all smiles once again.

Today, though, the duty to attend fell upon Charlie, as her father had given her an opportunity to present her redemption plans to the Exorcists' mysterious leader; although, even at this critical juncture, he hadn't revealed who exactly it was – their identity was just one of many secrets that Lucifer & Lilith had collectively kept from their daughter. For that matter, the Princess herself couldn't recall ever seeing or even catching a small glimpse of anyone that could fit the bill. Her parents never let her out of the palace during an Extermination, so she only saw Heaven's bloodthirsty warriors perform their grisly duties from her bedroom window. But even then, Charlie never spotted anyone distinguishable from the rank-and-file Exorcists. And yet, she could recognize that both the army as a whole and its individual soldiers moved in the organised and precise manner that could only be achieved by having their commander right there in the field with them... Either way, she still had some theories on who it could be, and there was only one way to find out which of them, if any, was correct.

As the Princess strode into the opulent Heaven Embassy, all her notes tightly clutched to her chest, she was a little offput to find the lights off and the lobby totally empty. She'd expected there to at least be, like... a little Cherub angel to welcome and usher her to the right room. Was this how it always went for her parents? But she was broken out of her thoughts when a door partially opened on the far end of an adjacent hallway, and a male voice called out from the other side: ”Come in!”

Hesitantly, the blonde demoness strode over to the door, and squeezed her way inside – finding herself in a meeting room, with a large table and several chairs on either side. It wasn't particularly well-lit, with only a desk lamp off to the side providing illumination, but she could still make out a tall figure sitting behind the other end of the table – who seemed indistringuishable from an average human male, at first glance. The mysterious man had fair skin, curly & messy black hair that barely reached his shoulders, icy-blue eyes, and was dressed in a simple blue coat with a white fur collar – like the kind people on Earth would wear during the winter season. (Not that Charlie had ever been to Earth, but her parents had shown her some images & videos from there, so this was her closest point of reference.)
The only thing that distinguished him as an angel was the light-blue halo, decorated with a few floating crystals, above his head, and the similarly-colored pair of feathered wings behind his back.

As soon as she entered, the Heavenly male glanced up at her, and flashed a polite smile. “Ah, good morning, Charlotte!” he greeted, and sat up straight, tucking what looked like a phone into his coat's pocket. ”Your father told me you'd be coming. Please, take a seat!”
"He did?" the Princess asked, a little weirded out but nonetheless complying, as she pulled a chair out and sat down in it, placing her notes down in front of herself.
”Yes, and frankly, when I heard what he had to say, I had to restrain myself from going over there and giving him a good smack to the face! And one to your mother too, wherever she is...”
"I'd... appreciate it if you didn't hit my parents, please," Charlie deadpanned, but the angel seemindly didn't hear it, and kept on rambling: ”I mean, how could they be so inconsiderate? Why did they never inform me that I had a niece?!”
"Wait, WHAT!?"

Charlie shot up from her seat like hot water had just been poured into her lap, and stared at the angelic male with widened eyes, opening and closing her mouth for several seconds, before finally wheezing out: "Wuh–wuh–what do you mean, niece? Wha–... D-Does that mean you're my uncle?"
”Yes! And trust me, when I first heard the news, I was just as shocked as you were!” the angel proclaimed.
"Wait, wa-wait, wait..." Charlie stammered. "W-What is your name, even?"
”Ah, well... I'm Michael. You can just call me Mike, if you prefer. Don't worry, I'm not gonna force you to use the 'uncle' prefix; we can cross that bridge once you feel you're ready.”
"And... a-and you're the leader of the Exorcists.”
Michael paused for a moment, but then gave a casual nod. ”Yes.”

The Princess slowly sunk back into her seat, and spent almost half a minute blankly staring ahead as her mind struggled to process this new information. This entire time, she actually had an uncle she knew nothing about?! And not just a 'honorary' relative like the Sins were, no, this was an ACTUAL, biologically-related uncle! And since her mother certainly never had any siblings, this could only mean...
"So..." Charlie began, fidgeting in her seat. "Does that mean you're... my dad's brother?"
If Michael was confused by her need to have everything clarified, he didn't show it, and nodded once more. ”Yes, I am.”
"But..." The young Morningstar briefly paused, and looked over the angel, studying his appearance intently. "You look so... different from him. I mean..."
”Siblings don't always come out looking similar to each other, Charlotte,” Michael replied with a small chuckle, though his expression of amusement quickly dropped into something more neutral. ”Besides, your father did always make it a point to style himself as my exact opposite. For what reason, I do not know.”

"Yeah, dad seems so fancy compared to you," Charlie giggled, but quickly slapped a hand over her mouth. "Um... no offense. It's just that I didn't expect an angel to look so... average...?"
”None taken,” Michael shrugged with a small smile, then gestured to his blue coat. ”And yes, I've always striven to appear this way. It wouldn't do for an angel of my rank to go around in extravagant outfits; I am the Virtue of Humility, after all.”
"Really? How does that work?"
”Well, you know how down here is ruled by the Seven Deadly Sins? It's the same in Heaven, except we're the Seven Heavenly Virtues. Basically the polar opposites of you guys.”
"Huh," the Princess simply said. That admittedly was kinda cool to know, but very quickly, another question came to mind.

"So you knew my dad back before he was... wait." A strange look washed over Charlie's face. "You're... the Taxiarch."
Though she didn't know much about Heaven, and her parents certainly weren't keen on talking about it, the Princess still picked up certain bits of info about the place. A little rumor here, an ancient legend there. And if the rough picture she had eventually formed was to be believed, Michael was the one directly responsible for exiling her parents down here...
As if reading her thoughts, the angel slowly nodded, his expression growing a little more solemn. ”Yes, your assumption is correct. I banished Lucifer & Lilith from Heaven.”

"Why?" the young demoness almost whispered, giving the Taxiarch a pleading look. "Why did you do it...?"
”It had to be done.” Michael answered steadily. ”When your parents gave Eve that apple, evil was unleashed upon creation. They had to be punished.”
"But it was just a mistake-!" Charlie insisted, shaking her head, as a tear welled up in the corner of her left eye.
”So?” the angel challenged, raising an eyebrow. ”Mistake or not, there are consequences for each action we take in life. There are repercussions... Banishment was simply the price they paid.” He briefly paused, drumming his fingers on the table's surface. ”Think of it this way... Whenever a servant working at your father's palace makes a colossal blunder, he fires them, yes?“
"I–"

The words died in Charlie's throat, and though she wasn't sure what point her uncle was trying to maks, she nodded: "Y-Yeah, but... that's different-!"
”The circumstances might be different,” Michael continued, undeterred. ”But the basic situation remains the same – someone makes a major mistake, one that causes a lot of damage, and they face the consequences for it.” He huffed, blue eyes narrowing slightly as he glanced aside. ”That was a repeat pattern of behavior for your father, by the way...”

"What do you mean-? Dad was just a big dreamer, you were all stifling his creativity–"
”I'm sure that's what he would like you and others to believe, Charlie,” the Taxiarch interrupted once more. ”And from a certain point of view, that might've been true, but here's the thing about his 'big ideas' – he never gave much thought about how they might pan out. Here, let me think of an example...” The angel looked off to the side once more, now full-on drumming both hands against the table's edge, before he made a 'hm!' noise and glanced back to the Princess. ”Dragons,” he finally said.
"Huh?"

”Yeah, those were his idea. Before he got obsessed with ducks, Lucifer was really big on dragons. He tried to sell us on the concept soooo many times...! But the thing is, giant fire-breathing lizards and primordial Earth just didn't mix; they were too destructive. If they were allowed to propagate, Earth would become a scorched wasteland in a few years flat. That... obviously went against Father's plan, as you can imagine.”
"Father?" Charlie repeated in confusion. She felt like her head was spinning more and more with each revelation her uncle dumped on her.

For a second, Michael just looked at her like she was dumb. ”Yes, Father,” he slowly spoke. ”You know... The Empyrean.” Pause. ”The Creator of All.” Another pause. ”He who is most commonly known as God?”
The blonde demoness sighed in distress, and slouched back in her seat. "My parents never told me about anyone like that," she admitted. "They always said it was you Heavenly Council people who created the universe..."
The Taxiarch blinked several times in quick succession. ”Seriously...? Wow.” He shook his head in disbelief. ”I don't know whether to be outraged that they never taught you about the Lord, or be relieved that they didn't dare besmirch His name.”

”Anyway, yes, as I was saying, Lucifer's later ideas all were rather poorly thought out, but whenever any one of us pointed out the flaws, he got... hostile. Defensive. I know those two words mean the exact opposite thing, but it's the best I can explain his behavior.”
"Well..." Charlie still felt like there was more to this story than Michael was letting on. "Surely there was a good reason he was reacting that way...?"
“Yes, in a way... I suppose we too were responsible for him turning out the way he did. See, at first, when his ideas were still sensible, we spent a lot of time... gassing him up.“ Seeing his niece give him a bewildered look, he felt the need to explain. ”Feeding his ego, I mean. And trust me, whenever he came up with something good, it was really, REALLY good, so the praise wasn't unwarranted, it just... went to his head. So when Lucifer started receiving pushback for the first time, it hurt his inflated sense of pride something fierce. He felt this need to one-up us, to prove us wrong somehow, and every time he failed, it must have gnawed at him, must have angered him just a little more...”

”Over time, he began avoiding us, and believe me, we all tried to reach out to him. Lucifer just refused to listen... But along comes your mother, fresh off of butting heads with Adam–”
"What was the issue between them, by the way?" Charlie suddenly asked. Her mom had always said that it was because Adam was far too controlling of a husband, but something told the Princess her account of events was just as biased as dad's.
Michael hummed thoughtfully, before replying. “They were both dominant personalities, let's put it that way. Adam was designed to be the archetypal patriarch – a strong protector and a stern, but caring teacher to his children; while Lilith was to be the archetypal queen – a nurturing, well-spoken figure, the brains to her husband's brawn. Unfortunately, she, ah... wanted dominion over more than just the animals of Eden, you understand,” he tightly pressed his lips together, and wiggled his eyebrows at Charlie, who couldn't help but shudder.

"That was seriously it?" she asked in disbelief. "My mom and Adam split up... just because she wanted to be on top?"
"No, that was just the catalyst," Michael thankfully assured her. "Over time, I think... she started to envy us as well, and wished to become our equal in power... If not greater. She must have resented having to do all these chores, naming the beasts and plants; got this idea that Eden was a cage designed to restrict her and Adam's full potential.”
"Was it?" the Princess inquired, and her uncle just shrugged in response.

”Ehh, it was more of a playpen, really. Anyway, yeah, getting this story back on track, along comes Lilith, who doesn't really know any better, gasses Lucifer up once again, one thing leads to another, and boom – they're in love. At this point, we were quite aware of how we had messed up when handling both of them, so we just said 'okay, we recognize your love as genuine, but you still messed up, so you both can go hang out on Earth and basically, we won't get in your way, bon voyage'. Adam was admittedly deeply hurt by beibg left alone. But then...” Michael paused dramatically. ”...Our Father made Eve out of Adam's rib, Lilith got jealous when she found out she was replaced, and... ahh, you know how the rest of this story goes.”

As he finished speaking, Charlie sat there in silence, not moving, too busy thinking. A part of her still wanted to be mad at Michael for kicking her parents out of Heaven. But another, more rational part told the Princess that though his actions may have been a little excessive, they were, from a certain point of view, quite justified. And just as her uncle looked up at a clock on the wall and commented “Oh man, I gotta go, sorry I spent so much time rambling,” – a third part of her spoke up, reminding her of the notes still sitting in front of her.
"Uncle Mike, wait!"

The black-haired angel froze and looked over at Charlie. ”Yeah?”
"S-Sorry, I was so busy listening that I completely forgot, but I have this project that I wanted to present to you," Charlie frantically belted out and all but threw the stack of papers over in his direction. She quickly added: "It's, um... a possible alternative to the Exterminations. I'm thinking... redemption. F-For Sinners..."
She couldn't help but cringe at her own way of speaking, and even more at the way Michael hummed and raised his eyebrow as he flipped through her notes – which were mostly crayon drawings of rainbows and unicorns and other such things.
“Well, it's a... novel concept,” the Taxiarch began, clearly choosing his words carefully. ”But it needs work.” With that, he neatly stacked the papers back up and handed them back to the Princess.

"D-Do you think it can... succeed?" she meekly asked.
But Michael answered with a question of his own. ”You know, many people, both down here and in Heaven, believe that Hell is Forever. Why do you think that is?"
That gave Charlie pause, and she looked aside for a moment, before replying in an unsure manner: "Uhh... it's because... people don't try to get out, by trying to be better...?"
”That's part of it, yes,” the angel nodded. ”You know, a lot of humans have this belief that Hell is meant to be a place of eternal suffering, where demons torture sinful souls. I imagine your parents designed the Pride Ring the way it is to subvert those expectations.”
"Yes, because they don't think eternal torture is a fair punishment–"
Again, Michael cut her off. ”But in so doing, they've created a Hell that is just as awful as the likes of Dante's Inferno.”
"W-What do you mean...?" Charlie asked, taken aback by her uncle's reasoning for the umpteenth time.

“Let me put it this way... The Sinners down here can be separated into three groups. First are the ones overjoyed to find out that there is no eternal torture, that they can indulge their darkest vices to their heart's content, without fear of punishment. And indulge they do, unaware that they're slowly killing their own humanity, becoming no different from the basest beasts.
Then there are those for whom the absence of punishment is its own torment. They know they did wrong, and they expect to face repercussions, but when they don't, when they find themselves in a Hell without torture and see those freely indulging Sinners... they become outraged, they think that the universe must be unjust if this is what Hell is like. And eventually, they seek to correct that injustice, by any means necessary. They become the torturers.
Lastly, there's the third group – those who are stuck in the middle. The proverbial crab at the bottom of the bucket, afraid to try and climb to the top, because they'll just get dragged down. One side will do it because they think no one deserves that second chance, and the other does it out of sheer sadism, because they don't want to lose another toy to practice their darkest impulses upon.
So there you have it – this is Hell, as your parents' idea of it has panned out to be. An ecosystem that's been perfectly cultivated by its inhabitants over the course of centuries, to ensure no one can escape its tainted grasp. Whichever way you cut it, to exist down here is to be in abject misery. The True Death we bring to Sinners every year might as well be mercy. So I'm afraid you have your work cut out for you if you really want to go through with this.”

Charlie took in Michael's words without a peep, and sat there in deep contemplation. Eventually, after what seemed like hours of silence (but actually was a little under a minute), she spoke up.
"I have to try..." the Princess whispered. "This is my dream... I can't just give up on it..." She looked up at her uncle, determination blazing in her eyes. "Even if I have to reshape all of Hell to make redemption possible."
”There's two kinds of dreams, you know,” he answered, looking aside. ”There's the dreams that shatter upon contact with cold, hard reality, and then there are the dreams that... survive. They might change drastically from what they initially were, but they nonetheless remain intact. Which category does your dream fall into, niece?” Michael poignantly paused. ”Time will tell.”

With those last words, he stepped back and disappeared in a flash of light and a gust of cool wind, leaving behind some icy flakes on the floor. Charlie continued sitting there for a few more minutes, before standing up from her chair, gathering her notes and silently leaving the room. The admittedly lengthy conversation had given her plenty to think about; and the perfect image she had of her parents up until today had been tarnished by Michael's words. Yet, as she made her way back to the Hotel, a small hope still blossomed within her, that one day, her dream may just survive contact with 'cold, hard reality'.
 
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Vivzie is definitely a lolcow at this point lol

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>I didnt do that
>Okay i did and i'm sorry...
>However i'm not sorry.
>Because they asked for it.

This literally means vivzie is supportive of hazbin fans calling the critics NIGGERS because "they're just exhausted of being attacked for liking the show" (Hazbin fans are the most oppressed minority group).
 
Vivzie isn’t helping herself in this case.

If she truly believed that she doesn’t care about what people’s opinions are she’d be posting about which places she’s visiting this time than argue with acab Emily’s online

She needs a better Pr team at this rate and not interact with any of her hatedom and/or hardcore Stan’s, like especially with her history of being in online spaces she should realize that you can never win with these type of things over the internet.

Hell dare I say she’d probably be a bit more respected if She just deleted all her socials and never posted again.
 
I know we JUST had this conversation in this thread, but apparently it’s gone and reached Xitter.
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Man, right now there’s two wolves fighting inside of me. One wants to generally agree with what most of these people are saying since the haters can be idiots, the other doesn’t want to stand by Vivzie and her dogshit rapist character who she gets autistically defensive over.
 
Vivzie is definitely a lolcow at this point lol

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>I didnt do that
>Okay i did and i'm sorry...
>However i'm not sorry.
>Because they asked for it.

This literally means vivzie is supportive of hazbin fans calling the critics NIGGERS because "they're just exhausted of being attacked for liking the show" (Hazbin fans are the most oppressed minority group).
She also semi implied her fans are Neo-Nazia by the rhetoric comment.
 
I know we JUST had this conversation in this thread, but apparently it’s gone and reached Xitter.
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Man, right now there’s two wolves fighting inside of me. One wants to generally agree with what most of these people are saying since the haters can be idiots, the other doesn’t want to stand by Vivzie and her dogshit rapist character who she gets autistically defensive over.
Again context matters for the merch, Joker is not rocking out with his clown horn and clown noses of you know what I mean. They are blatantly ignoring the types of merchandise and comparing a tomato to a potato. It would be different if it was Valentino doing something else and not being a "sex icon" making him look hot cus he's "rugged" and "taboo". They could have Valentino merch I think it's really weird, but they could have him blowing his heart smoke, or like him being a pimp shooting his lowest earners. Again he's just a "goofy sexy rapist boi uwu" and that's whats insulting is she doesn't expanded on it and its downright degenerate. It degrades the allegory of sex workers and the struggles they're facing as it makes AngelDust just look like he's in a "bad relationship" and not that he's getting activately taken advantage of, exploited and raped.
 
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