Greer v. Moon, No. 20-cv-00647 (D. Utah Sep. 16, 2020)

[Debbie Macomber]

Partial W for Greer. Greer now only owes Null 1k
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Didn't someone say the District Judge would HAVE to ask defendants for a response if he planned on granting Russell's request because he can't grant without giving Null a chance to defend himself? Does that apply to granting in part?

Also, read footnote:

Presumably. As in, the District Judge admits he didn't even read Hardin's list of costs filed yesterday.

Keep in mind, this isn't the magistrate Judge "knocking it down" $4000, it's the District Judge who didn't even read Hardin's number saying "I don't know how much it really cost but $1000 has to be less, right? I dunno I didn't read that shit it's boring."

Does Hardin have any recourse for the District Judge granting Russ's objection WITHOUT asking for an answer while ADMITTING he also didn't even read what Hardin's actual fees were and just awarded what he guestimates is less.

But, I also think District Judge David Barlow is only granting sanctions for the one motion to exclude. I've said before that when Magistrate Judge first gave the show cause order it was only why Russell shouldn't have to pay Hardin's fees for that motion, but AFTER he upped it to all discovery going back 7 months. So I think District Judge's award of $1000 is less egregious a discount if read as slightly less than Hardin's presumed fees for one motion as opposed to all his work for more than half a year, which probably also means the District Judge valued Hardin's hourly rate as higher than the buddy rate he gives Null as quoted in the document the District Judge admits he didn't read.

 

[rel=alternate]

We all know that In 10 years, when the trial is finally scheduled, Greer will try to call a witness anyway. When blocked, he will whine that he already paid the (three times reduced) $50 of sanctions, therefore he shouldn't be held to the other penalties either, cause it's all even now!

Greer wanted nothing more but to pay the defendant. But his disability and the constant defamation the defendant and his lawyer subjected Greer to made it impossible to obtain a job in law, and he has to keep his head above water Ubering.

Although Greer did Venmo multiple women on Instagram, in what appears to be solicitation, he did so with the intention of paying defendant. Ultimately.

Indeed, Greer has been working tirelessly these past few years to get his own brothel up and working. This idea came to him after he was stiffed by a prostitute.

The court will agree that one should not pay 2.5K just to go to Olive Gardens. And that lit a fire in Greer's belly. A fire that still rages, and a mission he intends to accomplish.

In light of these elements, Greer's investment in his future business endeavors can be seen as the first step in paying back defendant.

The matter is therefore dismissed, and Greer would like for a payment plan to be established based on the opening of his upcoming brothel.

 

[Kosher Dill]

Anyway, what happens next when Greer doesn't pay in a month? Does the deadline mean anything, or will the court just say "This is now a debt, the clock starts ticking on interest now"?

 

[LiquidChrisRespecter]

would simply be the acorn growing into the mighty oak which is lodged firmly in Greer's ass

It's uncanny. I was actually imagining this earlier today after the whole "I'm not paying a dime" email a day after the deadline to respond expired.

 

[AnOminous]

Can this reduction to 1k be appealed? Not that I think it makes much sense to appeal it, just curious.

At the end of the case it could conceivably be appealed but would be subject to abuse of discretion review and that's a high bar to clear, with the court's discretion in sanctions matters being very broad.

This suggests to me that the District Judge will not be so lenient with the second sanction the Magistrate imposed, which while a lesser one, is at least some good progress.

I really don't like the reasoning of this, which seems to use punitive damages reasoning when the purpose of discovery sanctions is supposed to be compensatory.

I don't think it's reversible though, considering the court also claimed that the award was offset by apparently the exact amount of $4,369.93. I'm not sure what the math on that was.

 

[Null]

Didn't someone say the District Judge would HAVE to ask defendants for a response if he planned on granting Russell's request because he can't grant without giving Null a chance to defend himself? Does that apply to granting in part?

Yes, the rule is being broken. He's also breaking the rule because generally the costs are a "shall issue" ordeal and explicitly ability to pay does not matter (I.e. IFP status).

I don't think the judge (the real judge) doesn't know this. He just doesn't care what the rule says. So, why bother complaining?

 

[Prokhor Zakharov]

Trust the plan. WWG1WGA

I'll take your word for it, oh great slobberdog of fantastical and enduring faith.

Dodging collections agencies for the rest of his life 6 years.

The statute of limitations on suing him over the debt is 6 years, and they can only report it to the relevant credit agencies for 7 years.

 

[Useful_Mistake]

Presumably. As in, the District Judge admits he didn't even read Hardin's list of costs filed yesterday.

Keep in mind, this isn't the magistrate Judge "knocking it down" $4000, it's the District Judge who didn't even read Hardin's number saying "I don't know how much it really cost but $1000 has to be less, right? I dunno I didn't read that shit it's boring."

The District Judge didn't have to read Mr. Hardin's costs to resolve the issue, and the amount was immaterial considering the judge had already decided on the appropriate amount. Don't get me wrong, I think he should have read it, but he was not obligated to.

Does Hardin have any recourse for the District Judge granting Russ's objection WITHOUT asking for an answer while ADMITTING he also didn't even read what Hardin's actual fees were and just awarded what he guestimates is less.

He can file a pre-final order motion for reconsideration (which exists in no rules anywhere in any court, but nevertheless Utah recognises this as a thing that exists) in light of the order at 227 and the fact that the defendants didn't get to respond.

See, broadly, Amann v. Office of the Utah Attorney Gen., Case No. 2:18-cv-341 (D. Utah Feb. 28, 2019) for the proposition that such a thing doesn't exist, but is nevertheless recognized by Utah, and Ellis v. Salt Lake City Corp., 553 F. Supp. 3d 990 (D. Utah 2021) for the proposition that this thing can be invoked at "any time before the entry of a [final] judgment.""

 

[not william stenchever]

What's he going to quote next, the Articles of Confederation or do you think he will go straight for the Magna Carta?

I expect him to at some point cite Hammurabi's code of law.

 

[Harvey Danger]

costs are a "shall issue" ordeal and explicitly ability to pay does not matter (I.e. IFP status).

IFP status is overruled by TIN status (The Internet's Nigger)

 

[AnOminous]

At this point, could Russ actually just bow out? It seems like the court is willing to cushion any L so it probably wouldn't make a huge difference on his financial situation.

No. After an answer or motion for summary judgment, it can only be dismissed on agreement of the parties, and I don't see Null agreeing to anything but a dismissal with prejudice, and even that won't make the sanctions go away.

Or Null could just outright refuse to agree to dismiss it at all and insist on a ruling on the actual issues for collateral estoppel purposes. I wouldn't expect that but who knows?

Anyway, what happens next when Greer doesn't pay in a month? Does the deadline mean anything, or will the court just say "This is now a debt, the clock starts ticking on interest now"?

Hardin can then go through the sometimes arcane process of getting a writ of execution on it and go looking for Russ's bank accounts to levy on, or seize his keytar or whatever isn't exempt. And keep doing that, if necessary, until it's all paid up.

I'm not sure he can directly garnish from Lyft or whatever because I believe their drivers are considered independent contractors, or at least Lyft claims that where allowed (they are not allowed in California). I believe there are ways to garnish sources of non-wage income, though as with all debt collection the devil is in the details.

It's probably not economically efficient to collect this debt but I hope Null/Hardin do it anyway. It's worth paying it all or even more just to stick it to that fuckhead (IMO).

 

[ConSluttant]

No. After an answer or motion for summary judgment, it can only be dismissed on agreement of the parties, and I don't see Null agreeing to anything but a dismissal with prejudice, and even that won't make the sanctions go away.

Or Null could just outright refuse to agree to dismiss it at all and insist on a ruling on the actual issues for collateral estoppel purposes. I wouldn't expect that but who knows?

Yeah, at this point he really really REALLY needs at least collateral estoppel to come into play. It's the only thing that stops some lolcows. Others, it doesn't phase (see Brett Kimberlin) but it slaps them down appropriately.

 

[Useful_Mistake]

He could also do this, I suppose, @Debbie Macomber

 

[waffle]

He just doesn't care what the rule says. So, why bother complaining?

Only to make a record about the Trial Court's misconduct for Russ's inevitable tard appeal.

Ninja'ed by Hardin's objections lol

 

[Sexy Senior Citizen]

I'm not concerned about the judge knocking it down to $1000. Greer will find a way to screw himself over. He already said he'll refuse to pay, and I have no doubt Russ is as good as his word. Quality content is incoming.

 

[AnOminous]

I don't think the judge (the real judge) doesn't know this. He just doesn't care what the rule says. So, why bother complaining?

He knows it probably isn't going to be appealed. That's pretty much it. He also "calculated" the amount based on absolutely nothing, with no connection to the factual record whatsoever, just a wild ass guess.

This reminds me how much I miss Judge Campbell.

This is just clownshoes, but I've come to expect it at this point. It's all so tiresome.

I'm not concerned about the judge knocking it down to $1000.

Tbh I don't really care about the dollar amount that much. It's still going to trigger Russhole's trauma lumps something fierce. I just expect a higher quality of judge at the federal level (like Campbell) and especially the appellate level (unlike the Tenth Circuit panel clown act).

 

[DavidS877]

I'm not concerned about the judge knocking it down to $1000. Greer will find a way to screw himself over. He already said he'll refuse to pay, and I have no doubt Russ is as good as his word. Quality content is incoming.

He's got 12 days to tell us the Court why he shouldn't be sanctioned a second time. Quality content is indeed coming.

 

[ScooterL]

Steve is fucking dead! Isn't that enough sanction?

Anyway, what happens next when Greer doesn't pay in a month?

I think he might just come up with the money. If the fantasy of having a girlfriend for an afternoon is worth four grand to him, the fantasy of having a winnable case is probably worth one.

 

[Lord Denning]

Shows how powerful Pro Se/IFP status is that a court is willing to completely disregard its own procedural rules and bend over backwards just to help out poor little Russell . But what's even more incredible than that is that Russ is almost certainly going to appeal this according to ECF No. 229 lmao. Talk about pearls before swine.

 

[lol cow supreme]

Rainbow time.
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The Judge saying "If has has no witnesses and no evidence then it's likely the case would be dismissed."

Is someone telegraphing how this case is going to end?

This is how i read it the second I saw it post. Though I do wish the number was higher, Greer having to #paynull is still a good result. Plus the court is recognizing there are no witnesses that will be called. Which will be great when it comes to trial. Greer doesnt have an IFP filing a little paperwork at stake anymore. He's lost $1000, and has a very good chance of being labled vexations..and maybe some more fees at the end.

I suppose it is tradition by this point for people to keep conflating the District Judge's orders with the Magistrate's, screencaps be damned.

You could color code the documents for those of use who do our filings in crayon. Maybe a cute District Judge/ Magistrate Judge sticker in the top corner of all the documents too.

2. There's two more bites at the apple coming up.

Or perhaps 2 more chances at the cheese?