Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[The best and greatest]

Wonder what the peace terms end up being. I suspect they will be less fair to Ukraine but who knows. It will be interesting to see what concessions Russia is willing to make if any.

 

[Clownish]

Looks like Nuclear proliferation is going to become even more popular now.

Also Taiwan is totally fucked.

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

Again after what happened to Libya and Ukraine after they stopped and handed over their nukes. And nothing happened to India, Pakistan and Best Korea after they shown the world they're now nuclear powers. Of fucking course any nation capable of building and maintaining nuclear power plants and have some sense of self-preservation is going to making their own nukes. If nothing else to just keep the neighbors and other nuclear powers from getting ideas.

Truman monumentally fucked up as this is a game where the only way to win without possible grievous losses is the be the only player. I.E. only the United States have the nukes and no one else.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

>Russians
>White
Select one
The east has never been a part of Western Civilisation, westoids feeling any sort of kinship with anything past the Don is lunacy.

It's not hard at all, it's de jure Ukrainian clay. Rozzia has as much a "legitimate" claim to it as Germany does to Kaliningrad or France to Alegria. yeah there's "self determination" to take into account but that's a bit of a meme when little green men are at play.

In Russia's sphere of influence you're only allowed to self-determine in Russia's favor.

Well it IS a stupid war. It was a stupid decision to invade Ukraine, for what ultimately either seems to be petty Imperial ambitions at worst to schizophrenic tier paranoia over NATO suddenly turning into Hitler 2 at best.
Now close to a couple million people are dead or maimed for seemingly entirely preventable reasons.

People saying "It's a stupid war" often put the blame on Ukraine in the very next breath - it's their fault for defending themselves. If they just allowed themselves to be subjugated, there wouldn't be so many deaths!
Freedom has a price, and you can be fucking sure none of them wanted to find themselves paying in blood. The lack of respect for the sacrifice Ukrainians are making facing this invasion is downright infuriating, to hear this kind of language from Americans of all people? They should understand this better than anyone.

 

[David Nosenberg]

one of the dumbest fucking wars ever with a million white men dead

Culling whites was the point from the start. World leaders have marked the average European man for destruction. Only he can save himself; remains to be seen if he will.

 

[Ghostse]

That graph doesn't show who actually providing the most military hardware, which is still the United States.

Yeah, that's total Aid, not just military. And I'm sure Eurofags are reporting refugee bucks being handed out to Ukrainians in their borders in their totals.

I'm also curious on the breakdown being that we KNOW the DoD over-inflates value on old equipment they transfer (and I'm assuming Eurofag MoDs do as well) and if they are taking the DoDs numbers or doing additional math to get a more realistic number on the hardware.

Has Vance ever been personally involved in negotiating with Russians? Might change his mind on them after he sees first-hand how heavily his opposite reeks of entitlement, vodka, and condescension.

He has not. He's also the one in charge so "Reanimatedcorpse man bad" isn't a valid stance anymore which I'm sure was a good chunk of his previous stance on Ukraine - but he's a politician, thus a liar and charlatan, so who knows what his real stance is.

I'm not full on wrist cutting mald like a eurofag, but I'm now significantly less confident in a Russia beatdown outcome. But its such a massive unknown its pointless to speculate till more info comes out.

But hey, looks like Kellog is out. That's a plus.

They kinda do, but people get snagged on the diplomatic phrasing since it is pretty abnormal for people to do that in politics today. Which I feel like is a stranger aspect of the talk around Trump’s way of diplomacy.

Yeah, Trump does the whole "Publically praise them, then immediately turn around and shlong them" act. There is a definite possibility, as I have said before, the he has removed all of Putin's preconditions for not negotiation, then puts a reasonable proposal on the table, waits for Putin to reject it, and then says "Well, I want this war over ASAP but Putin refuses. Bombs begin falling in 10 minutes."

But he's really, really dedicated to ending this war. He's shifted his views on a lot of things since the summer, but that's the one point that he's kept repeating and is working to make it happen, so its actions and words. He's also being much less bellicose with Putin than he was in his first term.

I guess more the point, Trump seems to really want the war to end. And when people want something, they focus on that and lose focus on the stuff around it. Trump isn't a fool, but neither is Putin, and if Putin takes advantage of that, that is how Putin buys himself two years to rearm and reallign his forces without needing to worry about more refineries blowing up.

Again after what happened to Libya and Ukraine after they stopped and handed over their nukes.

Small point of order, Libya never had nukes. They had stopped and started the efforts to build or procure, but never got enough fissile material for a bomb let alone built one.

Looks like Nuclear proliferation is going to become even more popular now.

Also Taiwan is totally fucked.

Yeah I really hate the lessons that are being learned globally from this conflict.

 

[SBG]

Russians are uniquely prideful of the hardship and poverty imposed on their country by this war. Resilience in face of misery is central to the "Russian soul" unlike in most other nations and the more young white men die, the more supportive an average Russian becomes of this war. They consider it a proof of their unique resilience in contrast to the decadent West and killing more young men is explicitly their objective. They have the same pride in the exorbitant number of casualties that Soviets suffered during World War 2.

Imagine it's a side effect of those wanting a better life where they don't have to deal with dictatorship type shenanigans deciding they should just take off for greener pastures. You end up with mostly people that are fine with those shenanigans staying behind and treating it just the norm. Same thing happens with China.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

Russians are uniquely prideful of the hardship and poverty imposed on their country by this war. Resilience in face of misery is central to the "Russian soul" unlike in most other nations and the more young white men die, the more supportive an average Russian becomes of this war. They consider it as proof of their unique resilience in contrast to the decadent West and killing more young men is explicitly their objective. They have the same pride in the exorbitant number of casualties that Soviets suffered during World War 2.

Usually hardiness is commendable, but not when it's to your own detriment. It's literally being used to justify slaughter of the Russian people and regression in both wealth and quality of life for the average person, while people creating this reality for us are isolated from all of the above. It's nothing but cope to conceal the simple and humiliating truth that they have no say in the matter. I might be in the same position, but at least I don't pretend otherwise.
Someone wise summed up this mentality with a simple saying: "Нас ебут, а мы крепчаем", which could be roughly translated as "Although we're getting fucked, it only makes us stronger". It's bitter irony that mocks submission and lack of will, like what Russians demonstrate under Putin's rule. As everything around them rots away, they still worship him and write letters begging him to save them from the circumstances he himself created, either directly or through neglect and corruption. Much like videos in this thread where soldiers beg Putin to save them from abuse and incompetence of their command, as if he gives a shit.
Also, it's not hard to be "hardy" when your standards are at the level of cattle. Just because you're content with being treated like trash as long as there's something to eat, doesn't make it fucking right.

As a side note, I don't take anything bad said about Russians in this thread personally. I know people these things apply to, I'm simply not one of them. If someone doesn't want to be called a mongoloid snownigger... don't be one, behave like a civilized person, it's that simple. I happen to know people like that as well.
Just because we happen to live in the same country doesn't make us kin, the only purpose for a nation to exist is for the good of everyone in it, something that this regime consistently betrayed, putting the needs of one petty authoritarian cunt over the well-being of regular people. Those that fell for propaganda are akin to lepers, they've become part of this cancerous being that enveloped Russia, leading it to its demise. I'm not about to jump off the cliff with them as their master commands. I don't owe these retards shit.

 

[World in Scarlet]

So far Trump's position is to praise Russia and make concessions without getting anything in return, while smearing Ukraine and Europe with lies and making demands without offering them anything in return.

This is in line with MAGA foreign policy more broadly: Attacks on allies, gifts for enemies.
The issue with Trump is that he doesn't understand foreign politics (as evidenced by his stance vs the EU, NATO, and Mexico) and doesn't really care about anything but himself (too much evidence to list), so he can't be expected to make decisions that align even with US interests. The cope that his incoherent reactivity and flip flopping (incidentally, the one thing he never flip flops on is his seething resentment for Ukraine and Europe more broadly) is part of some plan is based solely on cherry picking, as far as I can see.

If Putin offers a deal that screws over the US and EU but appeals to Trump's ego and imbecilic understanding of the world, I can easily see him picking that.

We'll have to see what happens.

 

[MG-34]

Crimea is a tough one because of how its control transferred. Russia has an extremely strong claim to it on historical grounds.

With the Black Sea Fleet in shambles and no means for Russia to produce new cruisers or aircraft carriers (no ziggers hate reading this thread, digitally made concept ships aren't real warships) makes Cirmea and the military footprint there a white elephant. If the Russians were smart they would focus their fleet efforts in the Pacific where they aren't easily pinned and isolated like in the Baltic or Black Sea region. Also those inbred Turko-Mongolians destroyed the one Dam capable of feeding fresh water in to Crimea so it's going to be a major money sink for whoever holds it.

View attachment 6975857
It took your people more than a decade to realize that men in a dresses are not women.

Compared to the Russians, who just skip the dress part and fag rape each other while saying it's totally not gay, bro.

 

[CheepMeds]

As someone who lives in a post-soviet country with a sizeable minority of Russians. The best I can define their most prime aspect as people and culture is Abdication of one's own Personal Responsibility.

Most Russians, hedge their life's sense of pride on the accomplishments of someone or something else as long as it falls in their Russian in-group. In practice that plays out in individuals gradually passing the responsibility of their life’s security and stability on and on and on until it centralizes into something or someone that no one can correct.

However, when ever they have to pay for their Faustian bargain and millions die in the process. The survivors instead of ever correcting their complacency, they’ve mastered the ability to re-frame their failures and misery as something to be proud of. That is why to outsiders they often seem so "hardy" to masochistic levels.
It helps to rationalize their situation when the worst victims of their culture just die in mass. That allows them to re-frame them as heroes and be proud of them by proxy, without them to be there to object. The favorite Russian cope that “someone else will” goes both ways.

That is why they have this seemingly paradoxical amount apathy and patriotism.
That is why they always end up with authoritarianism and then totalitarianism.
That is why they fell for Communism.
That is why all roads in Russia lead to Kremlin.
That is why most of their land mass lives in 3rd world standards.
That is why their military doctrines have the highest casualty rates.
That is why their governments have collapsed 2 times within a century.
That is why their only allowed form of political activism in making crowd videos where they kiss ass by starting with “Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin...” and explain their local problem.

That is why they drink.

 

[Alexhypethrow19992]

All of you need to calm your tits, the idea this conflict is going to end up like Korea is unfortunate but it's significantly better than Ukraine turning into Belarus 2.0
The West screwing over eastern Europe isn't limited to Trump or Obama , it's systemic

 

[majob]

So far Trump's position is to praise Russia and make concessions without getting anything in return, while smearing Ukraine and Europe with lies and making demands without offering them anything in return.

This is in line with MAGA foreign policy more broadly: Attacks on allies, gifts for enemies.
The issue with Trump is that he doesn't understand foreign politics (as evidenced by his stance vs the EU, NATO, and Mexico) and doesn't really care about anything but himself (too much evidence to list), so he can't be expected to make decisions that align even with US interests. The cope that his incoherent reactivity and flip flopping (incidentally, the one thing he never flip flops on is his seething resentment for Ukraine and Europe more broadly) is part of some plan is based solely on cherry picking, as far as I can see.

If Putin offers a deal that screws over the US and EU but appeals to Trump's ego and imbecilic understanding of the world, I can easily see him picking that.

We'll have to see what happens.

Ukies would be stains on a wall if not for NATO backing, they were never going to win and their continued existence should be satisfactory alone. Europeans should have spent more time rearming than spending billions on rapefugees and then maybe Russian aggression wouldn't be a big issue for them. Calling Europe "allies" is a joke. Europeans spend more time insulting us and bragging about their cultural superiority until Hannibal is at the Gates and then they demand we help them. Nah, fuck them, fuck Ukraine, fuck Russia too. I can't wait to be done with another european parasite.

 

[Snekposter]

Russians are uniquely prideful of the hardship and poverty imposed on their country by this war. Resilience in face of misery is central to the "Russian soul" unlike in most other nations and the more young white men die, the more supportive an average Russian becomes of this war. They consider it as proof of their unique resilience in contrast to the decadent West and killing more young men is explicitly their objective. They have the same pride in the exorbitant number of casualties that Soviets suffered during World War 2.

Unironically reminds me of that prison break mission in CoD: Black Ops where you get out into the courtyard, start pushing that mine cart with Reznick, and half the guys are just running into the open to get gunned down by the MG's.

"Why are they doing this?"
"Russians are used to sacrifice!"

Attacks on allies

With allies like Europe and Mexico (you know, the nation that has a head of state controlled by the drug cartels), who needs enemies?

in the Pacific where they aren't easily pinned and isolated like in the Baltic or Black Sea region

You say that, but...

And naturally, everything that isn't on this map is too frozen-over to act as a naval base.

 

[Least Concern]

And naturally, everything that isn't on this map is too frozen-over to act as a naval base.

Maybe they could beg the Chinese to let them make use of a few piers at Port Arthur again.

After all, what can go wrong from allowing Russia to have one teeny tiny little naval base on your property?

 

[ostronaut]

Ukies would be stains on a wall if not for NATO backing, they were never going to win and their continued existence should be satisfactory alone. Europeans should have spent more time rearming than spending billions on rapefugees and then maybe Russian aggression wouldn't be a big issue for them. Calling Europe "allies" is a joke. Europeans spend more time insulting us and bragging about their cultural superiority until Hannibal is at the Gates and then they demand we help them. Nah, fuck them, fuck Ukraine, fuck Russia too. I can't wait to be done with another european parasite.

the mutt classic of "Europe" being one country Poland has been sucking your cock since the 90s (they even went to fucking Iraq) just to get labeled as a parasite when it becomes unconvenient, lol

 

[Seethan Ralph]

So, can anyone point to some summary or explain what the fuck did trump or putin say that made everyone's asses explode? Because I am totally out of the loop.

Did the orange jew sucked putin's cock? There will be half of ukraine annexed to russia with no NATO joining possible?

 

[teriyakiburns]

So, can anyone point to some summary or explain what the fuck did trump or putin say that made everyone's asses explode?

Trump did his usual thing of talking to an opponent and then saying "this is a very great person, we had lots of great conversation, I think we can make a deal". They're mad (or ecstatic in the case of the putin simps) that he spoke to Putin first and ignore that he also spoke to Zelensky immediately after, or that Z has (at least in public) responded favourably to the events so far.

There is a valid concern that Trump is going to force unreasonable concessions from Ukraine, but this is being blown up into "Trump is betraying Ukraine and going behind Zelensky's back!" by people on both sides, for their own reasons - again ignoring everything that contradicts the claims.

That's basically it. People are malding because Trump doesn't talk right and exaggerates things all the time. They're forgetting that this is the man who negotiated the Abraham accords - a deal everyone involved considered favourable - and was the first US leader to greet little Kim inside North Korea.

 

[MG-34]

So, can anyone point to some summary or explain what the fuck did trump or putin say that made everyone's asses explode? Because I am totally out of the loop.

Did the orange jew sucked putin's cock? There will be half of ukraine annexed to russia with no NATO joining possible?

Trump pretty much laid out a "peace offer" that is just a surrender in all but name with favorable conditions to Russia. Also he still wants the mineral rights for presumably the West flank of Ukraine which is pretty dumb.

 

[Snekposter]

Trump pretty much laid out a "peace offer" that is just a surrender in all but name with favorable conditions to Russia. Also he still wants the mineral rights for presumably the West flank of Ukraine which is pretty dumb.

Mineral rights that are currently inside Russian-held territory, which is strange since you'd think a guy who made his fortune in real estate knows where lines on a map are.