Greer v. Moon, No. 20-cv-00647 (D. Utah Sep. 16, 2020)

[Friend of Dorothy Parker]

And that's not a factor the rule even addresses. This isn't like Rule 11 sanctions that are nearly entirely discretionary. The only factor the rule cites is the amount the services reasonably connected to addressing the misconduct are, i.e. quantum meruit.

There's the "unjust" exception but the judge didn't even cite it. There's nothing even remotely resembling a lodestar, which is the way these are supposed to be calculated.

Here's a Nevada case knocking down 37b attorneys' fees - aside from reasonableness (mostly reasonable, some trimming for some lumped work, it seemed) and even where the sanctioned pro se litigant had not filed IFP and had a history of "active" litigation. Also warns litigant it's going to get worse for her if she persists:

Finally, in the interest of justice and taking into account the circumstances of this case, the Court will deny Defendant's requests for additional fees for research and briefing. Therefore, Defendant will be awarded a total sum of $2,577.30 for 16.5 hours of work at an hourly rate of $156.20. As previously noted, Plaintiff is on notice that she is not excused from complying with the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, Local Rules, and court orders. The Court cautions Plaintiff that future failure to follow the rules may result in more severe sanctions, including monetary and/or case dispositive sanctions.

No rationale for cutting research and briefing, just a category of time they decided to cut "in the interests of justice," etc. Didn't follow it out to see how it fared, etc.

But it's not the only case out there taking a similar tack. And it's a general principle that sanctions can escalate with repeating. So long as you don't exceed compensation, I don't think that warning puts you into punitive territory.

To people wondering why $1000 - to get Russell to stfu and remove as many hooks for him to hang a hat on as can be justified while still making a very sharp point about his discovery violations and general fuckery,

 

[Airstrip One]

Poll: How many times will Greer be sanctioned before this finally ends?

For an accurate figure you must cast your eyes heavenward on a clear night and count the multitude of stars that crowd the firmament.

 

[DavidS877]

Poll: How many times will Greer be sanctioned before this finally ends?

Einstein once allegedly said: Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe. I think we just found a third.

 

[Big moth tiddies]

I'm gonna pull a Babe Ruth and call my homerun.
Despite the lack of witnesses, despite the procedural fuckups, despite russhole's malicious behavior, I think the judge is going to do what the judge in Vicker's lolsuit did and let it go all the way to trial.
Only then, after letting Greer flail and fumble and cry about the evil fruit forum will he reluctantly dismiss the suit without prejudice, allowing Greer to have another chance.

I simply cannot see any other way this goes given how far the judge has his nose up Greer's ass.

God, folks need to stop whining about this. This is an excellent ruling. The order 99.9% bitch-slapped Russell. On every point, he lost.

Except in every way that matters. Russ doesn't care that the judge said he's wrong. He doesn't care because he thinks the judge is wrong. Russ will be mad he has to pay (as if he will) but he will simply see the reduction as a sign that he was right all along.

Russ is the epitome of pigeon chess, and that board is caked in his crap.

"The process is the punishment."

At the end of the case it could conceivably be appealed but would be subject to abuse of discretion review and that's a high bar to clear, with the court's discretion in sanctions matters being very broad.

As if that's stopped the courts from making retarded decisions in this case before.

Judges will give leeway unless you give them a reason to not give any.

You mean, not following proper procedures, lying to the court, filing excessive and pointless motions, delaying discovery process for an obscene amount of time, and defying court orders isn't enough? At this rate, Russhole is going to have to shit directly in the judge's daughter's vagina for him to do anything of real consequence.

 

[Prokhor Zakharov]

For an accurate figure you must cast your eyes heavenward on a clear night and count the multitude of stars that crowd the firmament.

and then look straight up into the judge's rectum. To assist in the viewing, ask the Judge to do a popper and pull a Goatse.

 

[Disgruntled Pupper]

It's been said many times before, but, this succinctly describes... "The process is the punishment"

So at what point does it tip from "the process" to a sign of how things will continue to go and maybe ultimately turn out? I feel like people are very fond of chanting this phrase in a cargo-cult like way, but I'm pretty sure you can go beyond the standard "this sucks and the judge is just trying various bluffs, punishments, and bullshittery to make both sides end this in the quickest way possible" to "oh shit only my side getting hammered". At what point should the innate human ability to read the room kick in for you guys?

 

[Cougar Pump]

So at what point does it tip from "the process" to a sign of how things will continue to go and maybe ultimately turn out? I feel like people are very fond of chanting this phrase in a cargo-cult like way, but I'm pretty sure you can go beyond the standard "this sucks and the judge is just trying various bluffs, punishments, and bullshittery to make both sides end this in the quickest way possible" to "oh shit only my side getting hammered". At what point should the innate human ability to read the room kick in for you guys?

You really can't divine the outcome of a case as the case is progressing - If you read a lot of disparate judgements and other court filings and follow specific cases through their lifetimes, the pattern that you will find is that there is no pattern - About half the time things march along in a predictable fashion and reach a predictable conclusion. For the other half many judges seem to take great joy in specifically writing judgements such that they reach a twist conclusion in the actual judgement.
All of this is fairly consistent with the notion of the judiciary being a disinterested party. It might even be reasonable to conclude that judges do this specifically to put forth the appearance of disinterest.

 

[Disgruntled Pupper]

About half the time things march along in a predictable fashion and reach a predictable conclusion. For the other half many judges seem to take great joy in specifically writing judgements such that they reach a twist conclusion in the actual judgement.

It surprises me that it's such a perfectly even split. The court system, although it tries to divest itself from bias, prejudices, and interest, is still ultimately a human institution. Whatever you guys are doing, share your secrets with the rest of the sciences (after Trump deports the Chinese and Indian data fakers), we need it.

 

[Not a bee]

Yeah I'll be honest it is hard to remain optimistic but I will keep trying!
One thing is for certain - Russ always fucks up, and that is something that all of us including the lovely Greer who is reading this, can be assured of. Even tard-guarding has its limits. Can't stop a tard from shooting itself in the foot, even though the Judge replaced the gun with a water gun somehow the tard has a massive bullet hole in his foot anyway.

 

[Greasy Goblin]

So at what point does it tip from "the process" to a sign of how things will continue to go and maybe ultimately turn out? I feel like people are very fond of chanting this phrase in a cargo-cult like way, but I'm pretty sure you can go beyond the standard "this sucks and the judge is just trying various bluffs, punishments, and bullshittery to make both sides end this in the quickest way possible" to "oh shit only my side getting hammered". At what point should the innate human ability to read the room kick in for you guys?

For me, that point doesn't exist, and the moment I'll cease assuming the court has it out for null/the farms is when the case is over and the net cost to null is minimal. Not a moment sooner. Malice is a much easier and more reasonable pill to swallow than to think that this baseless case has been dragged out for 4 years and counting purely via random flukes and the stupidity of everyone involved. Especially after the 10th circuit's ruling. I'm a spectator, not held to the same standard, I'm perfectly content believing the court guilty until proven innocent (though I'd love to be proven wrong and think Greer has already begun his death spiral).

 

[Teshub]

We know he's a bad faith retard, but the Judge doesn't. This isn't even the original Judge from when the case started. As far as he knows, he's just a pro-se retard.

Hell, even Stabbin's latest judge was willing to give him leeway despite Hardin informing him of his long litigious history until Stabbins started harassing his clerks. Judges will give leeway unless you give them a reason to not give any.

We know he's acting in bad faith, and from Hardin's filings and complaints, as wells as greers bullshit, it should be obvious to the Judge as well. Their supposed to be presiding, ie. informed, about this case. Instead they act with no care in the world about the real harm or consequences to the parties involved. (I'm removing the rant about theses judicial fuck heads I wrote because it got a little fed posty)


I read the stebbins bullishit. The judge was willing to let all of his misdeeds slide until it personally affected people he knew. What a worthless judge, he was told and given fair warning about stabby, he chose to ignore it.

Personally I think these worthless shits, the judges, are using pro se or ifp and using it somehow under a legal theory like Chevron Deference. Defer to the tard and throw all real legal reasoning out the window.

 

[Prokhor Zakharov]

has been dragged out for 4 years and counting purely via random flukes

I have to tell you, statistically speaking, that is literally almost impossible.

 

[ScooterL]

Russ is Lawful Evil, if a judgement comes down he'll feel somehow bound to follow it.

He tried to evade paying Skordas for costs after his Ariana Grande loss.

 

[LiquidChrisRespecter]

reluctantly dismiss the suit without prejudice

I would say the statute of limitations will have expired by the time Russ tries to resurrect this wetbrained claim, but stupider things have happened.

Although it would be nice to hold what he said about Guinasso against him in Jane Doe v Lombardo et al 3:24-cv-00065-MMD-CSD if that were to happen.

As other defendants have pointed out, this is the third, duplicate case commenced by lawyer Jason Guinasso.

Mr. Guinasso’s actions have been characterized as “creepy” and “obsessive”.

Proposed intervenor felt that since the Honorable Judge Miranda Du dismissed Case #1, that she would not entertain any of Guinasso’s claims and dismiss the case.

None of the Defendants gave a clear background on Mr. Guinasso, only touching on the two prior cases and thus intervenor requests intervention to shed light into the lead lawyer’s history of violence and domestic abuse

County Defendants suggested that Guinasso be merely fined or sanctioned for his repeated duplicate lawsuits.

This case has essentially already been hashed out in 2019, in this very court, in front of Judge Du

the complaint is still fatally flawed because the Jane Doe can’t list any specific dates. Her allegations are generalized

The biggest shocker is this Jane Doe wants to destroy a legal industry — over hurt feelings.

Ironically as he inserted himself as a defendant in a case that had fuck all to do with him and already had whoremongers' interests represented, he filed this on the same day bemoaning frivolous timewasters.

 

[Man In A Dress]

It was my understanding that the point of the sanction was to correct an offense and make the affected party (Hardin) 'whole' again.
Right now it looks like Hardin is down 5000 dollars for going above and beyond by seeking out Greers witnesses just to make the case progress, even just a little bit. Not like the Judge feels like compelling Greer to get off his recalcitrant ass and do something.
Even if Greer paid, Hardin is the one that suffers. So who is really punished at the end of the day?

 

[Lapsus of the bepsus]

So who is really punished at the end of the day?

null, aka the designated court nigger

 

[Pedophobe]

Right now it looks like Hardin is down 5000 dollars for going above and beyond by seeking out Greers witnesses just to make the case progress, even just a little bit.

Pretty sure Hardin is getting paid regardless and Lolcow LLC is footing the bill for Greer's shenanigans.

 

[teriyakiburns]

Right now it looks like Hardin is down 5000 dollars

No, that's null. Hardin has been paid for his time. A fee sanction is to take the burden off the defendant.

 

[LiquidChrisRespecter]

Hardin has explicitly said that he hasn't billed for much of the goofing around trying to depose witnesses because he was unable to actually complete any work on Null's behalf.

Both Null and Hardin are massively out of pocket.

 

[YouTube Autist]

@Useful_Mistake, what do you think are the chances that the judge currently overseeing the case will be changed before the case concludes? It seems to me that, if a different judge were at work, the trajectory of the case might shift instantly. Do you agree with that?

I expect him to at some point cite Hammurabi's code of law.

"Whoever sucks him a penis, let him his penis be sucked."

What can I say, I'm pretending to be a lawyer.

You're 7.