UK The question no one dares ask: what if Britain has to defend itself from the US? - By George Monbiot - AgitatedGerbil is this you?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/feb/27/britain-defend-itself-us-military

https://archive.ph/RDOJR

The question no one dares ask: what if Britain has to defend itself from the US?
George Monbiot

So much of our intelligence and military systems are shared or reliant on the US – if it becomes the enemy, it is already inside the gates
Thu 27 Feb 2025 09.00 CET

All the talk now is of how we might defend ourselves without the US. But almost everyone with a voice in public life appears to be avoiding a much bigger and more troubling question: how we might defend ourselves against the US.

As Keir Starmer visits the orange emperor’s court in Washington, let’s first consider the possibilities. I can’t comment on their likelihood, and I fervently hope that people with more knowledge and power than me are gaming them. One is that Donald Trump will not only clear the path for Vladimir Putin in Ukraine, but will actively assist him. We know that Trump can brook no challenge to his hegemony. Russia is no threat to US dominance, but Europe, with a combined economy similar to that of the US, and a powerful diplomatic and global political presence, could be.

Putin has long sought to break up the EU, using the European far right as his proxies: this is why he invested so heavily in Brexit. Now Trump, in turn, could use Putin as his proxy, to attack a rival centre of power. If Trump helps Russia sweep through Ukraine, Putin could then issue an ultimatum to other frontline and eastern European states: leave the EU, leave Nato and become a client state like Belarus, or you’re next.

In Hungary, Viktor Orbán might agree to this. If Călin Georgescu wins in Romania in May, he might too.
What form could US support for Putin in Ukraine take? It could involve intelligence sharing. It could involve permanently withdrawing Elon Musk’s Starlink satellite internet service from Ukraine, which is strategically crucial there, while making it available to the Russian armed forces. Already, the US government has threatened to nix the service if Ukraine doesn’t hand over its minerals, as reparations for being invaded. This is how Trump operates: blackmailing desperate people who are seeking to defend themselves against an imperial war, regardless of past alliances. In the extreme case, Trump’s support for Russia might involve military equipment and financial backing, or even joint US-Russian operations, in the Arctic or elsewhere.

Now consider our vulnerabilities. Through the “Five Eyes” partnership, the UK automatically shares signals intelligence, human intelligence and defence intelligence with the US government. Edward Snowden’s revelations showed that the US, with the agreement of our government, conducts wholesale espionage on innocent UK citizens. The two governments, with other western nations, run a wide range of joint intelligence programmes, such as Prism, Echelon, Tempora and XKeyscore. The US National Security Agency (NSA) uses the UK agency GCHQ as a subcontractor.
All this is now overseen by Tulsi Gabbard, Trump’s director of national intelligence, in charge of the CIA, NSA and 16 other agencies. After she recited conspiracy fictions seeded by the Syrian and Russian governments, she was widely accused of being a “Russian asset” or a “Russian puppet”. At what point do we conclude that by sharing intelligence with the US, the UK might as well be sharing it with Russia?

Depending on whose definitions you accept, the US has either 11 or 13 military bases and listening stations in the UK. They include the misnamed RAF Lakenheath in Suffolk, actually a US air force base, from which it deploys F-35 jets; RAF Menwith Hill in North Yorkshire, in reality a US NSA base conducting military espionage and operational support; RAF Croughton, part-operated by the CIA, which allegedly used the base to spy on Angela Merkel among many others; and RAF Fylingdales, part of the US Space Surveillance Network. If the US now sides with Russia against the UK and Europe, these could just as well be Russian bases and listening stations.
Then we come to our weapon systems. Like everyone without security clearance, I can make no well-informed statement on the extent to which any of them, nuclear or conventional, are operationally independent of the US. But I know, to give just one example, that among the crucial components of our defence are F-35 stealth jets, designed and patented in the US. How stealthy they will turn out to be, when the US has the specs, the serial numbers and the software, is a question that needs an urgent answer.

Nor can I make any confident statement about the extent to which weapons designed here might be dependent on US central processing units and other digital technologies, or on US systems such as Starlink, owned by Musk, or GPS, owned by the US Space Force. Which of our weapons systems could achieve battle-readiness without US involvement and consent? Which could be remotely disabled by the US military? At the very least, the US will know better than any other power how to combat them, because our weapons are more or less the same as theirs. In other words, if the US is now our enemy, the enemy is inside the gate.

Much as I hate to admit it, the UK needs to rearm (though cutting the aid budget to find the money, as Keir Starmer intends, is astonishingly shortsighted). I reluctantly came to this conclusion as Trump’s numbers began to stack up last July. But, if they are fatally compromised by US penetration, rearmament might have to begin with the complete abandonment of our existing weapons and communications systems.

This may need to start very soon. On 24 February, the UN general assembly voted on a Ukrainian resolution, co-sponsored by the UK and other European nations, condemning Russia’s invasion. Unsurprisingly, Russia, Belarus, North Korea, Hungary and several small and easily cowed states voted against it. But so did the US and Israel. This, more clearly than any other shift, exposes the new alignment. An axis of autocracy, facilitating an imperial war of aggression, confronts nations committed (albeit to varying degrees) to democracy and international law.
For many years, we have been urged to trust the UK’s oppressive “security state”. Yes, this security state is yanked around like a fish on a line by the US government, with such catastrophic outcomes as the US-UK invasion of Iraq. Yes, it is engaged in mass surveillance of its own citizens. But, its defenders have long argued, we should suck all this up because the security state is essential to our defence from hostile foreign actors. In reality, our entanglement, as many of us have long warned, presents a major threat to national security. By tying our defence so closely to the US, our governments have created an insecurity state.

I hope you can now see what a terrible mistake the UK has made, and how we should have followed France in creating more independent military and security systems. Disentangling from the US will be difficult and expensive. Failing to do so could carry a far higher price.

George Monbiot is a Guardian columnist faggot
 
Too late Britbongs. You had your chance to be under the control of cool fascist regime and you said no thanks and went to war with them along the US and the Soviets. How did liberating Poland work out? Oh wait you didn't.

This is some retarded shit. The US wouldn't start a war with the UK.
 
The question no one dares ask: what if kids ruled the planet?
One channel dared to ask.

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If we get another few series of, ‘Dad’s Army’ I’m ok with it.
Don’t tell him, pike!
The home guard of the 40's would make mincemeat out of the regular troops of today.

The competency crisis spared no one, and not a single one probably has the independent thinking power to convert found objects around the house into ad-hoc IED's , even the concept of welding a spike to the hood of their car and driving it at someone is too complex an idea to process. Let alone the fact they they couldn't even identify and arc welder, let alone use one.
 
The question no one dares ask: what if our knees bend inward? What would our chairs look like?

The question no one dares ask: what if cows ate humans?

The question no one dares ask: what if gravity reversed?

The question no one dares ask: what if kids ruled the planet?
I've got to say that it's the duty of anyone involved in serious military planning to consider wildly implausible scenarios, if only because parts of those plans can be used for other purposes.
I'm confident someone in the Pentagon is saying, "What if we need to invade Canada?"
Supposedly, the US responded to the high water mark of Quebecois seperatists by redeploying the 10th Mountain Division within the United States.
 
I'm confident someone in the Pentagon is saying, "What if we need to invade Canada?"
Almost certainly. After WW1 the U.S. had war plan red. (gas them all and let god sort them out) Canada had defense scheme no.1. (flail around like a sped and hope daddy can save them) And the U.K. (no name, the plan was basically the same one japan tried just in the Atlantic. lol).

I'd bet good money those were not the final plans along those lines. More modern versions were or are probably pretty regular with the board becoming more and more tilted in favor of the U.S. over time.
 
One New Jersey is enough thanks.

nah, i think a few more Iowas would be kind of nice. i think we could get trump to agree to it if we simply named the ship after him, he seems to sort to go for that.

We're reaching levels of delusion here that shouldn't be possible even with perfect laboratory conditions.



It's equal parts hilarious and distressing that they think they can just flip a switch and be back to a 80's standard of defense overnight.

Unwilling or unable to see that 40 years of dismantling their industry and demoralizing their citizens means it'll take just as long to bring it all back.


If not longer, because they also have millions of freeloaders to clear out on top of the same damage from globalization and right-side-of-history thinking that has visited every Western Nation since the 90's and hollowed out their middle classes and manufacturing base.

not only do most of these european nations not have the industrial and manufacturing needed in order to ramp up their military, but they also dont really have the ability to get the needed personal for their army. most natives seem to not really care about their countries and be demoralized (this is understandable). the only other option would be to recruit the third world niggers. they wouldnt do it out of any sort of love for the host country, but if it paid better than gibs and they got citizenship they might do it. a mercenary army of third world niggers acting as cannon fodder is an option.

but i can see two big problems with third world niggers:
  1. they wouldn't have any dedication or love for the country and so wouldn't be expected to really hold down the front line or be especially daring or brave. as soon as it got pretty dangerous they would run, surrender, or hunker down and not fight.
  2. modern militaries require plenty of jobs with specialized knowledge and skill sets. while the left loves to claim the third world niggers are all super geniuses and all doctors and engineers, the fact is all but a handful of them arnt really cut out for more than being a grunt. you cant expect them to be signal corp,electronic warfare specialist, nuclear engineers for your nuclear subs,etc. where are you going to get the manpower for those roles?

The British Army currently has more horses than it does Main Battle Tanks (Around 240 tanks to about 500 horses)
currently has more admirals than warships.

i see someone else is a fan of mark felton.

also, 240 tanks seems to be about what is lost in teh ukraine war every few months.

This would make the seven hour war from Half Life lore sound like a multi-year long accord.

The UK would lose handily if there ever was a hot war between them and the US

with the modern state of the UK army, they would lose to any non third world country. and even with third world countries, if they did it all on their own, they would struggle against any but the most pathetic and small third world country.
 
lmao why the fuck would the US invade the UK? the US has not added any new territory in over 100 years. what's the point? we already effectively own the UK economically, politically, and militarily. there is no reasonable demand we could make of them that they would not concede. this is just some fucking retard who's got himself talked into a frenzy because Donald Trump something something threat to democracy. take your fuckin pills man.
 
The only faint hope the UK has of retaining any influence on the world stage is to stick as close to the US as a familiar does to a vampire, and hope for the best.

We maintain a nuclear deterrent we can't launch without American signoff. If that does not tell you everything you need to know about the 'special relationship', I don't know what would.

The UK is in the American sphere of influence in the same way Belarus is within the Russian sphere. They are our hegemonic overlords, and we will do substantially as they require.

Anyone who doubts this should closely observe world events for the next five to ten years. We are going to do whatever the Americans require of us at any given time regardless of what it is.

See also: Iraq, WMDs, 2003.
 
lmao why the fuck would the US invade the UK? the US has not added any new territory in over 100 years. what's the point? we already effectively own the UK economically, politically, and militarily. there is no reasonable demand we could make of them that they would not concede. this is just some fucking retard who's got himself talked into a frenzy because Donald Trump something something threat to democracy. take your fuckin pills man.
Exactly this. Why would the US invade something they already own in all but name? This is the real soft power at work, not faggy "hearts and mind" shit.
 
The UK is in the American sphere of influence in the same way Belarus is within the Russian sphere. They are our hegemonic overlords, and we will do substantially as they require.
If the UK government asked the US to close our bases, sever ties, and leave, we would doubtlessly do so, which isn't overlordly behavior and certainly not comparable to Russia's relationship with Belarus. Further, given how authoritarian and oppressive the countries of Western Europe have become, you can't call it the Free World anymore and I can't see spending American blood and treasure to defend it.
 
If the UK government asked the US to close our bases, sever ties, and leave, we would doubtlessly do so
Yes, the US would be absolutely fine if we left NATO and signed a sweetheart security cooperation deal with China tomorrow and handed them over our nukes and a nice big chunk of the Atlantic and the entirety of Milton Keynes to concrete over into a massive airbase. Yes. That would absolutely be no fucking problem and the US state would do absolutely nothing to get in the way of that.

I know a lot of you are young but you have to start seeing things as they are, not as you think they 'should' be according to internet manifestos from youtubers. A client state on the shoulder of Europe is a significant global power asset to the US. That is why MI5 spent pretty much all of the 1950s through 1980s infiltrating and surveilling the fucking Labour party, of all the seditious organisations, to make sure they weren't getting too Soviet or any of that.

Government is the art of the possible. Whatever 'ideals' or 'theories' any government fever dreams in the years before it is elected, it swallows a large burning dose of reality shortly after. The US knows how best to keep the UK comfortably under the thumb and the UK knows exactly how much backchat the Americans will tolerate. Until the UK is physically situated somewhere else on the globe, things will remain exactly as they have been for nigh on a century.
 
I mean, hell, in 1936 the United States started work on a heavy bomber to attack targets in Europe.

Yes, the B-36 Peacemaker was originally designed to fight Germany without British air bases.
Started in 41' , actually. Alongside the almost-forgotten B-32 Dominator that had such a protracted development? It missed the war completely and most of the constructed planes made just one peacetime flight from factory to scrapyard.

The "36" in the designation for the Peacemaker just denotes it's the next developed bomber airframe after the B-35 and before the B-37.

And not all numbers become in-service aircraft as some just peter out in testing as either experimental "X" planes (The XB-19 was an aborted attempt to super-size the basic B-17 and only ever had one example built ) or unpursued design studies or mockups that never even get a flying prototype (The B-55 was a turboprop-powered B-52 that was left dead on the drawing boards when it became clear prop-powered bombers were obsolete). Doesn't help that the Air Force has reset the counter like three times, either. Hence why our current bomber fleet has a B-1 and B-2 in it....


Yes, the US would be absolutely fine if we left NATO and signed a sweetheart security cooperation deal with China tomorrow and handed them over our nukes and a nice big chunk of the Atlantic and the entirety of Milton Keynes to concrete over into a massive airbase. Yes. That would absolutely be no fucking problem and the US state would do absolutely nothing to get in the way of that.

I know a lot of you are young but you have to start seeing things as they are, not as you think they 'should' be according to internet manifestos from youtubers. A client state on the shoulder of Europe is a significant global power asset to the US. That is why MI5 spent pretty much all of the 1950s through 1980s infiltrating and surveilling the fucking Labour party, of all the seditious organisations, to make sure they weren't getting too Soviet or any of that.

Government is the art of the possible. Whatever 'ideals' or 'theories' any government fever dreams in the years before it is elected, it swallows a large burning dose of reality shortly after. The US knows how best to keep the UK comfortably under the thumb and the UK knows exactly how much backchat the Americans will tolerate. Until the UK is physically situated somewhere else on the globe, things will remain exactly as they have been for nigh on a century.
We'd just relocate to Greenland anyway..... technically obliging the demands while maintaining a strategic outpost that's only a few hours from Europe if trouble arises. And Denmark could either accept a "long term lease" for the privilege or lose it completely, they're in no position to resist us taking it.
 
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This is just so fucking ridiculous. We already have bases there, had them over 80 years. Also agree many UK people would support us, since under US occupation they would likely have more rights than they presently have as British subjects. If we then made the UK a US state they would have full Constitutional rights, such as the right to keep and bear arms, freedom of speech, etc.
 
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