Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[TexWiller]

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Europe holds the entire semiconductor industry by the balls.

well not really. 1st that is a dutch company only nominally, like most companies on international markets. is the americans who tell them who they can sell to, or which machine to disable.
but as in the case of other tech embargos, that works only as incentive for others to find alternatives. like for the thermal sensors that were embargoed at the beginning of the SMO. i still remember the har har har the ruzzians will be blind at night. well guess what. the chinese started making serious thermal sensors and they are way cheaper. the rest they found in dishwashers.

Z says publicly "the end of the war is very very far away" ?
Is he fucking retarded? Does he not understand that is he keeps saying shit like this that a peace negotiation becomes impossible?

the goblin doesnt want peace negotiations and said so multiple times. he wants a "just peace", meaning the world assembling behind him to defeat the evil russians.

Go ahead, fulfill your dream and nuke Europe since it's all useless. Just don't be surprised when five or ten years down the line, even with your Intel fabs, you'll have to regress decades in semiconductor development because the sole company that allowed for UEV litography is gone, and their machines are impossible to reverse engineer, so once they break, they all break for good. Do keep thinking that TSMC is your only worry in terms of semiconductor independency though, ignorance truly is bliss.

And if you're thinking about military takeover, yeah tough luck with that, I'm sure you'll leave all the critical infrastructure and documentation unscathed with such a power move, especially the high precision fabs.

The really advanced chips made with the latest ASML machines are nice to have, but not indispensable. the chinese have started making their own CPUs, they dont have the latest nanometer tech but really, who cares except the fools who queue a week outside an apple shop to have the latest iphone?

war industry never uses these latest whizbang cutting edge techs anyway.

Meh… Yea and no.

Despite technically being Dutch, ASML isn’t really a European company. Their supply chain is spread out throughout the world, and back in the 90ies when the company as we know it was created, they deliberately put a big part of their assets in the US.

yep exactly

Additionally, most micro controllers are >32 nm and that's what's relevant for all the smart-toys you bomb people with.

exactly.
there are always exceptions, una rondine non fa primavera, but overall, europe doest have a tech sector and will never have one as long as the EUrocrats keep churning out red tape, restrictions, and ordering manufacturers to build back doors in their products.
in fact, tech companies are caught between the hammer (and sicke) of EU rules, and the US state dept and DOJ blackmail. so why bother with EU at all, when energy costs 4x and environment is generally hostile to businesses.

 

[The man The only man]

EU and UK are incapable of manufacturing anything meaningful

The EU is fucked without massive chance of domestic policy (good luck lmao). Most of the EU cannot increase industrial production because European energy grids are overburdened and slow to upgrading. We have companies not being able to invest into new buildings or new machinary because the local energy grid would be too overburdened and thus they have to wait 3-6 years for more energy. For example, one town's entire energy grid could instantly be overburdened by 1 electric truck.

Also in other news, Von der Leyen wants to increase defense spending even if it causes massive amounts of debts, meaning that Trump got what he wanted.
tl;dr in total 800 billion more in defense spending (EU wide), countries allowed to have bigger budget deficits without penalty and Von der Leyen (unelected) consulted nobody about it except her inner clique of unelected bureaucrats. Also lmao: "that the loans will be covered by the EU budget, but exactly how that will work remains unclear." Money printer go brrrrrrr. (First translated article from Dutch to English, so sorry if I am sloppy).

"Von der Leyen comes with a astronomical amounts for European defense: ‘Rearm Europe’" (article & archive)

Brussels – EU chief Ursula von der Leyen wants to mobilize hundreds of billions for defense investments. She calls her plan ‘Rearm Europe.’

The President of the European Commission proposes making an exception in the European budget rules for defense expenditures. Member states would then not be penalized if their budget deficit and national debt rise too much. “If member states were to increase their defense spending by an average of 1.5% of GDP, this would create nearly 650 billion euros over a period of four years,” said Von der Leyen.

Additionally, Brussels wants to make 150 billion euros in loans available for joint investments in, among other things, air defense, ammunition, drones, and cybersecurity. Furthermore, she wants to make it possible in the short term for the existing cohesion fund, a multi-billion pot for strengthening poorer regions, to be used for defense-related expenditures.

Von der Leyen is also focusing on stimulating more private money for defense and a greater role for the European Investment Bank. “All together, we arrive at a total of 800 billion euros,” said Von der Leyen on Tuesday morning during a press moment. “Europe is ready to take its responsibility. We will continue to work closely with our partners in NATO. This is Europe’s moment. And we are ready to take a step further.”

Her plan raises many questions about the details, but the unelected top bureaucrat did not want to answer any questions from the press. In a letter to heads of state and government leaders, the Commission President writes that the loans will be covered by the EU budget, but exactly how that will work remains unclear.

EU Summit
Von der Leyen is launching her ideas in the run-up to an extra EU summit this coming Thursday. It is likely too short notice for heads of state and government leaders to make decisions already. However, on March 20 and 21, there will be another EU summit, where decisions could potentially be made.

Behind the scenes, it is said that Von der Leyen and her team worked on defense plans on their own, without involving the new European Commissioner for Defense. She also did not include all member states in her thinking process.

It is certain that a heated political discussion will follow. Some EU countries, for example, do not want an exception to the budget rules for frugal member states that still do not meet NATO’s 2 percent standard.

 

[TexWiller]

Von der Leyen wants to increase defense spending even if it causes massive amounts of debts

this is yet another massive power grab from the mad harpy, as defence and foreign policy are NOT in the commission powers.

but of course the eurocucks will gladly comply as it is consistent with their mad plans of destruction of the continent.

at any rate, as usual, europoors are slow, in the 4th year of the SMO they still havent done jack regarding national defences, beyond empty declarations and chest beating. if anything, they have massively weakened their defence by sending to the ukrainian scrapyard scarce resources.

not sure where von der lyin' will get the money, or where european nations will, they all have big sovereign debt and liabilities. i suspect eventually the money will be swallowed by france and germany to somehow boost their industries.whch is a stupid plan because defence is a cost, not an investment.

 

[Slav Power]

EU and UK are incapable of manufacturing anything meaningful, so grifting paper tigers and overreliance on US funding is the best you'll get. This also stems into the fact that most Europeans want our populace and tax money to carry Ukraine's burdens instead of their own country's, even among those that believe they aren't "getting enough western support" (See: DK, 66% surveyed not enough, only 17% believe that their country should increase its own support despite that)

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Late is better than never with us being burdened by unjust causes that will never benefit us in the long term, and hopefully the Trump admin also walks the walk and fully pulls out of NATO as well to leave Europe "For the Europeans."

Odd that I don't see Poland as the chart toppers, you'd think with how much everyone yaps how Ukrainians are "our brothers" and how much we despise Russia we'd be the most willing to help, but no, it's all countries that are separated from Russia, Belarus and Ukraine by at least one other European country. Funny that.

but not indispensable

If you're planning on building weapons or basic governmental computers, sure. But if you want to win the current arms race that is AI, then EUV litography is indispensable. And since a lot of investments in that come from the US, it's foolish to think it's not a trump card of any sorts. It absolutely is, because the US won't let Europe get decimated and have a years long setback in EUV litography just to let Europe burn, they'll make sure to keep Europe at peace to avoid that with all the power they still have over the continent, which is a lot.

Still, the idea that all of Europe will be thrown into a direct war with Russia, where Europe will be decimated and somehow the US is magically no longer the part of the equation because of the stop of the Ukraine aid and the still theorized NATO withdrawal is baffling. If that were the case, this war would've already moved over to all of Europe, but it's not that simple. Ukraine had pretty much zero US investments for Russia to care not to fuck with, and had no diplomatic connections like NATO or EU to worry about.

The rest of Europe on the other hand? Poland has investments from the US, US military is stationed in Poland, Poland is in NATO as well as the EU, and invading that would cause more issues than invading Ukraine, hence why Ukies got the short hand of the stick this time and not us, we've got too much involvement with America for it to be worth the hassle. If Putin gave zero fucks about all the intricacies of geopolitics, things wouldn't be looking the way they are now.

Also, this scenario implies Putin would care about taking over the rest of Europe and not just Ukraine, which clearly isn't the case. Otherwise, why would he focus only on subverting the government of this one post-Soviet republic for years and not bothering to do the same tricks with, for example the Baltic states, or Poland that was a satellite state? He only cares about Ukraine, most likely due to natural resources, industry and their farm fields that used to be a major powerhouse back when they were a part of the USSR.

Putin would only bother fighting all of Europe if Europe threw the stone first. But you have to decide, Europe is either a bunch of idiots that will willingly enter this war full speed ahead three years after they had all the chances to do so, or they're all chickenshits that only virtue signal they support Ukraine and their fight, while in reality they just hope they bleed Russia out and not Europe, as Europe takes the defense from the potential invasion from Russia, which, again, nothing shows that that's Putin's ultimate goal, he only cares about Ukraine.

 

[Useful_Mistake]

https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/brussels-playbook/europe-seeks-reset-after-trump-zelenskyy-blowup/

https://archive.ph/W0x2W

https://www.politico.eu/article/viktor-orban-robert-fico-derail-europe-unity-ukraine-london-summit/

https://archive.md/5R2hI

 

[TexWiller]

If you're planning on building weapons or basic governmental computers, sure. But if you want to win the current arms race that is AI, then EUV litography is indispensable.

no. and proof is that the evil, stoopid, EUVless russians are winning the arms race and by a lot. the western superexpensive supersophisticated wunderwaffen are not made to win wars, but to milk taxpayers of as much $$ as possible.

for a missile system, being able to use a few less milliamps or a few less grams of weight is irrelevant and the same stuff can be done with electronics 2 or 3 or 4 generations older.
besides, all the x nm tech race is mostly marketing, real processors get nowhere near that, and anyway in applications where you need fast processing you are surely not using processors.


le labo le michel on YT is taking apart and reverse engineering a Tornado-S missile, which is relatively recent. have a look. i bet nothing of that is anywhere near 64 nm tech.

 

[Male Idiot]

Eu leaders are pantshitting retards who think the other guy (tm) can foot the butcher's bill. It is like a circular passing of the bag.
They are all chickenshits who want the other retards to fight.
Only Turkey had bigger than HALF the UA, and the third, France barely even have half of Turkey's ROACHCHVD strength. Shit on the hohols as much as we want their army had a digit more to it than any others bar the obvious ruskie on the map.

The small time players club goes with Italy and Greece being a bit behind Honhons, Finland, Uk, Germoney lagging behind. Portugal and Switzerland for its size stands out pretty well.

I would award the Medal of Shame to Sweden, for being that large and rich, their troops number is absolutely pathetic. SWEDEN YES!

Some unrelated autism: National guard partnerships.
UA is California, of course. Czech got lucky with Texas. Hungary/Serbia is with Ohio and it is all skibidi and stronk, Skbd Srb. Alabama+Romania lol. Georgia+Georgia is an obvious combo.
.

 

[Radola Gajda]

Ursula von der Leyen already fucked up Bundeswehr there is no way she manages to create EU army lmao.

https://www.europeanfinancialreview.com/this-is-not-the-first-time-ursula-von-der-leyen-has-made-a-complete-mess-of-things/

Putting pregnant women in uniform.
Electric tanks, because of green lunacy.
And overall decay of German army is her legacy as German minister of defence.

 

[Meh123]

At least SOMEONE knows how to say THANK YOU

If that dark SoB gets fucked by Trump somehow on the gaza/iran axle, I'll raise a statue for orange man.
Not much tho, the US middle east foreign policy is dictated by the Camarilla lobby since forever now.

Subbed and dubbed in English.

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https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/hungary-blocks-eu-plan-for-security-guarantees-1741001350.html

Oof.

Hungary and Slovakia taking turns playing the bad guys. How classic, reminds me of medieval times when Hungary, Poland and Slovakia were keeping out the Ottomans and Tatars.

thank fucking lord the aid is stopped. it never should have been given in the first place. let their own continent deal with it, fucking smug euro faggots.

Ah yes. "Let me stir up shit in your neighborhood, then when it hits the fan blame you and wash my hands while being smug about it".
Your average ameriturd faggot.

Eu blocked funds for the green and climate-change destroying development of Hungary's new (Russian) nuclear reactor program a day or two ago

Time to approach BRICS, maybe ask the chinks to build a few thorium powerplants.

The really advanced chips made with the latest ASML machines are nice to have, but not indispensable. the chinese have started making their own CPUs, they dont have the latest nanometer tech but really, who cares except the fools who queue a week outside an apple shop to have the latest iphone?

war industry never uses these latest whizbang cutting edge techs anyway.

Destroying/limiting ASML and co would be a setback, but at the same time it would promote multiple countries to develop their own fab tech independently, and competition is always good.

Edit:

Electric tanks, because of green lunacy.

Retarded as it sounds, using electric motors in tanks would offer a number of advantages compared to current tech.
1. higher power, even at low RPMs
2. lower weight, more compact motors
3. more silent running, lower heat signature
4. no idling, instantly ready to move
5. MUCH simpler power transmission -> less maintenance and point of failure

The main (huge) problem with EVs is still the battery.
I'd like to see a diesel-electric PoC tank, out of curiosity tho.

 

[IKOL]

Some unrelated autism: National guard partnerships.

You know the drill

 

[VargReallyDidNothingWrong]

Retarded as it sounds, using electric motors in tanks would offer a number of advantages compared to current tech.

Porsche tried it back in WW2 with their prototype for the Tiger program.

 

[Useful_Mistake]

https://archive.md/Pzxl2

 

[Kier Starmer]

"Opportunity to leave after a year"

So the average fatality rate is suggested at 2,000 which means a negative of 4000. These troops are absolutely cannon fodder because their warning systems are practically gone with Starlink cut. I say Starlink is gone because the version provided was a military version which would be a military asset.

The intel about a group of 500,000 Russian troops incoming looks to be true with equipment. Ukraine is not posting its honest numbers to its allies. Z says there are nearly 1,000,000 but I just don't believe this figure.

 

[Bunkerhousing]

https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/brussels-playbook/europe-seeks-reset-after-trump-zelenskyy-blowup/

https://archive.ph/W0x2W

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https://www.politico.eu/article/viktor-orban-robert-fico-derail-europe-unity-ukraine-london-summit/

https://archive.md/5R2hI

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I have never understood the issue with "depending" on gas from Russia.

Why not buy from the cheapest? And if not the cheapest, buy from the chepest.

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Eu leaders are pantshitting retards who think the other guy (tm) can foot the butcher's bill. It is like a circular passing of the bag.
They are all chickenshits who want the other retards to fight.
Only Turkey had bigger than HALF the UA, and the third, France barely even have half of Turkey's ROACHCHVD strength. Shit on the hohols as much as we want their army had a digit more to it than any others bar the obvious ruskie on the map.

The small time players club goes with Italy and Greece being a bit behind Honhons, Finland, Uk, Germoney lagging behind. Portugal and Switzerland for its size stands out pretty well.

I would award the Medal of Shame to Sweden, for being that large and rich, their troops number is absolutely pathetic. SWEDEN YES!

Some unrelated autism: National guard partnerships.
UA is California, of course. Czech got lucky with Texas. Hungary/Serbia is with Ohio and it is all skibidi and stronk, Skbd Srb. Alabama+Romania lol. Georgia+Georgia is an obvious combo.
. View attachment 7053547

Our Rightwing politicians, "moderaterna" Cut the defence to finance massimmigration.

 

[Slav Power]

no. and proof is that the evil, stoopid, EUVless russians are winning the arms race and by a lot. the western superexpensive supersophisticated wunderwaffen are not made to win wars, but to milk taxpayers of as much $$ as possible.

for a missile system, being able to use a few less milliamps or a few less grams of weight is irrelevant and the same stuff can be done with electronics 2 or 3 or 4 generations older.
besides, all the x nm tech race is mostly marketing, real processors get nowhere near that, and anyway in applications where you need fast processing you are surely not using processors.


le labo le michel on YT is taking apart and reverse engineering a Tornado-S missile, which is relatively recent. have a look. i bet nothing of that is anywhere near 64 nm tech.

>muh missile tech
Consider taking kindergarten reading comprehension courses.

the current arms race that is AI

AI

To spell it out: artificial intelligence. Not rockets and drones, machine learning software, LLM's and all that high end jazz. You need cutting edge processing power for machine learning. China cannot produce it, nor can Russia, only big fabs like TSMC and Samsung can, and those can only produce it thanks to ASML. If it were that easy to do EUV litography then ASML wouldn't be the sole choke point of the entire semiconductor industry today and someone else, be it China or the US, would have their fully domestic answer to their Twinscans. China has to buy Nvidia hardware, and the US forces Nvidia to sell cut down "Dragon" versions of their GPU's to China so that they don't have the same advantage as the rest. If EUV was as useless as you think it is, then China wouldn't need to buy GPU's from the US since they can already make all the chips they'd ever need domestically. But that would require comprehending that no, brute force and war is not the be all end all of how the world turns, and it's beneficial to all the world powers that mainland Europe stays at peace. It's much easier to have ASML already set up and going than saying "fuck it", letting all of it get demolished (for what reason would that be exactly?) and then have maybe a decade long gap as the US rebuilds the EUV litography production domestically.

Even Putin knows this as he aims to try and stop the war that's bleeding him out hard. He overestimated how easy it would be, then Biden kept fueling Ukraine for three years to prolong the war, but now that Trump is in the office he sees a window of opportunity to end it without further fighting, which of course got fucked up by the coked up comic midget that has lost his tiny little mind. Conquering Europe is the last thing on Vova's mind right now and it's pretty damn obvious. His Ukraine takeover gamble has failed and he didn't have a chance to recoup the losses and get back to business as usual until now.

Zelensky made it abundantly clear that it was the Biden administration that kept the war going. He had a chance to resolve things peacefully, recoup his own losses as well, everyone around him was telling him the truth, that this war cannot be won and any plea deal should be taken. Did he listen? No, he has completely lost the plot and strongly believes that Europe will suddenly throw him every piece of equipment they have on hand in hopes he'll magically win it with some wunderwaffe, even though no other European leader is as detached from reality as he is. He is a loose cannon, a mad dog let off his leash, which cannot be said about any other world leader, especially Trump and Putin.

Plus, Trump clearly wants there to be no wars and will use all of US' influence to keep it that way, of which there is a ton over Europe. It's a contradicting belief to simultaneously say that Europe would be useless if not it's dependency on the US while at the same time believing that all of Europe's leadership will suddenly go insane and go to a full war with Russia. The latter can only happen if the former isn't true, because if the former is true, you know damn well that when European leadership starts to get a bit too kooky after drinking their own Kool-Aid, Don is gonna be there to yoink at the leash. Most European military equipment is American after all.

Though I guess it's my mistake barging into a thread about the war and talking about world politics in a broader aspect than just war, conquer and military tech.

 

[Male Idiot]

Time to approach BRICS, maybe ask the chinks to build a few thorium powerplants.

Thorium would be a good idea, but the currently planned one is Russian one. But a Thorium reactor wouldn't hurt.

You need cutting edge processing power for machine learning

Can't you network processors together? That's how all the supercomputers used to run all the galactic dark matter simulations, can't an AI program run on them the same way?

The requirements to run chatgpt and deepseek are big for a tabletop CPU, but compared to a supercomputer these are rookie numbers.

I'm not saying that it won't be useful if you need a non remote operated fully AI drone plane for combat, but we aren't there yet, even the F-35 and its analogues use a pilot, but speaking about Skynet type super AIs for combat and saying ten years is a waste is a bit off for me. I would say Zion Don investing ten years for US only skynet would be very sensible.

You are greatly overestimating the self awareness of EU leaders. They all think they are very important and strong, without realising how false that assumption is.
They went full Dunning-Kruger effect and overestimate themselves by at least a factor of ten.

 

[HOMO FOR LIFE RETURNS]

 

[The giant penis of doom]

Go ahead, fulfill your dream and nuke Europe since it's all useless. Just don't be surprised when five or ten years down the line, even with your Intel fabs, you'll have to regress decades in semiconductor development because the sole company that allowed for UEV litography is gone

Since a large part of ASML is in the US, I would be surprised if the glowies didn't have all the technical documentation already stored, and a bunch of jeets on payroll to have some expertise. So sure, ASML is important, but if tomorrow Veldhoven is nuked, the knowledge would be recreated quickly I think.
And it's EUV. The UV stands for ultraviolet.

I still want to know who saw a video of a comedian playing a piano with his dick and thought he was presidential material for a war.

As mentioned, this is what Jews do when they are allowed to freely express themselves. Degenerate people, Weimar didn't happen on its own. And Ukraine is perfect ground for that. For those who made him president, he is the perfect candidate: no spine, no original thought, just an easily controlled puppet.

Some unrelated autism: National guard partnerships.

Reminds me of the CGP flag autism videos. US states have truly abysmal flags.

Hungary, Poland and Slovakia

What, mate? Slovakia, in medieval times? As the jokes goes in my country, "I'm older than Slovakia". It didn't exist generously until Trianon (as part of the Czechs).

Can't you network processors together?

You underestimate the power of a GPU (or dedicated AI hardware) compared to a CPU. CPUs are great, but GPUs crunch numbers hard. There is a gulf between them. Whatever a GPU can do a CPU can do (not the other way around), but it would be so fucking slow it's not worth talking about. So if you network computers and split the work you still need the GPUs in those computers, and then you can just have the GPUs and spare the overhead of communication.

 

[Male Idiot]

Slovakia and the Ukraine are part of a very exclusive club, countries that can be mocked by the US for their shortness of history.

 

[Slav Power]

Thorium would be a good idea, but the currently planned one is Russian one. But a Thorium reactor wouldn't hurt.

Can't you network processors together? That's how all the supercomputers used to run all the galactic dark matter simulations, can't an AI program run on them the same way?

The requirements to run chatgpt and deepseek are big for a tabletop CPU, but compared to a supercomputer these are rookie numbers.

I'm not saying that it won't be useful if you need a non remote operated fully AI drone plane for combat, but we aren't there yet, even the F-35 and its analogues use a pilot, but speaking about Skynet type super AIs for combat and saying ten years is a waste is a bit off for me. I would say Zion Don investing ten years for US only skynet would be very sensible.

Still, doesn't make sense to let all of Europe burn and destabilize the global economy because of that. No one benefits from it. Nonsensical scenario, especially when you consider that a) even Putin wants to end the war since he knows how much it's draining him economically, both with the sanctions and the ongoing war costs, Trump also wants for there to be peace since he knows war doesn't benefit anyone but the military sector, but Zelensky refuses to act normally and b) Trump has massive influence over Europe so if they try any funny business that chain will get yoinked to avert further escalation. Again, decide whether or not Europe is America's slave or a loose cannon like Ukraine, it's either one or another.

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>doggie doggie dog dog
Funny to hear it coming from a man who is only known for being Putin's presidential term foot in the door. He's yappy like a dog too, he better hope he won't get put down next if he barks too loud. You know, in case he says too much like Zelensky did and fucks with Putin's plans on getting out of this meat grinder peacefully.

Never yap too much when you're just someone's lap dog.

And it's EUV. The UV stands for ultraviolet.

Yes I know, I kept fumbling the abbreviation but caught myself on it on the last post.