US US Politics General 2 - Discussion of President Trump and other politicians

General Trump Banner.png

Should be a wild four years.

Helpful links for those who need them:

Current members of the House of Representatives
https://www.house.gov/representatives

Current members of the Senate
https://www.senate.gov/senators/

Current members of the US Supreme Court
https://www.supremecourt.gov/about/biographies.aspx

Members of the Trump Administration
https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The tariff conversation is stupid. If I give you $100 and you give me $10 I have a deficit of $90. If we stop giving each other money, I necessarily will be in a better position because I keep that $90. You are necessarily worse because you no longer get that money. This is assuming you were even giving me $10 because guess what, the EU doesn't buy our products. There is no mathematical way for tariffs to hurt the United States.
I understand a lot of what gets posted in this thread now that I've read this comment. Thank you, that's been enlightening.
 
Both sides used to brag that the US/Can border was the largest unguarded border in the world but I guess those days are gone now that Canada has decided to import 50% of India to provide slave labor for the elites.
I always think about that one town where the border is literally the road and you’re not allowed to stop on the road because then you’re in an international situation. And there was a news story where cops stop people who cross said street because one side is Canada one side is the USA

A very unprotected border. I wonder how that will change going forward
 
The tariff conversation is stupid. If I give you $100 and you give me $10 I have a deficit of $90. If we stop giving each other money, I necessarily will be in a better position because I keep that $90. You are necessarily worse because you no longer get that money. This is assuming you were even giving me $10 because guess what, the EU doesn't buy our products. There is no mathematical way for tariffs to hurt the United States.
We have ended up at this point like 20 different times in this thread but yep that basically sums up the tariff situation. We lose by doing deals in almost every situation currently so if we stopped we would just win by default.

Still kinda blows me away many people here have 0 clue that most countries have fat tariffs on us and have forever.
 
One of the sad thing about Canada completely fucking itself over is that it will force the US to take steps to protect their northern border.

Both sides used to brag that the US/Can border was the largest unguarded border in the world but I guess those days are gone now that Canada has decided to import 50% of India to provide slave labor for the elites.

I'm old enough to remember when all you needed to go to the US from Canada was your drivers license and they'd wave you through.

Thanks Trudeau for destroy one of the closest and longest national relationships in history just because Orange Man Bad.

I hope your WEF masters reward you well Trudy for what you did to Canada.
Every Candian that can is fleeing south.
 
I think this phrase gives us some wiggle room, if we go full spirit of the constitution mode we could interpret the bold phrase as: subject to the (sole) jurisdiction thereof
which would fulfill the amendment's function and intention of guaranteeing the slaves citizenship as they would be essentially stateless individuals in the jurisdiction and care of our country while denying citizenship to individuals who are subject to other jurisdictions like illegal aliens or tourists.

Anyone else wants to take a crack at armchair lawyering the birthright issue? I genuinely want to know what you guys can come up with.
Slaves were subject to the sole jurisdiction of the US. Illegals and “asylum seekers” aren’t. This raises the question of what to do if the left tries giving illegals citizenship to put them under that jurisdiction, but I don’t think that would matter without it causing a domino effect on people’s ownership and property rights (it’s still happening anyway, like citizens who are arrested for trying to get squatting illegals removed).
 
Serious answer is that liberals can't negotiate. There is a big issue with them being unable to negotiate wages and basically anything you can imagine and it has been that way for awhile. All Trudeau has to do is enforce the border and equalize the trade imbalance and tariffs never would've happened.

I think they're autistic. Not bullshitting, not exaggerating, not intentionally insulting. They have to think in such absolute unquestionable black and white terms that I cannot see them as anything but at least morally autistic, if not that way in general.

I think that modernity has fucked up the kind of teaching and socializing that would help minor cases be normal, leading to more people becoming touched by the tism, and this is a manifestation of it.
 
I think this phrase gives us some wiggle room, if we go full spirit of the constitution mode we could interpret the bold phrase as:

which would fulfill the amendment's function and intention of guaranteeing the slaves citizenship as they would be essentially stateless individuals in the jurisdiction and care of our country while denying citizenship to individuals who are subject to other jurisdictions like illegal aliens or tourists.
Can't it means that say you're born in a US embassy, or a US flagged ship or a US military base or US territory or Indian reservation (maybe) then you are a us citizen. That's how McCain despite being born in the Panama Zone was able to run for the presidency. With the children of illegals, their parents are subject to not being citizens but the children are automatically citizens. This would also mean that your citizenship could be removed because technically your great grandfather never renounced (formally) the citizenship of Italy and thus you are Italian all of a sudden. It is pretty easy to read. Wherever the US flag flies if you give birth there your child is American. The only way we could idk prevent this would be denying people who are in their third trimester from coming to the USA. It sucks that this abuse exists but until an amendment (or at least a bill) is passed it is what the judiciary deems it to be.



Anyone else wants to take a crack at armchair lawyering the birthright issue? I genuinely want to know what you guys can come up with.
see above
 
I don't either but its funny
View attachment 7054379
There's an old saying for men: if you don't have a strong jawline, grow a good beard to hide it. Vance has a weak jaw and can't grow a beard, so everyone's joking that he looks like a big baby. Imagine being Zelensky and getting owned by a baby-faced man like Vance.

A very unprotected border. I wonder how that will change going forward
"SAAR SAAR DO NOT REDEEM BORDER SAAR"
 
The big question is: would you (the average American) pay more for a superior product or less for a similar but inferior product? A shovel is a shovel so why should I buy the more expensive (made in America) one when I can get the cheaper (made in China) one and accomplish the same goals with each?
Luckily this isn't a situation where you have to force consumers to choose an illogical choice. Better education about the suffering required for the cheap goods as well as the difference in quality can push people to make this decision on their own. There is already a growing "buy it for life" movement and "made in America" lines of products are typically well regarded compared to the cheaper version by the same brand. If we really fix the hollowing out of the middle class people might spend those extra bucks in their pocket to reinvest in America.

When it doesn't that is where the tariffs come in to nudge people in the right direction. I'd like to see Trump use that money to help American industry be more competitive by subsidizing technology advancements as well as consumer protections laws such as "slave labor free" and "RFK Jr Approved" labeling.
 
in interest of fairness, i go on reddit to see the left wing perspective. Here's a top ranked reddit post about how trump is a Russian criminal /u/backcountrydrifter explains Trump's criminal history, his undeniable ties to Russian crime syndicates, and the Kleptocracy which is now taking over the collapsing US Government

Kleptocracy is biological. It consumes everything in its path like a parasite.

In Russia it ate Dostoevsky and Tchaikovsky and shit out alcoholism and hopelessness.

Justin Kennedy (justice kennedys son) was the inside man at Deutsche bank that was getting all trumps toxic loans approved.

No other bank but Deutsche bank would touch trump and his imaginary valuations.

Why?

Because Deutsche bank was infested with Russian oligarchs.

For 50 years the oligarchs consumed everything in soviet Russia. They stole everything of value including the hope of Russians.

The corruption eventually collapsed the Soviet Union like the carcass of a parasite riddled host and the oligarchs were forced to expand their feeding grounds.

In 89 the Soviet Union fails and for a couple of years they hid all their ill gotten gains under a mattress until they started buying condos at trump towers.

They made stops in Ukraine, Cyprus and London but they landed in New York because that was what everyone wanted in the late 80’s.

Levi’s, Pepsi, Madonna tapes that weren’t smuggled bootlegs, Wall Street cocaine

They all bought new suits and cars and changed their title from “most violent street thug in moscow” to “respectable Russian oligarch” but they didn’t leave their human trafficking, narcotics or extortion behind. It was their most lucrative business model.

Trump and Giuliani just opened the doors and let the predators in to feed. They all bought condos at trump towers and used trumps casinos to launder their money.

In 89 three of trumps casino execs start asking why their books don’t make sense and they die in a helicopter crash that Roger Stone pulls trump off of at the last minute.

https://pressofatlanticcity.com/gal...cle_40ea7e95-9309-5e01-89ba-7f6c30409ff3.html

Guiliani redirected NYPD resources away from his Russian allies intentionally and onto the Italian mob. It let him claim he cleaned up New York and it lets the russians a perk of doing business with trump.

https://www.motherjones.com/politic...iuliani-was-co-opted-by-russian-intelligence/

The attorney/client privilege is their continual work around they use to accept bribes and make payments up and down the mob pyramid.

The insane valuations coming out in trumps fraud trial are a necessity of the money laundering cycle that duetschebank was doing with the Russians.

The reason trump cosplays as “folksy” is because he is feeding on the U.S. middle class, not because he is one of us.

The GOP fell in line to MAGA because Trump did what pathological liars do, they told them anything they wanted to hear.

Trump with his money laundering and child raping buddy Epstein, Roger Stone with his sex clubs in DC and Nevada, and Paul Manafort with his election rigging pretty much everywhere, sat down at a table with Mike Johnson and the extreme religious right and convinced them that they were the same.

They self evidently are not, at least at a surface level, but there is enough common ground in the exploitation of children, Russian kompromat, desire for unilateral control that they became the worlds weirdest and most dysfunctional orgy.

Trump belongs to the authoritarians. The GOP now belongs to trump.

But their overall goal is the same.

Kleptocracy.

Putin became one of the richest people in the world by stealing from Russians first. The Russian oligarchs used perestroika to privatize all the assets of the USSR by stealing them from the hands of the decent people because that’s what predators do.

We don’t have a political problem. We have a predator problem. Like murder hornets that invade a beehive and destroy a bee every 14 seconds until the hive collapses the oligarchs want to move into the United States and do the same because none of them want to live in Russia.

Who would? after all, it was destroyed by oligarchs and nobody steps away from the mob, they get retired through violent means.

But all these oligarchs are old now and know they can’t keep ahead of the slightly more violent and ambitious lion cub beneath them who is growing tired of paying the old man when he does all the dirty work.

The soviet oligarchs ate Russia to death with their greed. Then Ukraine. Now they are designing a perestroika 2.0 to put 330 million Americans into real estate default so they can come in and buy everything up at 3 cents on the dollar. Trump just enabled them.

It’s the collapse of the USSR, American edition using the naive and compromised GOP as their assault force, But your slave masters are the same. The 3% that are so devoid of empathy that they put their wealth above everything else

Kolomoisky was the putin puppet in Ukraine that bought most of downtown Cleveland.

Before that he started privatbank which was taking IMF loans which the oligarchs would loan to themselves and never repay.

When the IMF figured it out they tried to force Zelensky to have the Ukrainian people pay it back before they would extend any more aid.

Kolomoisky wasn’t alone. He was just the crossroads between Rudy Giuliani, trump and Kushner.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/insid...ad-hamlet-in-ukraine-where-giuliani-is-mayor/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/giuliani-associates-leveraged-gop-access-to-seek-ukraine-gas-deal/

When Ukraine arrested him last year for corruption it cracked the whole network open.

Trump can’t stop lying now or his MAGA base tears him apart when they realize he is literally the man who stole the world.

Trump is a pathological liar. But lying is an expensive habit. If you tell the truth, you can say it once and it’s finished. You have expelled all the energy necessary for it to stand on its own for eternity.

Lying requires infinite and exponentially more energy input in the form of more lies, bribes, extortion and murder to keep it covered.

Trump is now testing this theory on a worldwide scale.

Putin is tied to him by the purse strings and so is everyone who pushes Putin’s narrative because puppet strings work both directions. Why would any sane human push a psychopaths lies unless they are heavily invested in it?

The difference is, this is the first time in known human history that the Information Age happened. You can hide your neighborhood bullshit in 1980. It’s harder in 2000. By 2024 the internet knows more about a narcissistic oligarchs movements than he knows about himself.

It’s just a matter of organizing that data.

They couldn’t self regulate their greed. It’s just following the roach trail back to nest after that.

https://www.ft.com/content/8c6d9dca-882c-11e7-bf50-e1c239b45787

https://www.amlintelligence.com/202...er-massive-aml-discrepancies-in-fincen-leaks/

https://www.occrp.org/en/the-fincen...by-serving-oligarchs-criminals-and-terrorists

https://www.voanews.com/amp/us-lift...firms-linked-to-russia-deripaska/4761037.html

https://democrats-intelligence.hous..._the_russia_investigation_with_appendices.pdf

apparently Deutsche bank was infested with Russian oligarchs in the 80s and 90s

also trump is secretly a russian asset but he doesnt know it


This is a summary of Craig Unger's reseach:

► Trump was first compromised by the Russians back in the 80s. In 1984, the Russian Mafia began to use Trump real estate to launder money and it continued for decades. In 1987, the Soviet ambassador to the United Nations, Yuri Dubinin, arranged for Trump and his then-wife, Ivana, to enjoy an all-expense-paid trip to Moscow to consider possible business prospects. Only seven weeks after his trip, Trump ran full-page ads in the Boston Globe, the NYT and WaPO calling for, in effect, the dismantling of the postwar Western foreign policy alliance. The whole Trump/Russian connection started out as laundering money for the Russian mob through Trump's real estate, but evolved into something far bigger.

► In 1984, David Bogatin — a Russian mobster, convicted gasoline bootlegger, and close ally of Semion Mogilevich, a major Russian mob boss — met with Trump in Trump Tower right after it opened. Bogatin bought five condos from Trump at that meeting. Those condos were later seized by the government, which claimed they were used to launder money for the Russian mob. (NY Times, Apr 30, 1992)

► Felix Sater is a Russian-born former mobster, and former managing director of NY real estate conglomerate Bayrock Group LLC located on the 24th floor of Trump Tower. He is a convict who became a govt cooperator for the FBI and other agencies. He grew up with Michael Cohen--Trump's former "fixer" attorney. Cohen's family owned El Caribe, which was a mob hangout for the Russian Mafia in Brooklyn. Cohen had ties to Ukrainian oligarchs through his in-laws and his brother's in-laws. Felix Sater's father had ties to the Russian mob. This goes back more than 30 years.

► Trump was $4 billion in debt after his Atlantic City casinos went bankrupt. No U.S. bank would touch him. Then foreign money began flowing in through Bayrock (mentioned above). Bayrock was run by two investors: Tevfik Arif, a Kazakhstan-born former Soviet official who drew on bottomless sources of money from the former Soviet republic; and Felix Sater, a Russian-born businessman who had pleaded guilty in the 1990s to a huge stock-fraud scheme involving the Russian mafia. Bayrock partnered with Trump in 2005 and poured money into the Trump organization under the legal guise of licensing his name and property management.

► Semion Mogilevich was the brains behind the Russian Mafia. Mogilevich operatives have been using Trump real estate for decades to launder money. That means Russian Mafia operatives have been part of his fortune for years, that many of them have owned condos in Trump Towers and other properties, that they were running operations out of Trump's crown jewel. (Mogilevich's role today is unclear).

► One of the most important things that is often overlooked is that the Russia Mafia is part and parcel of Russian intelligence. Russia is a mafia state. that is not a metaphor. Putin is head of the Mafia. So the fact that they have been operating out of the home of the president of the United States is deeply disturbing.

► From Craig Unger's AMA: "Early on, a source told me that all this was tied to Semion Mogilevich, the powerful Russian mobster. I had never even heard of him, but I immediately went to a database that listed the owners of all properties in NY state and looked up all the Trump properties. Every time I found a Russian sounding name, I would Google, and add Mogilevich. When you do investigative reporting, you anticipate drilling a number of dry holes, but almost everyone I googled turned out to be a Russian mobster. Again and again. If you know New York you don't expect Trump Tower to be a high crime neighborhood, but there were far too many Russian mobsters in Trump properties for it to be a coincidence."

► So many Russians bought Trump apartments at his developments in Florida that the area became known as Little Moscow. The developers of two of his hotels were Russians with significant links to the Russian mob. The late leader of that mob in the United States, Vyacheslav Kirillovich Ivankov, was living at Trump Tower.

► According to a Bloomberg investigation (March 16, 2017) into Trump World Tower, “a third of units sold on floors 76 through 83 by 2004 involved people or limited liability companies connected to Russia and neighboring states.”

► In July 2008, the height of the recession, Donald Trump sold a mansion in Palm Beach for $95 million to Dmitry Rybolovlev, a Russian oligarch. Trump had purchased it four years earlier for $41.35 million. The sale price was nearly $54 million more than Trump had paid for the property. Again, this was the height of the recession when all other property had plummeted in value.

► In 2013, Federal agents busted an “ultraexclusive, high-stakes, illegal poker ring” run by Russian gangsters out of Trump Tower. In addition to card games, they operated illegal gambling websites, ran a global sports book and laundered more than $100 million. A condo directly below one owned by Trump reportedly served as HQ for a “sophisticated money-laundering scheme” connected to Semion Mogilevich.

► Rudy Giuliani famously prosecuted the Italian mob while he was a federal prosecutor, yet the Russian mob was allowed to thrive under his tenure in the Southern District and Mayor. And now he's deeply entwined in the business of Trump and Russian oligarchs. Giuiani appointed Semyon Kislin to the NYC Economic Development Council in 1990, and the FBI described Kislin as having ties tot he Russian mob. Of course, it made good political sense for Giuliani to get headlines for smashing the Italian mob.

► A lot of Republicans in Washington are implicated. Boatloads of Russian money went to the GOP--often in legal ways. The NRA got as much as $70M from Russia, then funneled it to the GOP. The Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee lead by McConnel got millions from Leonard Blavatnik. In the 90s, the Russians began sending money to top GOP leaders, like Speaker of the House Tom Delay. Unger's book alleges that most of the GOP leadership has been compromised by RU money.

► At the Cityscape USA’s Bridging US and the Emerging Real Estate Markets Conference held in Manhattan, on September 9, 10, and 11, 2008, Trump Jr. was frank about the tide of Russian money supporting the family business, saying "...And in terms of high-end product influx into the US, Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets."

► Eric Trump told James Dodson, a golf reporter, in 2014 that the Trump Organization was able to expand during the financial crisis because “We don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.”

Outcomes that show Trump is taking orders (or cues) from Putin:

► At the end of 2018, Putin and his allies started making a strong push for a resolution that would justify their country’s 1979 invasion of Afghanistan and reverse an 1989 vote backed by Mikhail Gorbachev that condemned it. The Putinists’ goal was to pass the resolution by Feb. There is no one on this side of the Atlantic who thinks the USSR was justified in invading Afghanistan. And out of nowhere, on January 2nd, Trump came out strongly supporting Russia's 1979 invasion of Afghanistan.

► Trump told the FBI he didn't believe their intelligence because Putin told him otherwise. "I don't care, I believe Putin"

► Trump met in secret with Putin the G20 summit in November 2018, without note takers. 19 days later, he announced a withdrawal from Syria. As a note, Trump conducted FIVE completely private meetings and conferences with Putin, and has gone to great lengths to prevent literally anyone, even people in his administration, from learning what was discussed.

► He has denounced his own intelligence agencies in a press conference with Putin on election meddling - and publicly endorsed Putin's version of events. .

► Trump pulled out of the INF treaty with no explanation, which allows Putin to create long-range hypersonic missiles that threaten Europe with impunity. The US already has all the weaponry that the INF would ban the development of, so this offers us literally nothing, while allowing Russia to develop powerful new weapons to challenge our allies.

► After calls with Putin, Trump keeps trying to reduce America’s military readiness. In the last administration, this meant cancelling the digital catapult systems on aircraft carriers in favote of steam systems. In the current administration, after chatting with Putin he wanted to halve the US defense budget and promote Russia back into the G7

► And of course, Trump continues to threaten to pull out of NATO, a move so catastrophically stupid, so inconceivably cosmically myopic, I truly can't express the profundity of the idiocy. Suffice to say, pulling out of NATO would be like the only guy in a prison yard with a shotgun just throwing it over the fence for absolutely no reason, suddenly giving the people with crude homemade shivs complete power.

► In summation: Trump was in debt and the Russians cultivated him as an unwitting asset.
 
I always think about that one town where the border is literally the road and you’re not allowed to stop on the road because then you’re in an international situation. And there was a news story where cops stop people who cross said street because one side is Canada one side is the USA

A very unprotected border. I wonder how that will change going forward
Pfft. In Northern Maine, the border is a river called the Madawaska.

You can paddle a canoe right along the border

Source: I did it
 
The big question is: would you (the average American) pay more for a superior product or less for a similar but inferior product? A shovel is a shovel so why should I buy the more expensive (made in America) one when I can get the cheaper (made in China) one and accomplish the same goals with each?
It depends how much you will use the shovel. Do you only need it for one instance? Perhaps the cheaper shovel is for you. However in the long term you would want the more expensive but quality shovel. The quality shovel could cost $100 but last for the rest of your life, but the cheap shovel could cost $20 and have to be replaced every 10 years. Which would cost more in the long run?
 
Back