Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[InJailOutSoon]

Time for another thought-provoking question:

So I can understand why maybe most angels, like Winners, wouldn't know about the yearly exterminations. But why do none of the other seraphim know? I can get Emily not knowing since she is the youngest seraphim and maybe the exterminations started before she came into existence. But the other seraphim have been there since the beginning.


And in the leaked episode of season 2, we see that she still doesn't discuss with the other seraphim about what to do next regarding the exterminations; she talks with Abel and St. Peter.

Were the seraphim even in either court scene? Have they fucked off completely after Lucifer's fall? Are they only going to appear and matter in S3 or S4 and cause more egregious plotholes like the Speaker of God did?

 

[Kenny Blankenship]

View attachment 7077600

Fall, bitch!

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

And in the leaked episode of season 2, we see that she still doesn't discuss with the other seraphim about what to do next regarding the exterminations; she talks with Abel and St. Peter.

Abel I get being there, since he's the leader of the exorcists now (Hurray for nepotism), but what the fuck is Peter there for? They don't know what gets someone into Heaven in the first place and Pentious bypassed the gate and got dropped right in front of Sera and Emily.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Abel I get being there, since he's the leader of the exorcists now (Hurray for nepotism), but what the fuck is Peter there for? They don't know what gets someone into Heaven in the first place and Pentious bypassed the gate and got dropped right in front of Sera and Emily.

My point is why wouldn't Sera want to discuss this with the other seraphim? I think they would have a much better insight on what to do next then nice-guy Abel and door-manager Peter.

The way Sera talks in both S1 and the upcoming S2 that she has all this burden to bear and that she's the only one who can make the decision. But that's obviously not the case because we have the other seraphim. There are angels in the court room that seem to be of high standing as well. So why not get all of them together in a meeting to discuss on what Heaven should do next.

Yeah, she may still be the one to have the final say in this matter but at least she could get some well-meaning opinion and advice from them. Maybe one of them could have reminded her that she could put a barrier around the entirety of Heaven that would prevent people coming in and out without being heavily vetted first. Then maybe the exterminations wouldn't have even happened in it first place because they know that no one would be able to enter into Heaven without their permission.

 

[Saxxon]

My point is why wouldn't Sera want to discuss this with the other seraphim? I think they would have a much better insight on what to do next then nice-guy Abel and door-manager Peter.

The way Sera talks in both S1 and the upcoming S2 that she has all this burden to bear and that she's the only one who can make the decision. But that's obviously not the case because we have the other seraphim. There are angels in the court room that seem to be of high standing as well. So why not get all of them together in a meeting to discuss on what Heaven should do next.

Yeah, she may still be the one to have the final say in this matter but at least she could get some well-meaning opinion and advice from them. Maybe one of them could have reminded her that she could put a barrier around the entirety of Heaven that would prevent people coming in and out without being heavily vetted first. Then maybe the exterminations wouldn't have even happened in it first place because they know that no one would be able to enter into Heaven without their permission.

Forget about the other seraphim, why she just doesn't ask for an assembly with the greatest minds that heaven has to offer? Are you telling me that there's not a single general, politician, philosopher or leader soul that can give her advice on how to approach the recent developments with the exorcists and SirPen's redemption?
There's no reason for her to only depend on Abel, a guy that didn't even reach full adulthood before dying and Peter, which pope wisdom aside, is obviously out of his field in terms of militaristic defense.

Pentious bypassed the gate and got dropped right in front of Sera and Emily.

I still want to believe that they only reason that scene happened, was to imply that Sirpen became a seraph, since seraphim are sometimes described as fiery snakes and if you add the multiple eyes well, Sir Pentious fits the bill but by the leaks of S2 they got cold feet with that idea.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

Forget about the other seraphim, why she just doesn't ask for an assembly with the greatest minds that heaven has to offer? Are you telling me that there's not a single general, politician, philosopher or leader soul that can give her advice on how to approach the recent developments with the exorcists and SirPen's redemption?
There's no reason for her to only depend on Abel, a guy that didn't even reach full adulthood before dying and Peter, which pope wisdom aside, is obviously out of his field in terms of militaristic defense.

You're silly, if Sera was smart, than Hazbin Hotel's plot wouldn't have even happened. So expecting intelligence from her is like expecting Vivzie to focus her shows on straight couples.

 

[nevertosubmit88]

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

OK, "I'm Always Chasing Rainbows" actually fits Chris-Chan's life scarily well.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Again, laughing at this way more than I did with Viv's shows combined.

 

[LucasSomething]

More vivzie critcism i spotted on the rant subreddit

https://old.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/1j80k2f/hellaverses_female_character_writing_is/

Some amazing insults here

(^this one is my favourite)

bonus villain analysis

 

[AnOminous]

This legit makes me sad. Stolas from "Loo Loo Land" could have been such a sympathetic character.

Instead. We get this.

 

[The_Gam3]

IDK Millie's backstory should've been the plot of Bloodsport, that one Jean-Claude movie. It makes sense considering she's the best fighter. Literally anything for my girl atp.

 

[Po's Cootah]

I just watched the Hazbin Hotel series. It was decent and some parts were genuinely charming and entertaining, but I have big issues with the lore and the humor/writing.

The series would be much better if Charlie was a partially fallen angel who was given a mission to help the departed souls of the Purgatory and the least wicked departed souls from Hell to redeem themselves and if Adam was a good guy. Only the most wicked souls of Hell could turn into sinner demons, and all the others would simply be tormented ghosts. People like Jim Jones, Adolf Hitler, Shoko Asahara, David Berg and Mao Zedong would be some of the sinner demons. Hellborn demons would obviously be evil creatures.

Angel Dust and Sir Pentious would be departed souls who went to Hell for having selfish and broken hearts. Lucifer would be an actual evil guy who was banished from Heaven for wanting the same power God had and fooling Adam and Eve - the first humans of the Holocene period, in other words, the first modern humans after billions of years of evolution - into becoming self-aware through the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. Valentino would be calm, mature and ever-smiling besides his cruel behavior, becoming a sinner demon for being a corrupt drug lord and owner of a porn studio who enabled sex trafficking.

Hell would obviously be a much darker place and biblically accurate, along with Heaven, but there would also still be a touch of dark comedy.

I don't like this "what if god bad and satan good" thing of the series.

 

[The tired cat]

I don't like this "what if god bad and satan good" thing of the series.

The most annoying part about the "What if God was bad" is pretty much a very dated concept. If Hazbin came out during say the Bush/Obama era, then it would feel right at home, cause this was the time period where such a thing would be seen as cutting edge or even "ohoho..look how cool we are!", after all this was the era when we had The Preacher, the Constantine series being more popular and so forth. But, to release it today, it feels very behind the times; we're long passed that point and you cannot impress anyone with such a topic, especially when American Christians have been making retards of themselves for a good while now. So, really it feels like Viv was chasing this trend that has long passed, I know people say it'll grab the hot topic/tween/twitter crowd, but even to them this seems like a very dated thing.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

I don't like this "what if god bad and satan good" thing of the series.

Thing is we don't really know anything about God in this series. For the longest time, Viv said she didn't want to portray God in her series and that the only Biblical characters she would have would be Lucifer and Lilith.

That obviously is not true anymore, and with the reveal of the Speaker of God in season 2 it seems like God will either be shown or at least mentioned heavily in the future. From the looks of it, God seems to be extremely hands-off and let the angels decide what they think is best. He wasn't even there to partake in the creation of Earth.

 

[Re(Runner)48]

Thing is we don't really know anything about God in this series. For the longest time, Viv said she didn't want to portray God in her series and that the only Biblical characters she would have would be Lucifer and Lilith.

That obviously is not true anymore, and with the reveal of the Speaker of God in season 2 it seems like God will either be shown or at least mentioned heavily in the future. From the looks of it, God seems to be extremely hands-off and let the angels decide what they think is best. He wasn't even there to partake in the creation of Earth.

Then what's the point of being God? In this universe and making all these rules nobody adheres to? And making God evil but not showing him? WHAT why would you do that? Even in fictional series like Lord of the Rings where there lore and stuff going on you still see the villain! What would be the point of having a villian you never see Viv?

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

I don't like this "what if god bad and satan good" thing of the series.

The exterminations should have been put in place after a Lucifer that actually acts like Lucifer tried to invade Heaven primarily using legions of Sinners about a millennium or two before the start of the series. Heaven needed some way to ensure this wouldn't happen again but were unwilling to kill Lucifer for this act (They were either concerned with the power vacuum or maybe they were just unable to will themselves to outright kill the fallen seraphim.) It would also explain why almost all of them are unwilling to listen to Charlie, since she's Lucifer's spawn so they believe her attitude and beliefs are just an elaborate ruse to try and take over Heaven and even if she was honest Lucifer could just leverage her redemption plan to his advantage somehow.

Then what's the point of being God? In this universe and making all these rules nobody adheres to? And making God evil but not showing him? WHAT why would you do that? Even in fictional series like Lord of the Rings where there lore and stuff going on you still see the villain! What would be the point of having a villian you never see Viv?

Is God/Heaven actually evil? The whole plotline of exterminations somehow staying super-secret reeks of scapegoating all of Heaven's problems towards Sera and all of the Exorcists. But then the worldbuilding is so weak that we don't even know if only Sera knew about the Exterminations outside Adam and the Exorcists, and this isn't even answered in the leaked episode that takes place entirely in Heaven minus a two-minute flashback, which would have been prime opportunity to show Heaven's wider reaction to the revelation that billions of Sinners have been killed through a secret yearly operation that's been going on for an unknown number of years.

 

[RavioliHabit]

I'm laughing so fucking hard at the "Stayed Gone" part doing both Alastor and Vox's voices, holy kek

 

[Doctor of Autism]

The exterminations should have been put in place after a Lucifer that actually acts like Lucifer tried to invade Heaven primarily using legions of Sinners about a millennium or two before the start of the series. Heaven needed some way to ensure this wouldn't happen again but were unwilling to kill Lucifer for this act (They were either concerned with the power vacuum or maybe they were just unable to will themselves to outright kill the fallen seraphim.) It would also explain why almost all of them are unwilling to listen to Charlie, since she's Lucifer's spawn so they believe her attitude and beliefs are just an elaborate ruse to try and take over Heaven and even if she was honest Lucifer could just leverage her redemption plan to his advantage somehow.

Is God/Heaven actually evil? The whole plotline of exterminations somehow staying super-secret reeks of scapegoating all of Heaven's problems towards Sera and all of the Exorcists. But then the worldbuilding is so weak that we don't even know if only Sera knew about the Exterminations outside Adam and the Exorcists, and this isn't even answered in the leaked episode that takes place entirely in Heaven minus a two-minute flashback, which would have been prime opportunity to show Heaven's wider reaction to the revelation that billions of Sinners have been killed through a secret yearly operation that's been going on for an unknown number of years.

I don't think Heaven is evil since yeah the exterminations are more likely on the fault of Sera, Adam, and Totally not Eve who's really Roo. The worst I can see Heaven being is just portraying the upper echelons as just the privileged out of touch with what happens in Hell.

It makes more sense when you remember that Vivzie is just using Heaven and Hell as aesthetics rather than actually having any theological motivations to have whose good or bad.

Personally think many of them just sound like nightcore, but the Moxxie love songs to Millie really feel like the authentic CWC experience.

The pathetic and intimidating model can work if Vivzie stuck to comedy so characters like the DHORKs, Stella, Mammon, and Adam who either have heavily comedic traits or have a good vocal performance that can actually sell the intimidation factor.

But again not every villain needs this like Striker and Valentino can have some comedic moments but making them overtly goofy makes them less serious.

The other Vee's are in a weird spot where it can maybe work for them though it helps they are not doing anything that should be treated with more nuance like sexual assault and abuse that Valentino does.

Would say that objectively the biggest failure of this model is Moxxie's dad just for the fact he has the same voice as his son which makes it really hard to take Richard Horvitz doing an evil Italian voice seriously yet Vivzie wants him to be this ruthless mob boss who is an abusive dad.

 

[Po's Cootah]

Then what's the point of being God? In this universe and making all these rules nobody adheres to? And making God evil but not showing him? WHAT why would you do that? Even in fictional series like Lord of the Rings where there lore and stuff going on you still see the villain! What would be the point of having a villian you never see Viv?

You know, it would be 1000% awesome if God was like this in the show.



An eldritch, but benevolent being who transcends time and space. No concrete identity, age or gender. Man was made close to His image, but man also imagined God with their own images. You know, unlike generic prettyboy Lucifer and generic dragon furry Satan.