US US Politics General 2 - Discussion of President Trump and other politicians

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Should be a wild four years.

Helpful links for those who need them:

Current members of the House of Representatives
https://www.house.gov/representatives

Current members of the Senate
https://www.senate.gov/senators/

Current members of the US Supreme Court
https://www.supremecourt.gov/about/biographies.aspx

Members of the Trump Administration
https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/

 

[Hitlerswag420]

From what I understand, the consensus settled on it being valid if done in his presence and at his direction, purely as a labor saving device, but definitely not if used independently.

The thing is, there's probably no way to prove that that isn't what happened. He can just say that it was done in his presence and at his direction, even if it wasn't

 

[LOWERCASE LETTERS]

Frankly while presidential pardons get abused on occasion, having the next president able to roll them back would make the clause pointless

 

[CyrusHowler]

Former Trump voter here

Lmao no you’re not.

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

The pardons aren't going away. I don't know why anyone would think they would. Wishing really hard that Fauci gets the rope sadly won't make it happen.

I assume Biden's going to get dragged out of his retirement home to make a statement at some point in the next day or two.

I don't buy that Trump would argue this without having this hurdle cleared. The way Trump worded this largely seems to insinuate that it was Joe Biden himself saying he did not sign or know about these pardons. He's been on camera dozens of times saying he would never pardon Hunter but at the end of his term he turns around does it anyway? If that's the case and Joe Biden and Jill Biden both attest to not knowing anything about the pardons, then I'd say Trump has a leg to stand on.

What? Are you going to argue the President is too incompetent to remember signing the pardons on national television? You can't just say that and make this all magically go away. That's simultaneously an admission it was done without his sound mind. You can't use that argument to dismiss this in court. If you do, you admit that the person holding the auto-pen control was the defacto President which is an entire separate legal can of worms. The Constitution protects the President's right to issue a pardon. It does not protect it if the President himself comes out and says he never issued those pardons and someone did it on his behalf without his knowledge of it. That's clearly a treasonous act and makes them illegitimate. There's no specific crime that was ever being pardoned. It was just blanket pardons for future crimes that might be investigated someday. There's no standing for these pardons on their own to begin with.

 

[Lone MacReady II]

Hey, we may be heading into a Stargate-controlled CBDCs oligarchic dystopia - but seeing Pedojoe swing might be worth it.

 

[Chainsaw Juggler]

I saw this on wikipedia regarding the autopen (yes I know, it is horribly biased on all things political).

So Wiki is claiming
1) There may be originals out there signed by hand
2)There are photos that challenge the former staffer's claim of autopen

Does anyone know more about this? #2 in particular just sounds like political mushmouth that a picture of Biden signing a document technically exists, therefore staffer is wrong.

 

[moocow]

Ya win some ya lose some.I don't think anything will come about at this pardon announcement. Sometimes I think Trump should not be as over the top and stay quiet sometimes.Overall excepting Ukraine and this I'm very happy with President Trump.

The pardons aren't going away. I don't know why anyone would think they would. Wishing really hard that Fauci gets the rope sadly won't make it happen.

Of course the pardons will stand. That's not why this is being done. It will give us a fair number of benefits though:

• It'll make the courts make a decision about this sort of thing for good (e.g. autopen being legit, revoking past pardons, etc.)
• It'll keep the actual crimes and offenses of the pardoned assholes in the public eye instead of letting these little shits wriggle out of it completely, even if the legal hammer never comes down on them
• It'll let us sniff for other weaknesses and nastiness based on how the Dems react -- they can't "not fight" this for obvious reasons (the people pardoned are guilty as fuck and know where lots of bodies are buried), but the way they choose to fight will be very informative and entertaining (Biden's dementia-riddled now and would give terrible testimony, and proving he was aware of (and approved) all that autopen usage could be an "interesting" problem for them)
• It'll distract the press and obviously crooked judiciary from other, more important battles
• It'll make liberals and radicals everywhere seethe with impotent rage and that's always really, really fucking funny

C'mon, doomposters, this is officially a Circus show, part of the Bread & Circus thing governments have been doing for millennia. Come join us as we laugh at the clowns!

 

[KingPenguin120]

Is this some auto-generated account or something? I don't think anybody was arguing this.
View attachment 7102276
What are you up to in there, buddy?

This is like the third no-pfp low-post dud account that just randomly started posting in the last couple of pages. And they're all speaking with the same uncharacteristic styles like all ending statements with "!" like you'd see some facebook grandma do. Did a bunch of botted Manchurian Candidate accounts just spring to life?

Joe Biden made a bot farm for the thread and is trying to shit it up.

 

[Get the rope Macaulay!]

Loomer is personally insane, but goddamit she's a great journalist. like those shitty private detectives in media, she's absolutely awful but she always gets her scoop.

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

He cannot. The sole power to determine whether a president was cognitively able to perform his duties is vested in the Vice President (and the President that is accused of having cognitive issues). The Congress, of course, has the sole authority to resolve any dispute on the matter. The 25th Amendment gives no power to Trump in this case (or even to the courts)

The last decade or so has pretty conclusively proven that that there is no "cannot", there is only "we'll see what shakes out".

Frankly while presidential pardons get abused on occasion, having the next president able to roll them back would make the clause pointless

Literally all it takes to make a pardon ironclad is actually fucking signing the thing. Which Biden didn't do. That's the point.

 

[( ◠‿◠ )]

But what if he did?

Stop breakfast questioning everything!

 

[Breadbassket]

What are you up to in there, buddy?

This is like the third no-pfp low-post dud account that just randomly started posting in the last couple of pages. And they're all speaking with the same uncharacteristic styles like all ending statements with "!" like you'd see some facebook grandma do. Did a bunch of botted Manchurian Candidate accounts just spring to life?

The thread was featured on the homepage which usually attracts a lot of attention for better and for worse so that might explain the recent appearance of some users here.

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

C'mon, doomposters, this is officially a Circus show, part of the Bread & Circus thing governments have been doing for millennia. Come join us as we laugh at the clowns!

No, if my money goes on anything, Roberts cites standing and latches and will refuse to hear the case outright because he is a traitor to the American people.

 

[Welsh Catgirl Enjoyer]

Seems like he's going for technicality to get those pardons revoked, though tbh, the blanket pardons should be revoked on the grounds that it's fucking ridiculous to say "literally anything that happened in those ten years, even stuff we aren't aware of at the time of pardoning, is pardoned".

Hunter Biden could have murdered a hooker, cut her up and ate her in 2021 and the blanket pardon would mean he gets away with it.

 

[LOWERCASE LETTERS]

Tbh it would be hilarious if Biden gave an interview saying "I didn't sign that shit" but no way he will.

 

[kickingstones]

The pardons aren't going away. I don't know why anyone would think they would. Wishing really hard that Fauci gets the rope sadly won't make it happen.

Let's assume that the pardons do stick.

It's 100% worth while exposing the abuses of the auto pen. So that the blob cant rule thru hivemind next time. No we want a president with agency, who is responsible for there actions and decisions they make as the executive.

Trump's admin can litigate the crimes of the pre pardon to the public. And it can act as a de facto remedy so that these reptiles will have the reputation and legacy they deserve.

 

[Penguarisu]

Specifically MUZZIE pirates, if memory serves.

Muzzie State-Sponsored pirates, who would enslave any non-Muslim they couldn't ransom. The Barbary pirates terrorized the Mediterranean for a thousand years.

 

[NicholasScooterBus]

Former Trump voter here. There is no plan. Trump is just insane. He’s tearing up alliances to help support Putin, his supporters have this insane idea that protesting at a Tesla station is terrorism, and the economy is collapsing while innocent citizens are getting disappeared in foreign nations without due process because they’re just brown.

 

[The Ugly One]

Hunter Biden could have murdered a hooker, cut her up and ate her in 2021 and the blanket pardon would mean he gets away with it.

Only if he transported her across state lines to eat her. Otherwise, it's a state crime.

 

[mandatorylurk]

I wonder if Trump making stink about the autopen pardons is a plan to make that an easy knock for SCOTUS, so they can more easily say Trump can deport illegals and fire people in the government as is his right.

Let's be frank here, Roberts and ACB know there's bullshit going on with the courts but they are keeping a gay little notepad of "Pro Trump/Anti Trump" and they can't let the pro Trump side get too big. So this is something that, while making Joepedo look worse, can be ruled as ok but will force future presidents to sign these things in public, which is precisely why Trump has been doing this since 1/20.

When you see how Trump negotiates, this looks like it's throwing the judiciary a bone, but if he can actually get it he'll take it.