Sonic The Hedgehog Games

[Necrosan]

None of your favorite sonic villains get to come back

Like who exactly? The only one who hasn't come back is normal Chaos.

It's the one thing I can sort of give props to Infinite for. A villain who could have a back and forth with Sonic other than Eggman.

 

[MirageKai]

It sounds generally feminine but has a bit of raspiness to it (when speaking in a more generally high register for males) so I'm leaning towards a male-to-female troon. At times it seems like there's a bit of lower-end tinge to their voice.

That or I'm fucking stupid and the person is just on the non-binary bandwagon right now.

Edit: I'm looking through the person's follows and a lot of them are troon shit which gives credence to me thinking the person is an MTF troon. I haven't really seen this among "cisgender" people unless youre Layne Blakeney's parents.

Ofc this troon have this tumblrish evan/cutuesy adjacent artstyle. Hecking blood in my sonic fancomic!?!?!!? I would not be surprised if this was a fetish.

 

[GoodWinSon]

Me when I see Zavok forced into yet another Sonic game:
View attachment 7124985

Ken and the burger guy from Boom really complete this image.

 

[The Lawgiver]

Like who exactly? The only one who hasn't come back is normal Chaos.

It's the one thing I can sort of give props to Infinite for. A villain who could have a back and forth with Sonic other than Eggman.

If he wasn't underutilized and the rival team up to kick sonic's ass wasn't turned into clickbait "oh they're just illusion hallucination clones" the game's reputation wouldn't be tanked horribly. They were setting up forces as a generations sequel and then it came out as a bad asset flip with a plot that wasn't even what the game was hyped up as being marketed as but something much much lamer and more nonsense. Infinite being just some rando petty guy that got beat up by shadow as his origin works as hilarious as it is. They also didn't hype up infinite having any kind of secret identity as far as I remember but he was kind of implied to have a bit more backstory than just being some nobody thug hired by eggman to defend his base getting his ass beat by some other guy that called him weak. Him being an overcompensating weak thug that has to rely on eggman's stuff to try and prove himself is a cool extra antagonist side character idea.

What I find REALLY odd about infinite is shit saying he died after being defeated in forces when you blatantly see him just get teleported away by eggman so he can deal with sonic himself, not die in the last cutscene he shows up in. It's like the opposite situation to the deadly 6 where they visibly die via collapse smoke poof in game and are treated as dead afterwards by the plot of lost world, yet they keep showing up afterwards with no explanation as if that didn't happen. Zavok in particular is especially weird because they treat what happened in forces as another one of his defeats but forces also changed the plot so that all the guys including zavok were just illusion cube schizo hallucinations.

 

[Mr. Idiot]

I actually like Tangle, probably the best girl character to be added to the series since Sticks cuz she has actually has a friggin personality. Unlike a lot of the new batch of nagging girlbosses, I think she fits in enough with the original cast that if you toned down her outfit a little she'd fit nicely in the satam era.

She also actually has a power that isn't just 'owns a gun', which is bonus.

I stated it quite some time ago, but I do agree that out of all the IDW threadslop Tangle actually seemed quite decent design-wise and since she was introduced around the start she had a decent opportunity showcasing a energetic and helpful personality that could be in line with the actual cast and as you mentioned, that prehensile long tail is a neat ability since besides Tails and Fang in his Fighters moveset no other character has been shown using their tail for offense.

Just a shame that she got ruined just as quickly and is now mainly just used as woke lesbian ship fuel with emo Sniper Wolf.

As stated above, these are restricted in one way nor another: Fang is a merc lackey bound to the past for inane reasons. Neo Metal could work if he goes rogue again, otherwise he's Eggman's lackey. DOOM could work, if he's resurrected (perhaps by the time the movie about Shadow reaches the live action works?). The Heavies are minions with personality, unless they steal another Mcguffin again, I suppose. The Rogues are crooks, not proper villain materials IMO, but that can be argued. Nega is Edgy Eggman. And so on.
The issue is not only the writing, but having Sega remember they have characters rusting somewhere.
I would like for the Battle-Bird Armada to show up again so that Tails can throw napalm bombs at them once again, but I dunno if that will happen, especially with Ian "Lol FLASHBACKS!" Flynn.

Tails vs. Speedy rematch when, SEGA?

I really wish SEGA wouldn't tie Fang to this classic era-only nonsense since he could very well work as a wild card character who only chooses the winning side as long as he can make a profit in the end so plenty of untapped potential there.

I don't think SEGA will roll with Black Doom or the Black Arms in general again after Shadow Generations, although that potential Shadow movie/series spinoff will very likely tap into his 'arriving in a meteor'-origin and include that element so who knows.

The issue from my perspective is that they need to either bring back the likes of the Battle-Bird Armada/the Witchcart Gang or come up with different antagonist factions besides Eggman and his robots that both have entertaining personalities and don't get axed off or turn good at the end. Deadly Shits are not the way to go in my opinion.

Weren't both games mentioned in Frontiers and Generations? Although I forget if it was in the original Generations or just the Ian Flynn rewrite.

I recall Secret Rings was being referenced early on in original Generations:

Sonic team has some weird unwarrented hard-on for Zavok. None of your favorite sonic villains get to come back, yet this red fucker gets forced into as many pieces of sonic media as possible

First impressions matter a lot and the Deadly Six are just one-note miniboss lineup fodder from a Mario theme-imitation title without anything really interesting going for them other than the ability to control machinery, so I dunno what the hell makes them want to slap in Bargain Bin-Bowser a lot and to a lesser extent the manic pink fucker in one of the Olympics and now Crossworlds as well.

Any hopes or expectations for the Extreme Gear in Crossworlds? I want to hope they'll bring back Turbulence from the first Riders, but that would probably make boards completely superior to cars, and I don't think they'd want that.

I don't personally have any real big impressions from this title other than Sonic Team remembering and including back a couple of characters like Cream and all three of both the Chaotix and Babylon Rogues into being playable again, but for the rest it seems like just another standard kart racer that re-uses assets from Transformed like Team Racing did before to me.

I'm at least hoping they'll tone down or put more variety into the character voice line spam for doing tricks in mid-air and the few remaining slots for additional characters and what other courses they'll add is something to still look forward to, but I'm not holding my breath so far in terms of wanting to pick this up right away. That turbulence thing does sound like a neat thing to include though.

 

[The Lawgiver]

all three of both the Chaotix

Didya forget about might-oh wait sega did too aside from merch and the one time generations DLC thing.

 

[Necrosan]

If he wasn't underutilized and the rival team up to kick sonic's ass wasn't turned into clickbait "oh they're just illusion hallucination clones" the game's reputation wouldn't be tanked horribly. They were setting up forces as a generations sequel and then it came out as a bad asset flip with a plot that wasn't even what the game was hyped up as being marketed as but something much much lamer and more nonsense. Infinite being just some rando petty guy that got beat up by shadow as his origin works as hilarious as it is. They also didn't hype up infinite having any kind of secret identity as far as I remember but he was kind of implied to have a bit more backstory than just being some nobody thug hired by eggman to defend his base getting his ass beat by some other guy that called him weak.

What I find REALLY odd about infinite is shit saying he died after being defeated in forces when you blatantly see him just get teleported away by eggman so he can deal with sonic himself, not die in the last cutscene he shows up in. It's like the opposite situation to the deadly 6 where they visibly die via collapse smoke poof in game and are treated as dead afterwards by the plot of lost world, yet they keep showing up afterwards with no explanation as if that didn't happen. Zavok in particular is especially weird because they treat what happened in forces as another one of his defeats but forces also changed the plot so that all the guys including zavok were just illusion cube schizo hallucinations.

The issue from my perspective is that they need to either bring back the likes of the Battle-Bird Armada/the Witchcart Gang or come up with different antagonist factions besides Eggman and his robots that both have entertaining personalities and don't get axed off or turn good at the end. Deadly Shits are not the way to go in my opinion.

Problem is that the world isn't fleshed out as it should, we know Sonic & Co. live in Mobius but we never see any of it and Eggman seems to be only problem they have over there.

The other part of the problem is that Eggman wants total OC death/enslavement so it's hard to come up with a character that would team up with him other than an eldritch being that doesn't talk and just follows orders until it's time to hijack the plot.

If you only played the games, you'd know more about every other world except for Sonic's actual homeworld.

 

[The Lawgiver]

Problem is that the world isn't fleshed out as it should, we know Sonic & Co. live in Mobius but we never see any of it and Eggman seems to be only problem they have over there.

If you only played the games, you'd know more about every other world except for Sonic's actual homeworld.

If you played the games you'd know sonic lives on earth. Mobius was just early US/UK localization shit that only really showed up in the DiC cartoons (and archie/fleetway)

 

[Necrosan]

If you played the games you'd know sonic lives on earth. Mobius was just early US/UK localization shit that only really showed up in the DiC cartoons.

My point is that instead of fleshing out the world where Sonic lives, the plots seem to take place elsewhere and they talk about THAT world instead of the one they should be talking.

What's there to do in Sonic's Earth? Are there banks to rob, do any OC in it wants to steal the emeralds or anything? You'd think they live in a permanent state of peace until Eggman decides to do something.

I'd even argue that Eggman is more of a protagonist than Sonic at this point becuase everything that has ever happened in the series is more or less thanks to him.

 

[Mr. Idiot]

Didya forget about might-oh wait sega did too aside from merch and the one time generations DLC thing.

I presume Mighty was a member of the group to some extent back on the 32X game, and this is just me theorizing or grasping at straws so feel free to correct me, but wasn't Mighty essentially a means to implement a Sonic stand-in character when Sonic Crackers was repurposed into Knuckles' Chaotix so they just copied over alot of Sonic's sprites and reskinned them into Mighty? (From what I remember other than the wall-jumping mechanic in the game it wasn't until Mania Plus that Mighty gained a more unique identity of his own other than a reskinned Sonic)

As wild and inconsistent as the Sonic continuity can be, it at least seems that amongst what does stick, the Chaotix crew is pretty much depicted as a trio from Heroes onwards given their appearances in media since, and Mighty seems to share Fang's similar fate of being locked in this classic-era jail.

Problem is that the world isn't fleshed out as it should, we know Sonic & Co. live in Mobius but we never see any of it and Eggman seems to be only problem they have over there.

The other part of the problem is that Eggman wants total OC death/enslavement so it's hard to come up with a character that would team up with him other than an eldritch being that doesn't talk and just follows orders until it's time to hijack the plot.

As Lawgiver said yeah it's Earth, but my argument was also leaning more into other villains or factions doing their own schemes that Sonic and co. have to thwart and not neccesarily have any involvement with Eggman that will stick around in future games.

And if they're sharing the spotlight with Eggman, I'd welcome it being a case where they both fight each other for supremacy. Imagine the Sky Troops stage from Shadow's spinoff game but between Eggman and the Battle Bird-Army instead.

 

[rareblacklobster]

If you played the games you'd know sonic lives on earth. Mobius was just early US/UK localization shit that only really showed up in the DiC cartoons (and archie/fleetway)

Mobius is just the name for post-apocolyptic Earth. It was always only Earth.

 

[The Lawgiver]

Mobius is just the name for post-apocolyptic Earth. It was always only Earth.

It was originally framed as an alien planet but around the time comics started shifting more into the actual games slightly they pulled out the post apocalyptic earth thing. IIRC the SATAM DiC cartoon's canned second season was going to have that as a plot point too. Bizzarely the OVA movie's lore is also post apocalyptic earth (not mentioned but shown with the 90s NYC ruins next to robotnik's base) but it's not called mobius and there's still mostly humans aside from sonic and his group of friends.

Difference in the games is it's just earth and not a post apocalyptic earth or an alien planet that looks like earth.

 

[Squawking Macaw]

They also didn't hype up infinite having any kind of secret identity as far as I remember but he was kind of implied to have a bit more backstory than just being some nobody thug hired by eggman to defend his base getting his ass beat by some other guy that called him weak. Him being an overcompensating weak thug that has to rely on eggman's stuff to try and prove himself is a cool extra antagonist side character idea.

What I find REALLY odd about infinite is shit saying he died after being defeated in forces when you blatantly see him just get teleported away by eggman so he can deal with sonic himself, not die in the last cutscene he shows up in.

Infinite's messy backstory and death probably come from the fact that his origin was heavily rewritten late into development. Sega forgot to scrub all mentions of him being created by Eggman. Every once in a while a character will say a line indicating that Infinite was meant to be an artificial being:

Episode Shadow retconned Infinite's backstory at the last possible minute and that left some loose ends untied, most obviously how he doesn't even care about Shadow's existence after Episode Shadow when it was him who caused his tardrage in the first place. About his death, I personally interpreted it as him being absorbed into the Phantom Ruby to power the Death Egg Robot, but I agree that it's weird how he just vanishes never to be seen or heard from again. I kept hoping he would be the final boss instead of Nega Wisp Armor Rehash #2.

On one hand, I'm glad that he's not just another of Eggman's creations as those are dime a dozen, on the other hand, throwing a shitfit over being called weak is a pretty pathetic backstory for a villain we're meant to take seriously.

My point is that instead of fleshing out the world where Sonic lives, the plots seem to take place elsewhere and they talk about THAT world instead of the one they should be talking.

What's there to do in Sonic's Earth? Are there banks to rob, do any OC in it wants to steal the emeralds or anything? You'd think they live in a permanent state of peace until Eggman decides to do something.

I'd even argue that Eggman is more of a protagonist than Sonic at this point becuase everything that has ever happened in the series is more or less thanks to him.

That's another thing Sonic could learn from Mario. The Mushroom Kingdom is simple but it's a very clear setting. It's visually cohesive and has a fair bit of development, I'd even say it's as recognizable as the characters who inhabit it. (It still falls into the trap of being a utopia until Bowser gets the hots for Peach, but that's besides the point)

Meanwhile, Sonic inhabits whatever world the plot needs him to: A floating island. Green Hill. Earth. "Mobius". A world of furries with the very rare human. A normal-ish world with no furries aside from the Sonic cast. A world where furries and humans live together in harmony. All of these have been depicted as Sonic's home at some point. This series' worldbuilding is a hot mess. It doesn't even need autistic fantasy worldbuilding, just some consistency on the world where it takes place, please.

 

[The Lawgiver]

About his death, I personally interpreted it as him being absorbed into the Phantom Ruby to power the Death Egg Robot, but I agree that it's weird how he just vanishes never to be seen or heard from again. I kept hoping he would be the final boss instead of Nega Wisp Armor Rehash #2.

He doesn't even die in the game, look at the cutscene, he's physcally ejected from the location by eggman back to headquarters and gets frustrated over it before doing so. They just shrug over it too like nothing serious happened.

Fuck it doesnt feel like 8 years, nothing ever happens the last 10 years, eh?

 

[Squawking Macaw]

He doesn't even die in the game, look at the cutscene, he's physcally ejected from the location by eggman back to headquarters and gets frustrated over it before doing so. They just shrug over it too like nothing serious happened.

Fuck it doesnt feel like 8 years, nothing ever happens the last 10 years, eh?

I interpreted it less as "is ejected back to headquarters and gets frustrated over it" and more as "is being erased from existence and is desperately trying to tell Eggman he can still be useful to him". The fact he hasn't been seen since, not just in Forces but in the franchise as a whole, means we were meant to see it as a death, even though it's anticlimactic, doesn't seem like a death, and just receives a shrug from the other characters.

And now I feel old, I swear 2017 wasn't that long ago lol.

 

[Mr. 0]

this thread sucks and is now about EXISTENTIALISM

PART TWO FOLKS

---

Also Sega Retro has a new interview with Brenda Cook (nee Ross) who worked on Sonic the Hedgehog 2 back in the 90s:

https://segaretro.org/Interview:%20Brenda%20Cook%20(2025-03-10)%20by%20Alexander%20Rojas

 

[The Lawgiver]

I interpreted it less as "is ejected back to headquarters and gets frustrated over it" and more as "is being erased from existence and is desperately trying to tell Eggman he can still be useful to him". The fact he hasn't been seen since, not just in Forces but in the franchise as a whole, means we were meant to see it as a death, even though it's anticlimactic, doesn't seem like a death, and just receives a shrug from the other characters.

Ok but that neglects the fact you see him get sucked via vwoop warp beam back to eggman's base in the background.

 

[Newcomer 42]

Just a shame that she got ruined just as quickly and is now mainly just used as woke lesbian ship fuel with emo Sniper Wolf.

The literal sniper wolf could have worked, if she wasn't literally and figuratively pushed into being the dumb, ugly lemur's lesbo-partner. The issue is that IDW's writing is subpar and not good enough for her concept to work, doubly-so because the main cast is static while everyone else doesn't, so that creates an obvious disconnect where OCs can have emotions and losses, while the main cast shrugs off everything. Eggman seemingly brutalizes Dr. Stardline with ease... And then goes back to jobbing immediately.

The issue from my perspective is that they need to either bring back the likes of the Battle-Bird Armada/the Witchcart Gang or come up with different antagonist factions besides Eggman and his robots that both have entertaining personalities and don't get axed off or turn good at the end. Deadly Shits are not the way to go in my opinion.

That would require actual thought, not sure if Flynn could do that without 121 references. Also, the first two are Tails' enemies, and Tails hasn't been the protagonist in decades.
The derply six are seemingly retconned into being around because of the small cast I mentioned before.

Problem is that the world isn't fleshed out as it should, we know Sonic & Co. live in Mobius but we never see any of it and Eggman seems to be only problem they have over there.

That seems to be the thing, kek. At least Sonic Satam implied the critters could get into war with each other.

What's there to do in Sonic's Earth? Are there banks to rob, do any OC in it wants to steal the emeralds or anything? You'd think they live in a permanent state of peace until Eggman decides to do something.

Fang I believe hunts the emeralds at times, but that's it. I wonder why Team Sonic has been quiet about humans being around or not since Unleashed. It would have given the worldbuilding more things to play with.

Mobius is just the name for post-apocolyptic Earth. It was always only Earth.

Funny how Eggman's total domination OR post-apoc Earth are the logical conclusions of the setting.

On one hand, I'm glad that he's not just another of Eggman's creations as those are dime a dozen, on the other hand, throwing a shitfit over being called weak is a pretty pathetic backstory for a villain we're meant to take seriously.

I wasn't aware Infie was formerly a robot that was retconned at the last second. I did like that his team was killed by Shadow and went mad from that (and wears a mask because he likes it). It's luzly that Shadow could kill these literal no-name mooks and no-one give a damn. With better writing, someone could have called out Shadow for having created Infie for killing his friends... But Forces doesn't have that.

That's another thing Sonic could learn from Mario. The Mushroom Kingdom is simple but it's a very clear setting. It's visually cohesive and has a fair bit of development, I'd even say it's as recognizable as the characters who inhabit it. (It still falls into the trap of being a utopia until Bowser gets the hots for Peach, but that's besides the point)

The Mushroom Kingdom has more enemies than Bowser, at least. And dozens of RPGs that flesh out the setting and provide tons of things to do for the protagonists (even if they are mostly ignored).

And now I feel old, I swear 2017 wasn't that long ago lol.

It's odd how there wasn't a mainline game until Frontiers.

Ok but that neglects the fact you see him get sucked via vwoop warp beam back to eggman's base in the background.

Infie's canon end is being stuck inside the magic rock, I suppose he was beamed into the rock's generator. But yeah, he was a wasted villain, but then again he had little to do once the magic gem of the week was destroyed.

 

[The Lawgiver]

I wasn't aware Infie was formerly a robot that was retconned at the last second.

Pretty sure a test tube baby isn't exactly a robot.

 

[Newcomer 42]

Pretty sure a test tube baby isn't exactly a robot.

Eggman works with robots most of the time, and Sonic even mentions a mecha, so I thought Infie was a robot. Back then I didn't even think these linse were in reference to Infie being an artificial being but rather mistranslation or a scrapped plot that went nowhere. I mean, everyone broke character here and the writing was a mess, with Knucks being the commander of the resistance despite having 0% skill at leading anything, Amy being around doing little, Tails becoming a complete coward, Eggman torturing Sonic for months instead of finishing him off immediately...
Shame the "create your own OC!" idea was shelved and forgotten about.