William James Mitchell vs. Twin Galaxies LLC, Jeff Harrist & Jeremy Young & donkeykongforum.com, Benjamin Q Smith

[Solid Snek]

I see a lot of people don't know the story of ApolloLegend, who he named or why so I tried my best to write out what I remember.

(A)

Thanks for this, it's genuinely helpful.

I'm passingly familiar with most of the people involved in this story - I saw ApolloLegend's vids back when he was still alive, I've seen Jobst's videos before but don't follow him closely, and of course I know who Billy Mitchell is, but haven't read up on him in several years. I was aware that Apollo died, and IIRC I had also heard about the Mitchell/Jobst lawsuit, and like almost everyone, was under the impression that the lawsuit was over his cheating allegations. I even think I'd heard that Apollo had killed himself at least partially due to finances and his Billy problems (both of which are apparently false), although I'm not sure if Jobst led me to believe this or if it was some other sperg. I was NOT aware that Apollo blamed his friends stabbing him in the back or any of the stuff you mention in the post above, although given what I've seen from the speedrunning community, that isn't exactly surprising.

Ironically, it's a little hard to find info on this story now, since the story has blown up so quickly and it can be difficult for an outsider to sort through the fast-moving community drama and (badly presented) Hot Takes from the influencer crowd. Which is a shame, because the more that I learn, the more fucked up it gets, and having all the relevant info in one place would be a huge help.

I don't think Jobst has a thread, although from what I'm hearing (trannies, grifting, lying about a suicide to help cover GDQ friends for some weird Byuu-drama, hell even just losing a lawsuit to Billy Fucking Mitchell) he may warrant one; would it be worth making an entire thread on Jobst?

And if so, would anyone be willing to write up an OP, with some solid info, so that out of touch normies like me can get up to speed on the knight whose lance broke against the Mitchell dragon?

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

I am now fully convinced the reason why Karl refused any sort of settlement and did a half-assed retraction was because the whole point of the videos was to wash off the suicide of apollo from him and his friends hands and pin it all on Billy who was the only person not named in the suicide note.
What a macabre twist of events holy shit

Karl's defense seems to have been that Mitchell's reputation was already so bad from being a cheater that his defamation about causing the suicide could not have possibly made it worse. It may be that Karl put out two dozen more videos about how scummy Billy is for cheating after being sued in an attempt to validate the argument.

 

[Local Wordmason]

Yeah tbh I didn't realize Billy came from a wealthy family but it makes sense I guess. It tracks for someone that got famous for their skill at video games. You don't need to worry about developing real skills growing up, when you don't need to worry about money.

 

[FamicomGorby]

You don't need to worry about developing real skills growing up, when you don't need to worry about money.

I think he's a good businessman, or at least he hasn't driven his restaurants into the ground. But the reason he got good was cause he had the keys to the DK machine in his family's restaurant so could play for free.

 

[FILTH Tourist]

I'm getting a little lost on the back and forth, correct me if I am wrong on this summary of the cheating scandal.

• Billy is an actually good gamer who set legit records in the 80s and 90s.
• He was a major supporter of twin galaxies, who handle record keeping of high scores of retro games.
• Some of his later records was set on a machine with non original parts and Billy entered the score under the original cabinet category, and his support of TG lead them to help cover it up.
• This got uncovered and has caused decades worth of tard rage ever since due to the scandal and Billy's many lolsuits that followed.

 

[Finger Pistols]

He disabled comments.

I don't know what's worse. Killing yourself over whatever this crybaby soyfaced australian has to say. The same guy that cries over loosing an Among Us game.

Or defending him by lying that another guy caused Apollo's suicide and loosing all of your income for the rest of your life.

Whenever I see him pop up it's for saying or doing the dumbest shit imaginable totally umprompted.

• He compared reaction content to rape over 14 PAGES in a Destiny-esque document.
• He sucked Linus Tech Tips off on Louis Rossmann's comments section on his Gamer Nexus V Linus Tech Tips video.
• He thinks he knows copyright law better than lawyers because he studied it (read the wikipedia article).

There is even more. I recommend looking at his thread:

Ahhh, I forgot about the DarkViper Kill Count! Looking forward to seeing this more fleshed out, this dude is a nutcase lmao

The Matthew Craig Judge kill count has been a known fact that he seethes about to this day
I thought the lawsuit was about the cheated records and not Apollo's suicide. Everyone knows that Matthew Craig Judge is guiltier than Billy Mitchel for that. Since Matthew was directly named by Apollo for pushing him over the edge.

 

[urr13 account]

It may be that Karl put out two dozen more videos about how scummy Billy is for cheating after being sued in an attempt to validate the argument.

Also probably a way to try to psyche Mitchell out hoping it would lead to him dropping the lawsuit, jobst repeatedly trying to publicly humiliate Mitchell as much as possible and keep people thinking the lawsuit is all over cheating in a mario game.

The MATI segment.
https://rumble.com/v4hr1fi-2021-mad-at-the-internet-january-1st-2021.html?start=5091

This is extremely pathetic and highly embarrassing, are there any videos of Billy Mitchell crying like he has special needs like this over his mario score because if not this is another Billy Mitchell W in that he is less pathetic than Jobst when it comes to videogames.

 

[Gobermental Supervisor]

Karl's defense seems to have been that Mitchell's reputation was already so bad from being a cheater that his defamation about causing the suicide could not have possibly made it worse. It may be that Karl put out two dozen more videos about how scummy Billy is for cheating after being sued in an attempt to validate the argument.

His defense was pretty much this: "I have no proof for what I said, I just thought it made sense, also Billy cheated at Donkey Kong so he is a bad human!"

 

[FILTH Tourist]

This is extremely pathetic and highly embarrassing, are there any videos of Billy Mitchell crying like he has special needs like this over his mario score because if not this is another Billy Mitchell W in that he is less pathetic than Jobst when it comes to videogames.

The most off putting thing about that video was his wife's reaction trying to comfort him like she is his mom. Does he cry often?

 

[Seedling]

His defense was pretty much this: "I have no proof for what I said, I just thought it made sense, also Billy cheated at Donkey Kong so he is a bad human!"

Pretty bold move to run an entire defense on "vibes"

 

[Local Wordmason]

I think he's a good businessman, or at least he hasn't driven his restaurants into the ground.

95% of being a "good businessman" is hiring the right people to run your business so you don't have to do shit but collect a paycheck.

But the reason he got good was cause he had the keys to the DK machine in his family's restaurant so could play for free.

Literally owning a DK machine growing and that being the reason why you're good is such a cartoon villain origin.

 

[Spooky Dogwood]

• Some of his later records was set on a machine with non original parts and Billy entered the score under the original cabinet category, and his support of TG lead them to help cover it up.

Going from memory again: I think it's more like the only footage we have of his gameplay is using MAME, but the joy stick on the machine he claimed to use would have disqualified his score regardless. Overall the problem is a lack of proof for his records, while claiming that they were certified by a judge in front of a live audience.

 

[FamicomGorby]

I'm getting a little lost on the back and forth, correct me if I am wrong on this summary of the cheating scandal.

• Billy is an actually good gamer who set legit records in the 80s and 90s.
• He was a major supporter of twin galaxies, who handle record keeping of high scores of retro games.
• Some of his later records was set on a machine with non original parts and Billy entered the score under the original cabinet category, and his support of TG lead them to help cover it up.
• This got uncovered and has caused decades worth of tard rage ever since due to the scandal and Billy's many lolsuits that followed.

That about sums it up, just that the records that Billy submitted were all on video tape with with either no witnesses or extremely untrustworthy witnesses. And those tapes show gameplay that was clearly done on an emulator, not an original arcade PCB.

It is also important to remember that while Billy got a win here, he's had a lot of L's in the past. Like suing Cartoon Network, various lawsuit threats he never followed up on, the Twin Galaxies lawsuit where he ultimately settled, and a case where he went to the Florida supreme court after a friend of his leaked a phone call where Billy laid out his plan to do an extremely dumb gayop on the retro gaming community.

Going from memory again: I think it's more like the only footage we have of his gameplay is using MAME, but the joy stick on the machine he claimed to use would have disqualified his score regardless. Overall the problem is a lack of proof for his records, while claiming that they were certified by a judge in front of a live audience.

That score is the Mortgage Broker's Convention score where there's a bit more going on. Basically Billy was invited to a mortgage broker's convention that was having an 80's theme so he could do a live high score performance. From the evidence available though the machine he was playing on had no video recording setup installed in it, according to the person that setup the machine and put the PCB inside of it. The video tape that Billy submitted of that score was clearly done on MAME. The convention organizer testified that Billy only played there for about twenty minutes which would not have been anywhere near enough time to get the high score. Then to top it all off the machine there had an eight way joystick installed, which would have made it ineligible even if he had gotten the score there.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

Also probably a way to try to psyche Mitchell out hoping it would lead to him dropping the lawsuit, jobst repeatedly trying to publicly humiliate Mitchell as much as possible and keep people thinking the lawsuit is all over cheating in a mario game.

If so that's the most retarded strategy Karl could've chosen with how vindictive and lawfare-happy Billy Mitchell is. I don't think even Karl is dumb enough to think that would work. Billy Mitchell is totally shameless.

 

[demicolon]

I am now fully convinced the reason why Karl refused any sort of settlement and did a half-assed retraction was because the whole point of the videos was to wash off the suicide of apollo from him and his friends hands and pin it all on Billy who was the only person not named in the suicide note.

I wonder if he got the any% WR of realizing that siding with trannies is a bad idea the moment he heard the verdict.

 

[Gobermental Supervisor]

Pretty bold move to run an entire defense on "vibes"

Yep, which is why I could not understand how the judge was ruling in Billy's favor until I read the actual written judgement and found out that Karl is a fucking retard.
This should have never gotten to trial. Who would actually go to court with a defense of "I still believe what I said even if I have no proof for it." ????

Utter retardation. I fully expected Karl to have proof or information he believed credible at the time to justify the statements. Until I read what the judge wrote and learned he had none of that. He literally had NO DEFENSE for the false statements made.

I falsely believed Karl to be an intelligent sapient human being who would not run laughing and bragging into his own financial demise.

 

[urr13 account]

I don't think even Karl is dumb enough to think that would work.

He's a guy who replays videogames over and over again to try and do it slightly faster each time, not exactly a Rhode scholar.

 

[Spooky Dogwood]

If so that's the most retarded strategy Karl could've chosen with how vindictive and lawfare-happy Billy Mitchell is. I don't think even Karl is dumb enough to think that would work. Billy Mitchell is totally shameless.

Must have hired Robert Barnes.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

Pretty bold move to run an entire defense on "vibes"

That's pretty much every defense for defamation: whether a reasonable person could conclude something is true instead of inventing it out of malice. On Karl's planet the worst crime a person could possibly commit is cheating on a video game so for him a reasonable person could also assume he caused another man's suicide based on that.

 

[Gobermental Supervisor]

That's pretty much every defense for defamation: whether a reasonable person could conclude something is true instead of inventing it out of malice. On Karl's planet the worst crime a person can commit is cheating on a video game so for him a reasonable person should also assume he caused another man's suicide based on that.

He concluded Billy got paid money, claimed so in his video, was told that was not true by Billy, Keemstar and Billy's lawyer, claimed he would only re-upload the video if he had solid proof, uploaded it again.

He had no solid proof for the claim that Billy received money as part of the settlement. AFAIK the Australian judge could read that settlement, it is mentioned in the ruling, and found that Billy was not paid money by Apollo Legend and the ONLY reason why Apollo would ever be forced to do so was if he violated the settlement agreement.

The point at which Karl is told "that is untrue", is where he should have thrown himself on the ground and kowtowed to Billy begging to not get assraped in court.
Because Karl KNEW that he had no foundation for his claim, he knew he would lose in court, and then he lied about it to his viewers to make money from both videos and a GoFundme for legal cost.

Karl has insisted on that lie being the truth for nearly 3 years. He deserves the loss and he deserves to lose his viewership. His credibility is done for. He needs to go find a job at McDonalds or as a hot-sauce salesman for Billy to pay off his debt.

[EDIT] And I am upset I ever believed that storyline, because it appears there is information out there that puts a lot of things in question and suggests that other people, previous friends of Apollo, might have played a much bigger role than Billy ever did. But Karl and the other Drama Tubers did not cover that information.