US US Politics General 2 - Discussion of President Trump and other politicians

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Should be a wild four years.

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NO MY NUMBER MUST GO UP NOW NOW NOW

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Remember, all of this is the fault of the boomers promising themselves that they would have exorbitant lives of luxury and fuck them kids, they can just pull themselves up by the bootstraps like they did.
(Said boomers then sold said bootstraps for $5 to the Chinese and then wasted it all on a trip to Vegas.)

But it doesn't matter, because the boomers WERE promised to live lives of unparalleled luxury forever, even though the boomers promised the boomers that lifestyle, they WILL demand that we all uphold the promise, that the line will forever go up, even if that means you have to live in bugman hives competing with a bunch of stupid smelly Pajeets for who will work the hardest for the least amount of pay, all so your neighbor's grandparents can go on worldwide cruises 2-3 times a year for the rest of their lives while sitting on 3 houses they won't leave their children (and have already reverse mortgaged so they'd have more money to play with).

I once heard the observation that eventually, even though corporations are intentionally retarding the development of culture (pop culture and otherwise) because the current culture is "safe" and they know how to sell it, that someday people are just not going to give a shit about 80s and 90s movies, comics, cartoons, etc anymore -- and when that happens, the Gen Xers and Millennials are going to come absolutely fucking unglued.

I have to wonder if we're about to hit the same kind of point with the Boomers. "WE don't GIVE a shit about your fucking line going up, I had an advertisement to finance a fucking burrito yesterday on my phone and I refuse to live like this so you can go on yet another cross country trip."

(For real fun, imagine when we as a culture reach this point with Israel.)
 
There's a lot more than just finished consumer goods imported from China. You can't just flip a switch and reroute supply chains or expand domestic production, it takes time and investment as well as the labor force to make it possible.

Telling people to just shut up and suffer is a great way to cause massive civil unrest and political backlash. Why should the poor and middle classes suffer while the wealthy got away with the largest upward transfer of wealth in history? Why are we raising taxes on them and not the wealthiest Americans?
it does take time and investment to make it happen. which is why trump has been saying that, and why we're saying that we're all okay with it taking time and investment. i agree that the poor shouldn't suffer while the wealthy get wealthier, which is why it's funny for people to say in one breath "This is only going to benefit the wealthy!" and in the other breath, say "The people who own the vast majority of stock, the wealthy, are going to suffer massively from these tariffs!"
there is cognitive dissonance that multiple people trying to engage on this from the pro-stock market point of view just cannot seem to grasp; most people are not going to see price increases from the tariffs in the way you believe they will and as you yourself say, it will take time and investment and the US labor force to make it possible.

nothing that trump is doing now was going to be an easy thing to do. no one claimed it would be. at the very least i and many others in the thread have said that we understand things might have a small price increase, we understand why, and we understand the purpose of it. no one is trying to say tariffs are a perfect solution. there is no perfect solution, but the other option is to continue doing nothing, let 'line go up', and median incomes continue to suffer from inflation, and do nothing about it. so far, no one in the thread has even proposed any solution to the middle class and lower class's wage issues, it's all about the stocks and how it affects "me me me" in the case of these stockbrained morons. "i want line to go up forever, fuck all the poors who suffer because of chinese scam bullshit, fuck all the farmers who have to have subsidies because we import different foods." it's just retarded to think that the lowest classes will suffer when it is demonstrably the highest class who is suffering right now.
 
the dumbest people in the thread are also freaking out. one guy has literally said "maybe if you weren't so poor you'd understand economics better." and HHH had the incredible take of "just tax businesses at 90%, they'll never leave." as well as "they won't pass any cost increases from corporate taxation increases onto the consumer through price hikes or new fees, but they will from tariffs!" even though corporations have demonstrably increased cost for customers at ANY increase in the cost of doing business at all. any excuse is a good one.
This is one of those things where, if the public had any understanding of economics at all (and more importantly, a willingness/humility to actually listen) they’d get it. A change in the cost of production is always partially passed along. Partially. For that to not be the case the producer or consumer has to be literally unable to change their own level of production/consumption.
 
I don't agree. We're already paying out the ass in groceries
Are you really incapable of figuring out how paying 25% more for everything, with wages staying the same, is going to hurt?
For the last four years, I've been told that the economy was all sunshine and blowjobs, and that I was just hallucinating my grocery bill doubling in size. We we even gaslight that inflation is a good thing, and that we damn dirty peasants didn't appreciate the shit being served on our plates.

NOW the Experts™️ care about inflation and the kitchen tables of the peons?
Of course they don't. They just want something to blame on Bad Orange Man.

The Weimarican Dollar is a fact of life now. What's a little more from tariffs? Can't hurt me, I'm already in incurable pain.
If you really wanted to fix the shit that Trump was saying he wanted to fix, increase corporate tax rates to what they were in the 50s
Good luck. The ship for that sailed decades ago. Even the most progressive of electable Democrats are slaves to Big Business.
 
This is one of those things where, if the public had any understanding of economics at all (and more importantly, a willingness/humility to actually listen) they’d get it. A change in the cost of production is always partially passed along. Partially. For that to not be the case the producer or consumer has to be literally unable to change their own level of production/consumption.
it's obvious that you can see these people like spinning marlboro man do not actually understand economics, and are just pretending to have any knowledge of the situation at all, because the guy was agreeing yesterday that tariffs are just 'worse subsidies'. they literally do not understand the very basic concepts we're discussing in the thread, and they think they do. dunning-kruger is probably at its absolute peak in this thread, across the whole site. people become sudden experts in shit they have NO idea about.

are statistics about black crime bullshit?
yes, they're obviously much higher but a lot of black crime simply isn't reported at all, especially in bughives like LA, SA, DC, and NYC.
 
Thank you for the attempt. This is an argument agaisnt tariffs generally. I don't agree with it nor do I think the projection at the end is likely to happen. None of this answered my question. Why is it OK for the world to tariff America but not ok for America to tariff the world. Presumably all of the negatives you've just laid out apply to the other countries that have tariffs on American goods and yet they clearly have tariffs in place. The effects you are talking about have not happened in Europe where you can get the same bottle of French wine for more than a third of the price lower in the states.
What I'm getting at is you have to evaluate the costs and benefits of the approach, tariffs can be a useful tool to level the playing field, but they can also be very destructive if used the wrong way. If you move too quickly, you create disruptions and unnecessary economic hardship when it could be managed more gradually to get to the same place.

Especially since we don't have the infrastructure or resources yet to mitigate the negative effects this will have on US exports as a result of retaliatory measures on such a large scale.

Start with the worst abuses first (China) and those involving hostile nations (again China), and then work down the list.
 
it's obvious that you can see these people like spinning marlboro man do not actually understand economics, and are just pretending to have any knowledge of the situation at all, because the guy was agreeing yesterday that tariffs are just 'worse subsidies'. they literally do not understand the very basic concepts we're discussing in the thread, and they think they do. dunning-kruger is probably at its absolute peak in this thread, across the whole site. people become sudden experts in shit they have NO idea about.


yes, they're obviously much higher but a lot of black crime simply isn't reported at all, especially in bughives like LA, SA, DC, and NYC.
Nigger yesterday you were trying to argue that losing $4000 in gold is somehow better than losing $4000 in stocks because it's heckin physical or something and that somehow makes the $4000 different.
 
they can also be very destructive if used the wrong way.
they can, which is why it's frustrating that you aren't opening your eyes and looking at reality. multiple countries dropped tariffs to 0 IMMEDIATELY. canada came to the negotiation table after saber rattling for a month. multiple countries with already-reciprocal rates won't see increases. this is why people think you guys are dumb. this is literally already happening, and you are simply ignoring the reality of the matter to screech about something that i cannot even fathom anymore. most countries in the world do not have the ability to seriously harm the US with trade like this, which is why countries like mexico and canada back down, arguably some of the most effective at this.

and if you think china doesn't have massive economic barriers to entry for US citizens that aren't present for chinese citizens, you legitimately do not know what it looks like to live in china as laowai.
 
Especially since we don't have the infrastructure or resources yet to mitigate the negative effects this will have on US exports as a result of retaliatory measures on such a large scale.
The necessary infrastructure and resources won't have any incentive to come about without this, however. I don't believe there is a gradual way to go about this, in the end.
 
We both know that was a very intentional attack. If you're such a retard you think that the Israelis couldn't tell that was an American ship you're dumber than an Iranian.
all i know is having read multiple books about it and reading the original documents plus the wider context of the war. The theory that retards like you have is that Israel did it intentionally to bring in the US to fight Egypt but the Egyptian army was already routed by the time the USS liberty was attacked and the Sinai was captured. The Egypt front was done.

have a tiny bit of self awareness and question why you're crying about a US ship getting attacked 58 years ago but are ignoring active attacks on US ships now. The Houthi who's slogan is literally death to America just fired missiles at the USS truman and you're sucking them off.

You said it was Iran lol Now the goalpost has changed and it's proxy groups.
I never said it was iran directly, I said it was iranian sponsored groups. read carefully and try to sound out the words if it's hard to comprehend.

No, I really don't feel bad. They were soldiers on active duty and that's unfortunately part of what happens in that field.
>Israel accidentally kills US soldiers on active duty

cry and bitch 58 years later despite tens of millions of dollars and an apology

>Iranian sponsored proxies who literally have the goal of killing Americans kill US soldiers on active duty and are firing on US ships right now

look it's part of the job, sometimes iran just has to instruct its proxies to kill US soldiers in order to fulfill their national interest

you're a doublethinking thirdworldist nigger
 
they can, which is why it's frustrating that you aren't opening your eyes and looking at reality. multiple countries dropped tariffs to 0 IMMEDIATELY. canada came to the negotiation table after saber rattling for a month. multiple countries with already-reciprocal rates won't see increases. this is why people think you guys are dumb. this is literally already happening, and you are simply ignoring the reality of the matter to screech about something that i cannot even fathom anymore. most countries in the world do not have the ability to seriously harm the US with trade like this, which is why countries like mexico and canada back down, arguably some of the most effective at this.

and if you think china doesn't have massive economic barriers to entry for US citizens that aren't present for chinese citizens, you legitimately do not know what it looks like to live in china as laowai.
Nothing else to really say right now other than we'll have to wait and see.
 
What I'm getting at is you have to evaluate the costs and benefits of the approach, tariffs can be a useful tool but they can also be very destructive if used the wrong way. The US economic and financial systems are set up based upon existing trade and financial structures and it takes time to realign those. If you move too quickly, you create disruptions and unnecessary economic hardship when it could be managed more gradually to get to the same place.
That's fair, and again thank you for answering the question. I would posit that the major reason Trump waited until April second to implement these tariffs despite campaigning on them was precisely to give corporations a bit of time to prepare. He also has said to everyone that there will be an adjustment period so people are prepared for the hurt. His supporters appear to get it.
Especially since we don't have the infrastructure or resources yet to mitigate the negative effects this will have on US exports as a result of retaliatory measures on such a large scale.
If you are at a trade deficit it is not possible for the retaliatory measures to hurt you mathematically. This already happened with China during the first term. We saw it so I'm not sure how this is still a question. If I give you $5 and you give me $10 the moment we stop trading you are automatically in a better financial situation. That is America's trade situation with the world. Stopping all trade necessarily, mathematically can only increase GDP which is the hill the anti tariff people are dying on.
Start with the worst abuses first (China) and those involving hostile nations (again China), and then work down the list.
Or you rip the bandaid off and do the new CEO move and make drastic changes at the start when you have the most momentum. You can disagree with the implementation but people who do things tend to do them and work out the kinks later.
 
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