Legend of Zelda thread - Lorefags GTFO!

I finally beat Echoes of Wisdom for the first time. This game is everything BotW and TotK were trying to be. The echoes are an ideal mechanism for allowing the player to do most things in any order. If a dungeon area has a gimmick, the relevant object or enemy can be included. The complexity in this system means that none of the puzzles suffered like they do in BotW and TotK either, as I was surprised by the number of solutions that could be used to solve them. Sure, the game was a little easy, none of the puzzles were difficult, and I wasn't pleased with the amount of chests that only had money in them, but this was a great game.
 
It's a bit of a schizo take, but I kinda feel that this is part of a push to make BotW and TotK games the definitive Zelda games, at least for the foreseeable future. This would be in line with BotW being essentially a complete reboot of the series. I mean, was anyone really clamoring for more TotK-related content?
Nah, they are just trying to ride the most recent entries. If I am not mistaken Hyrule Warriors AOC was the best selling Warriors game of the Nintendo ones.

Also, to disprove it, Koei also did this with Fire Emblem. They made a sudo-crossover title than the next one was solely based around Three Houses as recent entry bias. Next FE game after was literally a dick-riding session of all previous entires.
 
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I finally beat Echoes of Wisdom for the first time. This game is everything BotW and TotK were trying to be. The echoes are an ideal mechanism for allowing the player to do most things in any order. If a dungeon area has a gimmick, the relevant object or enemy can be included. The complexity in this system means that none of the puzzles suffered like they do in BotW and TotK either, as I was surprised by the number of solutions that could be used to solve them. Sure, the game was a little easy, none of the puzzles were difficult, and I wasn't pleased with the amount of chests that only had money in them, but this was a great game.
Really? I felt that through the majority of the game, I just mainly relied on spiders, water cubes, and beds, and pretty much nothing else.
 
I finally beat Echoes of Wisdom for the first time. This game is everything BotW and TotK were trying to be. The echoes are an ideal mechanism for allowing the player to do most things in any order. If a dungeon area has a gimmick, the relevant object or enemy can be included. The complexity in this system means that none of the puzzles suffered like they do in BotW and TotK either, as I was surprised by the number of solutions that could be used to solve them. Sure, the game was a little easy, none of the puzzles were difficult, and I wasn't pleased with the amount of chests that only had money in them, but this was a great game.
How was the music? BotW's was a letdown.
 
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Really? I felt that through the majority of the game, I just mainly relied on spiders, water cubes, and beds, and pretty much nothing else.
I relied on a common core of enemies and items too, but I experimented a little, and unlike BotW and TotK I actually want to finish the game completely and then play it from scratch again. I'll use all the stuff I didn't use the first time around.
How was the music? BotW's was a letdown.
I think it was adequate. The reason I'm not calling it good is because none of it seems to have stuck with me, but maybe that will change on another play through.
 
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Oh yeah, I never woulda thought that my favourite interation of Link would end up being the one that talks but I ain’t complaining as much as I thought I’d be lol.
My favorite Link is Wind Waker and he has so much personality it's about the only thing he doesn't do. One of the things I hate the most about BOTW and Tears is that their Link is the most plank of boring wood he has ever been, unless you count cooking animations, the guy has zero social graces whatsoever.

If I'm not even going to get to name the guy going forward and we are stuck with dogshit awful VAs, courtesy the retards of Nintendo Treehouse, then they might as well just bite the bullet and give him a voice in the next game.
Well, I picked TotK back up after a few months and my verdict is that it's not only the worst 3D Zelda, it's also the first one that I don’t like.
It basically killed any interest I had in the franchise going forward. Reusing the same map, same mechanics, same general ideas, Nintendo still took half a decade to shit this thing out and capitalized on zero potential that a sequel to Breath with liberal asset reuse could have allowed.
 
Tears is actually unforgivable when you consider:
- How long it took to make (4x longer than Majora's Mask).
- How little it actually changed (blue became green. Now go collect those collectables you gaming plebs!).
- How barren the new areas are.​
- How much it got to reuse for free (more than even Majora's Mask, which created a brand new world/gameplay dynamic and gave the characters from OoT actual personalities) and how little it did with that generational priviledge.
- How much it destroyed the lore in just the re-booted universe alone, which is hilarious to me (Hyrule was now created by a furfag version of Rauru and his Negress Elf race traitor waifu - Holy Fuck Nintendo, what retard semite shit were you forced to drink?).
- How little twink Link actually participates in the "story" (AGAIN, they didn't learn their lesson after BOTW had no plot initiative whatsoever).
- How under-developed the """relationship""" between twink Link and failure Zelda remains after 6+ years.

The list actually goes on and on, and thankfully Tears shitting the bed so hard finally woke some people up to the fact that BOTW itself is supremely lacking, it's only claim being the best selling Zelda game on the best selling Nintendo console. NuZelda simply has no foundation, it sacrificed almost everything that made the Zelda series what it was for over 30 years, intentionally so, and it did it all just to court the aged Ubisoft Dream... It felt off right from the start imo, even moreso than Skyward Sword introducing the reincarnation retcon and the goddess Hylia herself (again, Fucking With The Foundation). It would be like J.R.R. Tolkien introducing Sauron's missing half-brother, during Return of The King. You can't just remove/introduce Gods and Goddesses on a whim into a universe that's already been established for over 3 decades.

When you got references in older Zelda games, there was typically always a purpose for it, thematic or otherwise. OoT Link isn't in TP just for a cheeky little reference to past games, he's actually a part of the story, and thematically carries the role of "passing the torch" to the next generation. Meanwhile, something like Koholint Island being in BOTW isn't there because it's connected to the story... it's there solely because REMEMBER LINK'S AWAKENING GAMERS!!?? Holy shit is it blatant in hindsight... the locations, the gear, the collectables, it's all surface level, it has no depth.

People WILL notice something is up and that your game is nothing but hollow references to the past, even if it takes them years - or just one 6-years-in-development 70$ DLC experience, which is what Tears of the Sloppy Seconds ultimately was/is. The prosecution rests your Honor.​
 
then they might as well just bite the bullet and give him a voice in the next game.
If Nintendo continues to make Zelda games (at least the big 3D ones) more cinematic and with full voices, they really need to let Link have proper characterization. Having him just silently, blankly stare at the ghosts of his friends saying their goodbyes to him is just plain awkward.
 
If Nintendo continues to make Zelda games (at least the big 3D ones) more cinematic and with full voices, they really need to let Link have proper characterization. Having him just silently, blankly stare at the ghosts of his friends saying their goodbyes to him is just plain awkward.
*a finger curls*
1743877282114.png
 
The list actually goes on and on
I'm gonna actually defend Nintendo on two counts.

I didn't feel that Hylia came out of nowhere. At least the name was established since OoT and Tatl calls upon the "Goddess of Time" in Majora's Mask. I want to say there's something else, but it escapes me right now.
What does suck is how the rest of the mythology got pretty much dropped. I can't even remember the last time the triforce or the three godesses were mentioned.

Regarding the names like Koholint island, I wouldn't read too much into it. They just had a ton of places to name, so drawing from previous games wasn't too bad of an idea. I think the member berries were just a side effect.

As a side note regarding the timeline, I've read some speculation about TotK leading into SS, thus making the timeline a loop. I don't think I would have liked that, but at least it would have been interesting.
 
Still, like 3D Sonic, 3D Zelda will still be a hard to safe crack:
-They could say "fuck it" and go Souls-like after everyone suffering genre fatigue.
-They could double down on the open world survival stuff, but putting actual dungeons this time.
-They could go the Dark Cloud route, with procedurally generated dungeons while the main objective is to rebuild a place.
-They could tone down everything and just do the OoT/WW/TP formula again with memorable scenarios and dungeons.

Funny enough, all these options feel terrible, but such is the fate of this legendary non-ARPG franchise.

My personal hunch is they are going to go back to something akin to a OoT formula but bigger world and more informed by elements of BOTW. Cooking, crafting, etc. I think they could make a OoT style world but hyper detailed with lots of dynamic NPC behavior and emergent interactions. All I know is the Dungeons need to come back in some form and the devs must hear the criticism.

I think they could squeeze one more game out of the BOTW formula by doing something like Zelda gets captured and taken to new unexplored realm. That way they can do a totally new map with new lore, features and gameplay.
 
I loved this manga if ya couldn’t tell.
I'm really glad more people are getting into it. It felt like nobody knew it existed for some years there when it first started releasing. I would've been okay with just a 1:1 retelling of the game's story, but we got much more than that...
fanservice.png

talk about "servicing the fans".
 
I think they could squeeze one more game out of the BOTW formula by doing something like Zelda gets captured and taken to new unexplored realm. That way they can do a totally new map with new lore, features and gameplay.
If we are to get another BOTW styled game, I think the best route to take would be to expand water mechanics. The Lake is a cool area in both titles, but it is largely empty, would be cool if we could swim to the depths to uncover a dungeon. Seems like such an obvious mechanic, even more so than the sky, that I am surprised they never expanded on it.
 
I like the BOTW style (it is my all time favorite video game after all) but should the next game be following in its footsteps, it does need to do more to differentiate itself.
 
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I finally beat Echoes of Wisdom for the first time. This game is everything BotW and TotK were trying to be. The echoes are an ideal mechanism for allowing the player to do most things in any order. If a dungeon area has a gimmick, the relevant object or enemy can be included. The complexity in this system means that none of the puzzles suffered like they do in BotW and TotK either, as I was surprised by the number of solutions that could be used to solve them. Sure, the game was a little easy, none of the puzzles were difficult, and I wasn't pleased with the amount of chests that only had money in them, but this was a great game.
I liked it and it's a pretty good first try at an original Zelda title for Grezzo after their remake/porting work before, but it didn't really go far enough for me. It's the type of game where a sequel would really hammer out the kinks and develop the gimmick more.
 
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I can't even remember the last time the triforce or the three godesses were mentioned.
Echoes of Wisdom brought back the Golden Goddesses.

I just find Hylia strange because she seems like she should be a minor goddess, but basically replaces the creators of the Zelda world for the most part.
 
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