Katholic Kiwi Kathedral (Catholocism General) - Byzantine? Ethnic? Roman? It doesn't matter. It's a place for Catholic Kiwis to discuss Catholicism and inquirers to inquire

[Local Farmer]

He's in the closet about it because optics (despite it being painfully obvious).

Most people around are quick to realize he's the kind of person nothing good can come out of associating with, which doesn't preclude the extreme internet exposure antics from being extremely funny. I think the lack of wisdom and the pathetic nerd disposition combine with unparalleled access to Church documents to make for quite the clown show, and him and his inner circle have made this routine of seething over random Catholic Answers stuff for quite a while now.

Definitely not looking forward to watching the damage these niche micro-celebrities cause to young people though, I hope people like Trent Horn and Akin get around mentoring younger guys, preferably without the emotional imbalances and spastic behavior of these 20 something Twitter e-theologians.

I think the main issue with a lot of these people is that they try to meet the dominant evangelical narrative of fire and brimstone and only stand their theology on purely reactionary matters to the current sociological and political matters, instead of the eternal promise of God to his people. The reason why I personally stay away from people who consider themselves to be traditionalists is because I believe they are one of the biggest perpetrators of abusing scripture, tradition, and the writings of saints. They are not charitable in their apologetics and thus fail to actually reach people who do not share their same world view.

You can’t just purity spiral your way to Jesus, you have to be charitable to some degree as well. Apologetics isn’t just about dunking on others for poorer understanding of theology, it’s opening up new understandings of God’s Kingdom to those who haven’t thought about it in such a way before, to quote Fulton Sheen, most people don’t hate the church for what it is, they hate what think the church is.

If God can have mercy on a retard like me, that mercy can also be extended to others

 

[Derrick]

At this point I'm starting to wonder if Pope Francis is just clinging to life until June 15th to spite Robert Sarah.

 

[Convallaria majalis]

What’s the thread’s general take on head coverings for women? The mantilla has been coming back “in fashion” - possibly because women aren’t having tissues pinned to their heads anymore. I had a look at some small head coverings and am considering trying it out for Easter.

 

[Amerikaner Teddybär]

At this point I'm starting to wonder if Pope Francis is just clinging to life until June 15th to spite Robert Sarah.

Robert could still become Pope even after he reaches 80, it's just he won't have the ability to vote for who gets to be the next Pope.

What’s the thread’s general take on head coverings for women? The mantilla has been coming back “in fashion” - possibly because women aren’t having tissues pinned to their heads anymore. I had a look at some small head coverings and am considering trying it out for Easter.

I think they're alright for women to wear during mass.

 

[Local Farmer]

Have a blessed Palm Sunday everybody

 

[Local Farmer]

I’m more so talking about people like Jay Dyer, Militant Thomist, Andrew Wilson Et Cetera who treat apologetics as a way to dunk on people. It not only makes a mockery of themselves, but makes a mockery of the faith itself.

Soren Kierkegaard once said that the key problem with apologetics isn’t that they lead people to God, but instead that people put the corner of their faith on one Good argument, and thus, end up worshiping apologetics and do not hold true faith. I think these people are not only a perfect example of that, but take it to the extreme by incorporating personal drama like in this video to dunk on others.

Charitable debates is one thing, but making it into a screaming match on the same level as IBS is sacrilegious

One thing I learned from this Lenten season is that I will not listen to zoomers, or online apologetics under 30 about apologetics unless they are a priest.

 

[Justice Tony]

What’s the thread’s general take on head coverings for women? The mantilla has been coming back “in fashion” - possibly because women aren’t having tissues pinned to their heads anymore. I had a look at some small head coverings and am considering trying it out for Easter.

I think they're neat. I love that my girlfriend veils. But it's not mandatory. I will say however that I have seen a relative resurgence in it in recent years.

 

[Captain Confabulator]

Next we have the Doctrinal and Theological changes

Vatican 2 was not Dogmatic. It was a purely pastoral counsel. It introduced no new dogmas.
Read that sentence again if it confuses you. Anything that you believe is a new dogma coming from Vatican 2 is a misunderstanding on your part.

Religious Freedom: The council affirmed the right to religious freedom, a significant shift from the Church's previous stance.

False. The Church has never changed its position.

III. INDIFFERENTISM, LATITUDINARIANISM

15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. — Allocution “Maxima quidem,” June 9, 1862; Damnatio “Multiplices inter,” June 10, 1851.

16. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation. — Encyclical “Qui pluribus,” Nov. 9, 1846.

- A SYLLABUS OF ERRORS
Apostolic Letter of Pope Pius IX

 

[Preacher ✝]

Anything that you believe is a new dogma coming from Vatican 2 is a misunderstanding on your part.

The only mistake here is you thinking I said anything about dogma at all.

False. The Church has never changed its position.

Why are you conflating an Apostolic letter with formal affirmation from a council? Surely you should know one carries more weight than the other.

 

[Captain Confabulator]

an Apostolic letter

It's a syllabus. A synonym for syllabus is "compendium". You'll notice that even in the two points I pasted, there are three different citations. Its purpose is to collect references to show the consistency of the Church's teachings on these topics.

I encourage you to read through the Syllabus of Errors and see how many of them you agree with. It's a litmus test for Liberalism.

 

[Preacher ✝]

I encourage you to read through the Syllabus of Errors and see how many of them you agree with. It's a litmus test for Liberalism.

I am familiar with the Syllabus of Errors, and more importantly the historical context in which it was written.

My point is that it does not carry more weight than the formal declarations of the council of Vatican II. Not only is a council a higher form of authority than a Pope who is not speaking ex cathedra, it also came 100 years after the syllabus was published. Even if you want to assign the syllabus more weight than it is due, the council has the authority to supersede it.

 

[Derrick]

Robert could still become Pope even after he reaches 80, it's just he won't have the ability to vote for who gets to be the next Pope.

I'm aware that technically any Catholic male could be made Pope, it was just my understanding (though I'm a non-Catholic so take it with a grain of salt) that the Papal Conclave will in practice only choose one of the voting cardinals (at least in recent history).

 

[A Very Big Fish]

technically any Catholic male

That's why I just need to bide my time.

And that seems to be the case, but I don't feel like Robert would be such an out of pocket pick, even if he does hit 80.
Though I am an idiot, so take that with a grain of salt.

 

[Derrick]

And that seems to be the case, but I don't feel like Robert would be such an out of pocket pick, even if he does hit 80.

Take what I say also with a grain of Salt (I'm not a Catholic) but Pope Francis has appointed more than 2/3rds of the voting age Cardinals, so his associates will have the voting power in the next election. As a result I think Robert Sarah is dead in the water as a choose for being too far on the Conservative side, though I would an African Pope (since their devotion to the faith is very strong). Still I don't think they'll have the votes to go completely liberal, not ever single Francis voter will be a modernist, instead my best guess is the Hungarian Péter Erdő will win as a compromise candidate who won't rock the boat too much.

Besides I wonder if Conservative Catholics would really want Sarah at this point, given that he's almost 80 his ability to make long term changes is certainly going to limited. I wonder if they'll be coalescing around a younger candidate during the next election.

 

[A Very Big Fish]

Take what I say also with a grain of Salt (I'm not a Catholic) but Pope Francis has appointed more than 2/3rds of the voting age Cardinals, so his associates will have the voting power in the next election. As a result I think Robert Sarah is dead in the water as a choose for being too far on the Conservative side, though I would an African Pope (since their devotion to the faith is very strong). Still I don't think they'll have the votes to go completely liberal, not ever single Francis voter will be a modernist, instead my best guess is the Hungarian Péter Erdő will win as a compromise candidate who won't rock the boat too much.

Besides I wonder if Conservative Catholics would really want Sarah at this point, given that he's almost 80 his ability to make long term changes is certainly going to limited. I wonder if they'll be coalescing around a younger candidate during the next election.

Fair, I just meant that I could see it as possible despite being 80 and no longer voting, not that I necessarily think he'd win. I haven't followed things enough for that.

 

[Venial Sneeds]

I can't believe the Christian Theology thread had a split
It's been a while since I checked the farms. Nothing in particular happened to inspire this thread's making, right?

 

[Local Farmer]

I can't believe the Christian Theology thread had a split
It's been a while since I checked the farms. Nothing in particular happened to inspire this thread's making, right?

Theirs a couple of posters on this site who froth at the mouth whenever the words Cat and Holic are put together, as well as a lack of space for Catholics to talk about Catholic Theology/culture and those who are looking to inquire, so it was probably best to make a thread as a refuge.

 

[jameskopp]

4Chan getting hacked was on Holy Monday. Very interesting.

 

[Brennan]

Take what I say also with a grain of Salt (I'm not a Catholic) but Pope Francis has appointed more than 2/3rds of the voting age Cardinals, so his associates will have the voting power in the next election. As a result I think Robert Sarah is dead in the water as a choose for being too far on the Conservative side, though I would an African Pope (since their devotion to the faith is very strong). Still I don't think they'll have the votes to go completely liberal, not ever single Francis voter will be a modernist, instead my best guess is the Hungarian Péter Erdő will win as a compromise candidate who won't rock the boat too much.

Besides I wonder if Conservative Catholics would really want Sarah at this point, given that he's almost 80 his ability to make long term changes is certainly going to limited. I wonder if they'll be coalescing around a younger candidate during the next election.

He's got a history of appointing men who don't necessarily align with his way of thinking. Argentinian boomers are big on open mindedness and dissenting opinions and such, which also explains his overall behavior. Ultimately we know very little of the power intricacies and intrigues at the Vatican.

 

[Local Farmer]

After Easter Sunday I would like to post daily feast days annd Bios of the Saints. I think it could be very moving