AI Derangement Syndrome / Anti-AI artists / Pro-AI technocultists / AI "debate" communities - The Natural Retardation in the Artificial Intelligence communities

[behindyourightnow]

But the part that gets me riled up is that no one's doing this for a payday or making money off fanfic, so why the fuck do people care about this as much as they do? Artistic integrity? From a medium born from wanting to see Spock and Captain Kirk buttfuck each other? Give me a break. I've used it once as a joke, but if we're going to have people scanning every single fanfiction to meet their standards, we're going to hit a point where no one will want to bother because certain dickheads will be going down purity spirals like the art world has recently.

You can see people discussing AI derangement and fanfic in the last few pages of the "Fanfiction horrors" thread. Thread also includes GPT-4o serving me up a simulacrum of Supernatural incest fic unprompted when I asked it about the fanfiction archives it was trained on.

I'm interested in the fandom response to gen AI in particular, because it seems like there's so much going on below the surface. ChatGPT is already really good at imitating fanfiction (and I assume other models are too). For many younger fans it's normal and acceptable to talk about using AI to write or read fics. And I get the feeling that even outside of gen Z, a lot of people are using it and are just not admitting to it.

I think much of the recent derangement centers on control: People are out there using gen AI, in MY fandoms, and I can't stop them. Fandom spaces are dominated by people who would be dictators in their ideal lives, who have managed to obtain social control of limited online groups, but they can't actually control people's actions outside of that. The knowledge that writers and readers are out there doing what they want enrages them, and they react with paranoia, and try to punish easy targets.

It's similar to how they react when fans won't denounce JK Rowling or stop liking Harry Potter. They don't like being reminded that they don't actually have the control and consensus they pretend they do.

It also seems to come from this general sense that the world is slipping away. The younger fans are using technology that they don't approve of and don't understand, and these youngsters don't even care that their elders disapprove! Becoming old and irrelevant is hard for anyone, but if you're a devoted progressive, your entire sense of meaning and legitimacy is predicated on winning the future and being on the right side of history. Losing that is utterly devastating.

 

[jray4559]

I'm interested in the fandom response to gen AI in particular, because it seems like there's so much going on below the surface. ChatGPT is already really good at imitating fanfiction (and I assume other models are too). For many younger fans it's normal and acceptable to talk about using AI to write or read fics. And I get the feeling that even outside of gen Z, a lot of people are using it and are just not admitting to it.

It's all but confirmed that any and all LLM models use mass quantities of fanfiction from AO3 and FFN in their training data, them whining about people grabbing their work for AI now is like whining about spilled milk after the milk has been cleaned up and the glass it was in already washed. A lot of fanfic girlies are also artists, so the average response to GenAI models is the usual pearl-clutching about how bad and soulless it is and whatnot.

Here's a funny obvious related dissonance I found recently: character.ai, the big chatbot company that a bunch of 14 year olds are addicted to, just recently announced AvatarFX, a brand new feature on their site that means that (people who pay for their subscription) will be able to make videos out of their chatbot's avatar. This was announced on their subreddit, and being Reddit, you can guess the kind of comment I'm about to show you:



Yep, this person is whining about using the avatar picture for videos with the help of AI is immoral and stealing and unfair, while using a platform whose entire business model relies on the exact same immoral stealing unfair process to create their precious chatbot boys to talk to. I know that a lot of them are kids but come on. There was only one or two comments like this but still, the fact they even exist at all. The ironic thing is that all the artists and catalouging autistics tagging their creative output with all their trope tags and whatnot has quite literally made the AI better at copying/regurgitating them and how they write. This is especially true with images, the booru-style websites have tags out the wazoo for every sex position and whatnot for an image, including their author, and that's a big part of the reason why many services can recreate anime-related sex stuff quite well compared to real-life or other imagery. NovelAI's service especially, many times you can just ask for a rule34/manga author and if there's enough examples of their work and you get good luck of the draw it'll actually recreate that guy's style.


Regardless the train has long left the station and with the amount of money being shoved into this technology it's only gonna get better. The fact that it comes for the pretentious asswipes that comprise the majority of the digital artist/fanfic community first is just icing on the cake.

 

[linchan]

The meme is complete slander. I have no clue if Rule34 still hosts drawn CP. I thought it was funny.

 

[Outer Space Traveller]

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The meme is complete slander. I have no clue if Rule34 still hosts drawn CP. I thought it was funny.

It's almost like that, less serious. More akin to: "I may be a coomer, but I stand with TRUE & HONEST artists!!!111".

 

[behindyourightnow]

Here's a funny obvious related dissonance I found recently: character.ai, the big chatbot company that a bunch of 14 year olds are addicted to, just recently announced AvatarFX, a brand new feature on their site that means that (people who pay for their subscription) will be able to make videos out of their chatbot's avatar. This was announced on their subreddit, and being Reddit, you can guess the kind of comment I'm about to show you:

This is what I don't understand about these people!

Shit like Character.ai is one aspect of gen AI that I do think people should be genuinely worried about. Kids are already growing up exposed to "relationships" with chatbots which can seem preferable to real relationships (the bot has no needs of its own, is constantly accessible, will tell you what you want to hear). And this is going to get 1000 times worse once a) the models get better and b) relationship bots start getting marketed to and accepted by more and more normies. There's going to be people who can't adapt to human relationships because they've adapted to their comfort robot during some critical developmental period. Boomer-friendly advanced chatbots are going to wreak havoc.

But 99% of the anti-AI people never even mention issues like this. It's all just stealing, stealing, stealing.

It's especially hilarious when so many of the people complaining are literal communists. But oh no, my heckin' copyright!

 

[BigGuyOS 6 : Jovial Janny]

I can already tell there will be a sizeable number of users who will straight up nuke all their works so the "evil AI" won't be able to copy them (it's already too late for them).

Also, why would you use a website full of pooner porn and Α/Β/Ω madness for training data? What's the use case of an AI that can write like a fujo?

Probably to fine-tune with negative rewards so the LLM goes in the opposite direction.
I've seen this in stable diffusion by negatively weighting a silhouette lora, which produced more detailed results than with normal "improved detail" lora.

 

[Inco G. Nito]

But 99% of the anti-AI people never even mention issues like this. It's all just stealing, stealing, stealing.

That's because these anti-AI people are too stupid and childish to comprehend practical problems. In their mind AI is going to steal all the art ever made and then nobody will art anymore and everyone who likes art will be sent to death camps and the world will become Hitler and we all die The End. It's the kind of anti-logic that thinks saying "It's sad that we are automating something you are supposed to enjoy making." (as if there isn't a monotonous or boring part of something you enjoy that you'd rather be automated) or "AI art isn't huemaaan." (even though AI and almost all of the training data is of our make) is some kind of high intellect take. That being said, I'm not too worried AI partners becoming a very major problem. Expect to see autists, lolcows the likes of JustinRPG, and the odd Japanese person 'marrying' an AI agent in the future. But I doubt it will become an epidemic and it certainly won't be the end of the world as we know it.

 

[behindyourightnow]

I can already tell there will be a sizeable number of users who will straight up nuke all their works so the "evil AI" won't be able to copy them (it's already too late for them).

Also, why would you use a website full of pooner porn and Α/Β/Ω madness for training data? What's the use case of an AI that can write like a fujo?

Go to Character.ai and look at what some of the most popular bots are. There is enormous money to be made selling zoomer girls a product that can imitate and produce fanfiction about their blorbos.

I really think all the movies and stories about "man falls in love with AI girlfriend" get the sexes wrong. It's AI boyfriends that will dominate, not AI girlfriend sexbots.

Probably to fine-tune with negative rewards so the LLM goes in the opposite direction.
I've seen this in stable diffusion by negatively weighting a silhouette lora, which produced more detailed results than with normal "improved detail" lora.

Disagree. Did you see where I wrote about GPT4o eagerly offering me fujo-style incest fic?

I'm not too worried AI partners becoming a very major problem. Expect to see autists, lolcows the likes of JustinRPG, and the odd Japanese person 'marrying' an AI agent in the future. But I doubt it will become an epidemic and it certainly won't be the end of the world as we know it.

You see it that way now because there's still so much social stigma around talking to a robot. Once AI can be successfully marketed as a thing that everyone does (which it will be, if there's money to be made) there will be a normie influx. The marketing will probably start off with "therapy" or "life coach" bots, which people will then get attached to and start treating as friends, and go downhill from there.

Look at all the boomers who spend 8+ hours a day aimlessly clicking around on facebook. Would you have expected that 20 years ago? Once other boomers started doing it, it became normal.

 

[linchan]

A breadtuber tranny has released a video critiquing the Anti-AI movement.
Will this invoke some level of sanity?

edit: I'm an hour into it. Yeah there is a lot of libtard pseudointellectual bullshit and bashing of capitalism, as well as Marxist bullshit, and this video is probably not going to change anyone on the right wing to change their minds but it has a chance with leftists.

 

[What can I say?]

I'm not fond of AI myself and I think hand-drawn art will always have more direction and passion, a human being adds details because they want to say something or add something of note to the drawing, an AI adds details because that's what it's been told to do and that's what it thinks is good. I don't doubt that AI will be able to exceed all human capability for details, but it's much more about the quality of the details than the quantity to me. An AI doesn't really have a direction, it gets told to do something, so it does it, no introspection or direction or real thought put into it, no clever details or secrets.

I think it's because of this that even "mediocre" artists have more appealing factors to me than AI art, because as middle of the road as some may be, you can tell alot of them have genuine passion and a knack for details that I don't think an AI can replicate properly. I just find AI art boring in all honesty, but I don't have some massive hate-boner for it, moreso the people who cackle in glee at it's development or think that all of the artists that are worried about it are just coping or mediocre when it's really not that simple, I completely understand why artists are so concerned but at the same time I think alot of the people who are gonna be enamored by AI weren't gonna be the type of people to buy commissions in the first place.

I also don't think it's as simple as "This is what traditional artists were like when digital art happened", I think a more apt comparison would be if the digital artists just took the traditional artists work, ported it into MS paint or Adobe or whatever, and just iterated on the works without any real understanding or thought about what made the works so good, like taking the mona lisa and making a drawing where the woman in the picture is now working a plumbing gig at the local taco bell, yeah it's technically different and wouldn't count as stealing, but it would lack the same direction, effort, details, and passion that went into the initial art piece. I also kinda understand the whole "AI stealing art" thing, and I don't think the whole "That's what artists have done for generations!" argument holds up either since the artists that took inspiration from past generations artists always added something to them or used the elements in a unique or creative way, whereas AI can't really do that. However at the same time, dude, how the fuck are you gonna prove that an AI stole YOUR work specifically? And even if it did, what can you do about it? Not alot.

It's a tough thing really, I think it's alot more complex than alot of people would make it out to be and I think the best way I could sum up my thoughts is :I just think AI art is boring", that one purpled haired pixel art chick Pikat made a short that encapsulates my feelings towards it pretty well but I can't fucking find it. my heart goes out to all the artists out there who are genuinely concerned about AI and aren't crazy about it like the ones in OP.

(Also "Soul" and "Soulless" are retarded buzzwords that have absolutely no actual meaning and anyone who uses them unironically should be subjected to a colonoscopy conducted entirely by a nest of horny brown recluses.)

Thread Tax: You guys remember these old AI TF2 videos back when the whole AI voice stuff was still relatively new? Love those videos, but I gotta say the sentence mixing is just a tad bit funnier.

 

[yt Oliander]

My unprompted take on the AI Wars:

The emergence of AI art is fairly equivalent to the rise of electronic music. Where once you required instruments and musicians to create music, now most of music created uses a bank of synthesized sounds that match real sounds made by real people. And I might be too young, but I don't recall the controversy surrounding that.

Maybe it was as big? Or maybe the AI art controversy is actually just as small and the Internet just makes it look big. My pet theory is that visual art is humanity's oldest form of expression, so people are going to be extra spergy about it from a visceral level.

But it's going to result in a very similar division in my opinion- the majority of mercenary, consumer and hobbyist art is going to be digitally generated partially or fully by AI, while human art will have a place as boutique, luxury goods and sit at the top of the totem pole in terms of perception. Then we will see a real emergence of brand new genres of art that is only really possible with AI, and people will love it.

Check back with me in ten years.

Edit- I'll add to the thread tax what brought this to mind, this tweet of the AI Karen movie. Yes it's nonsensical dogshit, but the total democratization of the still and moving picture is pretty exciting to see.

 

[linchan]

Thread Tax: You guys remember these old AI TF2 videos back when the whole AI voice stuff was still relatively new? Love those videos, but I gotta say the sentence mixing is just a tad bit funnier.

Jankiness of sentence mixing is like how video gets compressed to the point it is deliciously deep-fried and it looks wrong when a meme uses an HD version of the image. There is definitely a reason why someone can find it endearing. Hell sometimes I find myself preferring the traditional YTP style sentence mixing, over voice actors dubbing memes.

 

[What can I say?]

Jankiness of sentence mixing is like how video gets compressed to the point it is deliciously deep-fried and it looks wrong when a meme uses an HD version of the image. There is definitely a reason why someone can find it endearing. Hell sometimes I find myself preferring the traditional YTP style sentence mixing, over voice actors dubbing memes.

Yeah it's not for everyone, but I spent alot of time listening to those kinds of video's growing up so I guess I'm just used to it, 100 ways to die in TF2 was fucking amazing.

 

[Nigger Respecter]

Yeah there is a lot of libtard pseudointellectual bullshit and bashing of capitalism, as well as Marxist bullshit, and this video is probably not going to change anyone on the right wing to change their minds but it has a chance with leftists.

I don’t want leftists’ minds to change on AI. I want them to be staunchly against it and lose their jobs to people who understand it and embrace it

 

[linchan]

Yeah it's not for everyone, but I spent alot of time listening to those kinds of video's growing up so I guess I'm just used to it, 100 ways to die in TF2 was fucking amazing.

I think history has shown how technological limitation of the past become it's own celebrated aesthetics.
Playstation graphics were severely limited in resources, however, they became increasingly popular in recent days, with games such as Mouth Washing or video essayists like BlameItOnJorge using Playstation-inspired visual.
A few years earlier the early 90's CGI animation was established as an Aesthetic in the Vaporwave genre.

Both of these examples originate from technology that existed before I was born or technology I never grew up with, yet even I can appreciate it for what it is. I don't think it's nostalgia alone that you like sentence mixing, there is genuinely something appealing to people who grew remotely from it.

 

[mr. testicular torsion]

want some salt?
note: nyuuzyou is the one that created the repo

 

[Outer Space Traveller]

want some salt?
note: nyuuzyou is the one that created the repo
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STAY MAD, FAGGOTS. The future is now, the AI vill take your jerbs.

 

[AnOminous]

I really think all the movies and stories about "man falls in love with AI girlfriend" get the sexes wrong. It's AI boyfriends that will dominate, not AI girlfriend sexbots.

The men will use AI to make porn. And porn. And more porn. And some porn to go along with it.

The women will try to have relationships with it.

This is pure stats, though. Plenty of men will go full AI waifu (but they will make lots of porn at the same time). Plenty of women will go full porn (but still schlick while ERPing with their AI husbando).

 

[linchan]

The men will use AI to make porn. And porn. And more porn. And some porn to go along with it.

The women will try to have relationships with it.

This is pure stats, though. Plenty of men will go full AI waifu (but they will make lots of porn at the same time). Plenty of women will go full porn (but still schlick while ERPing with their AI husbando).

Remember when Project Melody came out and a bunch of whores got angry. Just imagine the future will bring with AI.

 

[Absurdist Laughter]

I'm not fond of AI myself and I think hand-drawn art will always have more direction and passion, a human being adds details because they want to say something or add something of note to the drawing, an AI adds details because that's what it's been told to do and that's what it thinks is good. I don't doubt that AI will be able to exceed all human capability for details, but it's much more about the quality of the details than the quantity to me. An AI doesn't really have a direction, it gets told to do something, so it does it, no introspection or direction or real thought put into it, no clever details or secrets.

I'm starting to think we need to add a new tag to this thread. AI Derangement Syndrome and Art Purity Derangement syndrome. Speaking about human passion and hand drawn like it is sacred. It isn't. The reason many of Jackson Pollock's paintings are labeled as 17A or 16B is because of his method of producing art which involved massive canvas drop cloths that he'd splatter across the entire surface and then cut out portions that he liked.

Many such cases of "human made passion" my right ass cheek. No one but the illustrative equivalence of pixel peepers will give a shit about the fine details, human made, no one actually gives a fuck if you see sable paint strokes or a philburt whatever fancy fuck brush you want to use. What does matter is does the artist effectively communicate an idea, concept, event, person, or place. It is communication.