Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Powerhouse of the Cell]

Luke started a new Jedi Church where he's the unmarried Pope of the religion,

Luke being celibate and essentially becoming a Pope like leader of the Jedi always made sense as a way to take the direction of his character than what either canon did.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

By this logic only the six movies and Filoni's Clone Wars would be canon.

Yes.

And I'm not saying that the rest of the EU and the games and the comics and whatnot aren't good, a lot of it is decent, but for me Lucas is the creator of Star Wars and as such his word is law.

 

[Gondolindrim]

Luke being celibate and essentially becoming a Pope like leader of the Jedi always made sense as a way to take the direction of his character than what either canon did.

Yeah but Luke getting married, having kids, and still remaining light side is his ultimate victory over Palpatine.

 

[GlupShitto]

Yes.

And I'm not saying that the rest of the EU and the games and the comics and whatnot aren't good, a lot of it is decent, but for me Lucas is the creator of Star Wars and as such his word is law.

I feel the same, honestly (adding in TCW season seven/any other revivals of scrapped TCW stories like the Dark Disciple novel, and what we know about Underworld/by extension Rogue One). It's why no matter how many books TCW may have contradicted and how much certain fans hate the control chip thing, I'm all for it.

Speaking of Rogue One, holy shit those last three Andor episodes landed HARD. Admittedly, when I'm watching these, I'm usually trying to find something to dog on and I'm more critical than I would be if I didn't enjoy bitching about stuff on the internet, but man I can't find anything to complain about here. That's some of the best television I've ever seen.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

So......those last three episodes turned into one big fat game of chicken. With a few people falling on their swords, metaphorically and literally.

-Krennic was right to bitch at Dedra for trying to confront Luthen face-to-face. They should've black-bagged him when he was walking around and then have Dedra confront him in a sterile cell. She deserved everything that came at her.

-They try to make the Rebel council look obtuse/stupid by having them attack Luthen, but it makes sense that they don't trust him, considering he's the Rebel equivalent of the Illusive Man from Mass Effect, willing to sacrifice both morals and people for his gains, and the fact that his main source is an ISB agent would give credence to the theory that he's being fed bullshit. We know he's telling the truth, but the council does not, and their doubts about him come from a place of reason, given what they know. And we've seen ISB agents get compromised before; Thrawn found out where the Phoenix Squadron was located by using their mole in the ISB, Agent Kallus.

-Luthen got really sloppy. He should've left right after Mon left with Andor. What kind of terrorist organization is this? If this was Cerberus from Mass Effect, they would've evac'd their leader a lot smoother than this.

-K2-SO proved himself a valuable asset. If he wasn't there, the ISB team would've had them in chains. Speaking of the ISB team, it's interesting that they have their own tactical squads instead of requisitioning Death Troopers from Imperial Intelligence. Or Stormtroopers. I suppose there's still that bit of inter-service rivalry between the different branches of the Imperial forces.

-That journal by the wannabe-revolutionary says that the Imperial need for control is unnatural, but that couldn't be more false. Animals mark their territory all the time to show their boundaries of control, and people try to keep their affairs in control as much as possible. The human need for control is as natural as breathing. The Empire is basically the most natural form of government-the kind that even an animal would come up with. If anything, the Republic was more unnatural, especially since it was propped up by legions of space wizards with unnatural powers, whereas outside of Vader and a few Dark Jedi, the Empire is all bureaucracy, and it worked fine. The fact that it had to be destroyed by an outside element shows that it would've gone on unchallenged if it was left alone.

-Major Partagaz/Space Qyburn blowing his own brains out is probably because he knows the price of failure in the Empire. He probably didn't want to meet a certain space wizard-cyborg hybrid with a penchant for choking people who failed.

 

[Fig Kommandant]

Luke being celibate and essentially becoming a Pope like leader of the Jedi always made sense as a way to take the direction of his character than what either canon did.

Yeah but Luke getting married, having kids, and still remaining light side is his ultimate victory over Palpatine.

I'm really not familiar with the old/post BBY lore, but as for Luke, the Jedi, the Force and all that. I've always hated Lucas' religious themes. Lucas describes himself as a buddhist-methodist, but his understanding of buddhism is retarded so we got a weird conception of the Force and monkhood, him being a Methodist/protestant means we also get weird ideas of abrahamism to mix into it all.
The idea that the jedi should remain celibate is from catholicism, plenty of buddhist monks only do it for a while then go back to "civilian" life and marry women. Lucas just mixed a bunch of misconceptions to make a sci-fi religion and now people try to make sense of it.

 

[GlupShitto]

Has anybody read any of the Rogue One tie in books? I know James Luceno of Darth Plagueis fame wrote one.

 

[Fig Kommandant]

holy shit those last three Andor episodes landed HARD

I thought S02E07-09 was more emotionally resonant, but E10-12 were thematically resonant for sure. But I think the overall story of the season could have been juggled better, especially with how much we wasted on the first three episodes. The end of the show did tie all ends, and it lead directly into Rogue One, but it wasn't as poignant as the Ghorman massacre, I felt.

it makes sense that they don't trust him, considering he's the Rebel equivalent of the Illusive Man from Mass Effect

That really doubly applies. From Luthen's speech in S01, it would only make sense he would die a forgotten and mundane way. For most of season 2, we were shown how the Rebellion outgrew not only Luthen, but even those close to him came to distrust him. Bix, Kleya, Cassian and Mon kept critizing his methods and goals. By the end of episode 9, if Luthen died, there would be plenty enough that the rebellion would go on, he had made himself redundant but that was his goal anyway.

Spoiler: Useless Mass Effect comparison

For TIM in ME, it's similar. TIM will never be thanked for saving Shepard, for funding and aiding so many efforts against the Reapers but he was still extremely instrumental in saving the galaxy.

Luthen got really sloppy. He should've left right after Mon left with Andor. What kind of terrorist organization is this? If this was Cerberus from Mass Effect, they would've evac'd their leader a lot smoother than this.

I think that has more to do with Luthen's methods, he only knew covert ops and backroom deals. He wasn't cut for the bickering and the officious debates going on on Yavin-4. Luthen, Mon, Organa and others all serve different purposes in the rebellion. He knew his work would outgrow him and when he had to face the wall, he did it on his own terms.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I'm really not familiar with the old/post BBY lore, but as for Luke, the Jedi, the Force and all that. I've always hated Lucas' religious themes. Lucas describes himself as a buddhist-methodist, but his understanding of buddhism is retarded so we got a weird conception of the Force and monkhood, him being a Methodist/protestant means we also get weird ideas of abrahamism to mix into it all.

I've already talked enough of how the Lucasian idea of Yin and Yang is horribly misrepresented by the Light and Dark Sides of the Force. Suffice to say, it's got more in common with Tolkienish magic, where the mages sent by Illuvatar have good magic and Sauron's minions left over from Morgoth's army have evil magic.

As for Lucas being a Protestant, it doesn't really count outside of basic Abrahamic concepts.

The idea that the jedi should remain celibate is from catholicism, plenty of buddhist monks only do it for a while then go back to "civilian" life and marry women. Lucas just mixed a bunch of misconceptions to make a sci-fi religion and now people try to make sense of it.

The Catholic Church maintains celibacy to keep the clergy from being a drain on the Church's finances. That, and they actually had married clergy for 1000 years back when the Roman Empire supported the Church for 700 years straight. The fact that the Jedi have Republic support for 25,000 years means they should be able to pay for the Jedi having families just like any other member of the Republic military and bureaucracy.

Especially since in certain eras, like the Exar Kun War, the Jedi did have emotional attachments and married couples. Vodo-Siosk Baas had his two Cathar acolytes making out at the back of his ship, and he didn't care. When he was still a Jedi, Malak describes the push for celibacy and cutting off emotional attachments as having gained power after the Exar Kun War, but there were still Jedi arguing for love, as Malak noted that the offspring of Jedi tend to be powerful in the Force. During the Republic's Dark Ages, some Jedi who protected their subjects and became Jedi Lords had kids whom they passed their titles, land, and power to.

That really doubly applies. From Luthen's speech in S01, it would only make sense he would die a forgotten and mundane way. For most of season 2, we were shown how the Rebellion outgrew not only Luthen, but even those close to him came to distrust him. Bix, Kleya, Cassian and Mon kept critizing his methods and goals. By the end of episode 9, if Luthen died, there would be plenty enough that the rebellion would go on, he had made himself redundant but that was his goal anyway.

I think that has more to do with Luthen's methods, he only knew covert ops and backroom deals. He wasn't cut for the bickering and the officious debates going on on Yavin-4. Luthen, Mon, Organa and others all serve different purposes in the rebellion. He knew his work would outgrow him and when he had to face the wall, he did it on his own terms.

That, and the idealistic Alliance crew, from the Rebels show to the OT movies and even the SWEU, would've never tolerated a guy like Luthen who kills allies like Lonnie and Anton Kreeger just to cover his tracks and further his goals. Even if they managed to extract him from Coruscant so that he could join the wider Rebel Alliance, his methods would inevitably end with the Alliance getting rid of him. Wedge Antilles or Sabine Wren would've been ordered to kill his ass before he became a liability, especially with everything he knew, and the fact that he kept killing Rebel assets to cover his tracks. Someone like Jan Dodonna or Crix Madine wouldn't tolerate him icing an ISB agent who was a snitch for the Rebel side. Especially since many a Rebel officer began their career as an Imperial who then jumped ship.

I remember how in Rogue Squadron 1, if you kill too many friendlies, the commanding Rebel general cancels the mission and calls Luke Skywalker in to "discuss his tactics". (Read: court-martial his sorry ass.) Someone like Luthen would probably be forced to face the wall, even by the Rebels, given how he's got no problem killing friendlies for his own ends.

For TIM in ME, it's similar. TIM will never be thanked for saving Shepard, for funding and aiding so many efforts against the Reapers but he was still extremely instrumental in saving the galaxy.

That is the point; that is why I made that analogy. TIM will go down in history as a hated man, but it was his effort that saved Shepard, who then went on to save the galaxy from the Reapers. TIM is still a ruthless son of a bitch who has no problems killing allies and innocent people to cover his tracks and achieve his goals.

 

[GlupShitto]

It's really funny to see feminists whine about Bix having a son.

 

[Fig Kommandant]

As for Lucas being a Protestant, it doesn't really count outside of basic Abrahamic concepts.

I don't have examples on hand, but I definitely have the impression his ideas of protestantism have "polluted" his ideas of buddhism, which in turn gave way for the Force and The Chosen One. One parallel I can think of, in Christianity it's mostly the "myth" era followed by the current era. Abraham, Moses, David, it's all (true) timeless myth. Followed by Jesus (chosen one) coming in and ushering the end times within our lifetimes. It's the same in SW, there's like 25k years before Episode IV, then Anakin/Chosen One fixes everything. That sort of carelessness about timelines is usually from fantasy writers. Sci-fi writers are usually aware that tech evolves over 25 thousand years. But Lucas went for a fantasy/mythical story.

The Catholic Church maintains celibacy to keep the clergy from being a drain on the Church's finances. That, and they actually had married clergy for 1000 years back when the Roman Empire supported the Church for 700 years straight. The fact that the Jedi have Republic support for 25,000 years means they should be able to pay for the Jedi having families just like any other member of the Republic military and bureaucracy.

Of all things, the Acolye show would have been a great place to show the dynamic with that. A clear parallel is eunuchs in Imperial China. They couldn't have kids, they served the polity, had special status. But in China, the eunuchs also had special social status, they still gave charity to their hometown (not directly to their family usually) or province, some grew extremely wealthy. Chinese eunuchs also had the trouble of recruiting/ostracism. Sure it could be a prestigious position, but it also meant abandoning your family and roots. It the best example of an IRL jedi and I've never seen a SW story use that as inspiration.
Separately, buddhists preach detachment, not lack of attachment. Buddhists love and cherish then let go. The jedi (through Lucas' retardation) are simply taught to never love while loving everything, it's so silly. Obi's fling with the mandalorian lady is probably the best jedi there is.

Someone like Luthen would probably be forced to face the wall, even by the Rebels, given how he's got no problem killing friendlies for his own ends.

The Rebels will kill if you don't conform. It's not about abstract ideals, it's about pragmatic actions. Same is true in real life, Carl Schmitt's polical conception will always be vindicated.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I don't have examples on hand, but I definitely have the impression his ideas of protestantism have "polluted" his ideas of buddhism, which in turn gave way for the Force and The Chosen One. One parallel I can think of, in Christianity it's mostly the "myth" era followed by the current era. Abraham, Moses, David, it's all (true) timeless myth. Followed by Jesus (chosen one) coming in and ushering the end times within our lifetimes. It's the same in SW, there's like 25k years before Episode IV, then Anakin/Chosen One fixes everything. That sort of carelessness about timelines is usually from fantasy writers. Sci-fi writers are usually aware that tech evolves over 25 thousand years. But Lucas went for a fantasy/mythical story.

The Bible has several different Chosen Ones, from Abraham, Moses, David, Elijah, and so on, and the last Chosen One is Jesus Christ, the Anointed Son of God, who is God Himself, hence the name Jesus, Yeshua, which means "God Saves". Anakin is different; Lucas subverted that narrative by first insisting that Anakin might be the Chosen One, but by the end, the Jedi start doubting that Prophecy, and Palpatine's story with Plagueis further complicates matters, since Plagueis is rumored to be able to create life with the Force; he could've been the one to create Anakin.

Anakin could possibly just be a Sith test weapon gone wrong, or in the Light Side's POV, gone right. Him becoming a walking tank of a Sith as Vader made perfect sense; the Living Force just hijacked him as a tool to bring balance. Although Lucas would define balance as the lack of the Dark Side, other fans have re-defined it as Vader killing both the Jedi and the Sith, which set things back to ground zero, wiping out the last of the Ancient Jedi and Sith and forcing both sides to start over.

Hence why the Prophecy comes true, just not from the Jedi's point of view.

Separately, buddhists preach detachment, not lack of attachment. Buddhists love and cherish then let go. The jedi (through Lucas' retardation) are simply taught to never love while loving everything, it's so silly. Obi's fling with the mandalorian lady is probably the best jedi there is.

That's basically the problem with the Jedi; they took something from the real world and took it to the extreme. To the point where it sounds inhuman. The Sith Code, where they encourage you to embrace your emotions and your passions, is more natural. That's part of the reason many prefer the Sith to the Jedi. Aside from the awesome drip and the space empires, of course. The Jedi spend their days looking like hobos and serving rich pricks. The Sith make the rich pricks bow and piss their pants, and they've got cool drip to spare.

The Rebels will kill if you don't conform. It's not about abstract ideals, it's about pragmatic actions. Same is true in real life, Carl Schmitt's polical conception will always be vindicated.

The Rebellion is a benign military dictatorship fighting against the malignant military dictatorship of the Empire. Someone like Luthen would be seen as a loose cannon; his tactics would cost them men and material just to further his own goals, that he decides for himself, and that would not be tolerated. Especially when he kills allies based on his own judgement; that would not be tolerated in the Alliance, where they need every asset and person they can get.

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

Honestly this final arc was pretty soild. Everything with K2 was gold. I thought the show was rather meh overall but it stuck the landing better then a lot of things.

I don't buy it as a prequel to ANH though

 

[GlupShitto]

Actually I'm gonna take back something I said earlier. There's one TCW change I hate and that's the other crystals being the wands from Harry Potter thing.

 

[Eventide]

Just thought I'd share my main issue with the Andor finale (and I guess my main issues with Rogue One, too...):

Why does the Resistance inexplicably dismiss the Death Star intelligence as ridiculous conspiracy nonsense? Is the Empire building a weapon capable of blowing up planets really that outrageous, considering everything they know about the Imperial Government/Emperor Papaltine? Like, the Resistance leaders act like Cassian is telling them Alex Jones, InfoWars-tier "Jewish lizard people are running the government and turning the frogs gay" type of sh!t.

Cassian: Luthen had an ISB mole & found out The Imperials are mining Ghorman and Jeddah for minerals necessary to construct a superweapon that blows up planets

The Resistance: You mean the "Death Star"? The moon sized super laser weapon Emperor Papaltine is building to defend the Galaxy from the, what are they called again? It's something stupid the Yohoo Vag? The aliens from another Galaxy secretly planning to invade our Galaxy? Yeah, sure buster. Someone clearly has got a terminal case of Holonet conspiracy theory video brain. Stay off Space TikTok.

Honestly this final arc was pretty soild. Everything with K2 was gold. I

I wish Disney would give K2 his own tv show. I'd watch the fuck out of it. He was the best character in Rogue One, hands down.

 

[ConsentAccidentVictimNo98]

I'm hyped for the Perrin show, where we see him become a lawyer following the events of Season 2 of Andor and he streams for super chats moneys.


He's like, our guy. Perfect for the role! He can have my super chat berries

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Why does the Resistance inexplicably dismiss the Death Star intelligence as ridiculous conspiracy nonsense? Is the Empire building a weapon capable of blowing up planets really that outrageous, considering everything they know about the Imperial Government/Emperor Papaltine? Like, the Resistance leaders act like Cassian is telling them Alex Jones, InfoWars-tier "Jewish lizard people are running the government and turning the frogs gay" type of sh!t.

Because it sounds crazy. That, and as far as they know, Palpatine's just a political bully, not a megalomaniac Sith Lord with dreams of godhood.

"Ah yes, the Death Star. The impenetrable, invincible, super-sized battle station capable of blowing up planets the same way a kid with a needle can pop a balloon. Oh, we have dismissed that claim."

 

[Eventide]

Because it sounds crazy. That, and as far as they know, Palpatine's just a political bully, not a megalomaniac Sith Lord with dreams of godhood.

"Ah yes, the Death Star. The impenetrable, invincible, super-sized battle station capable of blowing up planets the same way a kid with a needle can pop a balloon. Oh, we have dismissed that claim."

The Empire destroyed Ghorman, colonized countless systems that opposed Imperial rule, enslaved millions (billions?) of innocents under drummed up/false charges - why is Papaltine funding the creation of a war weapon capable of destroying other planets, so outrageous?

The live in a universe where bacteria infections (parasitic infections? WTF the midichlorians & whills are) can give people magical powers. Why the fuck is "Evil Fascist regime is making giant war machine to blow up planets" where everyone draws a line? The Empire is secretly funding the creation of new devastating superweapons sounds like a very logical conclusion to come to, especially considering the Rebellion grew larger/more organized.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

Glad Andor stuck the landing, anyway back to our regularly scheduled programming of Filoni's toychest where he can play with his action figures.

 

[ConsentAccidentVictimNo98]

The live in a universe where bacteria infections (parasitic infections? WTF the midichlorians & whills are) can give people magical powers. Why the fuck is "Evil Fascist regime is making giant war machine to blow up planets" where everyone draws a line? The Empire is secretly funding the creation of new devastating superweapons sounds like a very logical conclusion to come to, especially considering the Rebellion grew larger/more organized.

Thing is, it is quite excusable as being a mobile, logistical space station as well as a command centre and massive organisational hub full to the brim of offices meant to centralize and making ruling the empire easier so the empire can move shit off of Coruscant. It's basically just the Empire's pentagon.

Krennic's energy project? That exists for the sake of powering the station, and experimenting with higher grade weaponry in the lens of a Tillman Battleship. Less for the sake of destroying a planet, and more to ensure the capability is there if needs be. I mean hell, a group of Star Destroyers can obliterate a planet's surface from orbit. Nukes? They exist. Hell, the Empire can strip mine a planet if needs be which will completely ruin a planet. The development of an integrated super weapon can easily be defended for the sake of killing any and all threats to the station, especially with it being an administrative hub.

The reason why the Death Star has such gravitas is because of what it means to us, the audience, but in the context of the Star Wars galaxy it is nothing new. In Legends, there are things like the Devastation from a crappy DS game, which is a modified subjugator class heavy cruiser (Malevolence from TCW being of this class) which can destroy small worlds. In the case of Disney Canon, there are things like the Onager Class Star Destroyer which was designed for planetary bombardment. There is genuinely little reason for the Rebellion to be after it as a planet destroying weapon, when there are so many other alternatives for the station, which the station as a threat literally only makes sense as a hub of Imperial activity. (Which this is the only reason I can see for the Rebels to be so eager to attack it. Kill Tarkin, Yularen and who else is on the station? What a win!).

Hell, the Empire didn't need all the theatrics for Ghorman to get people off the planet to mine it. For all intent and purposes, they could have gone "sucks to suck but this is a project for Imperial Security so you can be resettled elsewhere and for good measure, we'll give you freebies and move your spiders over so you can continue to do your French shit" which probably wouldn't have taken as long as setting up the whole Ghorman front.