- Joined
- May 18, 2025
I have played "Genso Wanderer Reloaded" around 50~+ hours and so far its my most favorite fan-made game. Is Genso Wanderer Foresight/Lotus Labyrinth worth the try?
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From what I can tell from popular opinion, Genso Wanderer Reloaded is the best received out of the three here.I have played "Genso Wanderer Reloaded" around 50~+ hours and so far its my most favorite fan-made game. Is Genso Wanderer Foresight/Lotus Labyrinth worth the try?
So ZUN has responded to the controversy of him using AI in the newest Touhou game.
(Link / Google Translate) Note that 神主/"Priest" refers to ZUN.
From what I can tell, ZUN is saying that he refuses to use AI for character art and music because doing so makes creating games "less fun" for him, and that the AI can never replicate his creative spirit. However, since AI is often built-in to the software that he uses to create these games, AI is essentially unavoidable at this point. Additionally, since Adobe's AI doesn't use copyrighted works, it's completely "ethical" from an artistic standpoint. Thus, he sees it as another tool in the toolkit, even though he has a negative opinion of AI in general, because he sees having a militant anti-AI stance as "losing to AI."
Of course, leave it to Reddit to completely quote-mine the guy in order to make him come across as far more callous than he actually was:
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"We cannot avoid generative AI, so telling people not to use it shows ignorance of the world," huh? Wow, that sounds pretty harsh! I wonder what the full quote was...
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Oh, turns out he was just talking about the fact that AI tools are often built into software these days, thus making it completely unavoidable to use. Meaning that the people criticizing him for using it are essentially barking up the wrong tree.
Generally-speaking, I'm mildly negative-to-neutral on AI, but if you have to resort to distorting his words on the subject to make your point, then I think your side has already lost, just as ZUN said you did.
this response is likely just going to piss people off even more, he should just ignore the annoying ass western side of the community entirely. personally i don't think it's that big of a deal if he's only using it for minor assets, but people really have been taking a tribalistic "anti-AI vs AI" approach to this lately where even minor use of AI puts you on a "team" which they can project their own personal beliefs onto while ignoring any nuance whatsoever. as long as he doesn't replace any art, stage backgrounds, or anything that requires creative effort with it i don't really give a shitCross-posting this from the AI Art Seething thread, as ZUN has responded to the controversy surrounding his use of AI in the upcoming Touhou game.
However, since AI is often built-in to the software that he uses to create these games, AI is essentially unavoidable at this point.
Disingenuous behavior, just because your software supports ai generation doesn't mean that you HAVE to use it.Oh, turns out he was just talking about the fact that AI tools are often built into software these days, thus making it completely unavoidable to use.
That's how you know the people claiming this don't play the games. It's, by its demo alone, a great entry in the series. Boggles the mind when there're people who are saying everything is going down hill when 20 looks to be a massive improvement, but we already know it's mostly people looking for something to get mad at.he end of Touhou as we know it according to doomspergs who try to perceive it as such.
The other two seem dull from what I just read, it should have kept the same mechanic as reloaded. Thank youFrom what I can tell from popular opinion, Genso Wanderer Reloaded is the best received out of the three here.
Lotus Labyrinth is a "remake" of an untranslated game AQUA STYLE has re-released. Its main thing is you can bring lots of party members into a dungeon, so it can get a little chaotic.
Foresight appears to be lackluster, more forgiving if you get reduced to 0 HP in a dungeon, and seems to require heavy grinding. Some of the recent (and by recent I mean about one year ago) Steam reviews don't recommend it.
Hard to really say without knowing the software he used. However, if your argument is that ZUN should never use AI in the first place, then let's examine it against the common arguments that people use against AI generation and see how they hold up:Disingenuous behavior, just because your software supports ai generation doesn't mean that you HAVE to use it.
I think AI will be a very difficult genie to put back in the bottle, if it's even possible, and treating a creator like they're Hitler because two pixels were AI-generated just seems ridiculous to me, even if I'm slightly against AI art.
Already so soon, it may seem like the noise the overseas fans have made might've been enough. Why I'm saying that is because Richard has made yet another thread briefly explaining to Japanese users how Generative AI has become such a very controversial topic in the Western world. In turn, this now gives a first glance into the anti-AI perspective with no language barriers getting in the way.this response is likely just going to piss people off even more, he should just ignore the annoying ass western side of the community entirely.
Oh boy, more seething over ZUN using AI:
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Context: recently ZUN and his lawyers did copyright strikes upon various YouTube uploaders posting OST soundtracks to the Touhou games, which, while annoying and bad for PR, they are within their legal bounds to do so. Now, ZUN's lawyer, Ruw, has decided to stoke the flames by accusing the people who claim AI is copyright infringement while also uploading their music of being massive hypocrites.
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"AI is worse than piracy, because you're not just stealing the content, but also the credits." Isn't that literally just how Fair Use works?
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The AI ZUN used was trained on stock images, so none of these arguments apply.
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Again, the AI only used stock images, so your argument of intellectual property doesn't apply.
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This Redditor obviously doesn't know how Firefly works.
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Finally, one from someone who obviously didn't play the game or even do basic research:
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This reply got it right:
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they can complain all they want, but they will still play the game anyway. most wouldnt care of AI generated "content" used. The loudest(yet small audience doing so) may be visible present in the *Western* Audience but again Touhou is a big franchise internationally.How much potential playerbase is zun missing out on by doing this? Like what, a few dozen xitter troon "2hu fans" who ACTUALLY play the games and keep up with them?
about tree fiddyHow much potential playerbase is zun missing out on by doing this? Like what, a few dozen xitter troon "2hu fans" who ACTUALLY play the games and keep up with them?
please describe how [insert software name here] forces you to use AI in your games.Hard to really say without knowing the software he used
My view of it is that like NFTs, AI Art will eventually fade like any other trend. It might take longer or maybe even never, but who knows? Time is an eternal strive towards an unknown future.The internet would be a much happier place if people stopped overreacting about AI (it's an unstoppable change, just like cars and phones) and made more Nareko fanart.
>I don't really know because I haven't used the software.please describe how [insert software name here] forces you to use AI in your games.
I'm not sure if it'll ever go away, because the temptation to get instant, high-quality results without needing to pay an artist are just too great. However, I remain optimistic in favor of artists, because the camera didn't make painters obsolete. AI doesn't have real creativity, it can only churn out things based on what it's been fed, so human artists with real creativity will always have a job in the end.My view of it is that like NFTs, AI Art will eventually fade like any other trend. It might take longer or maybe even never, but who knows? Time is an eternal strive towards an unknown future.