The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

[Slav Power]

Whatever you do, do not look at his gut.

 

[Dread First]

I do agree that X11 is great, though, and it's a shame that with Redhat dropping support it will probably Start to rot, considering they were the ones keeping it alive, IIRC (though I am interested in being proven wrong if otherwise). Openbox is still the most problem free environment I have used ever including with any other OS.

The Xorg team hasn't made a new, "complete" release of X11 since 2012. They've basically said: "we'll keep maintaining and updating the individual parts of X11, but we're not planning on engineering a completely new release for the foreseeable future." While that sounds like a batshit stupid decision to make, do bear in mind that X11 is a monumental project with dozens of odds and ends. It's not just Xorg Server, it's also the Xorg drivers, Xorg utilities, and so on. I personally wouldn't put a colossal project like X11 on "pause" for 13 years while quietly maintaining what we have, but it is what it is. Last year, Xorg Server saw the highest number of commits to its git tree since 2014. It tapered down, stayed stagnant from 2015 through 2023, and then 2024 saw a huge uptick in activity. Take that with a grain of salt.

 

[⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛]

I personally wouldn't put a colossal project like X11 on "pause" for 13 years while quietly maintaining what we have, but it is what it is.

If it ain't broke...

Wayland will never, by design, reach feature parity with X11.

 

[dec05eba]

If it ain't broke...

Wayland will never, by design, reach feature parity with X11.

True, my software can't work properly on wayland because of this. Also software like DAW (digital audio workstation) cant work properly on wayland since there is a plugin standard for DAW (that works across different software and OS') and they work by creating a window in one process that gets embedded into a window in another process. This is not possible on Wayland and Wayland devs have stated that they dont want to support this, despite this feature actually improving software security, stability and modularity.

 

[dec05eba]

I was recently re-watching this series and I completely forgot this retarded scene existed:

Let's see Paul Allen's rice.

It's a bit funny to me. At my previous job I had a swedish boss (just like in that series) that also ran kde plasma while everybody else ran gnome/xfce/etc.

 

[YoRHa No. 2 Type B]

This is not possible on Wayland and Wayland devs have stated that they dont want to support this, despite this feature actually improving software security, stability and modularity.

Isn't Wayland mostly maintained by the same faggots that bought you Gnome and GTK? Explains why shit is so backwards with it.
Only been with the KDE devs focusing on it in the last few years that shit is finally getting done after 20 years of being stuck in development hell.
Still not as good as X, but I do use it on my HiDPI laptop since Wayland is a better experience with that (still absolute garbage, its just usable garbage now). Having only 1 global scaling option was the big dealbreaker for me personally.
X will never die though, at the very least it will last much longer then all Wayland loving troons.

 

[Slav Power]

Now, imagine for a second...

systemd-wayland

 

[Heliantheae]

Now, imagine for a second...
View attachment 7425932
systemd-wayland

That's the most horrible thing I can think of. Why would you speak evil into the world?

 

[Betonhaus]

That's the most horrible thing I can think of. Why would you speak evil into the world?

Don't forget: written in Rust

 

[DavidS877]

Now, imagine for a second...
View attachment 7425932
systemd-wayland

Can't we just compile it straight into the kernel to improve performance?

 

[jeff7989]

My cursor has always frozen with my amd gpu. The only fix I found was to enable software cursor. Software cursor also seems to have lower latency for whatever reason, even lower than on windows.

Not such issues in my case, really the only issue I had with this GPU since I got it almost a year ago, ignoring mess with ROCM but I've got a workaround for it.

FWIW: Fedora 42, using GNOME 48, X11 session, and tracking the most recent kernels. GNOME Shell chugs ever so slightly but it’s highly noticeable, there’s a disconnect between when I click something vs when the window pops up. I am an AMDGPU user too; what logs, greps, or full dmesg outputs do I need to see if it is indeed this regression?

Just watch with dmesg for amdgpu errors, I can reliably reproduce it by scrolling in ksystemlog, which is funny because I'll get fresh errors immediately.
That's what I got when cursor was freezing, I'm back to previous kernel for now, I'm not running distro kernel anyways so there are no issues with holding updates.

[drm] *ERROR* dc_dmub_srv_log_diagnostic_data: DMCUB error - collecting diagnostic data

You could also just try the mainline kernel. And see if it's fine there. That should be around 6.15.0 now. Probably depending on your distro.

Nah, I'm tracking LTS kernels because of ZFS, besides I learned my lesson years ago that unless you are running hardware released recently it's are just asking for regressions.

 

[dec05eba]

Isn't Wayland mostly maintained by the same faggots that bought you Gnome and GTK? Explains why shit is so backwards with it.
Only been with the KDE devs focusing on it in the last few years that shit is finally getting done after 20 years of being stuck in development hell.
Still not as good as X, but I do use it on my HiDPI laptop since Wayland is a better experience with that (still absolute garbage, its just usable garbage now). Having only 1 global scaling option was the big dealbreaker for me personally.
X will never die though, at the very least it will last much longer then all Wayland loving troons.

You can actually have proper per-monitor fractional HiDPI on x11 if you use qt. The issue people see with hidpi on x11 is because gtk doesn't support fractional scaling and neither does it on wayland. The only thing missing in x11 is for somebody to decide on a name for the scaling option so that different ui toolkits can have a unified way of setting scaling. X11 supports per-monitor properties without changing anything in x11 (with xrandr) so no code has to be changed to do this.
Here is an example of x11 with per-monitor scaling:

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

Isn't Wayland mostly maintained by the same faggots that bought you Gnome and GTK? Explains why shit is so backwards with it.
.

No. There are a lot of people in all parts of the Linux development community that are taking part of it.

The gnome people, at least now. Seem to only fuck shit up when everyone else is trying to move forward with something.

The one thing I can recommend from Brodie Roberson, is his videos where he goes through the happenings of Wayland development. Reads the arguments between developers. Or in general the ones where he goes over GitHub or kernel fighting.

But there are a lot of people working on Wayland.

 

[YoRHa No. 2 Type B]

You can actually have proper per-monitor fractional HiDPI on x11 if you use qt. The issue people see with hidpi on x11 is because gtk doesn't support fractional scaling and neither does it on wayland. The only thing missing in x11 is for somebody to decide on a name for the scaling option so that different ui toolkits can have a unified way of setting scaling. X11 supports per-monitor properties without changing anything in x11 (with xrandr) so no code has to be changed to do this.
Here is an example of x11 with per-monitor scaling:

Well I have been proven wrong. I gave xrandr moon runes a go last time I tried HiDPI on X but I couldn't get it working right.
Good to know that its possible. What xrandr options did you use to get this working?
I only use qt programs and refuse to use gtk or gtk apps because they are toys for speds, so I will give this a go later because it might just work.

 

[Dirty Harry]

Wayland has been in development for how many years now? The problem with Linux tards if you can have 1,000 working on a project, and 1,000 of them will have different ideas, code, crap, and argue constantly among themselves.

And once the linux tards finally figure something out, they branch out to break it again. Take a look at Pop OS, it was fine under Gnome, now they have been fucking around with COSMIC desktop for endless years now and it still doesn't work properly and still in alpha stage.

Google did Linux right. You make it not open source which removes all the tards from it, develop it in private under corporate leadership, and then only release shit when it works right.

The gnome people, at least now. Seem to only fuck shit up when everyone else is trying to move forward with something.

Exactly. People who use Gnome rely on extensions and every time a new Gnome version comes out, say 47 to 48, it fucks up most of the extensions and by the time those maintainers catch up, a new Gnome comes out. No wonder there is so many dead or non-compatible extensions out there now, people just give up. XFCE does it right, why change what works?

 

[Baraka Obama]

Wayland has been in development for how many years now? The problem with Linux tards if you can have 1,000 working on a project, and 1,000 of them will have different ideas, code, crap, and argue constantly among themselves.

And once the linux tards finally figure something out, they branch out to break it again. Take a look at Pop OS, it was fine under Gnome, now they have been fucking around with COSMIC desktop for endless years now and it still doesn't work properly and still in alpha stage.

Google did Linux right. You make it not open source which removes all the tards from it, develop it in private under corporate leadership, and then only release shit when it works right.



Exactly. People who use Gnome rely on extensions and every time a new Gnome version comes out, say 47 to 48, it fucks up most of the extensions and by the time those maintainers catch up, a new Gnome comes out. No wonder there is so many dead or non-compatible extensions out there now, people just give up. XFCE does it right, why change what works?

XFCE sees little to no "attention" by busybodies trying to "fix" it, that's why it's still good.

Which google linux project are you highlighting btw? Android which is a slow moving mess or ChromeOS which is a linux desktop without the mess and without the testicles?

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

Google did Linux right. You make it not open source which removes all the tards from it, develop it in private under corporate leadership, and then only release shit when it works right.

It doesn't have to be proprietary to get work done. You just shouldn't do it the way the wayland people have. There are plenty of completely open source projects that do fine. And there are a lot of ways to do it. Like the BDFL method. Though you don't even need to do that.

But having a big project, like wayland, That needs to work for everything under the linux umbrella, if it's going to be what everything runs their graphical session on. Means a lot of people, with a lot of competing interests, want to have their say in how things get done. Which things are important, which don't need to be there. And it's made the project a shit show, as far as the direction of development goes.

I do think some choices made early on, like was mentioned, above. Were probably the wrong way to do things. And that hasn't helped. But at this point, for the most part. The average person, can run wayland, and between xdg-desktop-portals, and xwayland. It will generally work for them.

People over exaggerate how bad things are here with it. Not that I really expect much different from a thread on the site. It does seem like some people really seethe, if you just mention wayland at all though.

 

[Akerman]

But having a big project, like wayland, That needs to work for everything under the linux umbrella, if it's going to be what everything runs their graphical session on. Means a lot of people, with a lot of competing interests, want to have their say in how things get done. Which things are important, which don't need to be there. And it's made the project a shit show, as far as the direction of development goes.

Yeah, the real problem is often not due to having too many cooks in the kitchen; it’s when some of them wield too much influence over a project. For example, when a few developers arbitrarily decide, “Nah, we don’t want to add that,” and dismiss features for sometimes vague reasons. These are things people actually want to merge and are willing to maintain. I think Dunning-Kruger egos are a problem w/ development in general today. Esp now with the infestation of trannies and jeets into the space.

 

[YoRHa No. 2 Type B]

For example, when a few developers arbitrarily decide, “Nah, we don’t want to add that,” and dismiss features for sometimes vague reasons.

Use case for X11?

This cunt might just win the "Most Punchable Face in Linux" award.
What is it with the GTK and Gnome devs in particular being absolute fuckheads?

 

[Trans Fat 41g]

Gnome and GTK are products of those who develop Linux toolkits and user interfaces on MacOS, an operating system with all kinds of arbitrary obsolescence policies and pretentious philosophies holding it back. The mindsets plaguing the Linux Desktop are the same ones making the Android and MacOS platforms fucking insufferable, while not copying any of their "good ideas".