The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

[Samuel Fuller]

Crapple

I bet typing that made you think you deserve an extra tendie tonight.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Your saying all this shit like "the year of the linux desktop" needs to happen.

Never said that. Try again.

Who actually gives a fuck?

You, and linux fans, if the internet is anything to go by.

If the only reason they installed it was their gay internet gaming daddy said linux is good.

There it is again.

And who said steamos sucks? All I've seen, including myself. Is saying if you are trying to install steamos on a desktop. You're a retard. Doubly so, if you are doing it because you listened to Linus Tech Tips of all people.

And again.

I'll put it as simply as I can. Do you care if people use Linux or not?

And by "you", I mean A: you personally, and B: the Linux community as a whole.


The answer to B, from what I have seen, is yes. The Linux community cares a lot. They put a lot of effort into persuading people to use it. Which is all the more baffling why, any time there is a spike of interest and adoption, the Linux community turns feral. This has happened repeatedly.

 

[Fcret]

Jokes aside, MacOS is the #1 clearest example of tech enshittification. It prevents you from running non-apple distros on apple hardware, forces you into the Mac ecosystem, creates a device that scrunches you into a box that you HAVE to work in, then data harvests you because if you use Microsoft/Windows, say it with me: YOU ARE THE PRODUCT. If I can't audit and compile my kernel, then into the bin it goes

You can install Linux just fine on Macs tho. There's basically no restrictions on what you can boot.

the point is better Windows software compatibility on Linux is ultimately a good thing

Most Windows software is poorly-written garbage and the world would be better off without it. Pretty much all software that matters already runs fine on Wine and anything that doesn't is a failure on the part of the original engineers who made it rather than the wine team.

redoing the kernel to work more like the hybrid kernel that is Windows NT

Nope, garbage take. The monolithic design ensures that hardware vendors can't cuck you and try to planned obsolescence you by not releasing drivers for newer operating systems. Kernel modules being required to be in source code form integrated into the kernel's source tree means that hardware that worked on Linux 20 years ago is still probably working on Linux just fine today.

The idea that we need to 'compromise' with hardware vendors by giving them a vehicle to release closed-source pluggable drivers that will quickly become unusable is retarded. Here's my compromise - I'll buy your shit if you have drivers in the mainline kernel. Otherwise you can fuck off.

 

[Slav Power]

Most Windows software is poorly-written garbage

The software that you use is not the software that millions of other people use. Try learning how to look at something from someone else's perspective. Sometimes this "poorly-written garbage" has to be used by someone, it only exists on Windows and there is no magic FOSS alternative.

Nope, garbage take.

Everything you've said after that was an answer to a take that wasn't made.

It's a neatly vague term that doesn't only focus on the bad ways you'd make Linux more like Windows, like redoing the kernel to work more like the hybrid kernel that is Windows NT, to good ways like making Wine better and more transparent to the end user.

Re-read this entire quote and try to spot your mistake. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you've been locked in an emotional trance where you couldn't read with comprehension instead of purposefully quoting me out of context to make a strawman argument.

 

[snotang]

I'll put it as simply as I can. Do you care if people use Linux or not?

And by "you", I mean A: you personally, and B: the Linux community as a whole.


The answer to B, from what I have seen, is yes. The Linux community cares a lot. They put a lot of effort into persuading people to use it. Which is all the more baffling why, any time there is a spike of interest and adoption, the Linux community turns feral. This has happened repeatedly.

The cardinal sin of analyzing populations is assuming that just because you refer to them uniformly (e.g. "the Linux community") they are therefore uniform. It is perfectly coherent for different people that happen to use Linux to have different opinions on the direction it and its associated communities should take.

But I should also point out that even if it were the same person expressing both a desire for more people to use Linux, and a desire for those new to Linux to be willing to adapt, there is nothing contradictory about these desires.

It's the Henry Ford mindset: newfags should assimilate or stay home. If the first thing you do upon reaching the land of the free is start bitching about how the place needs to be more like the place you left, don't expect the locals to be happy about it.

I want more people to use Linux (and free software more generally). This comes from a desire to see people gain more control over and freedom in their computing. It's not because I think I or anybody like me "needs" them to, or because I think it's a drop-in replacement for everything they do.

If you want to see what "more people using Linux, but without assimilating" looks like, look no farther than Android, where not only can users usually not replace the bootloader, they can't even install an alternative OS, and on the OS they do have, they can't even run anything as root, and they legitimately advocate for all of this. This, to my understanding, represents even less control and freedom than Windows - even Windows users can usually be counted on to figure out installing an ad blocker after you mention it to them a few times.

But hey, at least Android users have games, and that's what really matters, right?

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

Never said that. Try again.


You, and linux fans, if the internet is anything to go by.


There it is again.

And again.

I'll put it as simply as I can. Do you care if people use Linux or not?

And by "you", I mean A: you personally, and B: the Linux community as a whole.


The answer to B, from what I have seen, is yes. The Linux community cares a lot. They put a lot of effort into persuading people to use it. Which is all the more baffling why, any time there is a spike of interest and adoption, the Linux community turns feral. This has happened repeatedly.

If you can't understand where my exact stance on this is. I'll explain it. I've already said it in this thread. Pages back now.

I don't care what people use. I think giving a fuck what other people run is gay. Whether it's them running windows, apple, or Linux. Why should I care? I personally hate windows and Apple. But I could care less if Linux gets wider adoption. I think that's about as gay, as people caring if someone else uses debian, or arch.

I will give people advice to tech support if I get asked for it. But if someone needs a Linux cheerleader to tell them to keep using it. It's perfect. That is never going to be me. Especially if they don't know why they are using Linux. I will just tell people to use windows at that point.

But I think just telling people to blindly install Linux. Is probably overall bad. If they have no idea what they are doing it, why they should do it. What potential issues they could be in for. And if their use case even makes sense to run Linux.

So if you are going to speak about what "Linux people" want, as if everyone that runs it is going to want the same thing. You are going to be wrong every tine. Because a lot of very different people use it for very different reasons. There are rust troons using nixos and putting anime in every part of their system that they can, to minimalist users running a window manager with no wallpaper, sys admins running 20 containers with Debian, Ubuntu or redhat, to normies running Linux mint to watch Netflix in their browser.

In case you still aren't clear. I will summarize. No I don't personally care if anyone moves to Linux. I'm willing to help people that want to. And how I feel about it, isn't speaking for anyone else, but myself, and definitely isn't the opinion of whatever Linux community you are talking about.

 

[Slav Power]

The cardinal sin of analyzing populations is assuming that just because you refer to them uniformly (e.g. "the Linux community") they are therefore uniform.

If you want to see what "more people using Linux, but without assimilating" looks like, look no farther than Android, where not only can users usually not replace the bootloader, they can't even install an alternative OS, and on the OS they do have, they can't even run anything as root, and they legitimately advocate for all of this. This, to my understanding, represents even less control and freedom than Windows - even Windows users can usually be counted on to figure out installing an ad blocker after you mention it to them a few times.

Weird. My Android phone is rooted, I have AdAway applying hosts lists system-wide thanks to root access, if I wanted to I could flash a custom ROM on it, but instead I riced it out with apps that utilize root access to modify the system UI. I also do various hacks and tricks in Windows as it isn't a locked down black box and it still gives me a fair bit of freedom to dick around with the OS.

Why is it that you assume Android/Windows users can't do anything with their operating systems after rightly stating that generalizing a group won't make your generalization hold truth? Perhaps you should start holding others to the same standard that you hold yourself to.

 

[snotang]

Weird. My Android phone is rooted, I have AdAway applying hosts lists system-wide thanks to root access, if I wanted to I could flash a custom ROM on it, but instead I riced it out with apps that utilize root access to modify the system UI. I also do various hacks and tricks in Windows as it isn't a locked down black box and it still gives me a fair bit of freedom to dick around with the OS.

Why is it that you assume Android/Windows users can't do anything with their operating systems after rightly stating that generalizing a group won't make your generalization hold truth? Perhaps you should start holding others to the same standard that you hold yourself to.

Congratulations, you own one of the 5% of phones sold with Android that permit you to do the things you do. You are smart enough to root your phone but somehow not smart enough to understand what "usually" means, or why a set of phones might not be typically described as a "population".

I have never claimed that Android/Windows users "can't do anything with their operating systems", unless you are butchering the English language to instead mean that I have claimed that "there exists something that Android/Windows users can't do with their operating systems", which is trivially true. In fact, in the post you quote, I haven't stated a single thing that Windows users can't do, and one thing that they can (installing an adblocker).

You seem to misunderstand my speaking about what is technically and lawfully possible with a device or software as some sort of commentary on their users. All the technical skill in the world will not prevent a lawsuit, nor will it allow you to divine source code or signing keys from thin air. I have neither said nor implied "you can't do this because you're stupid because you use Windows", only "you can't do this on Windows".

If I wanted to speak about the nature, attitude, and abilities of the population of Android and Windows users, my posts would be far longer, and I'm already excessively verbose as it is.



On an unrelated note, why is it that when "customization" or "configuration" is brought up in a computing context, it is almost exclusively referring to altering the user interface? Have I just been diving "under the hood" so long that I've become out of touch? Is replacing entire components of the software stack that have nothing to do with the user interface not "customization", or is it just far less common? The single most common configuration I do is trying to get a program to proxy its network traffic (and in some cases stop sending network traffic altogether). My second most common configuration is ensuring that every program gets built with maximum debugging information, and it isn't stripped (by the time you know you need it, it's usually too late).

What non-UI customization / configuration do you do?

 

[Sake Ojone]

In case you still aren't clear. I will summarize. No I don't personally care if anyone moves to Linux. I'm willing to help people that want to. And how I feel about it, isn't speaking for anyone else, but myself, and definitely isn't the opinion of whatever Linux community you are talking about.

There are linux users who want as many people as possible to use linux as they want software support from companies that don't currently target it, such as the adobe suite or multiplayer games, and there are linux users who don't want to become tech support for tech illiterate people that don't read documentation and aren't interested in contributing to linux in any way.
Linux is fragmented in its audio stack, display server, init system, and also, naturally, in its community, which is not a single block and does not have common goals

 

[Fcret]

The software that you use is not the software that millions of other people use. Try learning how to look at something from someone else's perspective. Sometimes this "poorly-written garbage" has to be used by someone, it only exists on Windows and there is no magic FOSS alternative.

I'm not interested in the windows normienigger "just shotgun a billion blackboxes into my ring 0 fam" perspective. If someone wants to be gangraped by coercive software vendors, there are operating systems they can do that under. I'm steadfastly opposed to changing linux to make getting gangraped easier.

It sounds like you should just stick to using Windows tbqhwy

 

[Akerman]

Do you care if people use Linux or not?

I sympathize with you trying to get shit to work on Linux and then a bunch of retards attack you for not "using it correctly", sorry about that. The channel Bread on Penguins that I showed earlier is a rare Linux user with social skills, and I highly recommend watching those vids if you don't want to deal with this shit. -- I personally also don't think people should care so much about what someone else uses, though. Ken Thompson who literally designed UNIX actually switched from Apple after decades of using it to a fucking Raspberry Pie running a Debian fork. That sounds retarded to me, but it clearly works for him so who am I to really judge? -- I say use whatever makes you feel the most comfortable using your computer. There is only one objectively holy OS anyways, and that is TempleOS. I am not worthy enough to use that. Lord, save me, I am niggercattle.


In completely unrelated news, according to Phoronix, Steam usage on Linux reached a recent high of 2.69% in May. Arch Linux now makes up 10% of those Linux users. THE YEAR OF LORNIX IS HERE!!!!1 (it is not) I fully expect a Jeetahar video on this shortly. "Michaelsoft is TREMBLING, guys n gals". - In all seriousness, I am actually shocked at how CachyOS have made such strides among Linux users on Steam. Anyone here actually use it?

 

[Anti Snigger]

I set up a home server Sunday for VCS, custom packages, backups, etc., etc.

I'm having a hell of a fucking time getting the damn thing to reliably be able to connect to my desktop or laptop over LAN.
I've narrowed the problem down to my router's handling of ARP. Restarting the router completely fixes the problem for a period of several hours, and then randomly everything drops, and nmap on any of my three devices only shows the router itself, nothing can ping itself, etc.
I'm wondering if there's anything I can do on my server to force the ARP table to be refreshed on the router reliably, ideally something I can run as a task every few hours or in response to failures.
I've seen a lot of stuff online about OpenWRT, but because I'm a cheap nigger, I'm presently leasing this router, and I'm unwilling to use OSS firmware until I can look into it more, I also have shit like TVs and other normie tier garbage I use and I don't want the hassle of debugging every single one of them.

I've tested having the server on ethernet, and the problem doesn't seem to be affected by it. Any insights are appreciated. I'm having fun when it's working, but having my network crap out at random isn't my favorite.

 

[DavidS877]

I've narrowed the problem down to my router's handling of ARP. Restarting the router completely fixes the problem for a period of several hours, and then randomly everything drops, and nmap on any of my three devices only shows the router itself, nothing can ping itself, etc.

The thing is that the router shouldn't be doing ARP for other devices, they should respond on their own. You shouldn't even need a router. Are you going by name or IP address or tried both.
It sounds almost like some security setting on the router where it's setup not to let devices talk to each other. Sometimes names like "Network segmentation" or "Isolation" Have you tried with multiple devices on Ethernet seeing if they can communicate with each other consistently.

 

[Anti Snigger]

The thing is that the router shouldn't be doing ARP for other devices, they should respond on their own. You shouldn't even need a router. Are you going by name or IP address or tried both.
It sounds almost like some security setting on the router where it's setup not to let devices talk to each other. Sometimes names like "Network segmentation" or "Isolation" Have you tried with multiple devices on Ethernet seeing if they can communicate with each other consistently.

I've been mainly using direct IP, but I recently set up a .local declaration on the server.
I checked the router settings as far as client isolation, guest networks to make sure those aren't enabled, I can't find shit. Through this I did find that netgear is less than well regarded as far as how bad their settings are.
As far as ethernet, I don't have a switch, in fact I only have the one cable, and I'd prefer if possible just to be able to use my local network as a local network.
The bizarre thing to me is that my roku TV never has issues pairing with any of my devices, and as far as I can tell, it's W/LAN as well.

 

[DavidS877]

I've been mainly using direct IP, but I recently set up a .local declaration on the server.
I checked the router settings as far as client isolation, guest networks to make sure those aren't enabled, I can't find shit. Through this I did find that netgear is less than well regarded as far as how bad their settings are.
As far as ethernet, I don't have a switch, in fact I only have the one cable, and I'd prefer if possible just to be able to use my local network as a local network.
The bizarre thing to me is that my roku TV never has issues pairing with any of my devices, and as far as I can tell, it's W/LAN as well.

I recommend checking Ethernet not because you want to use it but to try and nail down where the problem is. Can the desktop and laptop reach each other directly when the router goes away? Can some or all of the devices ping by IP the other devices on the network like the Roku or anything else both when things are working and when they aren't. If you want to get into fancier stuff look up "Wireshark" but that's getting advanced and seeing if node A sends an arp request does node B see it and respond, etc.

Obviously these aren't specific recommendations but if you can figure out what's going wrong, and it could just be a shitty router, but hopefully others have had a similar issue.

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

I set up a home server Sunday for VCS, custom packages, backups, etc., etc.

I'm having a hell of a fucking time getting the damn thing to reliably be able to connect to my desktop or laptop over LAN.
I've narrowed the problem down to my router's handling of ARP. Restarting the router completely fixes the problem for a period of several hours, and then randomly everything drops, and nmap on any of my three devices only shows the router itself, nothing can ping itself, etc.
I'm wondering if there's anything I can do on my server to force the ARP table to be refreshed on the router reliably, ideally something I can run as a task every few hours or in response to failures.
I've seen a lot of stuff online about OpenWRT, but because I'm a cheap nigger, I'm presently leasing this router, and I'm unwilling to use OSS firmware until I can look into it more, I also have shit like TVs and other normie tier garbage I use and I don't want the hassle of debugging every single one of them.

I've tested having the server on ethernet, and the problem doesn't seem to be affected by it. Any insights are appreciated. I'm having fun when it's working, but having my network crap out at random isn't my favorite.

these kinds of things, are why I hate networking stuff. Not linux specific or anything. Just dealing with network stuff is always a huge pita, once you try going a bit deeper. and I always dread it.

 

[Anti Snigger]

I recommend checking Ethernet not because you want to use it but to try and nail down where the problem is. Can the desktop and laptop reach each other directly when the router goes away? Can some or all of the devices ping by IP the other devices on the network like the Roku or anything else both when things are working and when they aren't. If you want to get into fancier stuff look up "Wireshark" but that's getting advanced and seeing if node A sends an arp request does node B see it and respond, etc.

Obviously these aren't specific recommendations but if you can figure out what's going wrong, and it could just be a shitty router, but hopefully others have had a similar issue.

No, so the devices are showing signs of being totally isolated, as I mentioned, nmap is showing only the router for each. I'm going to debug it further, and do what I need to, but for me, having to monkeypatch around the problem

these kinds of things, are why I hate networking stuff. Not linux specific or anything. Just dealing with network stuff is always a huge pita, once you try going a bit deeper. and I always dread it.

I can spend $3200 on a nice ass setup only to be foiled by a fucking $50 router. It's funny in a way

 

[Rust Troony]

CachyOS have made such strides among Linux users on Steam. Anyone here actually use it?

Its marketed as a "gaming distro" and is full of placebo performance improvements, so people use it to game.

I think its also a distro with a "handheld edition" (SteamOS knockoff) so that might also be why.

 

[Slav Power]

I'm not interested in the windows normienigger "just shotgun a billion blackboxes into my ring 0 fam" perspective. If someone wants to be gangraped by coercive software vendors, there are operating systems they can do that under. I'm steadfastly opposed to changing linux to make getting gangraped easier.

It sounds like you should just stick to using Windows tbqhwy

Ah, so you're just a ragebaiting /g/tard then, okay. Hope the hat sticker and the reply notification have satisfied your dopamine needs for today.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

Installed profile-sync-daemon to try to get Firefox to stop writing 20+ MB every so often when I'm online, and it's still doing that crap. Maybe writing to "virtual memory"?

edit: Or maybe it's YouTube?