Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Spanish Civil War didn’t ring any bells? Tony was exploring all revolutions.

So the Rebels are the commies?

 

[Imperial Citizen]

So the Rebels are the commies?

They are the Continental Army, the Reds, the Viet Cong, Haganah, the Popular Front, the Maccabees, every single revolutionary movement in history.

The Empire represents every single tyranny in history. From the Romans to a left-leaning perception of America.

 

[Ghostse]

my main complaint with her is that she needed to die near-ish the end
that way there's no questions about "where the fuck was she during LITERALLY EVERYTHING" and it helps to sell Annie's issues about losing those close to him

The main thing that drives me insane is:
Her intended death was fucking Kino.
Rebels was a retarded series with muslim space aladin, but Annakin's former padawan facing down Darth Vader to buy time for the founders of the Rebellion to escape is bad ass on so many levels.
It not only shows just how far Darth Vader has gone, literally killing a part of his former life as a jedi, and we're shown Vader hunting down one of the approximately 12 billion Jedi who survived (the supposed) Order 66.
She dies nobly, her death having meaning.
And it would cast absolutely zero shade on her skills of a Jedi that she loses to Vader.
It was an excellent character death, a good way to end a character arc, and removes any linger questions about her fate during the Rebellion.


But Furlonli needed to goon to orange jailbait puss so he forced the space-time anus into star wars.

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

Naboo even rebelled against the Empire once, if I recall.

I always thought that if they were going to reboot the post OT era. It would be a good idea to have Luke rebuild the Jedi on Naboo. Hire Jar Jar as a caretaker and stuff

 

[Eventide]

"older" as in ahsoka is like 17 not 14 or something. idk what age she's supposed to be whether it's tcw or rebels her show tbh, other than she's jailbait in tcw

I think she was canonically 16 when it happened. & the scene was creepy in context - Ahsoka was pretending to be Lux Bonteri's fiance (hiding her Jedi status), and Bo was like "but why? She scrawny, not thicc".

This compilation of all Bo Katan scenes on Youtube is interesting, since it illustrates how Disney Star Wars fundamentally misunderstood Bo's character (as she was portrayed in the Clone Wars - i.e. a sociopathic terrorist) to make her a good guy in the Mandalorian show.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

I think she was canonically 16 when it happened. & the scene was creepy in context - Ahsoka was pretending to be Lux Bonteri's fiance (hiding her Jedi status), and Bo was like "but why? She scrawny, not thicc".

This compilation of all Bo Katan scenes on Youtube is interesting, since it illustrates how Disney Star Wars fundamentally misunderstood Bo's character (as she was portrayed in the Clone Wars - i.e. a sociopathic terrorist) to make her a good guy in the Mandalorian show.

Yeah, it's really funny how she gets to cause the downfall of her entire civilization in both body and soul. First by helping to depose her sister and then the soul by losing the Darksaber in battle.

 

[JayseeDenton]

to make her a good guy in the Mandalorian show.

Disney has pussified every character they inherited without fail.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Spanish Civil War didn’t ring any bells? Tony was exploring all revolutions.

Yes, and in that war, the Spanish Republicans were killing Catholics, who were the majority of people in Spain, causing the people to side with the Nationalists, killing the Republicans. Translated to Star Wars, imagine if the Rebels began killing everyone who believed in the Force, Light or Dark, and this drove the Force-believing galactic populace into the arms of the Sith and the Empire, who protected them by killing all the Rebels.

I don’t see that.

That's your problem. I can differentiate from the Rebellion as it was portrayed in the Original SW films and EU, and the way they're being portrayed now. Both Gilroy and Filoni have destroyed them. The Rebels suffered a worse character shift than even the fucking Mandalorians.

You have to remember that Tony Gilroy didn’t give a fuck about the lore. He remembers the original trilogy, but I’m sure that anything outside of that was ignored. He was depicting how revolutions develop with Andor, using Star Wars as a lens to explore the concept.

Even the Original Trilogy had the Rebels remain squeaky-clean. Leia saw Han as an outcast because he was self-serving scum, and Luke openly sacrifices advantages for the sake of saving those he loved. The OT Rebels were political idealists who believed in things like honor, truth, and justice. Someone like Cassian Andor would've been regarded as a renegade by them. And they would trust Luthen as far as they can shoot him.

Revolutions that develop through terrorism end in terror; as we see in the French Revolution. If Andor was being realistic, Palpatine's death would lead to the kind of chaos, betrayal, murder, and slaughter that would make anything Tarkin did look like a joke in comparison. Then Thrawn retakes the Imperial throne and makes a new Empire that is even more tyrannical and more powerful than Palpatine's Empire ever was, as a response to Luthen's rebellion throwing everything into chaos.

Thrawn would find Palpatine's proverbial crown in the gutter, and he'd pick it up with his proverbial sword. That's where Andor's revolution should've ended.

To me, it’s an examination of the dirty part of revolution. Look at the American Revolutionary War. The narrative is about militia rose up at Lexington and Concord, or General Washington crossing the Delaware. Less praised are the tarring and feathering and property destruction of British tax officials. The treatment of British loyalists are not given mainstream attention. There was the spying and criminal skullduggery.

We learned a lot of the tarring and feathering of the tax officials, even at school. That, and we also learned much of how Spain and France carried the war, not the Continentals. If the Bourbons decided to turn a deaf ear to the woes of Washington, the American Revolution would've ended in failure. We'd just be calling it the "colonial rebellion" and we'd just be talking about how stupid it was that they rebelled.

The Sons of Liberty were doing what could be considered terrorism, but they were part of the foundation that led to the establishment of the United States of America.

I'm sure tossing tea into the harbor is not the same as shooting your own allies or pushing a population to rebel, knowing they will lose and get massacred, just so you can bitch about it. The Continentals picked their battles and their allies wisely. Andor's rebels did not.

Luthen’s Axis is Star Wars version of the Sons of Liberty.

False. The Sons of Liberty didn't betray their allies the way Luthen fed the Separatists to the Empire to protect his ISB mole, or the way Luthen killed said mole to cover his tracks. They actually honored their alliances with parties like the French Bourbons.

You could trust the Sons of Liberty. You can't trust Luthen's Axis network for shit. The shit they put Lonni through, only to kill him like a punk, shows that they can't be trusted. They do all that horrible shit, just so they can recreate the same clown show we saw in TPM that couldn't even reign in local powers, let alone enforce laws. What a fucking joke.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

The main thing that drives me insane is:
Her intended death was fucking Kino.
Rebels was a retarded series with muslim space aladin, but Annakin's former padawan facing down Darth Vader to buy time for the founders of the Rebellion to escape is bad ass on so many levels.
It not only shows just how far Darth Vader has gone, literally killing a part of his former life as a jedi, and we're shown Vader hunting down one of the approximately 12 billion Jedi who survived (the supposed) Order 66.
She dies nobly, her death having meaning.
And it would cast absolutely zero shade on her skills of a Jedi that she loses to Vader.
It was an excellent character death, a good way to end a character arc, and removes any linger questions about her fate during the Rebellion.


But Furlonli needed to goon to orange jailbait puss so he forced the space-time anus into star wars.

It's honestly interesting that Filoni has ruined both of the decent character deaths he had in Rebels with Clone Wars characters.

Ahsoka had a pretty great death but lol time travel.

Darth Maul being killed by Obi-Wan and realizing his revenge quest was meaningless was good, but Filoni really wants to make another spinoff with Maul, and not only that but tried to set him up as this main villain for a hypothetical Solo sequel.

 

[BullfrogBill]

Darth Maul being killed by Obi-Wan and realizing his revenge quest was meaningless was good, but Filoni really wants to make another spinoff with Maul, and not only that but tried to set him up as this main villain for a hypothetical Solo sequel.

From what I'm aware of Maul in Solo was actually a set up for the Obi Wan Kenobi movie which was supposed to take place around the same time in the Star Wars universe and was supposed to be the next release I believe but Solo flopped so hard they pushed the movie back and eventually reworked it into a series. Apparently Dave Filoni had a bitch fit behind the scenes about the fact that Maul's death was already in Rebels and whined to Kathleen to get Maul out of the script NOW! NOW! NOW! At least that's the story I've heard slung around out there.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

They are the Continental Army, the Reds, the Viet Cong, Haganah, the Popular Front, the Maccabees, every single revolutionary movement in history.

That makes zero fucking sense. Some of those rebels fight for the sake of private property and religion, others try to do away with private property and religion.

The Alliance fought for the sake of the senatorial aristocracy and the established Jedi religion, hence why they deferred authority to senatorial aristocrats like Leia and Mon Mothma, and they kept their belief in the Force and the Jedi even though most Jedi were already dead.

Trying to make them into ANTIFA-style rebels makes zero fucking sense, considering who they fought for, what they represented, and who fucking led them.

The Empire represents every single tyranny in history. From the Romans to a left-leaning perception of America.

That makes more sense; although technically, the Empire wasn't a tyranny until ANH, when they finally did away with the Senate and enforced order with bayonet rule alone.

Prior to that, they were an electoral monarchy/senatorial democracy, but the Emperor had the majority of senatorial votes on his side. Ironically enough, they had more variety in religion, what with some believing in the Force and others openly doubting it. So everything the Emperor was doing had Senate support, since his supporters just outvoted Rebel senators. The Empire could've remained a democracy with a Senate, and the Emperor would still be getting his way 99% of the time, because the Senate majority was on his side.

In fact, it was actually kind of politically risky for the Emperor to get rid of the Senate and explode Alderaan, when it would've been more prudent to keep using his senate majority to stamp out voices of dissent, then he can just blockade Alderaan the way the Trade Federation blockaded Naboo. The Emperor could've ruled forever as the enforcer of Senate democracy, and he'd still get his way, because most of the Senate just plain agreed with him.

There's a reason why the Rebellion was hiding out in an icy shithole like Hoth, instead of some densely-populated world held by Rebel loyalists. Most of the people either didn't care about the Empire or openly supported them, and only a tiny fraction bothered to rebel.

 

[samuraicrack]

Tankies and Redditors seem to be very much enjoying Andor.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Tankies and Redditors seem to be very much enjoying Andor.

Well, suffice to say "I called it." Andor is Star Wars for intellectual leftists and ANTIFA-types.

The only problem is, they bolted their violent revolution story onto a story that has a "happily ever after", which violent revolutions typically don't have. I mean, just look at the revolutions in France, Spain, Cambodia and China.

The American Revolution only had a happy ending because France and Spain tapped in for the Americans, and the Americans already had working colonial governments, so they just transferred power from the English crown to those local powers. You can't say the same thing for many Tankie revolutions that ended in a bloodbath.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

That makes zero fucking sense. Some of those rebels fight for the sake of private property and religion, others try to do away with private property and religion.

The Alliance fought for the sake of the senatorial aristocracy and the established Jedi religion, hence why they deferred authority to senatorial aristocrats like Leia and Mon Mothma, and they kept their belief in the Force and the Jedi even though most Jedi were already dead.

The underlying concept of the Rebellion is freedom. Freedom is a pure idea. It is why both conservatives and progressives can see themselves in the role of the Rebellion. That there is an unnatural force constraining people and it needs to be rejected.

To bring it back to the real world, both America and Vietnam were born out of independence movements from colonial powers. The ideologies of the movements were different, but at the core, they shared a desire to decide their own future as independent countries.

The Rebel Alliance is at all times a restoration of a Republic, the development of a new government system, the reestablishment of an ancient religion and a creation of a religious movement, an end to slavery and genocides, an overthrown of corrupt governments and corporations, an advancement of private enterprise and workers’ rights, and a chance to allow people to choose their own destiny.

Luke’s story is a heroic monomyth. The Rebel Alliance is a political monomyth.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

The underlying concept of the Rebellion is freedom. Freedom is a pure idea. It is why both conservatives and progressives can see themselves in the role of the Rebellion. That there is an unnatural force constraining people and it needs to be rejected.

Freedom is nebulous at best, and it can be defined on different sides. I mean, someone who thinks the Senate was full of corrupt assholes would see the Empire as freedom, and someone who sees the Empire as oppressive would define the Rebellion as freedom. Freedom can pretty much go either way.

Also, no. The true thing powering the Rebellion is its adherence to the old ways of the Senatorial Aristocracy and the Jedi Order, not just a nebulous idea of "Freedom". They believe that giving power back to the Senate would ensure freedom, and that the Jedi would be the guardians of it. They have a well-defined version of "freedom" that people like Count Dooku would see as oppressive.

To bring it back to the real world, both America and Vietnam were born out of independence movements from colonial powers. The ideologies of the movements were different, but at the core, they shared a desire to decide their own future as independent countries.

False. The North Vietnamese Communists were even more tyrannical than the British were, and they had no problems oppressing fellow Vietnamese to get the edge on the French, South Vietnam, or the Americans. Trying to equate the Sons of Liberty with the Vietcong betrays an understanding of history that would make fifth-graders look like history professors.

There is a reason why modern Vietnam is trying to run away from its Communist predecessors and trying to become a capitalist nation.

The Rebel Alliance is at all times a restoration of a Republic, the development of a new government system, the reestablishment of an ancient religion and a creation of a religious movement, an end to slavery and genocides, an overthrown of corrupt governments and corporations, an advancement of private enterprise and workers’ rights, and a chance to allow people to choose their own destiny.

False. It is called the "Alliance to Restore the Republic" for a reason. It is not the development of any new government system. As far as they're concerned, the Republic in the old days worked, so let's bring that back and remove the Empire. It's literally in their fucking name.

They're not making anything new, they're restoring something old.

Luke’s story is a heroic monomyth. The Rebel Alliance is a political monomyth.

Yes for Luke; no for the Alliance. If you try to connect the Alliance to the French and Communist revolutionaries, that would be a betrayal of what they fought for. Especially since the Alliance was big on private property and restoring the Senatorial Aristocracy and Jedi Religion to power, whereas the French and Communist Revolutions tried to downsize both the religious and the aristocratic elements of society.

 

[The Nothingness]

the Popular Front

Don't you mean the People's Front of Judea?

 

[samuraicrack]

Well, suffice to say "I called it." Andor is Star Wars for intellectual leftists and ANTIFA-types.

The only problem is, they bolted their violent revolution story onto a story that has a "happily ever after", which violent revolutions typically don't have. I mean, just look at the revolutions in France, Spain, Cambodia and China.

The American Revolution only had a happy ending because France and Spain tapped in for the Americans, and the Americans already had working colonial governments, so they just transferred power from the English crown to those local powers. You can't say the same thing for many Tankie revolutions that ended in a bloodbath.

I could be wrong because I haven't actually watched Andor but it seems like a good chunk of the shows messaging is about the complexities of revolution and how a good chunk of the time said revolutionaires become the thing they hate.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I could be wrong because I haven't actually watched Andor but it seems like a good chunk of the shows messaging is about the complexities of revolution and how a good chunk of the time said revolutionaires become the thing they hate.

View attachment 7458576

Not quite. The show practically says it's OK to have someone like Luthen who makes moral sacrifices so long as it's against the fascists. The more tidy Alliance Council are portrayed as aloof revolutionaries who don't know the true meaning of sacrifice. They even found a way to make Bail Organa look bad because he bad-mouths Luthen.

 

[God of Nothing]

It's honestly interesting that Filoni has ruined both of the decent character deaths he had in Rebels with Clone Wars characters.

Ahsoka had a pretty great death but lol time travel.

Darth Maul being killed by Obi-Wan and realizing his revenge quest was meaningless was good, but Filoni really wants to make another spinoff with Maul, and not only that but tried to set him up as this main villain for a hypothetical Solo sequel.

it was actually really good, too good for that really meh show

i feel bad for witwer because he is an honest fan from how he talks about star wars

 

[LovisXVI]

it was actually really good, too good for that really meh show

i feel bad for witwer because he is an honest fan from how he talks about star wars

He also does a great rendition of Maul, makes him sound exactly the right level of unhinged and violent. His rendition of Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter is great for good reason.