Christian theology thread for Christians - Deus homo factus est naturam erante, mundus renovatus est a Christo regnante

[Mad_Dog]

Well, the Bible says we can judge a doctrine by its fruits. . . .So we have sexual hypocrisy. We have financial hypocrisy. We have hypocrisy of all kinds. Where do you see ANY evidence that the Holy Spirit indwells ANYONE?!?!?!?!

What are the fruits of the Holy Spirit?

If we don’t sin does that mean Jesus died for nothing?

Can I have a little sin as a treat?

You don't need more time in purgatory. You've sinned enough for 3 lifetimes already, you can stop now.

 

[Preacher ✝]

The Wisdom of Bl. Fulton Sheen

Day 190 - The person who thinks only of himself says only prayers of petition; the one who thinks of his neighbor says prayers of intercession; whoever thinks only of loving and serving God says prayers of abandonment to God's will, and this is the prayer of the saints.

 

[Cassius Crayfish]

Well, the Bible says we can judge a doctrine by its fruits. The doctrine of the Holy Spirit has produced fruits of spiritual pride and destruction. People think God lives inside of them and talks to them. People think God told them to get gay married or God told them to go into usurious debt. (John Calvin, for example, was a big fan of usury and vociferously argued in favor of its licitness and appropriateness.) This is why Protestant America is a usurious death-trap. No, I'm not equating Protestantism with Calvinism; rather, I am using Calvin as a representative example of the widespread tolerance for and even love of usury within "Christian" America.

So we have sexual hypocrisy. We have financial hypocrisy. We have hypocrisy of all kinds. Where do you see ANY evidence that the Holy Spirit indwells ANYONE?!?!?!?!

1 John 4:1-3: "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognise the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world."

If people think that the Holy Spirit means that whatever they think at any one moment in the Spirit talking to them, they have not read the Scriptures. This is particularly evident with those churches that are promoting things that Christ very clearly commands against, like gay 'marriage'. They are producing fruit: the fruit of the antichrist, because they are anti-Christ and his teaching.

Similarly, if people think that the Spirit makes someone perfect immediately, they have not read the Scriptures. We can and should expected frustration even within ourselves at the sin that continues to come out of us. As Paul writes in Romans 7: "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

"So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin."

This same Paul was, very obviously, a completely different person after his Damascene conversion, and one of many who evidenced in their own lives the work of the Spirit in changing them. That's what the Spirit does - he changes people over time to become more like Jesus. This work will not be completed this side of eternity.

 

[Eddie Riggs]

The Wisdom of Bl. Fulton Sheen

Day 190 - The person who thinks only of himself says only prayers of petition; the one who thinks of his neighbor says prayers of intercession; whoever thinks only of loving and serving God says prayers of abandonment to God's will, and this is the prayer of the saints.

Have you listened to Seraphim Rose?

 

[AnsemSoD1]

What is everyone's thoughts on Kenneth "Demonface" Cuckland and Joelke Olsteen?

 

[Cassius Crayfish]

What is everyone's thoughts on Kenneth "Demonface" Cuckland and Joelke Olsteen?

Kenneth Copeland may be possessed by some kind of evil spirit. He makes weird noises all the time, his eyes are discomforting - and he preaches a false gospel.

 

[Eddie Riggs]

What is everyone's thoughts on Kenneth "Demonface" Cuckland and Joelke Olsteen?

Snake oil salesmen.

 

[AnsemSoD1]

Snake oil salesmen.

I agree with @Cassius Crayfish, that there is genuinely something physically wrong with Copeland, like a slightly less degenerated version of George Soros in my eyes.

 

[Key the Metal Shitposter]

I'm Lutheran and I'll stay Lutheran. I find it more respectable to remain what you were born into instead of joining the denomination window-shopping trend where almost all of them inevitably settle either for Papism or Bearded One-ism.

"I'm norse pagan and I'll stay norse pagan. I find it more respectable to remain what you were born into instead of..."
-8th century German

 

[Eddie Riggs]

Martin Luther did nothing wrong

 

[Derrick]

Be fruitful, and multiply.

Sure, if my wife and I were Adam and Eve and there were literally no other humans alive perhaps we would mass produce children like we're a factory to populate the Earth.

If you think you can afford 6 kids, and can keep up with them, be my guest. For me, one requires enough time, attention, and care I can't imagine having more.

I'm Lutheran and I'll stay Lutheran. I find it more respectable to remain what you were born into instead of joining the denomination

I disagree, I disagree quite strongly in fact. As humans we should be constantly investigating and challenging what we believe, changing our beliefs whenever we encounter new information that disproves them. Today I am a non-denominational Christian, in ten years time I could be a Catholic, a Muslim, or even an Atheist, depending on what new information I am presented with, if somebody shows me something that completely vindicates one side I'm not going to stick my head in the sand over it.

 

[Chicha Drinker]

Sure, if my wife and I were Adam and Eve and there were literally no other humans alive perhaps we would mass produce children like we're a factory to populate the Earth.

If you think you can afford 6 kids, and can keep up with them, be my guest. For me, one requires enough time, attention, and care I can't imagine having more.

I could make a response but thats leaving the topic of theology and entering racism so ill hold off. (Working on number 2 tho)

 

[Derrick]

I could make a response but thats leaving the topic of theology and entering racism so ill hold off.

I'm sorry to hear your thinking that (though I'm glad you held off on it). As Christians we should eschew all forms of Racism (Galatians 3:28 ) and hatred towards our fellow man (1st John 4:20). Remember Christ died for all and as a result all Christians (Hebrews 10:10), regardless of background, are worthy or his love, and if all are worthy of his loves then who are we to deny it to another Christian?

 

[Chicha Drinker]

I'm sorry to hear your thinking that (though I'm glad you held off on it). As Christians we should eschew all forms of Racism (Galatians 3:28 ) and hatred towards our fellow man (1st John 4:20). Remember Christ died for all and as a result all Christians (Hebrews 10:10), regardless of background, are worthy or his love, and if all are worthy of his loves then who are we to deny it to another Christian?

Less so racism in the hatred sense, more so a developed sense of personal race and general neutrality toward others, following observed behavior patterns. since even with behavior patterns being what they are, the human element means there are those who can break the mold and be exceptional. These views have labeled me as racist.


Of course, all fll short of the glory of God, and all will be judged in the end, we truly all are in the same boat

 

[Cassius Crayfish]

Sure, if my wife and I were Adam and Eve and there were literally no other humans alive perhaps we would mass produce children like we're a factory to populate the Earth.

That's not what you were talking about. You said you didn't undestand the desire to have many children. I am telling you where the desire comes from. We, not just the first humans, were created with the desire to fill the earth and subdue it.

Today I am a non-denominational Christian, in ten years time I could be a Catholic, a Muslim, or even an Atheist, depending on what new information I am presented with, if somebody shows me something that completely vindicates one side I'm not going to stick my head in the sand over it

While I don't disagree with the principal, I think it it worth saying that there is no chance that new information is likely to presented that would make Islam the truth. And, furthermore, that if we really can say with confidence that Jesus is Lord of all, then that is true across time - nothing in the past or future can or will happen that makes that untrue.

 

[Cassius Crayfish]

Martin Luther did nothing wrong

I don't think even Luther would agree with that. But he certainly did a very important thing right: he understood how God justifies us through his free gift of grace, and brought that good news to the masses for them to hear, repent, and believe for their salvation.

 

[Derrick]

I think it it worth saying that there is no chance that new information is likely to presented that would make Islam the truth. And, furthermore, that if we really can say with confidence that Jesus is Lord of all,

Theres some truth to that, but if, when debating with non-Christians we expect them to be open to converting, how could we not extend the same willingness back to them? As humans we should after all seek out truth, and if some new piece of information is irrefutable proof against our faith we'd be foolish not heed it.

Less so racism in the hatred sense, more so a developed sense of personal race and general neutrality toward others, following observed behavior patterns. since even with behavior patterns being what they are, the human element means there are those who can break the mold and be exceptional. These views have labeled me as racist.

I'd argue theres not much difference between hatred and "a sense of personal race".

Regardless I would just remind you that, "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus".- Galatians 3:28. As Christians we have no room for such ideals of 'in-group' and 'out-group', the only 'in-group' we should be concerned with is "Christ follower" or not. And if they are genuine Christ followers the rest will take care of itself.

 

[Mad_Dog]

I don't think even Luther would agree with that. But he certainly did a very important thing right: he understood how God justifies us through his free gift of grace, and brought that good news to the masses for them to hear, repent, and believe for their salvation.

Let's read the official position of the Catholic Chruch, shall we?
In
Part 3: Life in Christ
Section 1: Man's Vocation — Life in the Spirit
Chapter 3: God's Salvation: Law and Grace
Article 2: Grace and Justification (§1987 - 2029)
of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, we read:

"Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life." - CCC 1996
Jn 1:12-18; 17:3; Rom 8:14-17; 2 Pet 1:3-4.

"The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus' proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high. "Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man." - CCC 1989
Mt 4:17. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1528.

"Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life" - CCC 1992
Council of Trent (1547): DS 1529. Rom 3:21-26.

Let's go back a little further, to the 1566 Catechism of the Council of Trent:
"For as the eye, however perfect, cannot see without the aid of light, so no man, unless he be first illumined by the grace of God, however perfect his observance of the law by the force of nature, can in any way acquire the grace of justification."
(Part III, Chapter IX, On the First Commandment)

Was it worth it, Martin?

 

[Bob McLearning]

What are the fruits of the Holy Spirit?

Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

There's not a human being on the face of the earth who actually displays any of those traits with any consistency.

You certainly don't. Just look in the mirror. Nor do any of your family members. Nor do any of your friends. Nor do any of the human beings on the face of the earth. The "saved" are indistinguishable from the "perishing," in terms of their life choices and behaviors.

If Christianity actually worked, meaning the Spirit of God actually lived inside of you and remade you into a new creation, then you would be better than you are. And Christians in general would be better than they are. But every thought in the Christian's heart is wicked continually, as is true for all non-Christians. Your fake three-headed God doesn't actually make any of you holy, yet if your doctrine of the Trinity and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit were actually true, then you would be holy. Yet you aren't. And you never will be.

 

[Slap47]

Jokes aside, no protestant can ever complain about the sales of indulgences, that happened over 5 centuries ago by corrupt church officials, when we see what they do today.

Why can't they complain? The argument is that only God can forgive sins, not the institution of the Church.
Likewise, travesties like indulgences, simony, Albigensian/Hussite genocides, Medici/Borgia Papacies did in fact happen. Theoretically the doctrine is supposed to be unchanging, but it clearly has changed - whether that be how people understand it or how it is practiced.

Martin Luther did nothing wrong

Backing the nobility over the masses of people who believed in his message during the German Peasant War was pretty messed up. Those peasants had valid grievances.