Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

I feel as though the Borg were castrated long before Voyager. They appear once in DS9 and never again. Their appearance is referred to by Sisko as a "scare."

 

[Calandrino]

Really I absolutely despise what the Voyager writers did to Q. Yes I know the ratings were tanking and they were desperate to get more viewers but damn son you went and castrated the prime villain of the Star Trek universe in less then 3 episodes.

Many such cases. Voyager sucked so bad that they managed to ruin stuff all the way from the other side of the galaxy.

 

[Sweeter and Savoury]

Brooks was great as Hawk.

Take care Grandpaw your showing your age.

 

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

And he was always terrible with action scenes going back to Dune. I don't like Picard because he gets into fights, I like him when he's negotiating deals and politely threatening people.

He is a very convincing diplomat. Avery Brooks was far more convincing as a soldier, but Brooks had more action roles in general. Brooks was great as Hawk.

I think I saw something in an SF Debris video saying that Kirk is the guy you get to end a war, while Picard is the guy you get to prevent a war.

The Ensigns of Command (episode with the Sheliak and colonists that won't leave) has some peak Picard diplomacy because not only does he out legalese the alien pedants, but has that fantastic scene near the end where he cuts them off and lets them stew while walking around on the bridge and inspecting the plaque. It's one of my favourite scenes in the entire series because he fuckin owns those pricks and it rules.

I always loved the big smile on Riker's face as he, Worf, and Troi watched him screw around.

He caught Main Character Syndrome and was agitating for more romance, action, and a greater focus on Picard from the middle of season 2 or possibly season 3. It's why they started having "picard goes it alone" episodes. The whole thing with Vaush, Inner Light, Chain of Command, and Picard doing that whole John McClane impression in Starship Mine. Stewart and his bloating ego is the reason Nemesis had that pointless beach buggy chase and the reason why Insurrection had such a retarded plot. Worked out ok for First Contact, because there was enough going on around him to make the action scenes not so out of place. The rest? Bleh. His fault. Arrogant sod. They should have picked Brian Blessed instead.

That's where Picard makes sense as an older man. He's experienced, diplomatic, intelligent, and capable of countering brute force with wit and determination. He's not an action hero, but a man whose true strength is his compassion and intellect.

Remember in First Contact where Picard becoming more violent was treated as a bad thing?

What was going through Stewart's head while filming that movie?

Which is funny because in production order it's like... the first episode of S3.

Think about that a moment. The crew of TNG, after making Shades of Grey, went and made Ensigns of Command.

Talk about learning from your mistakes!

In general, it's hard to believe TNG was able to get its shit together so suddenly. Voyager and DS9 were okay in their early years and only got better later on, but TNG? We got "The Naked Now", "Code of Honor", and "The Last Outpost" back to back. Somehow, the writing got leagues better starting from Season 3.

In Q Who there's a moment in the conference room where Riker chews Q out over the lost crewmembers.

Story goes that in the original script, Q had an over-the-top reaction with something like "Shut up! Or be destroyed!" It was John and the director that insisted Q just remained chilled out in the chair and replies, "oh please."

It absolutely proves your point because John was right. Q being dismissive is way more chilling and indicative of his power than throwing a cartman level "respect mah authoritah!"

Technically, we already had someone like that in TOS. He was also a child like Cartman.

And there is nothing you can do about it, he's beyond powerful, beyond morality and beyond our understanding...well at least until Voyager when they completely fucked over the Q and brought them down because not even the mighty Q Continuum can best Janeway.

Really I absolutely despise what the Voyager writers did to Q. Yes I know the ratings were tanking and they were desperate to get more viewers but damn son you went and castrated the prime villain of the Star Trek universe in less then 3 episodes.

I really hated how that show assumed that everyone in the Continum liked dressing up in older clothes for fun, when our Q made it clear he dresses up as past soldiers as a way to mock Picard and his crew.

Even the Picard series understood this by having Q make himself look older to "catch up" to Picard.

 

[Sweeter and Savoury]

Hmm I always just thought Trelane was a Q just a very "young" one.

 

[William Murderface]

The Voyager episode Death Wish with the Q who wanted to die really was one of their better episodes. Not only did it explore the idea of suicide, but our Q even acknowledged that since hanging out with humans, especially Picard, he had lost his edge and became tamer or more domesticated. He needed to get back that wink in his eye and screwing around with humanity while also teaching them a lesson along the way. It's just too bad Voyager never really followed that up and instead gave us the US Civil War and Q makes a baby with Mrs. Q stuff. Picard got humbled by Q but none of that for Janeway.

I mentioned before that the show Picard was dreck, but that last bit with Picard and Q as Q was dying was gold. "Even gods have favorites, and you've always been one of mine," was a great line and sums up his relationship with the captain so well.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

Picard got humbled by Q but none of that for Janeway.

Can't hurt Janeway's plot armor.

I mentioned before that the show Picard was dreck, but that last bit with Picard and Q as Q was dying was gold. "Even gods have favorites, Jean-Luc, and you've always been one of mine," was a great line and sums up his relationship with the captain so well.

It doesn't help that Michelle Hurd got cast in Picard. She is not a good actress at all. She was awful in Ash vs. Evil Dead as well. Why not get Penny Johnson or something? There are plenty of good black actresses and they picked Michelle Hurd.

 

[Sweeter and Savoury]

hmmm was Janeway the first modern "girlboss"?

She fits all the criteria: she's stronk, she don't need no man, the men in her life are all morons. She never loses, she never gets surprised, her only "equal" is another woman (7of9). She can't be beat and to top it all off she even saves herself by doing the time travel thing.

Startling to think the trend started that long ago and I just never noticed. Not that I watched more the a handful of Voyager episodes but still I should have seen it coming.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

Mary Sues have been around since forever.

 

[Miller]

They absolutely did accept submissions as far back as tng.

That's how Ronald D. Moore and a few others got hired.

I wonder what would happen if I wrote an amateur screenplay/pitch and sent it to Paramount?

Straight to the trash. They don't allow that anymore, thanks to the Writer's Guild.

In fairness, the majority of the E-D sets are redressed Motion Picture sets (engineering, sickbay, battle bridge, most of the corridors), so it evens out.

and the Ten Forward was redressed as the President's Office in The Undiscovered Country.

Yeah, if there’s one thing Ron Moore’s known for, it’s feel good finales. Who could forget Adama building that retirement cabin with Laura on Earth, settling down after all the horror?

Oh.

View attachment 7566233

That was a reference to Generations, they shot the sequence the same way.
The set decorators also had a bit of fun in the final season of BSG, they added the number of the Enterprise D on one of the hatches.

 

[Curzon Dax-sama]

The whole thing with Vaush, Inner Light, Chain of Command, and Picard doing that whole John McClane impression in Starship Mine.

Then again, these episodes are good to great. You can have Stewart being a self-entitled retard, but if there is no one to tardwrangle him, you get:

Stewart and his bloating ego is the reason Nemesis had that pointless beach buggy chase and the reason why Insurrection had such a retarded plot.

Never give bald men 100% what they want, ever. I'd rather have them cope and seethe than giving them the icing on their cake.

I feel as though the Borg were castrated long before Voyager. They appear once in DS9 and never again. Their appearance is referred to by Sisko as a "scare."

When I watched S5 of DS9 for the first time, I had the expectation that Sisko would be seriously annoyed that someone trashed his pimphand, that Worf's time travel hijinks would be investigated or some other nod that First Contact actually happened in-universe around the time.

 

[Flexo]

They appear once in DS9 and never again. Their appearance is referred to by Sisko as a "scare."

You mean at the start? When we have a flashback to Wolf 359? To explain Sisko's backstory?

In general, it's hard to believe TNG was able to get its shit together so suddenly. Voyager and DS9 were okay in their early years and only got better later on, but TNG? We got "The Naked Now", "Code of Honor", and "The Last Outpost" back to back. Somehow, the writing got leagues better starting from Season 3.

It is amazing how much the writing improved when Gene got kicked upstairs.

Shame modern Trek can't pull off any kind of shift in quality themselves.

Technically, we already had someone like that in TOS. He was also a child like Cartman.

Exactly! And everyone remembers Q way more while Trelane is more of a footnote. (and maybe a Q depending on Peter David)

 

[Mr. Racewar1488]

You mean at the start? When we have a flashback to Wolf 359? To explain Sisko's backstory?

You don't remember the episode where Quark, Rom, and Morn were travelling to Becklar VII and a Borg cube captured them? Morn's impassioned speech about freedom and free will is one of the all time greatest speeches in any Star Trek series.

 

[Sweeter and Savoury]

I don't think Gene has many writing credits. I'm pretty sure almost all of the "good" ones were done by outside writers.

Gene can be credited for creating the world of Trek but that's about it. He made the framework so that others could run with it and give the world something hopeful after decades of Cold War horror.

I always thought Trelane was a pretty decent early Q. He nailed all the hallmarks but back then trek was far more campy and hammy (wonderfully so) but he was just a one off. Trek didn't get any reoccurring villains until Khan as everything was "episode of the week" thanks to being on TV.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

You mean at the start? When we have a flashback to Wolf 359? To explain Sisko's backstory?

That and when they get the Defiant.

You don't remember the episode where Quark, Rom, and Morn were travelling to Becklar VII and a Borg cube captured them? Morn's impassioned speech about freedom and free will is one of the all time greatest speeches in any Star Trek series.

Oh, Morn... he had such a way with words.

 

[Flexo]

You don't remember the episode where Quark, Rom, and Morn were travelling to Becklar VII and a Borg cube captured them? Morn's impassioned speech about freedom and free will is one of the all time greatest speeches in any Star Trek series.

Oh wait. That was the first episode where they searched for Quark's daughter isn't it?

I don't think Gene has many writing credits. I'm pretty sure almost all of the "good" ones were done by outside writers.

He was infamous for both establishing rules writers had to use as well as rewriting and "heavily editing" many scripts as well.

Just because he wasn't directly on the credits doesn't mean he wasn't heavily involved. There entire books on the drama.

That and when they get the Defiant.

There were no borg in the episode the defiant showed up.

In DS9 the borg are literally only ever seen in episode 1. (Otherwise they get mentioned offhand.)

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

There were no borg in the episode the defiant showed up.

You know what? I think it was "Homefront" where someone mentioned "the Borg scare." All I meant is that the Borg got de-fanged before Voyager.

 

[Flexo]

You know what? I think it was "Homefront" where someone mentioned "the Borg scare." All I meant is that the Borg got de-fanged before Voyager.

Yeah, Sisko's dad has the line:
JOSEPH: I don't blame him. I haven't seen people so nervous since the Borg scare.

While later the president says:
JARESH-INYO: You're serious. With the exception of the Borg incident, there hasn't been a State of Emergency declared on Earth in a century.

I fail to see how having a civilian or politician comment on them "nerfs" the borg. If anything it just proves the point DS9 loved to make that the people on Earth were too disconnected from the realities of the galaxy.

 

[False Emprah]

Hmm I always just thought Trelane was a Q just a very "young" one.

In one of the novels from the 90s that's exactly what he was. He was basically a child which is why he required machines to help with his powers.

 

[Sweeter and Savoury]

I was always OK with the Borg being a TNG only villain. DS9 already had Dukat and Wynn and ain't no Borg gonna top those two.

We shall not speak of the terrible Voyager Borg interactions out of respect for what was once a mighty foe reduce to clown status by Janeway.

Fuck, Janeway cucked both the Borg and the Q didn't she?