General Discussion for Virtual Youtubers / Vtubers / Chuubas - it's okay to be a simp for 2D, just don't thirstpost.

[Molag Bal]

In my head, there's like a corporate office where unused vtuber concepts are just laying vacant, dead-eyed, slumped over waiting for a human soul to be inserted into them like a robot getting a personality drive.

In companies like Holo, Niji and maybe Phase, that's 1-1 the case, they just have a bunch of unused models stored on hard drives and when they hire someone, they assign a model and hash out stuff like lore/kayfabe afterwards. In cases like Vshojo it's obviously more personalized. Maybe they make minor adjustments at hololive but there's no way they custom make models for people they hire from the ground up. Stuff like Raora (generic cutesy catgirl with pink hair, but has a deep, raspy voice like a middle-aged Italian housewife) would never happen otherwise.

 

[Faceless Anime Woman]

Does anyone know how the corporate decision making works for designing their characters? Like, when Phase picked up Pippa, how did they decide she would be a rabbit with a bunch of hair clips and a patchwork sweater? Someone asked me this and I did not have a good answer.

In my head, I imagine it's sort of like, "we don't have tomboy gf in lineup, so we're going to find an actress that has a deeper voice and more assertive personality" and then they go into drafting to come up with a character that the actress likes and that has the correct sex appeal to the target market.

I think most people already answered it, but from what I heard, corpos tend to have the design to be at least 70-80% ready, and the talent can be funneled to the design depending on whether they fit the best or not. Then the rest is just final touches with the talent input before the design is ready and teased for debut.

Also pretty much everyone at this point want their designs to stand out, hence the need of complicated designs, asymmetrical stuff, even going for shit that would be fetish fuel to people (unfortunately, yes, the loli/shota stuff does count in this). Of course, it still depends on whether the talent behind said design can make it work or not, but generally smaller corpos will try to make it more standout, while larger corpos can either follow said "stand out design" trend or try new things and still expecting bigger viewership/fans.

In companies like Holo, Niji and maybe Phase, that's 1-1 the case, they just have a bunch of unused models stored on hard drives and when they hire someone, they assign a model and hash out stuff like lore/kayfabe afterwards. In cases like Vshojo it's obviously more personalized. Maybe they make minor adjustments at hololive but there's no way they custom make models for people they hire from the ground up. Stuff like Raora (generic cutesy catgirl with pink hair, but has a deep, raspy voice like a middle-aged Italian housewife) would never happen otherwise.

In Hololive, specifically, there was a case on the JP branch that they revealed two designs for their debut that ended up didn't make the cut, either because they didn't garner good candidates or whatever. The design ended up got shelved, but the artists that designed it ended up designing new designs that would later debuted (Takane Lui and Sakamata Chloe)


(The woman on the left is designed by the artist that did Takane, the eyepatch woman's artist on the right would later designed Chloe)

For Niji, they started out with pre-existing designs and the talent auditioned based on who they picked. After that they generally follows the usual corpo stuff (designs hashed out, talent picked, final touch then debut), but there are some exceptions like say, when they got alumni from their Virtual Talent Academy/VTA (basically Anycolor/Niji's corpo making academy for aspiring japanese people to learn streaming/vtubing and either debut on niji or other places), whose talent that uses VTA's basic design gets a more refurbished "debut" design that either fits the theme of the generation/wave or just looking "different" than their first design.


(one example: The left is NijiJP Amagase Muyu back when she's in VTA, right one is her after debuting in NijiJP proper)

At the very least, for Nijisanji and Hololive, you kind of expect them to have at least a backburner of drafts that either didn't make the cut or just rough enough that it can be used later when the audition is finished and candidates are picked, though its expected for corpos to just make new one rather than relying on those unless they have no choice or it just didn't work out. All we really get is from the mouth of talents that is willing enough to share their experience about getting the designs (I know some holo talent has spoken about it but I forgot who).

 

[TheMonkeyMan]

Stuff like Raora (generic cutesy catgirl with pink hair, but has a deep, raspy voice like a middle-aged Italian housewife) would never happen otherwise.

This is probably a coincidence but one of the most famous 20th century Italian novels is called "The Leopard".

 

[oh no its pipkun]

Does anyone know how the corporate decision making works for designing their characters? Like, when Phase picked up Pippa, how did they decide she would be a rabbit with a bunch of hair clips and a patchwork sweater? Someone asked me this and I did not have a good answer.

In my head, I imagine it's sort of like, "we don't have tomboy gf in lineup, so we're going to find an actress that has a deeper voice and more assertive personality" and then they go into drafting to come up with a character that the actress likes and that has the correct sex appeal to the target market.

she was supposed to be a different character (generic cat girl). she and her half jap half roma friend asked to be paired and bw given a different character design. they gave their input on the design and we got the final product. im sure someone has a clip of her explaining it since shes talked about it a few times.

its only by happenstance pippa settled on her current voice and personality. her first streams had a different personality like high pitch baby voice and talking in the 3rd person.

heres pippa using the original model she was assigned to before she asked for the rabbit design.

 

[Counterfeit Obol]

Not sure how it works for phase. But with hololive the characters are designed before hand and given to the voice actor.

The Japanese corporations tend to audition girls for roles they've already designed or planned. The Western ones seem to be a little more open to talent input on character designs, as others have already pointed out with the purple cat. With respect to the decals/hair decs on the pink rabbit specifically, that seems to be a stylistic signature of the artist who designed that character. Her other designs also have similar levels of adornment to them.

If we're still talking about vtuber designs, Pekora and Rushia were sort-of unique cases in that their performers were hired before their models were finalized, so they got a say on some details.

 

[X-avier cuck]

Bye Aster

 

[LOWERCASE LETTERS]

Should be noted that even if you're kind of chunky when you join hololive, that dance practice stuff just melts the pounds off fast. It's why Calli went from hood chunky to thighs that can crush a watermelon.

 

[Ayana Otonashi]

I miss Mumei, at least the others have the solace that their oshi is still streaming indie. I’m getting way too emotional for someone who recently fell down this rabbit hole not even a couple months ago.

 

[Scarthew]

Should be noted that even if you're kind of chunky when you join hololive, that dance practice stuff just melts the pounds off fast. It's why Calli went from hood chunky to thighs that can crush a watermelon.

She was fat for years and then became skinny within a year. Sorry but she just went on ozempic.

 

[paule]

Bye Aster

The two-class society between men and women at Nijisanji never ends. Termination for the victim vs separation for the sexpest

and they really stopped the black text on white background announcements

 

[vestars20]

Regarding "corporate decision making works for designing their characters"

There is no definitive answer as Talus says but let's talk about models from different corporations and over time. In short, putting aside the sexual pigeonholing, the general idea of having a type of group cohesion is most likely considered. That can be groups like HoloX or Niji's "Heroes" cross branch branding but also can just include what games the vtuber excels at like Moka and Hanabi from VSPO debuting together. So answering with anything but, "it depends" is disingenuous.

Also, regarding corporate vtubering 3d models, the talents are not adjusting anything on their models so I have no idea why their IRL body sizes are being talked about, fat or not. Debiru has been around for years and Cover didn't nerf Nerissa's boobs, talents adjust the live2d models and the 3d models are the companies responsibility.

Hololive
Hololive started off chasing Kizuna Ai just like everyone else so Sora's initial model was 3d and her early streams were closer to the meta of the time. Her desgin was generic highschool idol. Roboco came second and used a model by 3d modeler kuromaru9 who already had the base model done. Here she is in 2016 2 years before debut so I imagine that design was convenience though I do remember kuromaru9 being a bit of an "artist" about her design going forward. Miko also came in 3D and is a generic shrine maid, Suisei designed her own and Azki was INNK's project for a virtual singer hence the futuristic image. Faceless talked about the unused models so there is some consideration about talent matching design. A great example is Luna and previous Luna. Considering the design choices for DEV_IS I think it's clear that Cover is incorporating more talent led design choices, the characters feel more like the talents right off the bat from Raden's fan to Chihaya's earings, their interests are on display.

Niji
Niji's unused models got talked about but for fun this Full Metal Alchemist looking fat fuck also became a meme for a bit. Also, looks like many designs were auditioned for. Of note, only Oliver and Ha yun got picked from this.

If you look at their early designs there is a large variety from normal to weird with Hanabatake Chaika, Dola, Joe and Shiba being some good examples that suggest talents had a hand in what character they wanted (or tried out for). Shiba is a furry so that's another point for that. Recently other then Lunlun, who Niji had an audition for someone to be a mascot character, the designs are more "normal".

VSPO and more
Yuuhi from VSPO requested Ui to design her. Ui is fickle so that was a major win for Yuuhi. Unfortunately, I know jack all about the other large JP's: 774, Re:Act, Aogiri Highschool or others but we do have NoriPro's rebranding to look at. Basically, most original members left and she brought in "creators" so artists and video editors and such. That's another way to recruit and there is no specific theme for the members - https://noripro.jp/#talent.

If all that doesn't seem like it matters for EN design wise then I request a company that doesn't follow JP corpo design practice and standards. Maybe if they are doing something different like VOMS (artist pet project), Camoni, or this small indie

but there isn't one.
The only other different design choice is the 2.5d vtuber but it's more about the premise of the channel then aesthetic: Urara and KAF are two great examples where they show IRL body but not face blending the immersion.


An aside, is there a reason I can't search Scuttle's posts anymore? It's the best way to remember Niji history so that would be nice to have fixed. My issue is that I want to advanced search their posts and the only member I get is Scuttlefuck

 

[Faceless Anime Woman]

Niji
Niji's unused models got talked about but for fun this Full Metal Alchemist looking fat fuck also became a meme for a bit. Also, looks like many designs were auditioned for. Of note, only Oliver and Ha yun got picked from this.

If you look at their early designs there is a large variety from normal to weird with Hanabatake Chaika, Dola, Joe and Shiba being some good examples that suggest talents had a hand in what character they wanted (or tried out for). Shiba is a furry so that's another point for that. Recently other then Lunlun, who Niji had an audition for someone to be a mascot character, the designs are more "normal".

The watery fish woman below Ha Yun did get used as NijiKR debut as "Lee On", same wave as Ha Yun but already graduated. Aside of that, the fat fuck is one of their unused design that, while unused, is still kept as 'joke' character that NijiJP talents can used if they feel like it (say, filling up roster for Niji Koshien).

We don't know for sure how many designs that wasn't used within Nijisanji, but I know for the fact that aside of the one in that old audition page linked on your post, there's also one Nijisanji vtuber design for ID branch (I think), whose only appearances is on a Indonesian guy's vlog video of him visiting the Nijisanji office and the design appeared for a brief talk session in the background.


Other designs that I know who were also unused:
- A woman with headphones that was part of yet another old NijiJP audition blurb and the only one who didn't debut named "Kasahara Ao". Admittedly I found out about it because one NSFW fan-artist drew her R-18 art despite knowing she isn't officially debuted at all.

Also, regarding Scuttle's post, you can still find it here, just don't autofill the searchbar. The name doesn't pop out but if you search for Scuttle it should work.

 

[Burnt Fish]

Holo will especially do things like ask talents for heights (and probably BMI/weights) and equate those into 3D models so your tracking is one for one.

That's why everyone outside of Holo has strange clipping when the models touch themselves it's not just the trackers it's because their bodies don't match one for one often, the infamous booba clipping.

I don't know in what world you think Holo's tracking doesn't have clipping or tracking issues or that they custom tailor their models to the persons body.

Go watch Kronii mess around in 3d and her arms clip through her model's chest regularly (surprise the flat korean girl who's vtuber model has giant tits clips through them) or watch any time talents attempt to hug or something on stage.

And in general with a lot of them if they put their hand at their hip IRL, on the model it hovers like 3 inches off of the body. so the tracking is still off there just in the opposite direction.

What you probably ARE noticing between holo and non holo isn't a matter of model design and rigging being "customized" so much as it's just what tech they're using to track them. Hololive"s multi million dollar studio can track a ton better than your average Indie with their (comparatively) budget setup. and that gap will create more issues with clipping and bad tracking.

Should be noted that even if you're kind of chunky when you join hololive, that dance practice stuff just melts the pounds off fast. It's why Calli went from hood chunky to thighs that can crush a watermelon.

to be fair as well, She wasn't big pre-holo, she got big during covid lockdowns and starting streaming (sedentary lifestyle) and more so then the dancing, she's gotten a personal trainer and goes to the gym regularly regardless of holo stuff now.

Dance lessons aren't going to make someone not fat when those dance lessons are only for a few months out of the year, hence folks like Ollie still exist. Mori had to go out of her way to do extra to reverse course on the Covid bloat.

 

[Major von der Westfront]

In my head, there's like a corporate office where unused vtuber concepts are just laying vacant, dead-eyed, slumped over waiting for a human soul to be inserted into them like a robot getting a personality drive.

Basically. It DOES make sense to do this as those concepts can be used for future talents or even outfits. I believe it was Suisei from Hololive who had a concept art made for her before that would later become one of her outfits down the line.

 

[TouchFluffyTail]

 

[Seared Strawberry]

I miss Mumei, at least the others have the solace that their oshi is still streaming indie. I’m getting way too emotional for someone who recently fell down this rabbit hole not even a couple months ago.

Rough, god speed fellow traveler

I don't know in what world you think Holo's tracking doesn't have clipping

strange clipping

That doesn't say doesn't

And in general with a lot of them if they put their hand at their hip IRL, on the model it hovers like 3 inches off of the body

>tfw VRChat has better tracking than even Holo I guess, lol.

I'll take your word on all this since you're the corpofag and not me

Edit:
While not applicable in a lot of 3D big corpo concert situations, for jank at home 3D streaming shoving a webcam into your set up will create more accurate body/limb tracking (Depending on your light of source but that's all of tracking, lol). XR Animator is more or less the standard at this point but a lot of people don't like to use it because they're afraid to put a web cam in their tracking set up because it's another piece in the chain that can break, but usually it's worth it.

 

[Scarthew]

I couldn't watch this for long cause its got pirate software's annoying voice but the important part I wanna highlight is that she says her model was 1500 to commission. Tori Oriane here was previously Maeve Kagekiri from V&U she left in that wave of graduations a few months ago.

That's crazy, I imagine that would've been 300 tops like 6 years ago. Also it shows that even someone small like her is making enough to make that a worthwhile investment.

Also, lol

 

[RhoasJonas]

Jelly is taking a break.

 

[Seared Strawberry]

15k to commission

She said 1,500
"Fifteen hundred"

I also had this number problem for awhile

Her model would've been around $800-1000 in total a few years ago, if she got it done in 2022.
Prices are inflated but not that much in the lower mid to mid range.

Most lower mid to mid range models are $1,500-4,000 (2D) and $300-3,000 (3D)
About $400-600 for model art and the rest for rigging if she went SEA.

Prices have skyrocketed since 2023, one of the reasons being that a lot of SEA workers went back to working on corporate things (anime, graphic design for products, vtubing companies) so there's less teams of them doing these sorts of services, mainly just Malaysia at this point.
There are SEA art studios outside of Malaysia doing these sorts of services still but just a lot less, meanwhile there's more independent artists either in the West or charging Western prices for things which is why the prices have hiked so much.

 

[Maniacal Foreigner]

She said 1,500
"Fifteen hundred"
View attachment 7646865
I also had this number problem for awhile

Her model would've been around $800-1000 in total a few years ago, if she got it done in 2022.
Prices are inflated but not that much in the lower mid to mid range.

Most lower mid to mid range models are $1,500-4,000 (2D) and $300-3,000 (3D)
About $400-600 for model art and the rest for rigging if she went SEA.

Prices have skyrocketed since 2023, one of the reasons being that a lot of SEA workers went back to working on corporate things (anime, graphic design for products, vtubing companies) so there's less teams of them doing these sorts of services, mainly just Malaysia at this point.
There are SEA art studios outside of Malaysia doing these sorts of services still but just a lot less, meanwhile there's more independent artists either in the West or charging Western prices for things which is why the prices have hiked so much.

At this point, it really seems like the most cost-effective option is to only pay an artist for the design and just bite the bullet and learn how to rig it yourself. The prices are just ridiculous, especially for an indie who's just starting out.