Community Yaoi and MPreg Fandom Discussion Thread

[ishtar is incredible]

Oh joy another gender war debate.

Anyways, what's with the fujo obsession of male characters in maid outfits? Is it just a meme fetish or is it something about humiliation and such?

Must be some sort of humiliation kink is my guess. Reminds me of this:

 

[#FF0000]

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[Paper Machete]

A lot of fics on Ao3 have obvious porn brainrot creep even though they're ostensibly not even supposed to be anything other than generic fanfic romance schlock. You can't move for the fuckin shit and I don't think this used to be normal. The girlies are not okay y'all. All the guntguarding and whataboutism needs to stop there is really vile shit in a lot of female created and marketed erotica, be it in fanfic or actual published works. And a lot of weird degen ideas shoved into even ostensibly SFW content as well in the form of gay ships still being a thing despite the main pairing supposed to be m/f, poly, kinks brought up, etc. A lot of popular tags on their own seemingly being innocent means nothing as well because a lot of fics are multi chapter and will include long plots with lots of sex but the other content in it will mean a shit load of non sexual tags are used to categorize it.

I don't know I can't sleep and I probably shouldn't even bother sperging about it but it bothers me that people try to be dishonest about obvious issues. Like I'll go out of my way to try to find basic bitch fluffy shit because I like cheap woman aimed entertainment sometimes too and it's just hard to find man...

 

[Aunt Carol]

The reference to the Second Life Dolcett community is a very deep cut, no pun intended. And I’ve never even heard of Mai Chan’s Daily Life.

For modern Kiwi Farmers, PortalofEvil shutting down was like the Library of Alexandria burning.

A lot of fics on Ao3 have obvious porn brainrot creep even though they're ostensibly not even supposed to be anything other than generic fanfic romance schlock. You can't move for the fuckin shit and I don't think this used to be normal. The girlies are not okay y'all.

Someone in the fanfic thread was talking about "locust fans:" groups of authors/artists who congregate together and follow their unofficial leaders en masse to a fandom for which few of them have engaged the source material. They pump out a lot of work in a short period of time and then move on to the next fandom, leaving behind them meme pollution that will affect the remaining fandom for years, e.g. Jack Krauser as a pooner.

There's an element of that, and also the waves of popularity you can track when a property has a reboot or revival. Look at the Man from U.N.C.L.E. fandom on Ao3 for a mini version of that: comfy slow-moving fandom where all the authors are older and/or deeply autistic, suddenly a movie reboot and the tag expands and gets weirder, then peters out again but the oldies are shaken.

I think you're right about "the girlies" though: reading through a young-skewing fandom (Asian stuff especially) nets you a lot more vile and concerning works by percentage. I'm glad they're still able to write, but there's something awful happening to The Youth and I don't think I'm just saying that just because I'm old and out of touch.

 

[Ampicilina500mg]

I thought this would be a fun thread of Kiwi women discussing their likes and dislikes about yaoi, but it's not and it's really sad.
@Hand Banana Great answers I admire you

 

[healing rain]

I thought yaoi was about wanting to see two pretty anime men kiss, what the absolute fuck is this shit about mpreg omegaverse buttbaby uretha fisting shit-eating dead doves

Any woman who had a yaoi phase but didn't end up pooning out deserves a veteran discount.

I hate fujos so much it's unreal. I hate how they try to force their sick fetishes on others. No, mrpeg is not a funny meme—stop posting it, you fucking cretins!

That sounds awesome! Peak male fantasy!
Meanwhile—these women cannot think beyond gay nazi porn.
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I really wish I could unread that sentence!

Any Third Reich fans ITT? I'm still waiting for them to announce the 4th season!

 

[THE URANUS SPOTTER]

deeply is chosen by a female, under no circumstances.

 

[Just A Wagtail]

I think you're right about "the girlies" though: reading through a young-skewing fandom (Asian stuff especially) nets you a lot more vile and concerning works by percentage. I'm glad they're still able to write, but there's something awful happening to The Youth and I don't think I'm just saying that just because I'm old and out of touch.

I noticed this when the minecraft blew up again during covid and a fandom grew around the youtubers like dream and tommyinnit, obviously full of young people and full of yoai, omergaverse and gore porn of real people, I think even tommyinnit who was underage had fanfictions of him getting groomed by other youtubers.

 

[THE URANUS SPOTTER]

the minecraft

 

[THE URANUS SPOTTER]

For modern Kiwi Farmers, PortalofEvil shutting down was like the Library of Alexandria burning.


Someone in the fanfic thread was talking about "locust fans:" groups of authors/artists who congregate together and follow their unofficial leaders en masse to a fandom for which few of them have engaged the source material. They pump out a lot of work in a short period of time and then move on to the next fandom, leaving behind them meme pollution that will affect the remaining fandom for years, e.g. Jack Krauser as a pooner.

There's an element of that, and also the waves of popularity you can track when a property has a reboot or revival. Look at the Man from U.N.C.L.E. fandom on Ao3 for a mini version of that: comfy slow-moving fandom where all the authors are older and/or deeply autistic, suddenly a movie reboot and the tag expands and gets weirder, then peters out again but the oldies are shaken.

I think you're right about "the girlies" though: reading through a young-skewing fandom (Asian stuff especially) nets you a lot more vile and concerning works by percentage. I'm glad they're still able to write, but there's something awful happening to The Youth and I don't think I'm just saying that just because I'm old and out of touch.

vile

 

[Shakira Flabbergasted]

A lot of fics on Ao3 have obvious porn brainrot creep even though they're ostensibly not even supposed to be anything other than generic fanfic romance schlock. You can't move for the fuckin shit and I don't think this used to be normal. The girlies are not okay y'all. All the guntguarding and whataboutism needs to stop there is really vile shit in a lot of female created and marketed erotica, be it in fanfic or actual published works. And a lot of weird degen ideas shoved into even ostensibly SFW content as well in the form of gay ships still being a thing despite the main pairing supposed to be m/f, poly, kinks brought up, etc.

It isn't even the worst thing about yaoi, but the thing that bothers me the most is how fujos will start shipping any two male characters who violently hate each other, absent any homoerotic subtext. A lot of straight romantic media used to feature couples who bicker relentlessly to hide their feelings for each other (Han and Leia are a good example), but that trope died a long time ago, so I doubt it's the cause. I get shipping two men who are friends and interpreting their closeness as romance (even if I still think it's degenerate), but shipping people because they tried to kill each other and you think that's romantic is deeply unwell behavior. Fujos aren't okay.

 

[Among Us Gaming]

I think you're right about "the girlies" though: reading through a young-skewing fandom (Asian stuff especially) nets you a lot more vile and concerning works by percentage.

AO3 works featuring wendigoon as an example
Be Warned

Spoiler

 

[healing rain]

Yaoi/BL is problematic because it leads women down these increasingly deranged and depraved rabbit holes, not because it "fetishizes gay men" or whatever the fuck.
"Reeeeeeeee it doesn't accurately represent gay men!!!" lmao no one cares fatty. The world fucking wishes irl gay men were more like the monogamous blorbos portrayed in such media. Instead most of you are piss orgy attending disease vectors with body counts in the triple digits and a penchant for some of the foulest fetishes I have ever heard of. Death to all barafaggots. Total Barafaggot Death.

 

[Ice Mountain]

And I’ve never even heard of Mai Chan’s Daily Life.

Everyone come laugh at the newfag.

 

[KifflomKween]

Wouldn't it be fun if we picked some of these stories and did some amateur psychoanalysis on them? Might try it later if I have time.

 

[Aunt Carol]

AO3 works featuring wendigoon as an example
Be Warned

There's some kind of RPF spectrum, and it's got famous actors who will never see the writing on one end, and YouTube "creators" with parasocial fandoms on the other end.

 

[Sebben Crudele II]

Everyone come laugh at the newfag.
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Nah brother, don't do that.
The only, single, minuscule thing I'm glad has been over for a long while is the implicit acceptance of "you have to be fooled into seeing this one (or multiple) vile things that will scar you mentally as a rite of passage" Passage towards what? Who knows.

These gang initiation tier shit are things sub 80iq negroids do, why would you want to emulate this behavior by fooling someone into reading guro or watching shock shit and be rightfully horrified?

I'm glad this finally fell out of fashion.

I thought this would be a fun thread of Kiwi women discussing their consuption of rape/mpreg/butt babies/omegaverse/sexually violent pornography (in a coffee AU of course, can't forget that!) and how we are the good kind of degenerate as opposed to those GosH dArN fUcKinG mEyUn who are the bad kind of degenerate but it's not and it's really sad.

FTFY

 

[weirdMcGee]

Is the reason you guys hate bl is because you either a straight man or self centered straight pickme who's mad boobs aren't the focus? Because it seems like some of y'all really seem to hate anything women do in a forum dedicated to women shit.

 

[Sebben Crudele II]

Is the reason you guys hate bl is because you either a straight man or self centered straight pickme who's mad boobs aren't the focus? Because it seems like some of y'all really seem to hate anything women do in a forum dedicated to women shit.

The discussion got moved here by a mod.

Believe it or not, however, people hating pornography, made by/aimed to women in this case, doesn't, in fact, mean they hate women. It means they hate pornography.

How important is porn in your life that you made this association though? Is this a big part of your identity? Do you equate, in your mind at least, consuming yaoi to being a woman?

 

[Taxes]

@HandBanana
Considering how this thread began, I am not surprised by its near-immediate fall into infighting. But, I am always a sucker for conversations like this, so I’ll chip in my opinion.

First, TMI: I was someone who lurked a lot on AO3 and certain fandom areas on the internet. Let me make one thing clear: Yaoi is not equivalent to regular male attraction. The fujoshis who adore it are not well. It’s one thing to be a hetero or bisexual woman and the normal thought of two men kissing intriguing you, it’s another entirely to be into yaoi. Writing gay romance is one thing; I am of the belief that writing what you don’t know is as valuable as writing what you do know and the idea that X can’t write Y because their not Z is restrictive’ and stifles curiosity and creativity. If a woman wants to research the lives of gay men and then write a story about two men in love, what’s the harm? If she gets it wrong, so what? Same thing with men writing women? Just don’t read the book, provide criticism to those who ask, and either the author learns and tries harder next time or doesn’t and is ignored.

However, Yaoi is not like that. This is going to be very autistic, but here’s my brief by brief of everything this exposure has made me think about this specific pervert sect. of the internet.

1. The Early Days:

Those who remember the early days of the internet will remember this fact: back in the olden days before Twitter/Reddit/Wattpad/Tumblr and the like, forums for these chicks had members who had zero clue on the anatomy of gay sex (or human anatomy). None of these chicks knew about douching (the anus was just magically self-lubricating), gay men’s propensity for nonmonogamy and wild sex-parties, or the hangups of the various STDs, mental illnesses, or discrimination their group carry. They were of the opinion it was just straight sex but without* the female partner. Early exposure to sweat, gross gay pornos elicited disgust and dismay. Oh, how nice those days were.

1. Why It’s Hated:

Yaoi (to any sane, well-adjusted person) isn’t hated because it “fetishizes gay men”, “makes straight men uncomfy”, or because it “allows *women express themselves healthily without fear of male violence in a relationship.” It is hated because it is another fetish. Yaoi is fetish. It doesn’t matter if you like it or not, think it’s harmful or not, or want to compare it to other male fetishes. It is. There is nothing typical about being so obsessed with men (let alone fictional men) that you can’t envision a female-insert to inject into a romantic plot. That’s not healthy, no matter how you slice it. We all have unhealthy coping mechanisms, though, so no one can blame these girls for starting off that way. But you have to move on and not let this be a crutch. Either take the leap and pursue real life relationships with men like your foremothers did, stay single and enjoy life with real life friends, or realize you like real life women and date them. But you know what happens when people don’t?

How about the fujoshi to pooner pipeline, too? The amount of girls who have mangled their bodies to look like a facsimile of a man? A lot of them were insecure teenagers rightfully disgusted by the pornpeddlers' desecration of their bodies for profit. They couldn’t voice their frustrations because they are A) teenagers B) female C) impressionable. Those who were meant to guide them (society and their parents) either didn’t pay enough attention to them and their struggles or pushed the false “empowerment” of sex! Sex! SEX! on them. “What do you mean you don’t want to do anal on the first date, sleep with 100 men, and sell your body online? That’s literally all girls are good for! You wouldn’t want to be–gasp–a prude, do you?”

If they do it or are victims of rape or sexual assault, they get no praise and are insteadlambasted as a “Whore! Slut! Loose!” And most girls aren’t stupid and know misogyny (not by name, but by experience) at an early age. So they retreat inward, yaoi in hand because (shocker) they’re still hormonal teenagers who have desires, but no healthy guide through them. Afterall, this is the “safer” option. No real boy to pressure me into things I don’t want to do (too scared/shy to stand firm)! These two are both male, so no one really gets hurt (*no sexual dimorphism = no abuse [in theory])! And, I am indulging in a fantasy separate from painful reality (enjoying it like a porn video–in fact, often these chicks eventually watch porn videos, so yaoi isn’t even separate from Pornhub types). And they read. They read and read and read. The ones in better situations go through that faze and move-on, but not all. Some get attached. They start to insert themselves into these ‘male’ roles, seeing themselves in this ‘gay’ (hetero) relationship. And think, “if I was a man, this would all have been so much easier! I could love a man how I would without people thinking less of me or being expected to do X, Y, or Z! If only…”

And that’s when it begins. The dysphoria. The dissatisfaction with what they have because this fantasy of what they think the other side is like is so appealing (because it is a fantasy). And it festers. The accursed TQ+ that invades all online spaces too finds these vulnerable girls. First, they’re nonbinary. Then, “masc”. Some jump right into TiF status at the first chance! Then the constant hatred and obsession with their female forms grows and grows. The cult-teachings grow into them; they “come out” to friends and family–only those approved by the cult stay. Then, the pronouns change, the behavior changes, the sudden gaslighting about “past signs.” The hormone injections come in, then the tit-chop, and maybe even the genital butchery. All the while they’re dreaming of waking up one day as a cute, boyish “uke” in the arms of a loving “seme”. Some deviate (keep their tits, never go on hormones, want more “reasonable” lovers, etc), but it all started the same.

Or what about how like all fetishes, it originated from pornography. And, like all fetishes, it is a gateway to worse pornography. Fujoshis will keep exploring more deplorable fetishes and becoming accustomed to them, eventually diving into other porn groups and (at best) writing more porn or (at worst) doing real-world prostitution and pornography. All to keep chasing and chasing the high. The “artists” like Francis Xie, niusesabe, valentitans, and many more. While these three are better known (who you may or may not have had the misfortune of being exposed to) and some of the worse examples, none of those who delve into this are well. No porn is innocent, be it made by men or women. There are not enough studies on how pornography affects women (as it is primarily targeted and consumed by boys [may the great above have mercy on our souls] and men), but I doubt it’s any different from what we’ve read on men. They all eventually get bored of the ‘softcore’ and delve deeper. The pretty boys lure them in, but eventually things will escalate and the pretty boys that got them off in cutesy romance won't do so anymore. Whether it be just BDSM or writing/drawing weird shit like horsecocks and shit-eating or straight up pedophilia, it is inevitable. Hell, mpreg proves that. That AO3 tag, as many have pointed out, isn’t accurate. But, at least to me, not for the reasons stated. Comparing AO3 to Pornhub is comparing apples to peaches. Pornhub is specifically for porn. AO3 at least has some (albeit, less and less) sections that are entirely non-pornographic. Pornhub is video, AO3 is word. A more accurate comparison would be shifting through AO3’s tagging system and then comparing that to something like Literotica or Nifty.org. Those two are still pornographic, but they have some semblance of other stories (not perfect, but better, imo)

1. Excuses:
   1. “Yaoi is a safe-haven for healthy romantic exploration for young women and girls before they dive into heterosexual or bisexual or gay relationships!”

No, it is not. I repeat, it is extremely strange to be so obsessed with men that you cannot visualize a female-self insert into a relationship. Maybe for some chicks, it’s equal testing grounds, but for the vast majority (online) it is a crutch. Why tackle the drought of actually good heterosexual romance through doing the damn thing and writing and promoting the female characters you want to see, when it's easier and more profitable to just write "male" stand-ins? The * next to the previous paragraphs equality point is there. Yaoi hands, effeminate, tiny ukes and big, masculine semes, again--mpreg. Even the "flowershop AUs" (why is always a flower/coffee shop), why do they both need to be dudes? It's fantasy, why can't you just write a world where women are equal? What's stopping fujoshis? They already "don't give a fuck" what men say, so why not? How utterly creatively bankrupt must you be to not deviate from the norm by actually owning your sex and sexuality, why do they want this so bad? Seems to be more than just wanting "good romance" to me. Also, stop going off-topic. Who gives a (pardon) fuck what some random twitter user says about anything? They are posting it online (to the PUBLIC), why are you surprised some people are pissy and why do you care?
The slap-fighting of bots pretending to be men and women on Twitter arguing about AI "boyfriends" tracking periods (Lowkey sounds like something the government would use to monitor the cycles of women for God knows what) is not equivalent to YAOI, which is what this thread is on about. It is irrelevant.

1. “Men do X so therefore Yaoi is not that bad!”

Yaoi is a broad fetish category. Like all porn, we could tie ourselves in knots about how ‘not all porn is bad because the porn I/an artist I like/someone who I know watch(es)/makes (I think) isn’t that bad!’ For every chick that likes ‘vanilla, gay sex’ there’s two that love fucked up dynamics. The amount of individuals who I’ve seen ship incest, pedophilia, and even fucking zoophilia because the two characters are male is insane (touched on briefly, based on the freaks mentioned above). Besides my experience, who (genuine, regular, normal people) is actually saying that guys who do that shit aren’t sick, too. Just because they don’t swarm communities, have dedicated categories on fanfiction sites, or are as well-known as fujoshis, does not mean they are tolerated, let alone liked.

Bara is seen as disgusting by anyone outside of the most degenerate of gay men, lolicons are universally despised by anyone not a lolicon, gore artists are hated on principle, and etcetera etcetera. The reason it feels like men get off-easily is because these freakshows mostly stay in their own little corner, while yaoi is weaseled into every (especially, predominantly female) fandom space. You don’t normally see a loud and proud rape-lover in the fucking Invincible fandom getting praise in the overall whole, but in a fetish like yaoi? Damn near impossible to not run into at some point (and while many are appalled, they still get an unnerving amount of praise + content).

Also, comparing the real life abuses and rapes of women and children (porn/CSAM videos, societal failings, and historical/statical statins) vs. niche internet fetish is disingenuous, at best. No one is arguing that that’s horrendous and disgusting and a sign of moral failings. No shit. But just because X does Z does not mean that Y isn’t nasty. Also, yes. A lot of these pornstars, prostitutes, and Onlyfans chicks were abused. So were a lot of the guys in porn, too (I know some of you don’t care, but it has to be said). Yes, the porn male consumers are the primary perpetrators of this sick system, that does not mean that a lot of these women and men in porn are going to stop. They make money having “sex” on camera because the abuse is all they’ve ever known. If either consumer or producer quits, someone will take their place. The system feeds on this endless feedback loop of victimization, addiction, and desecration of the female (greatly) and male bodies. The whole thing needs to be destroyed. Making an exception for one fetish because it’s “not as bad” doesn’t make sense. It’s still porn.

1. “It’s fiction, who cares?”

Fair. But so is lolicon and fantasies involving zoophilia, incest, rape, etc. Yet, we still feel repulsed by that. Are people not allowed to think just because it isn’t real, doesn’t mean it isn’t gross? The fact that it’s fiction doesn’t mean people are not going to voice their opinion.

1. “You just hate women and want–”

Most women give zero shits about the sex lives of gay men. Most hetero romance novels get way more traction than even big name gay shit. Yaoi is very much an internet-pushed fetish consumed by a very small (and horribly young) portion of the female population. It’s not women-hate to say those chicks are weird and gross. It’s not because they like romance, but because they need a fetish tacked on to get their clits hard.

Yes, there are a lot of misogynistic dudes who will take any chance to shit on predominantly female interests, regardless of what it is. But that’s due to the fact that A) the internet is primarily filled with men and the most loud, insecure obnoxious men are the ones who react the worst B) female fetishists are not well-documented in real-life (due to societal factors [sexism and/or denial], women’s propensity to not normally proudly parade their porn addiction, and just how abnormal these fetishes are on the internet, let alone in real life C) fujoshis are not well-liked to begin with, so easy target. If it wasn’t yaoi, they would make fun of something else. But since yaoi is disliked by normal people, too, the cowards don’t face greater backlash than if they attacked something like a “boring” hetero ship.

TLDR: Yaoi is fake and lame like all porn and just because it’s women getting off doesn’t make it any better than others. Why is the self-proclaimed "radical feminist" losing it over this, specifically? How can you be well-versed in the sickness of porn-addicted men, but skirt that of porn-addicted women and reduce them to only enjoying “coffee-shop AUs.” Sure it's not compareable or whatever, but why is this comparison being made to begin with? Why can't we mock female gooners just like the male goonerd without posing to say, "at least they're not men, though!"? Also, kiwifarmers of all people should know that statistics are flawed and that a lot of abuse on women and female abusers is under-reported. In this thread, it's not that serious. Reminder, this is literally a Gossip site. Don’t make yourself a clown when you’re here to comment on the circus. Can we get into laughing at cringe yaoi and fujoshis now, please?