Kiwis with stigmatized mental conditions, how do you cope?

[Lingering butter taste]

You have several very valid points here, and I also commend you for taking the time to respond to whatever shit I was spouting earlier. I've mistreated people horribly several times in the past and the guilt is immense. My cope (as you say) did serve a purpose, however misguided it may be to you: I was blaming all my problems on my very core self, not my mental condition. That's the silver lining, I guess.

I respect you for your reply, and thank you for clearing it up. You had me a bit MATI at first if I’m too be honest, cause I’ve met people who took that approach and it had terrible impacts on my life that are irreversible. Almost legit like trading their mental illness with me like Pokemon or some shit, lol. I’m relieved to hear that you’re not actually like that.

I think there’s a healthy balance to find, I think accepting the “label” I guess is a-okay if you have a plan to work around it. I have a few “labels” myself, but they’re not excuses, they’re blueprints. Bipolar is not treated like schizophrenia is not treated like depression, so you need that label to know how to get rid of it, or at the very least, get around it.

I do agree that when you muck up, the excuse shouldn’t be “I have ADHD, I have depression, I have anxiety!”. That’s separating your label away from you, as if it’s some separate guy that tags along with you and knocks down people’s cups. It wasn’t “Your PTSD” that caused you to lash out, it was you. It’s not “your PTSD”, you are your PTSD. It is literally something that affects your very being. You fucked up. You can make bad decisions outside of mental illness, but you cannot make bad decisions because of mental illness. Your decisions will always be your own.

 

[8reallybigbirds]

I’ve seen people with BPD describe their experience (and just people with cluster B in general describe it) and it always starts with finding out their life experience isn’t normal. It always has this general theme of “I never understood why everyone was acting like I was crazy when I was completely normal, come to find out I wasn’t.”. It’s not that they’re allergic to self-reflection, they don’t even know they need it.

I halfway wonder if this is where all the confusion and overlap around NPD/BPD comes from. It feels more like NPD to me that someone would be unaware, but also every BPD person I've encountered will actively use their trauma as an excuse to get away with their shit. Almost like they try to force everyone else to change their behavior to accomodate them and their own comfort. Not to powerlevel too much since I've already got naughty points but my mom was BPD and she would pull that shit all the time. I spent so much of my life begging her to accept reality and she flatly refused every time.

Either way, thank you for sharing your experience a lot. Despite the assholes in your replies, it means a lot to me

Yeah I was expecting it, the topic of child abuse is maybe a bit too nuanced for some farmers to tackle. Is it really oversharing just to say that I am negatively impacted by it though?

 

[Lingering butter taste]

I halfway wonder if this is where all the confusion and overlap around NPD/BPD comes from. It feels more like NPD to me that someone would be unaware, but also every BPD person I've encountered will actively use their trauma as an excuse to get away with their shit. Almost like they try to force everyone else to change their behavior to accomodate them and their own comfort.

Lemme try to break it down.

I think, for them, it’s not an excuse but a literal explanation. If you were attacked by a cheetah after someone opened a can of soda in the jungle, then you freak out when you’re not in the jungle and someone opens another can of soda, you’ll explain that “But the last time that happened a cheetah came!”. But in reality it sounds like “I was attacked by a cheetah so it’s ok if I lash out at you!”. It’s where the frustration with “I just don’t know how to be normal” comes from, everything is a threat to them come to find out it actually wasn’t and they just upset everyone around them. I heard somewhere that BPD is considered the hardest illness to live with and has the highest suicide rate, I can believe that if my theory is correct cause it sounds like such a nightmarish way to live. No wonder they end up self isolating from the world.

Trying to force people to accommodate your illness is a common mistake the mentally ill make, it always stems from a desire to not get help. Rather than get therapy and be a better person, the world should just change to where breaking down in public is normal or whatever.

There is the refusal to accept reality because they don’t believe it is reality, distrust is a massive symptom of BPD.

Yeah I was expecting it, the topic of child abuse is maybe a bit too nuanced for some farmers to tackle. Is it really oversharing just to say that I am negatively impacted by it though?

I genuinely don’t think so. I think it’s less so over sharing and some farmers just get viscerally angry when they see people processing trauma, so they use “over sharing” as an excuse when really what they mean is “Shut the fuck up, this is gay and it makes me angry”. I’d be happy to talk (and over share ) more in DMs if you want, just so we can avoid that reaction

 

[Yugica]

A disorder like Borderline is 100% rooted in some form of trauma, at least the ones I've met weren't born with their brains broken

A relative of mine, who had never been traumatized prior(but was traumatized later on), was a dead ringer for BPD since she was a very young girl. She always had huge fears of abandonment and I was their favorite person for quite a long time until I wasn't and then I was their most hated person. Even some of the earliest stories with her revolve around identity issues(like as a kid she insisted that she was a boy to be more like me, or so everyone thought). Even her mother was exactly like her as a kid by her own admission, which again suggests a strong genetic component.

For BPD I think the abandonment issues leads them to be far more prone to being abused, so I don't think just looking at people with BPD and seeing how many have been abused is a good way to conclude that. I've had the misfortune of knowing too many BPD women throughout my life and a lot of them gravitate towards shitty, awful guys despite everyone else in their life telling them that so-and-so is bad news. I figure part of it is driven by a very hybristophilic idea that the asshole who hurts them understands their feeling of abandonment and another part is driven by abusive men being very willing to toy with their abandonment issues to control them.

I think there must be a strong genetic component to some people, but obviously not all. Even with something like autism or schizophrenia, there are genetic components that have been found but also some strong environmental correlates. Like with Schizophrenia your likelihood for developing it is much higher if you grew up in a city.

 

[Lingering butter taste]

A relative of mine, who had never been traumatized prior(but was traumatized later on), was a dead ringer for BPD since she was a very young girl. She always had huge fears of abandonment and I was their favorite person for quite a long time until I wasn't and then I was their most hated person.

If self diagnosing is cringe then armchair diagnosing is just as cringe.

We, as lay people, can’t just assume some people have a disorder and then we decide how it works off of that. It simply doesn't work that way.

 

[Yugica]

If self diagnosing is cringe then armchair diagnosing is just as cringe.

She was diagnosed with BPD later, I'm saying her symptoms predate any trauma.

 

[Lingering butter taste]

She was diagnosed with BPD later, I'm saying her symptoms predate any trauma.

To be fair, no one’s more unaware of a relative’s trauma than other relatives. I was convinced that my siblings had no trauma as children till I asked them about it, then I get told the most vile shit. They asked me about it, they get told the most vile shit. Both of us had no clue.

In my experience, “I’m a relative and they never experienced trauma as a kid” more so means “I’m a relative and I never noticed they experienced trauma as a kid”

 

[Yugica]

To be fair, no one’s more unaware of a relative’s trauma than other relatives. I was convinced that my siblings had no trauma as children till I asked them about it, then I get told the most vile shit. They asked me about it, they get told the most vile shit. Both of us had no clue.

I can understand the apprehension, but for a very close relative it's hard to miss anything bad happening to them if you're always around them. Again, I still talk to them and know them and they've talked about traumatic things happening in their life later on, but not in their early life.

Spoiler: Some powerleveling

I'm talking about my younger sister and mother. When I say she had me as her favorite person, I mean that she was so obsessive for me that she never left my side if she could help it. I even would have to give her a hug and a kiss on the forehead to get her to go to class after walking her there and the one time I didn't she tackled me to the ground over it. Her childhood was not traumatic, in fact she was absolutely pampered in comparison to me. The first time anything really traumatic happened to her was in her teen years and well after she had been diagnosed.

The only one out of the two who hasn't been diagnosed with BPD would be my mom, who by her own admission claimed that she was an even worse version of my sister(in terms of her behavior) growing up. If she wasn't a boomer and was born in more modern times then I have no doubts she would've been diagnosed too if she's telling the truth(which to be fair she probably is since my late grandpa(her dad) corroborated that.).

 

[Lingering butter taste]

I can understand the apprehension, but for a very close relative it's hard to miss anything bad happening to them if you're always around them. Again, I still talk to them and know them and they've talked about traumatic things happening in their life later on, but not in their early life.

Spoiler: Some powerleveling

I'm talking about my younger sister and mother. When I say she had me as her favorite person, I mean that she was so obsessive for me that she never left my side if she could help it. I even would have to give her a hug and a kiss on the forehead to get her to go to class after walking her there and the one time I didn't she tackled me to the ground over it. Her childhood was not traumatic, in fact she was absolutely pampered in comparison to me. The first time anything really traumatic happened to her was in her teen years and well after she had been diagnosed.

The only one out of the two who hasn't been diagnosed with BPD would be my mom, who by her own admission claimed that she was an even worse version of my sister(in terms of her behavior) growing up. If she wasn't a boomer and was born in more modern times then I have no doubts she would've been diagnosed too if she's telling the truth(which to be fair she probably is since my late grandpa(her dad) corroborated that.).

I also understand your view, I’m just saying from my experience, you can miss these things even if you’re as close as siblings. I’m not trying to invalidate your experience at all, I hope it dosent come across like that, and I respect you for how civil you have been.

If it helps, I’ve heard that BPD can be somewhat “caught on”. It’s not actually having BPD, it’s called “BPD traits”. Maybe as a child, your relative just had traits till she got legit BPD. Because from what I’ve heard, it’s impossible to have it before 13

 

[Yugica]

If it helps, I’ve heard that BPD can be somewhat “caught on”. It’s not actually having BPD, it’s called “BPD traits”. Maybe as a child, your relative just had traits till she got legit BPD. Because from what I’ve heard, it’s impossible to have it before 13

I think just having some of the traits is going to make you more susceptible to the kind of trauma that can worsen your condition. So we kind of agree in that sense as I understand it, right? I did mention before the fears of abandonment being a vulnerability for them with abusers. Predatory people always love to use someone's fear, after all.

I do think people can develop the whole suite of traits without having been traumatized, even if I take out my anecdotal example from before. If all traits in a person are some combination of genetics and environment, nature and nurture, then there's always going to be the fringe ends of the bell curve who're over-represented for genetics or environment. I'd argue that the nature side is fairly heavy, given that there's a fairly high heritability for BPD(I've seen a number of around 50% before).

Also there's no worries over your views of my experiences or not, being skeptical of people online is a given.

 

[Lingering butter taste]

I think just having some of the traits is going to make you more susceptible to the kind of trauma that can worsen your condition. So we kind of agree in that sense as I understand it, right? I did mention before the fears of abandonment being a vulnerability for them with abusers. Predatory people always love to use someone's fear, after all.

Oh yes, I absolutely agree. BPD absolutely leaves you open to abuse, and you’re more likely to accept it too. From what I’ve seen, most people who have abuse/rape fetishes have BPD.

I also have to say I really really respect you for loving your relative despite the clear issues she has

 

[VargReallyDidNothingWrong]

“Heh. Ya, this ain’t really acceptable here, no one’s gonna respond”
“Holy shit people responded!”

Not people, a bunch of oversharing newfags just like you.

 

[PetiteFeet]

I think there must be a strong genetic component to some people, but obviously not all. Even with something like autism or schizophrenia, there are genetic components that have been found but also some strong environmental correlates. Like with Schizophrenia your likelihood for developing it is much higher if you grew up in a city.

Yeah, definitely. The key difference between a sensitive but functional person and someone with a mental illness, is the former likely has coping strategies and are otherwise "high functioning".
Mental fragility becomes an issue when natural reaction strategies become out of control. We are all hardwired to have fear reactions, it's a normal and healthy way for our brains, but we call it an anxiety disorder or a panic attack when you have the fear response in situations it isn't needed.

I hadn't heard that schizophrenia has ties to growing up in a city, however. What do you base that on? I'd like to read it, if possible.

 

[Yugica]

What do you base that on? I'd like to read it, if possible.

I mostly remember hearing about it in a paper that was going over an association between pollution and mental illness(didn't bookmark it sadly), but I do have this one meta-analysis going over urbanicity(the term they use for describing how much their surroundings are like a city) and schizophrenia. To quote from the abstract:

The risk for schizophrenia at the most urban environment was estimated to be 2.37 times higher than in the most rural environment. The same effect was found when studies measuring the risk for nonaffective psychosis were included.

Some other things that I can remember(although its been a while since I was researching stuff on schizophrenia) was that psychosis was associated with various vitamin and mineral deficiencies at the time of the incident. I'm pretty sure the deficiencies included at least B vitamins, zinc and vitamin D. Which all makes sense as those vitamins and zinc are very important for brain function.