Russell Greer vs. Viatron Corporation, A-26-937678-C

Debbie Macomber said:
Is there any chance arbitration could "fail" and end up back in court like Greer V Moon, or does the stipulation mean it MUST be concluded in arbitration now?
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None whatsoever. There is no rule US Courts enforce more zealously than "things kicked to arbitration are not our problem anymore."
 
Isn't it likely they decide Russ was owed the $20k because that was a done deal before Russ demanded more? A judge could probably reason that Viatron did offer and Russ accepted the 20k.

Or have the arguments just assumed that figure for so long I've forgotten Russ never accepted it since he demanded more.
 
DiabeticSydePhil said:
Isn't it likely they decide Russ was owed the $20k because that was a done deal before Russ demanded more? A judge could probably reason that Viatron did offer and Russ accepted the 20k.

Or have the arguments just assumed that figure for so long I've forgotten Russ never accepted it since he demanded more.
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The key part is that Russ, in his own words, immediately sent a counteroffer. That nullifies the initial offer
 
All this talk about offer and counteroffer and whether a contract was formed, but it's all emails.

Even if they did come to a "meeting of the minds" on $20,000 or $200,000, wouldn't they still need to actually have lawyers write and sign a contract saying "This money settles any claim" in legalese a dozen different ways with provisions and definitions for every little thing, and then have Russell and Erwin sign and date it in 20 places and have it notarized for it to be binding?

Russell's whole argument is that saying you agree to something in an email is already an ironclad contract you can no longer negotiate or change your mind about, before anything is signed
 
AnOminous said:
Tbh much of what Viatroon has done in this lolsuit is equally dumb as what Russhole himself has done.
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I couldn't say it any better. I normally wouldn't post making the same point since you already said this but bearing this point in mind. I wanted to connect it to a couple posts.
obsdj said:
I won't be surprised if they end up paying Greer to go away, regardless of whatever victories Hardin might have promised them. Probably not as much as the original "$20k plus keep working for us until we can find a legit way to fire you for cause" offer, but still more than zero dollars.
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We are sad about this possibility, but to be fair if it does happen Viatron deserves it for not being able to handle this situation.
obsdj said:
Yeah but see upthread re: Stupid company run by stupid people. Plus Greer already sued them and put a shitload of embarrassing material into the public docket for all the world to see. Viatron will be very lucky if other disgruntled ex-employees don't try to shake them down after seeing that shit.
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To also be fair to Viatron they probably never dealt with this kind of thing before. A smart and highly engaged person who thought ahead might realize the need and prevent stuff like this from happening. But most people wouldn't and could fall into this trap.

It's perfectly normal to be retarded and unskilled in a certain area of business and get your assed kick and then learn to do it better. People aren't skilled at every aspect of managing a business when they immediately start a job.
Useful_Mistake said:
The key part is that Russ, in his own words, immediately sent a counteroffer. That nullifies the initial offer
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This is true but, we don't know if arbitrators will see this. This arbitration is a test of how much the legal system likes Greer. He was so far out on something like the eviction cases that there was no way he could win. But the weird fuckery with the offer and counter-offer makes it closer.
 
Debbie Macomber said:
All this talk about offer and counteroffer and whether a contract was formed, but it's all emails.
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An email (or a phone call, or a handshake) can absolutely be a binding contact, so long as there is an offer made and accepted. It's typically followed up with a written agreement to clarify the terms (with language such as "this agreement supersedes all previous understandings between the parties"), but that's not required.

Making a counter-offer (as in Russ's case) is absolutely not acceptance of an offer, so that's what makes it not a valid contract.
 
Debbie Macomber said:
Even if they did come to a "meeting of the minds" on $20,000 or $200,000, wouldn't they still need to actually have lawyers write and sign a contract saying "This money settles any claim" in legalese a dozen different ways with provisions and definitions for every little thing, and then have Russell and Erwin sign and date it in 20 places and have it notarized for it to be binding?
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Not necessarily, but all the notarizing signing dating and legalese on paper make proving the existence of that contract and the assent of all parties involved much easier and thus enforcing it much easier, which is why that's how things are typically done.

A meeting of the minds could be reached in email if there was enough evidence to prove that and the agreement of all parties, that just hasn't happened here.
 
Useful_Mistake said:
The key part is that Russ, in his own words, immediately sent a counteroffer. That nullifies the initial offer
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Amplified by the fact that Russ started shaking them down with threats of lawsuits and Government Actions over claims that still seem questionable at best.
Napoleon III said:
To also be fair to Viatron they probably never dealt with this kind of thing before. A smart and highly engaged person who thought ahead might realize the need and prevent stuff like this from happening. But most people wouldn't and could fall into this trap.
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Companies that think ahead know to "NEVER HIRE THE HANDICAPPED"

It's actually really sad how this became a thing because of the ADA.
 
Debbie Macomber said:
Even if they did come to a "meeting of the minds" on $20,000 or $200,000, wouldn't they still need to actually have lawyers write and sign a contract saying "This money settles any claim" in legalese a dozen different ways with provisions and definitions for every little thing, and then have Russell and Erwin sign and date it in 20 places and have it notarized for it to be binding?
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There's a massive body of precedent and rules on contract acceptance, that we've mostly gone through in this thread already. Short version is no, you don't need a signed notarized piece of paper/PDF, you can form a valid contract verbally. However you have to meet certain agreement and verbal/written formalization thresholds, and nothing Greer/Viatron did rises to that level.

HarblMcDavid said:
Not necessarily, but all the notarizing signing dating and legalese on paper make proving the existence of that contract and the assent of all parties involved much easier and thus enforcing it much easier, which is why that's how things are typically done.
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Yes, and in the absence of a signed document, the usual indicator that a contract has been formed is when both parties start acting as if one was formed, and they are now following it. Greer tried arguing that this happened; his proof is that ViaTron submitted something to insurance, and that Greer started fantasizing about everything he'd buy with the money. This fails the test for many reasons that will give ViaTron an easy SJ or arb win.

ViaTron correctly pointed out that Greer relying on his imagined payout doesn't count as a meeting of the minds or contract formation. He can't form and act on a contract unilaterally, which is clearly what he did. Hardin could argue that unilateral contract creation and formation is a hallmark of Greer lolsuits, going back to Swift and nearly every hooker-related one since. It's one of his most reliable traits.
 
RodgerDodger said:
Companies that think ahead know to "NEVER HIRE THE HANDICAPPED"

It's actually really sad how this became a thing because of the ADA.
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The unfortunate part is how this makes it harder for the handicapped people who are both able and willing to work - and do a good job - in some capacity if they were given the opportunity and a fair shake. All it takes is a single RG type person to ruin it for someone else.
 
Napoleon III said:
To also be fair to Viatron they probably never dealt with this kind of thing before. A smart and highly engaged person who thought ahead might realize the need and prevent stuff like this from happening. But most people wouldn't and could fall into this trap.

It's perfectly normal to be retarded and unskilled in a certain area of business and get your assed kick and then learn to do it better. People aren't skilled at every aspect of managing a business when they immediately start a job.
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I remain baffled at the extension of such grace and understanding to the poor helpless retarded unskilled President of an allegedly Big Serious Company With An HR Department FFS. Where does it come from?
 
I haven't been fully following this, but now that it's in arbitration is Hardin no longer involved?
Basically, did buddy boy Greer get litigationmogged so hard by the Hardship showing up he decided to arbitrate rather than face him? It seems to be an unusual tactic for Greer: pass up a chance to plight about how this unprofessional lawyer is following you around in the courts to further the entertainment of a forum?
 
obsdj said:
I remain baffled at the extension of such grace and understanding to the poor helpless retarded unskilled President of an allegedly Big Serious Company With An HR Department FFS. Where does it come from?
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Have you never heard the phrase "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"?
 
Kiwi Lime Pie said:
IANAL either, but I suspect courts generally avoid intervening in arbitration cases unless there's something so horribly wrong with the process that needs to be addressed.
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Except they don't even intervene then. I specifically cited a case where a family got basically slaughtered by being run over by an Uber driver and the fact they had once ordered Uber meant they could NEVER sue Uber EVER, for any reason at all.

They could literally send a hitman to your house to shoot you in the face and you couldn't do dick.
 
Sneedfully and Peacefully said:
I haven't been fully following this, but now that it's in arbitration is Hardin no longer involved?
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Hardin is presumably representing ViaTron's interests during arbitration. Just like Greer is representing his own.

Sneedfully and Peacefully said:
Basically, did buddy boy Greer get litigationmogged so hard by the Hardship showing up he decided to arbitrate rather than face him?
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That's possible, but I suspect ViaTron got upset over the MtD failing and wants a quick exit. Just like Geoff was willing to throw $20 grand at a retard for a quick exit. Greer always wants to "settle" to get what he wants, he doesn't want the full lawsuit process (especially after GvM's discovery fiasco). Plus he's currently evicted, desperate for money, and he thinks the $20k "acceptance" email is a slam dunk.

I think both sides were happy to go to arbitration, for different reasons.
 
Harvey Danger said:
Plus he's currently evicted, desperate for money, and he thinks the $20k "acceptance" email is a slam dunk.
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When you put it like that, I hope that they don't go back to the $20k as a fair arbitration since they basically were already settled on that before greer tried to extort them. Even if it's far more likely he'd put aside the bulk of that for hookers, I don't think he's so retarded as to not use it to re-establish himself in an apartment somewhere.

This is not because I particularly want him to suffer, but because dealing with homelessness puts him in a difficult position to give as much of a shit about GvM, even if the judges are protecting him. The less chances he has to breathe and file bullshit the better.
 
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