Warhammer 40k

p1138 said:
Yes and no. You also need to consider than the imperium uses muster worlds where regiments from all sorts of planets... muster(that's kind of self explanatory) as well as the imperial navy who has to cart the guardsmen around. No, I'm not going to count imperial military forces as being the equivalent of random civilians. The reason for this would be that generally xenos knowledge other than "alien bad" barely exists, however the Infantryman's Uplifting Primer definitely covers how to fight xenos and every guardsman has one(or should). On top of the navy, even civilian transport services(bulk freight haulers and such) have been used to move guardsmen around, and of course aid the Munitorum in logistics(food and such, not actual arms) when necessary, which again exposes more people to information. And this is all of course ignoring the mechanicus who are kind of isolated by way of not speaking gothic regularly, but also have members definitely aware that daemons and other warp fuckery exists.
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Muster worlds dont mean widespread information exposure. They are definitely training people to specifically combat demons and traitors, but that doesnt mean the broader public or military has an understanding of what is actually happening. Once your drafted into military service, there is no going back to your old life.

Militarized environments are going to have tight information control by just the nature of it. Troops will be moving off world and into the meat grinder, they wont be moving off world and communicating with civilians who arent already in the know. All the knowledge that is gained will also be lost in this sort of industrialized structure for never ending war.

Crews moving troops dont need to be informed of why they are moving troops, we have no reason not to believe that information isnt strict and compartmentalized given the imperiums fear of knowldge. Even if a regular crew men hears of a Guardsmen's experience it doesnt necessarily mean he will believe it and even if he does it doesnt translate into wide spread civilian/troop awareness.

The uplifting primer is propaganda first, training manual second. It often contradicts reality or simplifies things. It's filtered of infromation. It's not distributed freely. What it is and what it has to offer is highly controlled.

Have you considered why losing your primer is punished so harshly?

Even factions like the Mechanicus aren't really walking amongst the general populous. They too are isolated in their own way, they actually try and prevent the spread of knowledge. What they do know is also fragmented and doctrinal.

p1138 said:
The modern Cadians would have only been fighting for a few thousand due to that purge of the original population bit(it's where Lorgar killed some custodes and maybe made some gal vorbak?)
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The first black crusade was in the 32nd millennia, attacking worlds near the Cadian Gate. The imperium followed this up with fortifying Cadia and turning it into a choke.

p1138 said:
Sure, if you want to pull the unreliable narrator bit with Krieg, except that's never even hinted at as being propaganda
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No, i'm just saying that's how propaganda works. There doesn't need to be any truth in the matter. You don't need to publicize sensitive information like the men and women of Cadia hard at work fighting the chaos gods. If anything you do the total opposite with your propaganda. You can just fabricate things for people to rally behind.



Did you know Kim Jon-il can talk to dolphins?

p1138 said:
Sure, but at this point most of this stuff if 15-20 years old but even then you've still got multiple loyalist space marine chapters basically in a cold war with the inquisition,
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The idea that the average citizen of the imperium isn't a mal nourished, illiterate, and ignorant slave to the powers that be is a modern interpretation of things.

our modern sensibilities/humor/understandings have been poking through into imagination land pretty hard.
 
creaturestorm said:
While they might see a Cadian Gaurdsmen on a poster I doubt they know who they really are and what they are actually fighting. I don't think they have the same legendary status.
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I can certainly see where you're coming from; after all, the Imperium certainly does like to suppress inconvenient information. They do, however, actively push propaganda of these regiments and uphold them as heroes, here's a couple passages from Fall of Cadia:
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So we know that they do things like put Imperial heroes on posters and in packs of smokes that would be distributed to soldiers, and other passages have referenced things like trading cards and pict-vids being shown to recruits (can't find which book they're from, sadly). They have alot of propaganda departments dedicated to it's production, especially within these units that the Imperium upholds as ideal fighters.
creaturestorm said:
The uplifting primer is propaganda first, training manual second. It often contradicts reality or simplifies things.
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What, you're saying an average guardsman can't kill an ork with a simple stab of a bayonet? Heretic.
 
An Old Salt said:
So with 11th around the corner I was curious if y'all have been painting anything specifically to get ready for the new rules?
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For some reason the 40k bug has bitten me again. I found and catalogued my old SM "army" from storage. (10 painted Intercessors 5 painted H*llblasters, 2 painted Lts and two base coated Captains. Also 5 base coated Heavy Intercessors but 3 are broken)


I'm hoping to exorcise the bug by assembling and painting the AoS Seraphon Spearhead I bought 2 years ago. If it's not gone by then I'll fix the Heavy Intercessors and paint them, then my Captains. If it's STILL not gone by then, well then maybe James Workshop will have won and I'll buy a Dreadnaught of some variety. (But this morning I was heavily tempted to buy the Eye of Terror Imperial Knights box set, so they may win before that)
 
Dollar Store Crack Whore said:
I can certainly see where you're coming from; after all, the Imperium certainly does like to suppress inconvenient information. They do, however, actively push propaganda of these regiments and uphold them as heroes, here's a couple passages from Fall of Cadia:
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This sounds like Cadian Propaganda for Cadians and not Propaganda for imperial worlds in entirely different systems.

I don't read a lot of black library because I think it's mostly contradictions when it's not busy trying to thrust the authors OC female character into the lime light.

Seriously you sit down to read about night lords or piloting a titan and the next thing you know you're seeing the 40k world through the eyes of a female outsider.

Dollar Store Crack Whore said:
What, you're saying an average guardsman can't kill an ork with a simple stab of a bayonet? Heretic.
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lol yes.
 
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creaturestorm said:
I think them being poster boys in universe is more of a popular fan made invention that's recently been passed into lore by black library novels. "other space marines look to the ultramarines as their ideal" type of shit.
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Nah they are in-universe poster boys, same as the ultrasmurfs. To the point that third rate guard/pdf regiments often try to emulate Cadians.

And same as the ultrasmurfs they're boring as shit compared to the other regiments. Bonus points is that for a regiment brought up specifically to defend one planet they are characterized as an offensive force in the fluff, for some reason.
 
creaturestorm said:
I don't read a lot of black library because I think it's mostly contradictions when it's not busy trying to thrust the authors OC female character into the lime light.
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That's fair; seems like every BL author loves their fucking do-it-all GI Janes. I can at least accept heightened physicality in things about Sisters of Battle or even Catachan women since they're jacked out of their minds on roids, but damn near every other book has a chick in it that seems effortlessly competent. Or Mike Brooks randomly dropping a few pages to touch on how some random hobo is non-binary and how that totally applies to people struggling to survive in an undercity, chud. You gotta sift through the rough to find the diamonds.
 
New community update for SM2. Still no release date. Only thing interesting I saw was that they're gonna open up class cosmetics so shit like capes and halos can be worn on other classes. Expect sniper wearing an iron Halo, cause that's "lore breaking" somehow. They also said this in addition:

"New Ordeals, the “Trials of Resolve” will be implemented. These Ordeals are particularly hard to achieve and are meant to test your skills on the long run. Each Ordeal will have up to 3 difficulty tiers. Some of them will require you to complete an Operation a hundred times, or slaying three Majoris or higher enemies with a single headshot on Absolute difficulty for instance.
Good luck! 😉 "

These fucking niggers have no idea what constitutes a challenge. It's literally all just time wasting bullshit to bloat numbers. The fact they're gonna lock more cosmetics behind this kinda shit is wild to me. I'd unironically rather just pay money to unlock shit immediately for dress up than grind another 1000 hours just to wear a fancy cape on tactical. Especially when they insist on trying to force you into their awful lethal+ difficulties or hard strats.
 
creaturestorm said:
The first black crusade was in the 32nd millennia, attacking worlds near the Cadian Gate. The imperium followed this up with fortifying Cadia and turning it into a choke.
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jfc...

I was talking about the first 13th black crusade from 2003. The big narrative event that GW ran where players submitted results from games. That GW basically did nothing with but shrug and say "I guess chaos won" for 15 years or so because they didn't know wtf to do with it, and then decided eventually it meant Cadia getting blown up, the cicatrix maledictum, etc.

creaturestorm said:
Did you know Kim Jon-il can talk to dolphins?
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There is a difference between "kim jong-il can talk to dolphins" and "long ago when kim jong-il's dick fell off while he was swimming with the ocean, he immediately realized he could now speak with dolphins".

Anyway. You keep wanting to compare 40k to modern military service, don't seem to have actually read any of this stuff. This is a waste of time. I'm talking about crap that's actually in Black Library novels, you're making assumptions based on who knows what.
 
I wouldnt be surprised if over the next 5-10 years GW do some fuckery with a crusade, Cawl working with some pylons and another battle for Cadia resulting in an Imperium win and the Cadian Gate being restored.

I can kinda see them changing how the stalemate works. Instead of trading pawns (backwater planets) or Phyrric victories, they trade knights or bishops (major planets). The stalemate continues but every so often it sways one way then the other. Hell half the Imperium is in the dark, they gotta restore that at some point right?
 
creaturestorm said:
View attachment 8937575

I think you are confused.
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Yeah, and? So you were just confirming what I said then? You said the cadians had been fighting for 10,000 years, I said it was a few thousand implying it was less than 10,000 which is absolutely the case.

Mr Clark said:
I wouldnt be surprised if over the next 5-10 years GW do some fuckery with a crusade, Cawl working with some pylons and another battle for Cadia resulting in an Imperium win and the Cadian Gate being restored.

I can kinda see them changing how the stalemate works. Instead of trading pawns (backwater planets) or Phyrric victories, they trade knights or bishops (major planets). The stalemate continues but every so often it sways one way then the other. Hell half the Imperium is in the dark, they gotta restore that at some point right?
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Probably. Although they don't actually need to restore it. Narratively the only thing they need to do is get some more reliable travel routes through the rift so they can keep sending stuff to go fight on the other side of it and that's probably what they'll end up doing with the pylons since cawl managed to close the pit of... whatever the hell it was(raukos I think?) in his latest book with a pylon but that's not guaranteed to be permanently shut.
 
Dollar Store Crack Whore said:
The Imperium definitely likes to push your Krieg/Cadia/Catachans as propaganda alot, which may explain why they're so regarded well (beyond the simplicity of having a few archetypal guard factions for tabletop) and are widely known within the Imperium. I don't necessarily think that it's because space marines aren't aware of the death worlders, rather it's more an issue of logistics and culture. Of course, in the lore, there are way more worlds that could be full of good potential than the big three.

Logistics aren't impossible, but they'd be taking a chunk of the best young men from these planets and putting them through a training process that would leave alot of them dead. That's alot of valuable resources from some of the best military worlds in the Imperium, with the additional risk/process of transporting them through the warp for training. With a chapter on their homeworld, SM chapters can instead recruit and train there directly, even if the pool of applicants isn't as apt, they can draw from effectively the whole world rather than a partial sum of bodies from another.
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Don't forget that a place like Catachan feeding a bunch of their kids to the Astartes might be enough to tip them over the edge into unsustainability as a result of how high the death rate is. The chances of a Catachan surviving the process might be higher than anyone else, but they're not making babies afterwards, that's for damn sure.
 
p1138 said:
Yeah, and? So you were just confirming what I said then? You said the cadians had been fighting for 10,000 years, I said it was a few thousand implying it was less than 10,000 which is absolutely the case.
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a few means 3 to 5.

32 - 41 = 9

You're nearly double to triple off from that, but alright.
 
creaturestorm said:
a few means 3 to 5.

32 - 41 = 9

You're nearly double to triple off from that, but alright.
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It also wasn't instantly fortified the moment the first black crusade ended, and needed to be built up to what it became. You want to talk lore? Fine, we can talk about lore. Stop injecting random bullshit about North Korea and whatever the fuck else that doesn't have anything to do with 40k into the discussion. Go actually read some shit instead of making assumptions about how the imperium works in your head.
 
Snekposter said:
Don't forget that a place like Catachan feeding a bunch of their kids to the Astartes might be enough to tip them over the edge into unsustainability as a result of how high the death rate is. The chances of a Catachan surviving the process might be higher than anyone else, but they're not making babies afterwards, that's for damn sure.
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The thing is that the IG has seemingly infinite numbers, if Cadia is an example to go with. But specialization is key, as mentioned here.
 
It is just so weird that the planet with 500 billion citizens (Armageddon) seemingly has fewer guardsmen around the galaxy than the planet that had 450 million before being destroyed, or the hellhole with 12 million.

Ultimately, it is because the famous regiments are the ones the writers care about; the same thing with Ultramarines being in every single front in the galaxy, they could use another regiment or chapter instead, but no one cares about them.
 
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